Sonseeahray
Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2011
- Messages
- 32
Hi Gary,
That was a errant assumption. Since when do fig trees produce fruit out of season? Must be another explanation. Note that they never asked him what he was doing because they were so taken up with the rapidity in which the tree withered. They never did discover what he was doing because they had about 25 years to think about it before the synoptic Gospels were written. They corrected other assumptions as I will point out a couple of them.
Matthew 16:6-7 (NASB)
And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." [7] And they began to discuss among themselves, saying, "It is because we took no bread." And they began to discuss among themselves, saying, "It is because we took no bread." [8] But Jesus, aware of this, said, "You men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves that you have no bread? [9] "Do you not yet understand or remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets you took up? [10] "Or the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many large baskets you took up? [11] "How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." [12] Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Just another assumption – fortunately Jesus corrected their thinking. They took him literally, which is what I am calling “soulish.” He was speaking spiritually. Jesus' words always spoke directly to people's spirits.
Another...
John 2:19-22 (NASB)
Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." [20] The Jews therefore said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" [21] But He was speaking of the temple of His body. [22] When therefore He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture, and the word which Jesus had spoken.
Another assumption, which was not corrected until after the crucifixion.
Here is the greatest assumption of all and it would have destroyed their whole group had not Jesus reappeared to them after his resurrection and corrected their thinking.
Why did the Jews miss their visitation of the Messiah? Everybody knows it was because of their unrealistic expectations. They were looking for a Messiah who would perform great signs as proof of who he was. He would destroy their enemies – the Romans, raise the Jews up to world leadership, and world power. Israel would be the center of the whole world. The Jewish leadership would be elevated to a place of supreme preeminence. The wealth of nations would flow into it. Jesus did none of these things. The NT says that they killed him for envy and blasphemy. The official Jewish position to this very day is that Jesus was a sorcerer and misled Israel. How blind can you get?
Unfortunately, the disciples held this same view during their time with Jesus. However, they recognized him as the true Messiah and changed their Jewish unrealistic belief slightly. They still expected that Jesus was going to set up a literal earthly kingdom in due time. He told them plainly what would really happen, but the scripture says that they didn't believe him.
Then on Passover night he was arrested. They had been arguing among themselves previouly about who would have the greatest position in this coming literal kingdom. When the mob approached them on the Mount of Olives that night - their was a cohort of Roman solders and the Temple guard who came out to them with torches expecting to put down a “rebellion.”
John 18:3 (NASB)
Judas then, having received the Roman cohort[/SIZE], and officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, came there with lanterns and torches and weapons.
A cohort was 1/10<SUP>th</SUP> of a legion or 600 men. So there could have been as many as 700 in total – who knows? In any case the Disciples were outnumbered by about 60:1 If 60 men armed and skilled at warfare came after me having only a sword – I would run as fast as I could - in absolute terror.
As they approached and inquired of Jesus he said...
John 18:4-6 (NASB)
Jesus therefore, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth, and said to them, "Whom do you seek?" [5] They answered Him, "Jesus the Nazarene." He said to them, "I am He." And Judas also who was betraying Him, was standing with them. [6] When therefore He said to them, "I am He," they drew back, and fell to the ground.
This was the grand moment that they were all waiting for. Jesus was starting to exercise his power against his enemies when he knocked them all to the ground. This was the peak moment of their exciting expectations and dreams. Judas was a greedy, conniving, dishonest scoundrel. He planned to betray Jesus but never believed that it would happen. He was attempting to create a situation to cause a confrontation between Jesus and the ruling elite of Israel and the Roman government. This confrontation would then cause Jesus to take over by force and establish his new kingdom on earth. All of the Disciples swore allegiance to him the night before - to the death – when they were looking to become the prime minister in this new and exciting kingdom. Peter was so emboldened that when approached by Malchus he cut off his ear. Of course he was fully expecting Jesus to protect him and to seize power and set up this new literal kingdom. It was one of these "God and me" are a majority - except God was not in this he had planned the crucifixion before the foundation of the world.
John 18:10 (NASB)
Simon Peter therefore having a sword, drew it, and struck the high priest's slave, and cut off his right ear; and the slave's name was Malchus.
