Hi, there is no judging going on here, we are merely discussing the various attitudes that are prevalent in modern Christianity.
Well, I didn't recall that as of yet, you have but gdemoss states I am spreading un-truth, a heretic and going to hell. Oh yes, he says it is his duty to judge despite the Bible saying judge ye not! But I see you in fact do the same as gdemoss and spread false accusations.
There is the right way where we have freedom in Christ within the confines of His laws, we have two extremes on either side. On the one hand we have legalism where many are attempting to be saved (eg the Galatians) by the works, or obedience to the law, and on the other hand we have what many call 'cheap grace' that claims one is saved unconditionally and the laws of God and obedience or disobedience to them has no bearing on ones ultimate destiny.
I am sure you are refering to those of us who beleive in OSAS. And, since you are, "there you go again"! You say your not judge but you make false accusations and stereotype. You just used words like "cheap grace" and "disobedience has no bearing on ones ultimate destiny".
If I have said it once, I have said a hundred times...that is un-true! Stop with the false accusations and categorizing....already!!! It is not becoming of a Christian!
Like I keep saying is> I have never seen anyone inside or outside of TJ say these things, please, you want to talk truth, go back a find where a person who beleives in OSAS has said the things you say above!
Great, I am glad to hear it. Then you agree with me that once saved ones obedience to God's laws or disobedience as the case may be can affect his eternal destiny?
From your posts I believe we are correct in assuming you are of the latter class. Once saved always saved, and sin has no effect on your salvation even if you fall right back into the world and have no regard to Christ at all.
There you go again!!! Where do you keep coming up with this!!! Yes I beleive in OSAS but, I NEVER, not ONCE, have said that sin does not matter, that I can sin with no regard to Christ....absurd, false and insulting coming from a person who is supposed to be a Christian....you are a Christian...right? You don't care to discuss truth but only what you want to hear. You and gdemoss remind me of some radical, when you can't answer or address an opposing view, you resort with false statements and slander.....honestly, is this what Jesus is teaching you?......hardly!!
Please don't misquote me. I did not say that you personally believe you sin without any regards to Christ, nor did I say that you believe sin doesn't matter. I shall repeat what I did say...read carefully:
From your posts I believe we are correct in assuming you are of the latter class. Once saved always saved, and sin has no effect on your salvation even if you fall right back into the world and have no regard to Christ at all.
This is the message I get from you anyway. Your excuse or reasoning however denies that possibility by claiming that if one draws back, he was never in the right place to begin with. The Galatians themselves are the counter to that argument.
Please give scripture to support this!
Gal. 5:1 ¶ Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you,
that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7 Ye
did run well; who did
hinder you
that ye should not obey the truth?
You on the other hand persist in denying the plain teaching of the scriptures that clearly inform us that we are judged by our works, and our eternal destiny depends upon them.
Please provide scripture!
Re 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Re 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Re 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Re 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Re 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
Re 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Re 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Re 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Re 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Re 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
You refuse to recognise that Christians are not saved by their works, but once saved, their works are used as evidence in the judgement to ascertain whether they are saved or not. They are the only outward sign that there has been a change within. And the universe will see that God's judgements are true.
WHAT!!!! I refuse to recognize that Christians are not save by their works?.....LOL....that is exactly what I recognize....they are not saved by their works!!
Again you are misquoting me. Again, I shall repeat and ask that you read carefully:
You refuse to recognise that Christians are not saved by their works, but once saved, their works are used as evidence in the judgement to ascertain whether they are saved or not.
It is not just the first part that I am saying you don't recognise, it is the whole sentence. I know that you believe we are not saved by our works, and I agree with you,
but once saved, their works are used as evidence in the judgement to ascertain whether they are saved or not.
As to Romans 7, Paul is talking in past tense. He is speaking of his life before He was saved. That is why at the end he is able to ask the question woe is me...what can I do? Thank God for Jesus!!
What!!!!! show me proof of this being in past tense....another false statement to further your cause!
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual:
but I am carnal, sold under sin. ????
This is the converted Paul????
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not;
but what I hate, that do I. ????
This is the converted Paul????
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me;
but how to perform that which is good I find not. ????
This is the converted Paul????
19 For the good that I would I do not:
but the evil which I would not, that I do. ????
This is the converted Paul????
