The Rapture

[Zstrastwa]

The Rapture

1 Corinthians 15:50-58 says-



1 Corinthians 15:50- Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.



Note: This means that our earthly bodies cannot enter Heaven, because they are not perfect; and we as sinners cannot enter Heaven, unless we are saved through Jesus.



1 Corinthians 15:51- Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed,



1 Corinthians 15:52- In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



Note: Now, these 2 verses are where many people who believe in the rapture will lead you to read. Keep reading...



1 Corinthians 15:53- For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.



Note: This refers back to verse 50.



1 Corinthians 15:54- So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.



Isaiah 25:8-9 tells us-



Isaiah 25:8- He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.



Isaiah 25:9- And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this IS our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this IS the Lord; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.



Note: Now, if you are still linking this to the rapture, think back to 1 Corinthians 15:52. The last trumpet. This is explained in Revelation. If anyone has told you that Revelation is not neccesary to read... then read the first words.



Revelation 1:3- BLESSED is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.



Note: There you go. That tells you. God doesn't want us to worry about reading this?... doesn't say so here, the bible says we're blessed if we read it. That's like telling someone who's cooking (and doesn't know how) to just wing it, and not to worry about the instructions. The bible is a guide to our life.



Revelation 8:7- The first angel (trumpet) sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.



Note: All these events happen while we are here. God is not going to give us an escape route for these events. We don't get to just leave, while everyone else goes through these things. But actually, this is where our faith will be tested at the most. Because there will be so many horrible things happening, will we turn our back on God, and believe what the devil promises? Or will we kneel, and surely see that He is God, and praise Him?



In 2 Thessalonians 2:2-12 it says-



2 Thessalonians 2:2- (That) Ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.



Note: This is our reasurance. This lets us know, that we have absolutley no reason at all to fear what is to come. Because if we seek God, and His truth, He will not leave us hanging.



2 Thessalonians 2:3- Let no man deceive you by any means: FOR THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME (the coming of Christ), except there come a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the SON OF PERDITION;



2 Thessalonians 2:9- Even Him, whose coming is AFTER the working of satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders,



2 Thessalonians 2:10- And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.



2 Thessalonians 2:11- And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:



2 Thessalonians 2:12- That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



Note: That explains it all. Jesus is NOT coming before the devil.



Acts 1:11 - ...This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.



Isaiah 24:1-3 - See, the Lord is going to lay waste the earth and devastate it; He will ruin it's face and scatter it's inhabitants - it will be the same for priest as for people, for master as for servant, for mistress as for maid, for seller as for buyer, for borrower as for lender, for debator as for creditor. The earth will be completley laid waste and totally plundered. The Lord has spoken this word.



Note: So clearly... if you think there's going to be an easy way out... you're wrong.





Here's a thought for you: God wants us to want Him. Sound right? Would you want a friend that wanted nothing to do with you? Or would you want a friend that wanted to make a friendship work?



I think the later.



See, if we live with being ridiculed for believing in God, and being different, not doing what everyone else is doing... and keep going... God loves that commitment. And we are truly blessed to have those things happen to us, because they are happening in God's name! The strength God gives the ones who love Him is greater than any strength you will ever see!



He wants us to want a good relationship with Him. He wants us to read the bible, and hunger for more, more, more knowledge. He wants to be part of our everyday life. He wants to help with every single decision we make. He simply wants OUR LOVE. And how can you go wrong with the creator of the universe on your side?



I love this bit of advice: Read. Read your bible, and ask God questions. If you seek, you WILL find. Don't live off of what preachers or someone else says, live off of what God tells you. When you pray, talk to God, as if you were talking to a friend standing right next to you. God doesn't want an impersonal prayer recited over and over again, He wants you, your words, your thoughts. God wants your love. Give it to Him, and you will surely reap your rewards... every day.
​

 

[just-a-servant]

Interesting take on the scriptures. How did you arrive at your line of reasoning?

