The Rapture

[Brother Mike]

Impossible..

Lol... No Sister... not impossible...

Revelation is not in order...

Revelation has prophecy stuck in the middle on some chapters that have nothing to do with the end times... (Makes it confusing if we try to add them in)

Just study and know that your willingness to understand is the key to understand everything perfect... I have had to change what I believed many times because someone would bring a scripture up that did not line up with what I thought... and the Word has to be right..

God bless you..

Jesus is Lord.

 

[Zstrastwa]

I'm a male. xD It's ok before you say anything.

I know what you mean.
I know God sees my struggle and my PERSISTENCE to find His whole truth, I know it makes Him happy.

I think I accidentally made my gender Female. 0_o woops

 

[jari]

Bro Mike I see your point on how you think theres two events in mat 24 but please consider. Jesus is all along talking about coming of Son of man.

Why there would be two comings? shouldnt Jesus say "and the next time Son of man comes..." ?

Also its possible that people are grinding at the mill and on the field during tribulation. And caught of surprise when Lord comes.
No where in mat 24 it talks about Son of man coming twice, Jesus is all along talking about "coming of the Son of man".


the words "coming of the Son of man" appear in 5 verses in mat 24.
Which was answer to the disciples question: " Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

 

[spirit1st]

The first question we should ask is Why would God have a rapture?
The answers are this! We All have tribulation in life! but the Great tribulation is Gods Wrath upon a evil world , who has rejected His Free gift of eternal life! It not for His own family and household!

the next reason is the church is the most powerful force on earth! They have power over satan and all the dumb demons who follow him!

We have the Power of God with in us ! The holy Ghost!

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

the dead in Christ are with HIM NOW!

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.



1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
. 1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.


Sleeping in the LORD is just Not doing any works on the earth! We see in scriptures , those dead in the LORD are Up there talking with Him and others!

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

our spirit man does not sleep !

 

[Brother Mike]

More Rapture stuff.

Bro Mike I see your point on how you think theres two events in mat 24 but please consider. Jesus is all along talking about coming of Son of man.

Why there would be two comings? shouldnt Jesus say "and the next time Son of man comes...

The first event Jesus described is him Coming "IMMEDIATELY" after the tribulation. This is with power and glory to be seen by all, and the sun will go dark. We know exactly when this will happen. Right after the last Angelic Trumpet blast that ends the tribulation and opening of the sixth seal..

This event described first by Jesus is the end of the World.... because the angle's reap the harvest and then judgement if you pick up the rest in Revelation.

Also its possible that people are grinding at the mill and on the field during tribulation. And caught of surprise when Lord comes.
No where in mat 24 it talks about Son of man coming twice, Jesus is all along talking about "coming of the Son of man".

It's possible, but Jesus described this as the "Days of Noah" where one is given in marriage and people just continue about their usual business with nothing to suspect that things are wrong. In Peter many say where is the Lord's coming because things continue as usual..

During the tribulation, nobody will be saying things continue as usual. It will mass destruction on this planet. Not only from the wrath of God, but the armies of the Antichrist and false prophet.

One taken and one left means nobody suspected anything in this event, and not everyone is taken as in the first event, unlike the last event where the Angels gather both wheat and tares. Jesus also is talking to those that call him Lord, and not Israel which keep the Sabbath. These are two events.. one where everything is calm and continues as normal, and the other after everyone on the planet has gone through tribulation.

1Th 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the [return of the] Lord will come [as unexpectedly and suddenly] as a thief in the night.

The first Event Jesus described in Matt 24 is not unexpectedly or sudden. We know exactly when that occurs as Jesus told us it's right at the end of the tribulation, and we have a sign in the sun and moon at this point right at the time he comes... Paul here is speaking to the Church or body of Christ, and when he comes to get us before tribulation as we escape the wrath to come, it will be unexpected and sudden.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[jari]

Bro Mike, I think for people to continue to live as usual during tribulation shows how unrepentant they are. This is also found in revelations


Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Also the 1th chapter that you quoted says we are not caught by surprise:


1Th 5:4-6 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. (5) Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. (6) Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

 

[Brother Mike]

REv

Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

You don't think those Pains and sores might make them think that things in the world are going crazy...?


Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


It could be possible that nobody on Earth notices a big smoking pit that darkens the sun with strange creatures coming out to hurt people. You could be right, people are busy with their lives and something small like this could go unnoticed.

That is not even mentioning that rivers turn to blood and mass war is taking place...

You could be correct Jari...... with TV and video games, these things might not even be noticed...


As for believers we are told to always be ready and not be caught unaware of our Lords return... and certainly we shall see no signs as such that will occur during the tribulation..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Where do these fit in a "left behind "scenario.

Hab. 2:14 For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him,

Jeremiah 31:34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

Isaiah 11:9 They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Zechariah 14:9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so
that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.