Then Jesus was arrested and taken to the authorities; and on the next morning He was convicted by the Sanhedrin - who were sitting in the wing of the Temple in the hall of hewn stone – the meeting place of the Grand Sanhedrin.
All their dreams of this literal kingdom were destroyed - totally. Judas's plan failed and he was so distraught that he went out and hung himself - realizing that he had in reality betrayed the Lord. Peter went with Jesus and so did John, but Peter denied that he even knew Jesus three times – just like Jesus said. Do you see how the courage disappeared when Jesus didn't exercise power over the the mob that night? The Disciples all scattered – so much for loyal unto death. Judas never repented of his evil and hung himself, but Peter did and was forgiven.
Just a week before was the triumphal entry of Jesus riding on the foal of a donkey. The crowds shouted “Hosanna” – which means “save us.” Save us from our sins? No - more like save us from the Romans and our tyrannical leadership. Zechariah says that 2/3 of the believers in Jesus would fall away after the crucifixion. The remaining third were brought through the fire.
Today of course this dream of the Jews and the Disciples continues on - except today it has been upgraded and is now called “The Millennium.” This dream will someday come to pass, but not until the Second coming and time and humanity are no more.
I said all of that just to show how wrong they were all the way up to the cross. Afterward they had most things finally figured out. This is what I am calling an “assumption.”
Good - you perceive that there is a problem with this passage mostly because the Disciples have inadvertantly and unintentionally misled us with their assumption. If you have a problem with the cursing of the fig tree then you are perceptive and are half way there. Now you just have to find an alternative interpretation that makes sense as the passage if taken as all true does not.
I have problems with Jewish tradition as well, but if it is confirmed by Jesus - as it is in this case – I believe it.
There was nothing wrong with the two trees – they were just ordinary trees. The only thing different was that God had spoken over them. The sin was not from eating from it - the sin was from doing what God said not to do. Had nothing to do with the tree per Se. Jesus cursed a descendant of that original tree in the garden to symbolically destroy forever the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so it could never bring about the fall of mankind ever again. This was a highly significant act – it wasn't just a fig lunch, which means nothing to me. .
That was a errant assumption. Since when do fig trees produce fruit out of season? Must be another explanation. Note that they never asked him what he was doing because they were so taken up with the rapidity in which the tree withered. They never did discover what he was doing because they had about 25 years to think about it before the synoptic Gospels were written. They corrected other assumptions as I will point out a couple of them.
Matthew 16:6-7 (NASB)
And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." [7] And they began to discuss among themselves, saying, "It is because we took no bread." And they began to discuss among themselves, saying, "It is because we took no bread." [8] But Jesus, aware of this, said, "You men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves that you have no bread? [9] "Do you not yet understand or remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets you took up? [10] "Or the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many large baskets you took up? [11] "How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." [12] Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Just another assumption – fortunately Jesus corrected their thinking. They took him literally, which is what I am calling “soulish.” He was speaking spiritually. Jesus' words always spoke directly to people's spirits.
Another...
John 2:19-22 (NASB)
Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." [20] The Jews therefore said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" [21] But He was speaking of the temple of His body. [22] When therefore He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture, and the word which Jesus had spoken.
Another assumption, which was not corrected until after the crucifixion.
Here is the greatest assumption of all and it would have destroyed their whole group had not Jesus reappeared to them after his resurrection and corrected their thinking.
Why did the Jews miss their visitation of the Messiah? Everybody knows it was because of their unrealistic expectations. They were looking for a Messiah who would perform great signs as proof of who he was. He would destroy their enemies – the Romans, raise the Jews up to world leadership, and world power. Israel would be the center of the whole world. The Jewish leadership would be elevated to a place of supreme preeminence. The wealth of nations would flow into it. Jesus did none of these things. The NT says that they killed him for envy and blasphemy. The official Jewish position to this very day is that Jesus was a sorcerer and misled Israel. How blind can you get?
Unfortunately, the disciples held this same view during their time with Jesus. However, they recognized him as the true Messiah and changed their Jewish unrealistic belief slightly. They still expected that Jesus was going to set up a literal earthly kingdom in due time. He told them plainly what would really happen, but the scripture says that they didn't believe him.