 

[Zstrastwa]

Well first I studied this about a year ago, because I saw a popular preacher on TV saying that we won't be here when the devil has control over the earth. I felt strongly that he was wrong, but of course had no proof. After a while of studying and 2nd checking, praying to God, checking more, looking up more scripture that could possibly make my conclusion wrong... I found that it was impossible that Jesus Himself would say that the devil would come first and we would have to go through it and then contradict Himself. Yes, it says (as far as I've read, which was only a couple of scriptures on this exact subject and heresay from others, so I am not quoting) that ones who have stayed faithful will have it "easier" I still believe from the above and other parts of the Bible that God will have us go through many things in life just for loving Him and wanting to follow Him. My MAIN reason for trying to get this out for others to read is IF the devil does come while whoever reads this is here... I don't want them fooled by the devil, because he will make himself seem as Jesus. (Jesus also says in Matthew that if anyone says He (Jesus) is there/here, go not)... something like that.

 

[MelodyC]

What has the Rapture got to do with God changing our bodies from our Earthly Tent to a Spiritual Body?

I still totally disagree with you. There will be a Rapture.

Interesting many years ago people didn't argue over their being a Rapture or not. Most argued the timing of the Rapture and the closer we get to the start of the Tribulation the more attack there is on the Rapture.

Now God poured out His wrath/judgement on the world but Noah was righteous and so He was not meant for God's Wrath. Noah and his family eight in all were saved.

Lot and his family were also found righteous and spared from the Wrath of God that consumed Sodom and Gomorrah.

No one can argue that the righteous did not escape the Wrath of God.

2PE 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)-- 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority.

The Bible clearly teaches that God doesn't hold the righteous for judgement. The righteous are spared from God's Wrath.

ZEP 3:8 Therefore wait for me," declares the LORD, "for the day I will stand up to testify.
I have decided to assemble the nations, to gather the kingdoms and to pour out my wrath on them--
all my fierce anger.
The whole world will be consumed by the fire of my jealous anger.

So what is the Tribulation? Isn't it God's judgement on this earth. If you are a Saved Believer like Noah and Lot you are righteous. Or have you missed that teaching about salvation. The Blood of Jesus makes us Righteous before God.

2CO 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

So why are the righteous supposed to go through the Tribulation. So as a Saved Believer made righteous by the Blood of Christ I have not stored up God's Wrath against me. The rest of the world has but I haven't.

It doesn't make sense that those of us who have had our sins paid for and stand righteous before God should have to endure the punishment of the wicked?

Have you thought about that?? Probably not.

Why should Christians be Raptured out before the Tribulation starts. I say why not and God has done so before. God has spared the righteous from judgement he has poured out upon the Earth on the unrighteous or the wicked.

But you say there are Christians in the Tribulation time getting their heads chopped off. Yep to start off only those who have rejected God and do not have salvation are left behind but God continues to reach the UnSaved even during the Tribulation. There are the 144,000 witnesses that God raises from the tribes of Isreal (that has been rejoined with Judah to make one nation again) and there are the two witnesses in Jerusalem and in the second half of the Tribulation Angels are sent to the four corners of the Earth proclaiming the gospel of salvation. So people do repent and get salvation during the Tribulation and it is these Saints you read about in Revelation not the Church.

I'm sure the Lord will rescue those who are His from the upcoming wrath through a Rapture. Not because I want to have it easy. I certainly am persecuted now so I am not escaping having it hard from being a Christian. Because i do not believe that the anti-christ can establish his reign with the servants of God full of the Holy Spirit still here on Earth.

2TH 2:5 Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Who is the restrainer? Only the Holy Spirit is strong enough to restrain the Devil. Certainly no person can restrain him because we are all born with a sinful nature and are open to temptation and sin. Each current "born again" Child of God or Saved Believer has been given the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our salvation/eternal life. God cannot break His promise and remove the Holy Spirit from the Church Church (body of Christ). So to remove the Holy Spirit from this Earth God has to take all of us with Him. Hence the Church is raptured and then the anti-christ can be revealed.

Some more things to think about.

 

[Konquistador]

Picking single verses out of the Bible like this in a chain, to supposedly address an issue, is about as anti-Christ as I can imagine.

Judas hanged himself (find the verse)

Go and do likewise (find the verse)

Doing this kind of thing is EXACTLY what Jesus said was why the Pharisees would never get into Heaven.