Does he fill the earth with his glory after he destroys it?

Also it is not God's will that any should perish,sooo...will God's will be done???

 

[spirit1st]

Rev 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image.


Rev 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Rev 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.


Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise

Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.


Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.


Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.




Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

 

[jari]

Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

You don't think those Pains and sores might make them think that things in the world are going crazy...?


Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


It could be possible that nobody on Earth notices a big smoking pit that darkens the sun with strange creatures coming out to hurt people. You could be right, people are busy with their lives and something small like this could go unnoticed.

That is not even mentioning that rivers turn to blood and mass war is taking place...

You could be correct Jari...... with TV and video games, these things might not even be noticed...


As for believers we are told to always be ready and not be caught unaware of our Lords return... and certainly we shall see no signs as such that will occur during the tribulation..

Jesus Is Lord.

Honestly i dont know at which point Rev 16:1 comes about but it was just example of people unrepentanteness. No matter what plagues, their deeds continue.

In tribulation there seems to be War: Rev 6:4. Which is nothing to prevent people in general to be aware of coming of the Lord as wars , plagues, earhquakes are everyday even now.
And world having experienced ww2 shouldnt be too concerned if more wars come.


Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

It seems that after tribulation and rapture there will be something else for those left on earth. which the Revelations talks after chapter 8

Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!


Note: It talks in this verse about the saved: Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Seems like all christians are taken out of earth at that point.

Another Note: It does talk about God's people being on earth in verse Rev 9:4 . So I guess here is where the left behind ideas come from.

 

[Brother Mike]

God's Will....

Thiscrosshurts

Does he fill the earth with his glory after he destroys it?

Also it is not God's will that any should perish,sooo...will God's will be done???

It's never God's will that the wicked perish, and things get destroyed. It's why I am so against the election doctrine as it makes God out to be a respecter of persons and setting aside some to be destroyed. That is not our God.

There will be peace after the tribulation, and Peter is writing to the Jews who will be here during the tribulation. His ministry was to the Jews, and they also have instruction for this time as the last battle will occur in their homeland.

Christ and the Church is the Lord's main focus. This is the big push to get everyone on board. Satan would not stand a chance against us if we where left here during the tribulation, we are the only ones on this earth that keeps sin from destroying the whole planet. Our prayers, and favor with God reaches out to the lost while we are present..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Hab. 2:14 For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him,

Jeremiah 31:34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

Isaiah 11:9 They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Zechariah 14:9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so
that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.

Brother mike you say these verses are for the Jewish Christians who got left behind???
Peter would have been talking to Jewish Christians right?

I thought that in Christ there was neither male or female,Jew or Greek.

 

[spirit1st]

The election doctrine is FOR All who are willing to be Born of God!
It very simple ! We accept His gospel


1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


And Him as LORD and master

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Then we are one of the elect!
Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep who are not of this fold. I must also lead those, and they shall hear My voice, and there shall be one flock, one Shepherd.

We are grafted in as jews into the new Priest tribe!
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh;
Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.

As His eternal Kings and Priests!
Rev 1:6 and made us kings and priests to God and His Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Rev 5:10 And You made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign over the earth.

1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for possession, so that you might speak of the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
1Pe 2:5 you also as living stones are built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change made in the law also.
Heb 7:11 Therefore if perfection were by the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the Law), what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.

Rev 5:5 And one of the elders said to me, Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals of it.

We Follow our LORD 100%
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them,

Eph 5:30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones.

1Co 6:2 Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels, not to mention the things of this life?

Rev 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame and have sat down with My Father in His throne.

We too are born of Gods Seed. We are indeed His off springs .Made in the image of OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST!

It revealed in scripture! the new man , inner man, new creature, inward man , hidden man !
Gal 4:19 My children, for whom I again travail until Christ should be formed in you,

Eph 4:13 And this until we all come into the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son,

No beings on earth More Powerful than those Born of God [The Elect]

1Jn 4:4 You are of God, little children, and you have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

God puts HIS OWN Power within our spirit .That created All things that were ever Created! He has DECLARED US MORE THAN CONQUERORS!
We might not live it ? But it is within us !

Rom 8:37 But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us.

i have lived it a little bit! not as fully as i should have! I had lots and lots of miracles , about 6 years ago God told me to start telling what He did in my life time! I typed 14 pages of miracles and have had lots since! God is NO respecter of persons ,So it HAD NOTHING TO DO with me personally! i am NO more or less in any within HIS body!
We CAN Never start thinking we must be more. We only allow Him by faith and obeying , to allow Him to live though us!

He can work though a donkey or a rock !

That is why our great brother Paul who did know more than any of us , i think . Had to be humbled! I pray the LORD keeps me humble always!

We do all things as unto Him ! Always for His glory and honor! We must be careful we do not brag or appear as if we did something! It evil to try and take His Glory!