Then on Passover night he was arrested. They had been arguing among themselves previouly about who would have the greatest position in this coming literal kingdom. When the mob approached them on the Mount of Olives that night - their was a cohort of Roman solders and the Temple guard who came out to them with torches expecting to put down a “rebellion.”
John 18:3 (NASB)
Judas then, having received the Roman cohort[/SIZE], and officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, came there with lanterns and torches and weapons.
A cohort was 1/10<SUP>th</SUP> of a legion or 600 men. So there could have been as many as 700 in total – who knows? In any case the Disciples were outnumbered by about 60:1 If 60 men armed and skilled at warfare came after me having only a sword – I would run as fast as I could - in absolute terror.
As they approached and inquired of Jesus he said...
John 18:4-6 (NASB)
Jesus therefore, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth, and said to them, "Whom do you seek?" [5] They answered Him, "Jesus the Nazarene." He said to them, "I am He." And Judas also who was betraying Him, was standing with them. [6] When therefore He said to them, "I am He," they drew back, and fell to the ground.
This was the grand moment that they were all waiting for. Jesus was starting to exercise his power against his enemies when he knocked them all to the ground. This was the peak moment of their exciting expectations and dreams. Judas was a greedy, conniving, dishonest scoundrel. He planned to betray Jesus but never believed that it would happen. He was attempting to create a situation to cause a confrontation between Jesus and the ruling elite of Israel and the Roman government. This confrontation would then cause Jesus to take over by force and establish his new kingdom on earth. All of the Disciples swore allegiance to him the night before - to the death – when they were looking to become the prime minister in this new and exciting kingdom. Peter was so emboldened that when approached by Malchus he cut off his ear. Of course he was fully expecting Jesus to protect him and to seize power and set up this new literal kingdom. It was one of these "God and me" are a majority - except God was not in this he had planned the crucifixion before the foundation of the world.
John 18:10 (NASB)
Simon Peter therefore having a sword, drew it, and struck the high priest's slave, and cut off his right ear; and the slave's name was Malchus.
Then Jesus was arrested and taken to the authorities; and on the next morning He was convicted by the Sanhedrin - who were sitting in the wing of the Temple in the hall of hewn stone – the meeting place of the Grand Sanhedrin.
All their dreams of this literal kingdom were destroyed - totally. Judas's plan failed and he was so distraught that he went out and hung himself - realizing that he had in reality betrayed the Lord. Peter went with Jesus and so did John, but Peter denied that he even knew Jesus three times – just like Jesus said. Do you see how the courage disappeared when Jesus didn't exercise power over the the mob that night? The Disciples all scattered – so much for loyal unto death. Judas never repented of his evil and hung himself, but Peter did and was forgiven.
Just a week before was the triumphal entry of Jesus riding on the foal of a donkey. The crowds shouted “Hosanna” – which means “save us.” Save us from our sins? No - more like save us from the Romans and our tyrannical leadership. Zechariah says that 2/3 of the believers in Jesus would fall away after the crucifixion. The remaining third were brought through the fire.
Today of course this dream of the Jews and the Disciples continues on - except today it has been upgraded and is now called “The Millennium.” This dream will someday come to pass, but not until the Second coming and time and humanity are no more.
I said all of that just to show how wrong they were all the way up to the cross. Afterward they had most things finally figured out. This is what I am calling an “assumption.”
Good - you perceive that there is a problem with this passage mostly because the Disciples have inadvertantly and unintentionally misled us with their assumption. If you have a problem with the cursing of the fig tree then you are perceptive and are half way there. Now you just have to find an alternative interpretation that makes sense as the passage if taken as all true does not.
I have problems with Jewish tradition as well, but if it is confirmed by Jesus - as it is in this case – I believe it.
There was nothing wrong with the two trees – they were just ordinary trees. The only thing different was that God had spoken over them. The sin was not from eating from it - the sin was from doing what God said not to do. Had nothing to do with the tree per Se. Jesus cursed a descendant of that original tree in the garden to symbolically destroy forever the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so it could never bring about the fall of mankind ever again. This was a highly significant act – it wasn't just a fig lunch, which means nothing to me. .