 

[happyharold4]

Picking single verses out of the Bible like this in a chain, to supposedly address an issue, is about as anti-Christ as I can imagine.

Judas hanged himself (find the verse)

Go and do likewise (find the verse)

Doing this kind of thing is EXACTLY what Jesus said was why the Pharisees would never get into Heaven.

For your 3rd post aren't you coming on a bit too boldly---"Anti-Christ????

Happy

 

[Zstrastwa]

I just want for anyone who believes that Jesus will be here to whisk us away before the devil takes over... speak to God about it. It's not true. This was intended as some help to find that proof.

And don't forget, dear family, how God wants us to do everything out of love. =)

MelodyC you have missed my point. I put these scriptures together to show anyone who believes Jesus is coming first is wrong. I love my fellow brothers and sisters and do not wish them to be fooled. I realize that I say there will be no rapture, but again as I've already wrote, I'm refering to what people believe that God will take us away before the devil is unleashed upon the earth. In Revelations (and all throught the Bible ((which is the reason for multiple scripture references Konquistador <3)) it clearly explains that will not happen. Chapter 8 and 9. Also 1 Thessalonians 4: 14 - 18.

MelodyC I also don't see anywhere I said we would endure the wrath of God. I said we will be here when the devil has control of the earth...

Keep in mind this too family; John 3:13 - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
And being caught up into clouds with Jesus... clouds are not Heaven.

 

[MelodyC]

I just want for anyone who believes that Jesus will be here to whisk us away before the devil takes over... speak to God about it. It's not true. This was intended as some help to find that proof.

And don't forget, dear family, how God wants us to do everything out of love. =)

MelodyC you have missed my point. I put these scriptures together to show anyone who believes Jesus is coming first is wrong. I love my fellow brothers and sisters and do not wish them to be fooled. I realize that I say there will be no rapture, but again as I've already wrote, I'm refering to what people believe that God will take us away before the devil is unleashed upon the earth. In Revelations (and all throught the Bible ((which is the reason for multiple scripture references Konquistador <3)) it clearly explains that will not happen. Chapter 8 and 9. Also 1 Thessalonians 4: 14 - 18.

MelodyC I also don't see anywhere I said we would endure the wrath of God. I said we will be here when the devil has control of the earth...

Keep in mind this too family; John 3:13 - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
And being caught up into clouds with Jesus... clouds are not Heaven.

You are writing to convince people there is no rapture and there are many things you have not considered.

Since you obviously haven't looked at the scriptures I have suggested you need to think about you certainly don't want to change your mind.

I know I am correct that the Church isn't going through the Tribulation.

The Church is no where be seen in Revelation unless you are a Replacement Theologist. Which means you don't believe Israel means Israel in Revelation where funnily enough the only book in the Bible suddenly Israel means the Church.

Why in the world would God confuse people like that? God doesn't it is some Christians who choose to suddenly replace the word Israel to mean the Church & only in Revelation. Why don't we do this through the Old Testament? Because it is obvious the Church isn't there. Why does the New Testament refer to both Israel and The Church? Because there is a difference between the Nation of Israel who rejected Jesus as their Messiah and the Believing Jews who along with Believing Gentiles WHO together are the Church (NOT ISRAEL!).

So where is your Church in Revelation? Yes as I said before there are Saved Believers called Saints. Even in the Old Testament those who were Saved Believers before the Church came into being were called Saints, such men as Abraham and Moses. They were not part of the Church but are called Saints because they were Saved.

I have invited you to do a little more research and thinking. By the way I have gone into all the arguments and debates of No Rapture, Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib and Post-Trib Rapture before I made up my mind that the scriptures definitely pointed to a pre-tribulation rapture.

So it is up to you to do your homework as you are accountable for your decision before God and before you convince others you should make sure you are absolutely sure that you have gone through all the scriptures.

 

[David777]

Hello all.

If you look at the following verses that Jesus spoke. It seems reasonable that we are in for the long haul, to the end. It appears that we may well go through the tribulation.

