The Trinity...Biblical or NOT ???

[Eccl12v13]

This is what you said:
I have done my homework. You find it for yourself.

This is what you call walking in the Christian Spirit? This is what you call having the Spirit of God living in you? I suppose this is how you obey the Lord?

No. It is not I that says it. This is what God calls obeying Him;

""Study to shew THYSELFapproved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

"Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her."


These are the words of God one should obey.


And what does He also tell us to do? Let's read....

"...neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

If you do not feel finding and understanding God's words are worth spending the time to find the truth, why should I, or anyone, do it for you?

It would be different if you were a new member, or someone that was new to the word; but a senior member with over 1100 posts.....I would think you would WANT to search God's word to find how Jesus tells us just how He, the Father and the Holy Spirit are one!

I know I would. Which I why I searched God's word for myself.

When I asked the following questions;

If they are ONE, how can you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and not the Father or Son?

If they are ONE, how can the Father know the time and the hour, but NOT the Holy Spirit or the Son?

If they are ONE, how can the Son judge man WITHOUT the Father and the Holy Ghost?

I wanted to know for myself just how man's doctrine of the relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, could answer them...and it could not.

So I searched God's word until I found how Jesus tells us their relationship is and explains how they are one.

Jesus explanation makes sense.....man's does NOT!

.




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[RJ]

No. It is not I that says it. This is what God calls obeying Him;

""Study to shew THYSELFapproved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

"Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her."


These are the words of God one should obey.


And what does He also tell us to do? Let's read....

"...neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

If you do not feel finding and understanding God's words are worth spending the time to find the truth, why should I, or anyone, do it for you?

It would be different if you were a new member, or someone that was new to the word; but a senior member with over 1100 posts.....I would think you would WANT to search God's word to find how Jesus tells us just how He, the Father and the Holy Spirit are one!

I know I would. Which I why I searched God's word for myself.

When I asked the following questions;

If they are ONE, how can you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and not the Father or Son?

If they are ONE, how can the Father know the time and the hour, but NOT the Holy Spirit or the Son?

If they are ONE, how can the Son judge man WITHOUT the Father and the Holy Ghost?

I wanted to know for myself just how man's doctrine of the relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, could answer them...and it could not.

So I searched God's word until I found how Jesus tells us their relationship is and explains how they are one.

Jesus explanation makes sense.....man's does NOT!

.
.

All I asked of you was to (please) provide the scripture that supports your point and you tell me find it myself. Since it is your point, you are required by forum rules to provide scripture.

Here is forum rule # 7
Provide Scripture when making a biblical point

I ask again, please provide scripture to support your biblical point?

 

[Eccl12v13]

All I asked of you was to (please) provide the scripture that supports your point and you tell me find it myself. Since it is your point, you are required by forum rules to provide scripture.

Here is forum rule # 7
Provide Scripture when making a biblical point

I ask again, please provide scripture to support your biblical point?

And again I say, If you do not feel finding and understanding God's words are worth spending the time to find the truth, why should I, or anyone, do it for you?

God tells us, not me to, "Study to shew THYSELF approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Is it really that hard to search God's word to find how Jesus tells us the relationship is between Him, the Father and the Holy Spirit?

I have found searching God's word concerning a subject is far more rewarding than someone just telling me the answer.

This is what God wants us to do. As a matter of fact He instructs us to search the bible here and there to find His truths;

Isa.28
[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:


.

 

[Kit Carson]

Matthew 28 18 and 19. Jesus says he has total authority in heaven and on earth. He commissions the disciples to go and baptize all in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holly Spirit.

So that shows the trinity plain enough.

When one reads the bible over and over and studies on things one finds that they are one and the same. All parts of the whole. But all for different times. Such as we are in the age of Grace at the moment.

God the creator and the Father, Jesus the Son who was God in human form, and the Holy spirit that is also God who is our guide and also our conscious.

I suspect this is how he knows all all the time, as he is a part of all. No scripture for that, just my idea on it. Gods power and ability is so beyond our way of thinking we cannot use our way to limit it. I watched the birds soar this morning, caught a fish and let it go, enjoyed the lake, and the being that made all these things is beyond my thinking, so I do not even try to limit God to anything. He can do and will do as he wants.

As for being one and only one, do not think a scripture exists that says that, if so I have missed it. Went to sleep or something.

Kit

 

[spirit1st]

God is not a part of evil! He does not dwell in the devil or any flesh body on earth! He creates things out of Nothing !

He dwells in our Spirit man after giving us a clean ,sinless spirit! Forever More!That is How He never leaves us or forsakes Us!

He had to turn His back on Jesus Christs flesh body! Jesus spoke from His flesh mind when He spoke on the Cross! why has thou forsaken ME! It His flesh that took all our vile evil sins upon!

 

[RJ]

And again I say, If you do not feel finding and understanding God's words are worth spending the time to find the truth, why should I, or anyone, do it for you?

God tells us, not me to, "Study to shew THYSELF approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Is it really that hard to search God's word to find how Jesus tells us the relationship is between Him, the Father and the Holy Spirit?

I have found searching God's word concerning a subject is far more rewarding than someone just telling me the answer.

This is what God wants us to do. As a matter of fact He instructs us to search the bible here and there to find His truths;

Isa.28
[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:


.

So, you do not follow or care about follwing forum rules?!

 

[B-A-C]

Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.
Col 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

2Ti 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
2Ti 1:10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

Luk 10:17 The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
Luk 10:18 And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Joh 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
Joh 8:57 So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?"
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

Rev 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He *said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
Rev 21:6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.
Rev 21:7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."

Joh 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

Isa 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.

Isa 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Mat 1:21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
Mat 1:22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
Mat 1:23 "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."

Joh 14:6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Joh 14:7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."
Joh 14:8 Philip *said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
Joh 14:9 Jesus *said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Col 2:6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
Col 2:7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
Col 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Eph 1:23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Joh 20:25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."
Joh 20:26 After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus *came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be with you."
Joh 20:27 Then He *said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Joh 20:29 Jesus *said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

Phi 2:5 Have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
Phi 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
Phi 2:7 Instead, he emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant, by becoming like other humans, by having a human appearance.
Phi 2:8 He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, death on a cross.

 

[Eccl12v13]

God the creator and the Father, Jesus the Son who was God in human form, and the Holy spirit that is also God who is our guide and also our conscious.

Where in God's word does it state that the Holy spirit is God.

God's holy spirit acts with the authority of God at times, but the Holy Spirit is just that, an Holy Spirit, as opposed to an Evil Spirit. But ALL are angels that do the will of God, both holy and evil.

Heb.1
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

So we know for a fact that angels are SPIRITS! And there are only TWO types of spirits; 'holy spirits' and 'evil spirits' Again it states;

[14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

.

 

[Eccl12v13]

Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.
Col 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.


Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

2Ti 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
2Ti 1:10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

Luk 10:17 The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
Luk 10:18 And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Joh 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
Joh 8:57 So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?"
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

Rev 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He *said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
Rev 21:6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.
Rev 21:7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."

Joh 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

Isa 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.

Isa 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Mat 1:21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
Mat 1:22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
Mat 1:23 "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."

Joh 14:6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Joh 14:7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."
Joh 14:8 Philip *said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
Joh 14:9 Jesus *said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Col 2:6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
Col 2:7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
Col 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Eph 1:23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Joh 20:25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."
Joh 20:26 After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus *came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be with you."
Joh 20:27 Then He *said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Joh 20:29 Jesus *said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

Phi 2:5 Have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
Phi 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
Phi 2:7 Instead, he emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant, by becoming like other humans, by having a human appearance.
Phi 2:8 He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, death on a cross.

So we have one that became known as God the Father and the other that became known God the Son.

Clearly we have (2) beings in the Godhead....the Word that became flesh AND the one that was WITH the Word in the beginning. And we also know that it was the WORD that made everything that was made and NOT the one that is known as God the Father.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

.

 

[Eccl12v13]

And what about these spirits of God that nobody seems to ever mention?

Rev.4
[5] And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Just how do these Seven spirits of God fit into the doctrine of the trinity?

Shouldn't it be God the Father, God the Son and God's seven spirits?

.

 

[RJ]

So we have one that became known as God the Father and the other that became known God the Son.

Clearly we have (2) beings in the Godhead....the Word that became flesh AND the one that was WITH the Word in the beginning. And we also know that it was the WORD that made everything that was made and NOT the one that is known as God the Father.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

.

You are ubelievable and have no credit.

You will not follow forum rules.

You misrepresent scripture.

I will qoute your verse above:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
You deny that God and Jesus are one, yet you qoute a verse that proves that Jesus and God are the same....who can believe you?