(Luke 21:25-28, NKJV)
25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

(Matthew 24:9-14,NKJV)
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

We were not appointed for "wrath", means the second death, final judgement. Since 2Thessalonians tells us that Jesus destroys the anti-Christ at his arrival it seems logical that we obviously pass thru the tribulation.

I find eschatology interesting but very difficult to piece together.
I also believe in the rapture, but at the end of all things.
Would love to hear from others with different viewpoints.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Past event:
Eph. 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this
world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
Col 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus
Future event:
2 Thes 1:10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed-- for our testimony to you was believed.

The Word claims that I AM a new creature created in Christ.
That old things have past away and all things are new.
This could be speaking of a dual nature,one flesh one spirit.It could be revealing a pattern that manifests in Spirit form first and then in this time/matter/speed universe.The patterns show up in cyclesaniel,at the cross and in the book of revelations.

He is coming "with" his saints to be glorified "in" his saints.

 

[Zstrastwa]

(THE BELOW IS FROM ANOTHER SITE, A WOMAN WHO HAS MORE PROPERLY PUT TOGETHER AN EXPLINATION OF WHAT I HAVE DISCOVERED. It isn't as much of not wanting to change my mind MelodyC, and KNOWING what God tells me.)

No Rapture, Rapture is not Biblical

I gave a lesson on this years ago: I have made it shorter then it was, it is still long but beleve me a lot shorter hope it helps. Always have your Bible and a pad and pen and use them to get to the truth.


11 Timothy 2
15: “ Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth”

No where in the Bible does it speak of a rapture. It is not Biblical. The Bible does talk about a time when His true followers will be taken are shown a place to go for safety.
Try to imagine these headlines after the wide scale confusion caused by a “rapturing” away, Driver less bus crashes—hundreds killed, Schools in chaos, students and teachers disappear, Hundreds killed when pilots disappear, traffic jam, drivers gone in the blink of an eye, Factory employees , bosses vanish” Many have become so consumed by this man made doctrine that there has developed a series of movies and best selling books, including board games, about the aftermath of such a worldwide vanishing act!
There will be a time in the near future when His true followers will be shown are taken to a safe place this is biblical

What Will Really Happen?
Matthew 24 is a prophecy describing the end-time events preceding Christ’s Return. Jesus describes a period when society becomes “as the days of Noah were”
Matthew 24
37: “ But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be “
That time was “illed with violence
Genesis 6
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
People are again foretold to be so immersed in their lives that the Tribulation—called the worst time of trouble ever
Matthew 24
20: “ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:”
21: “ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. “
22: “ And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.”

Luke 21
35: “ For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.”
However, the Bible also warns, “There shall come in the last days scoffers...saying, Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers [the patriarchs] fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (II Pet. 3:3-4). Beware of those who scoff at all end-time prophecy.
11 Peter 3
3: “ Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,”
4: “ And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation “
Matthew 24 primarily deals with the final destruction of Jerusalem and the restored temple.
This destruction is referred to as “the abomination of desolation” in Daniel 12:11.
Daniel 12
11: “ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days”

Matthew 24
15: “ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) “

Mark 13
14: “ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: “
While many Bible prophecies have dual fulfillment’s, “the abomination of desolation” has three.
The first fulfillment occurred in 167 B.C., when Syrian king Antiochus Epiphanes offered a pig to the Greek god Zeus on the Temple altar in Jerusalem. The second fulfillment is a type of what Christ referred to in Matthew 24:15, when Roman armies destroyed Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The third fulfillment—the main one—is now imminent!
Before Christ returns, armies will again surround Jerusalem. God’s people are warned to flee to safety



Matthew 24
16: “ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:”
17: “ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18: “ Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. “
19: “ And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! “
20: “ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: “
21: “ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
22: “ And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.”
The coming Great Tribulation is real, as is God’s promise to protect His people. But, unlike the rapture theory, the Bible reveals there is a designated place on Earth, not heaven, where His true followers will be safe during the three and a half (not seven) years of Tribulation. Matthew 24 also reveals that the surrounding of Jerusalem by foreign forces is the event that signals when God’s people should flee to safety—not be raptured away to heaven!
Jesus was concerned for His people. He warned of what was coming, and of the need to escape invading armies and escalating war. He knew three problems would be apparent. First, those with small children, and especially nursing babies, would have particular difficulty escaping
Matthew 24
19: “ And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! “
20: “ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:”
21: “ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. “
22: “ And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.”
Second: Jesus’s true followers should pray that the time of flight not be in winter—meaning wintry conditions, because a related prophecy points directly to a wintertime flight.
Third had to do with the Sabbath verse 20 Obedience to the sanctity of God’s seventh-day Sabbath, which His true followers have always observed, and would therefore still be faithfully observing right to the end—could make flight more difficult.
Why would Christ instruct to pray concerning the time of flight if His servants were going to be supernaturally sucked away? Rapturists ignore this by incorrectly focusing on,
Matthew 24
17:“ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:”
Mark 13
15: “ And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:”
Such misrepresentation bypasses any need for personal responsibility! Jesus wants His true prayerfully involved in their escape—not self-assured, lazing back, expecting a heavenly vacuum cleaner to do it all for them! See through not only the false—but also irresponsible—rapture theory.

Rapture “Proof Texts”
Rapture supporters commonly cite the following five verses as supposed “proof texts.

I
Daniel 9
27: “And He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
Due to the muddled prophetic understanding of rapture theorists, they claim the phrase “one week” refers to the last seven years, or seven “prophetic days,” of mankind’s society. This is false!
This verse actually references the abomination of desolation, when occupying forces stop the Jews’ daily sacrifice at the Temple. It also addresses the final week of the 70 weeks prophecy about the Messiah and that Jesus Christ would be cut off in the middle of the week, after three and a half prophetic “days”—three and a half years—of His earthly mission. Daniel 9:27 is not a prophecy about how the antichrist will turn on the Jews halfway through the Tribulation.
II
Matthew 24
36: “ But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only”
40 : “Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”
41: “ Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”
42: “ Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. “
Comprehending any difficult scripture begins with knowing its context. Beginning in verse 40, Jesus explains the condition of society in the last days. People will be “in the field” and “at the mill,” carrying on daily activities. They will also be “eating and drinking” and “marrying and giving in marriage.” In other words, life will seem normal just before destruction—just before the snare. Verse 42 confirms that this will come unexpectedly. Famine, pestilence and military invasion will together claim two-thirds of the population of the modern nations of Israel. Read Ezekiel 5:12. Captivity—enslavement!—will take the remaining third.




III
John 14
1: “ Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.”
2: “ In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you”.
3: “ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. “
One of the greatest problems with the rapture is that heaven is not, and has never been, the reward of the saved.
Matthew 5
5: Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth”.

Psalm 37
11: “ But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace”

Revelation 5
9: “ And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth “

John 3
13: “ And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. “

So God’s people not raptured to heaven. Now latter His chosen ones will meet in heaven at the marriage supper. His chosen ones (the elect)
Revelation 19
7: “ Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.”
8: “ And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.”
9: “ And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.”
10: “ And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

John 14
2: “ In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you”
Heaven will descend to earth after His return

Revelation 3
11: “ Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.”
12: “ Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. “
Now the chosen ones will go up to the wedding supper. There they will receive their rewards and commission and when it is time Jesus on His white horse with the chosen ones will return to destroy all evil and set up Jesus’s kingdom.

IV
1 Corinthians 15
50: “ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
51: “ Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, “
52: “ In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
53: “ For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. “
54: “ So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.”


There is no proof—or even hint—of a rapture here! Notice the phrase “last trump.” This refers to the seventh trumpet, which announces Christ’s Return to the whole world. This last trumpet is also referred to in Revelation 11:15 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16. It sends a piercing, inmense, and reverberating sound that all inhabitants of Earth will hear.
Revelation 11
15: “ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. “
16: “ And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,”

Matthew 24
30: “ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
31: “ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. “

Nothing “secret” is being described! This trumpet blast announces Christ’s Return, and it is then when He gathers His people. At this point, His true followers will be changed into perfect, immortal beings. This is the time of the Resurrection, when the “dead in Christ” are raised to spirit-born immortal life. They first meet Him in the sky , not as a rapture. They are called up to the marriage supper for the big feast and become spirt beings (sons of God), receive their rewards and training and return with Jesus for the final battle and to begin rule of the earth as kings and priest.