1. Answer this question please: in the above verse who is the Word and what does it mean that the Word was God?

2. Please, what is your interpretation of this verse?:
John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

3. Please what is your interpretation of this verse?:
John 14:7
If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

 

[Eccl12v13]

I will qoute your verse above:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
You deny that God and Jesus are one, yet you qoute a verse that proves that Jesus and God are the same....who can believe you?

I NEVER denied that God and Jesus are one...they are one just how Jesus said they are one...not the way man's doctrine of the trinity say they are one.

1. Answer this question please: in the above verse who is the Word and what does it mean that the Word was God?

The word is the one that came to this earth in the flesh to shed His blood for all of mankind. And the one that did this was a God.

2. Please, what is your interpretation of this verse?:
John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

If I came in the name of my father, with all of his authority to handle some sort of business, it would be the same as if my father was conducting the business himself. Jesus came to do the will of His Father. Jesus did not say anything that the Father did not give Him to say. Thus....when you saw Jesus and accepted His message you are accepting the Father; they both, the (2) of them have the same message.

3. Please what is your interpretation of this verse?:
John 14:7
If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

The samething applies as for the last question.

Jesus is one with the Father because He brings ONLY what the Father tells Him. The Holy Spirit is one with Jesus and the Father because he brings ONLY what the Father gave the Son, which is the same as what the Son gives to the Holy Spirit....they are ALL one because they ALL have the same message. Three beings all bringing the same message; ALL (3) are ONE!

 

[RJ]

I NEVER denied that God and Jesus are one...they are one just how Jesus said they are one...not the way man's doctrine of the trinity say they are one.



The word is the one that came to this earth in the flesh to shed His blood for all of mankind. And the one that did this was a God.



If I came in the name of my father, with all of his authority to handle some sort of business, it would be the same as if my father was conducting the business himself. Jesus came to do the will of His Father. Jesus did not say anything that the Father did not give Him to say. Thus....when you saw Jesus and accepted His message you are accepting the Father; they both, the (2) of them have the same message.

What denomination Christian are you?

they are one just how Jesus said they are one...not the way man's doctrine of the trinity say they are one.

Would you please give scripture to support your above point?

 

[Stickz]

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. This was written after Jesus' ascension, pertaining to Jesus after his ascension.

I John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

If we are to understand the following verse as Jesus making it clear that he was the Father ...

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

... how should we read the following verses?

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

[Eccl12v13]

john 1:18 no man hath seen god at any time; the only begotten son, which is in the bosom of the father, he hath declared him. this was written after jesus' ascension, pertaining to jesus after his ascension.

i john 4:12 no man hath seen god at any time. If we love one another, god dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

if we are to understand the following verse as jesus making it clear that he was the father ...

john 10:30 i and my father are one.

... How should we read the following verses?

john 17:20 neither pray i for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

john 17:21 that they all may be one; as thou, father, art in me, and i in thee, that they also may be one in us: That the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:22 and the glory which thou gavest me i have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 17:23 i in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Finally!!!! Thank you!!


.

 

[Eccl12v13]

Now this is the ONLY explanation in ALL of God's word that explains how, not only the (3) are one, but how ALL that have the same message are one. And this comes from Jesus Himself. How anyone could come up with some other doctrine not found in God’s word is beyond me….but leave it up to man to come up with the ‘mystery’! Let’s read what Jesus tells us plain and clear;

Let's study the following scripture and let the bible, not a man made doctrine, explain it;

1John.5
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Just how are they all one? Let's read how Jesus Christ explains it to us;

John.17
[1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

We see from reading above Jesus (God) SHARING the Glory with the Father (God), even before the world. No mention of any other God; just God the Father AND God the Son. Let's continue;

[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

So the Son is ONE with the Father AND all those that the Father has given the Son are ALSO ONE! So we too are ONE with God! But how? Let's read more. Let's see at what point Jesus mentions God the Holy Ghost.

[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

So the ones that God sent to Jesus are separated, or sanctified, by His word, the Holy scriptures. Let's read who else is sanctified by the word and made ONE with God;

[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

So now we read that EVERYONE that believes in the word/scriptures and brings the SAME message are ONE, just as the Father and the Son are ONE!