V
1 Thessalonians 4
15: “ For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.”
16: “ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first”
17: “ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord”

Revelation 1
27: “ For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be “
He will return like lighting comes out of the east and shines even unto the west
As we have seen, the rapture theory has some truth mixed with much error. The difference between this teaching and what God’s Word really says about Christ’s Return is astounding.
Recall that God’s Word reveals a future last fulfillment of the “abomination of desolation,” when a religious-political-economic-military force stops the daily sacrifices at the Temple in Jerusalem. This destruction will be one of the two aspects of the sign for God’s people to flee, again, to a physical place of protection. Soon after, the Tribulation will strike the world—to the complete surprise of all its inhabitants.
This is explained by the apostle Paul in
1 Thessalonians 5
2: “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.”
The apostle Peter underscored this:
11 Peter 3
10: “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up”
. This worst time of trouble in history will last three and a half years, the duration of the reign of the Beast and False Prophet. No one will, or could miss it.
Revelation 1
7: “Behold, He comes with clouds; and every eye shall see Him [again, nothing secret here]...and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him.”

Acts 1
9: “ And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight”.
10: “ And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;”
11: “ Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. “
He will return the same way He entered Heaven. It’s really sad how so many miss that verse of His return. Its more sad that most do not read their Bibles for themselves they chose to trust man. SO many are deceived for the lack of knowledge. A lot of ministers are not of truth but of mans ways and doctrines not Gods. Everyone needs to study their Bible. Use it to prove what you are hearing are being taught.
Matthew 24
29: “ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: “
30: “ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
31: “ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. ‘
He will ”.... come in a clouds of heaven with power and great glory” This does not say He touches the ground only He comes down in a cloud to collect His chosen ones.
Revelation 4
1: “ After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter “

Revelation 11
12: “ And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them “
So Jesus descends in a cloud and He calls for the elect (chosen ones) who go to Him and ascend on the cloud back up to the marriage supper.
Matthew 24
37: “ But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
38: “ For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,”
39: “ And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
40 : “Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left”.
41: ‘ Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. “
42: “ Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.”

His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds [the “dead in Christ” will be resurrected—not raptured—from their graves], from one end of heaven to the other” (vs. 30-31). This should be literally impossible to misunderstand. Christ and His saints will then attend the marriage supper and the elect will receive their rewards and orders then they will return with Jesus when its time for the last battle and when that is done, then they will rule for 1,000 years in the established kingdom of God. This is the plain truth about what will occur at Christ’s Second Coming.
Do not be fooled by teachings claiming that Christ has already returned a second time, or that He is returning in secret. Christ clearly warned in
Matthew 24
23 : “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.”
24: “ For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. “
25: “ Behold, I have told you before.”
26: “ Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.”
27: “ For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”

The events preceding Christ’s Return are certainly horrible to contemplate. How to get through them naturally engenders more than worry—it begets great fear. So, it is also natural to want to escape what is coming. The rapture is merely a humanly devised path for escaping the horror of the Tribulation. The problem has always been that it is not what GOD says!
Jesus warned that many false teachers would arise. Deception about His Second Coming would not be an exception. Peter warned
11 Peter 1
16: “For we have not followed cunningly devised fables [Greek: a tale, fiction, myth], when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ...”
While this verse refers to accurately representing Christ’s First Coming, the principle applies to His Second. The rapture is a tale—a myth—aimed at giving what is false hope to the unwitting and unsuspecting. It is Satan deceiving many, don’t let him trick you.
The Bible records that His Second, final, coming will mark the end of the three-and-a-half-year period of the Great Tribulation and Day of the Lord, and will inaugurate the 1,000-year reign of Christ and His saints on the earth.

Jesus Christ built His Church—the true Church—the only one He built—2,000 years ago. This Church believes and teaches the truths of the Bible—all of them—not human ideas—any of them! The people of this Church have always stood in the plain certainty of what God does promise for those alive at the end—not the false hope of human inventions.
Reject the fiction of the rapture theory—and accept the truth of what God really promises in your Bible.

(END OF HER EXPLINATION)

This is what I meant. Lies, lies lies... the devil loves to spread them. I never go against something out of my own stubborness, I know what God tells me. The devil will USE this rapture belief to make many who have NOT studied for themselves or read/heard the truth to believe HE is Christ!

 

[james g]

IV. THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST. A. The Importance of the Doctrine.It is said that one out of every twenty-five verses of the New Testament speaks of the Second Coming, while in the Old Testament there are eight verses concerning the Second Coming to every verse concerning the First Coming. In the promise of a Redeemer (Gen. 3:15),the Second Coming is mentioned before the First Coming. "It shall bruise thy head [occurs at the Second Coming], and thou shalt bruise his heel [occurred at the First Coming, upon the Cross]."

1. Testimony of Our Lord. "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" John 14:3. See also Matthew 24, 25;Mark 13; Luke 21.

2. Testimony of Angels. "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:11). 3. Testimony of Peter. "He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:20).See also I Peter 5:4;II Peter 1:16. 4 Testimony of Paul. "I thank my God always on your behalf . . . that in every thing ye are enriched by him . . . so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ"(I Cor. 1:4-7.See also Romans 11:26:I Corinthians 15:23;II Corinthians 5;Philippians 3:20;Colossians 3:4;I Thessalonians (all); II Thessalonians 1:7,10;I Timothy 6:14;II Timothy 4:8;Titus 2:11-14;Hebrews 9:28. 5. Testimony of James. The prophets, quoted by James, represent the Lord as saying, "After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up" (Acts 15:16).See also James 5:7. 6. Testimony of John. "Beloved, now are we the Sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (I John 3:2).See also I John 2:28, and the Book of Revelation. 7. Testimony of Jude. "Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints" (Jude 14). B. The Meaning of the Second Coming.

1. Negative.
a. It Is Not Death. Death is the departing of the saint, not the coming of the Lord. The Lord will come, but death may never come
b. It Is Not the Fall of Jerusalem. Luke 21:20-24,and I Thessalonians 4:13-18 did not occur when Jerusalem fell. The second coming of Christ is connected with the gathering of Israel, not the scattering. c. It Is Not the Coming of the Holy Spirit. Christ said that He would send another (John 14:16).I Thessalonians 4: 13-18 did not occur when the Holy Spirit came. Notice that all of the Epistles which speak of the Second Coming were written after Pentecost. d. It Is Not the Conversion of a Sinner. If this is true, He has come millions of times. According to I Corinthians 15:51-57,the dead would have to be raised every time a soul was saved, and then get back into the grave, waiting for another to be saved
.e. It Is Not the Diffusion of Christianity. By this some mean the spreading of the Gospel. But remember, this same Jesus, a personal Christ, is to come again
.f. It Is Not the End of the World. When Christ comes, the world will not be destroyed, for He will reign a thousand years after He appears. 2. Positive.

a. It Will Be a Personal Coming. John 14:3 says, "I will come." We are not to expect a spirit, but a Spirit in a body. I Thessalonians 4:16,17 uses the word "himself."Acts 1:11 declares "this same Jesus"; not some other person or thing is expected, but Christ Himself
.b. It Will Be a Visible Coming. "As the lightning cometh out of the East, and shineth even unto the West; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt. 24:27).See also Zechariah 12:10;Revelation 1:7 c. Meaning of the Words Used.
(1) Parousia. This means the personal presence, the coming presence. It is spoken not only of the coming of the Lord, but of the coming of other men (I Cor. 16:17;II Cor. 7:6,7;Philippians 1:26).Concerning the coming of the Lord, it is at that moment, when absence ceases and presence begins (Matt. 24:3,27;I Cor. 15:23;I Thess. 2:9;Jas. 5:8.
(2) Epiphaneia. This simply means "appearing." It is used of both advents (II Tim. 1:10;]II Thess. 2:8; I Tim. 6:14;II Tim. 4:1,8;Titus 2:13. (3) Apokalupsis. The literal meaning is "unveiling revelation." It emphasizes the visibility of the Lord’s return (II Thess. 1:7;I Peter 1:7,13;4:13. It is used also for men: Romans 8:19;II Thessalonians 2:3,6,8. d. It Is a Coming in Two Phases.