Now let's read who brings the message of God;

John.14
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John.15
[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John.16
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

And where did the Comforter receive the truth that he heard? From Jesus. Let’s read it…

John 6
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

God the Father give His message to God the Son, who then speaks the SAME message to the Holy Spirit. Then the Holy Spirit speaks that SAME message to man, who then writes it down for all of mankind.

So the Comforter, also called the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, brings ONLY what was given to him. So if the Holy Spirit/Comforter/Holy Ghost/Spirit of Truth brings the same message, he too is ONE with everyone that does the same.

So now when we read the following, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." it is much clearer.

This scripture IS NOT saying all (3) form into one, or that the Father is from one dispensation and the Son and the Holy Spirit from another. Nor does it mention anything about them being of the same substance or any nonsense like that. Nor is it a "Mystery" of faith!

The scripture simply means that EACH one of them, ALL (3) separate entities, have and bring the SAME message.


That is why it is possible for you to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and not the Father or Son!

That is why the Father can know the time and the hour, but NOT the Holy Spirit or the Son!

That is why Son will judge and NOT the Father and the Holy Ghost!

Because they are all individual entities; God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit/angel of God, not A God!


Now this makes sense! There is no mystery……

.

 

[spirit1st]

God thinks it the Word speaks it and the Holy Ghost does it!
They are all Part of GODS being !

Joh_16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Joh_17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

 

[Stickz]

I find these verses curiously interesting when discussing the Trinity:

I Peter 3:22 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: These verses are talking about Jesus after his ascension.

I Peter 3:23 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. When were these things made subject unto him? By whom were they made subject unto him? Shouldn't they have already and always been subject unto him?

 

[RJ]

I find these verses curiously interesting when discussing the Trinity:

I Peter 3:22 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: These verses are talking about Jesus after his ascension.

I Peter 3:23 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. When were these things made subject unto him? By whom were they made subject unto him? Shouldn't they have already and always been subject unto him?

For your above verse from Pe 3:23. I know your "tag-team" mate Eccl 12vs13 has stated that there are no mysteries in the Bible, here is an answer to your question: Shouldn't they have already and always been subject unto him?:

Hebrews 2:7
You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone
Psalm 8:5
You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor.

Maybe Eccl understands all and there is no mysteries to him but there are to me.

A mystery to me doesn't mean hard to believe but hard to underatnd exactly how. Though our incarnate God was Jesus, the above verses in Hebrews and the Psalms shows me that Jesus , for a time, was very human. As the verses say: he was made a little lower than angels.

 

[Eccl12v13]

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone

Though our incarnate God was Jesus, the above verses in Hebrews and the Psalms shows me that Jesus , for a time, was very human. As the verses say: he was made a little lower than angels.

And what was Jesus before He was flesh? What was He before He was made lower than the angels? He was a GOD!

John 17
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Phil.2
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Jesus was God with God the Father before there was a world. The (2) were EQUAL! It was Jesus that was the God of the OT.

When the scriptures say He was made lower than the angels it means he was made into a flesh and blood being and was no longer a spirit being as the angels and God the Father are.

Now WHY was Jesus made into a flesh and blood being? Because as a God, as a spirit being, He could NOT die! Spirit beings do not DIE! How can mortal man kill a God, a spirit being? We cannot! And Jesus HAD to come not only to die, but to shed His blood? Why?

Heb.9
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

God's law says that the ONLY thing that can clear man of the curse of sin is the shedding of blood. It happened from the first sin of Adam until the shedding of the blood of Jesus.

So we have Jesus, a God, sharing the position with God the Father before there was a world, that came to this earth in the form of a flesh and blood body for the suffering of death. And what did He go BACK to being after His death?

GOD!

Now at what point did God the Son or God the Father EVER refer to any of the Holy Spirits/Holy Ghosts, as part of the Godhead? NEVER! Why? Because the Holy Spirit/Ghost is just that;

Heb.1
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

When reading God's word you will find many places where the angel of the Lord, God’s ’holy spirit’, ‘holy ghost‘, speaks and works as though he is the Lord. You will find throughout the scriptures many times when the Lord gives His "Holy Spirits" the same power and authority as Himself. There are even times when the Holy spirit is referred to as God, but they are yet “Holy Spirits”, Holy angels created to do God’s will.

Now THIS makes sense! There are (3) beings, God the Father, God the Son and God's Holy Spirits/Ghosts, ALL with the same message, meaning they ALL are on ONE accord!

And Jesus tells us not only are they one, but those that have and bring the same message are ALSO one with them;

John 17
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

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