(1) When Christ Comes for His Saints in the Air. "We beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him" (II Thess. 2:1).The promise of Christ’s return of Acts 1:9-20 was given before the Rapture was revealed. Hebrews 9:28 has nothing to do with the Rapture
.(2) When Christ Comes with His Saints to Earth. "Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints" (Jude 14)(3) These Two Phases Are Vastly Different.
(a) Different in Character. "For His people" is an act of faith; "with His people" is an act of judgment
(b) Different in Manner. One is secret, the other is a manifestation.(c[/SIZE]) Different in Place. "For His people" — in the air (I Thess. 4:17);"with His people" — to the earth (Zech. 14:14(d)

Different as to Time. "For His people" occurs before the Tribulation (Jacob’s trouble); "with His people" occurs after the Tribulation (Jacob’s trouble). We are never told in Scripture to look for signs preceding His coming for His saints, but men are told to look for signs before He comes with His saints (Compare II Thess. 2:1-3 with Is. 13: 6-9. (e) Different as to Dispensations. Coming "for His saints" occurs at the beginning of the dispensation of Tribulation; coming "with His saints" occurs at the beginning of the dispensation of the Millennium. (f) Different as to Purpose. Coming "for His saints" fulfills His promise to gather His people John 14:3;coming "with His saints" as a man of war, His promise to overthrow His enemies Jude 14. (g) Different as to Relation. "For His saints" is the adoption of the children of God; "with His saints" the time that the sons of God are manifested to the world.Rom.8:19 C. The Events of the Second Coming in Relation to the Body of Christ. As we deal with the Rapture of the Church, we recognize the fact that the word "rapture" is not a Scriptural word. The Rapture is, however, a Scriptural fact

1. The Resurrection of the Dead in Christ. "The Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first" I Thess. 4:16.The very first thing that happens is the resurrection of the body of Christ. Certainly this will include all who die before reaching the age of accountability, such as babes, the mentally retarded, and the like. If Christ does not come, there will be no resurrection, and if no resurrection, then man shall be an eternal spirit. If diamonds can be made from soot, sapphire from clay, and opals from sand, what will God make out of our bodies? It will be wonderful, will it not

2. The Renovation of the Living in Christ. "Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. . . . and we shall be changed. . . . And this mortal must put on immortality" I Cor. 15:51-53.The Christian is one who is not looking for death, but for the conqueror of death. The words "we shall not all sleep" mean "we shall not all die." What a glorious hope this is! What a shout that will be that day! "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" I Cor. 15:55.Isn’t it a blessed hope that it is possible for us to go without dying? No man, not even a Christian, wants to die. That is natural. The Christian, however, is one who is not afraid to die. The Christian is the only person who has a hope of never seeing death. Yes, we know the Scripture says, "It is appointed unto men once to die." But the Scripture does not only say all men! The changing of us who are alive and remain at His coming is not death, for we shall not all die!

3. The Rapture of All in Christ. "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind . . . as that the day of the Lord is at hand" II Thess. 2:1,2.The above Scripture, and the phrase, "we all shall be changed," eliminates the possibility of a partial rapture. The entire Body of Christ will be raptured (caught up); it will be a rapture, and not a rupture. The Body of Christ will be complete. No member of His Body will be left to go through the Tribulation. Some say, "How can this be?" God took Elijah up without death; He can take a million, or ten million up just as easily. The Rapture of the Church will cause a great separation. All unbelievers will be left here to go through the Tribulation. The Rapture of the Church will be the means of a great reunion. "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" I Thess. 4:17.What a great word is "together"; all of our loved ones in Christ "together" once more. "We should live soberly, righteously, and godly . . . looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" Titus 2:13.What do we mean by "looking for Christ"? It does not mean that we believe that He may come at any moment, but that we are looking for Him to come. Are you looking for Him today? Are you looking for Him tonight? That is what the Scripture means by "looking for Him."

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

So do we suppose that all this scripture concerning end times was written for the tiny fraction of Christians who would occupy the earth at the end?
Why would reading the book of Revelations be a blessing to someone 1000 years ago or 1500 or 500 years ago.If it only concerns the end time people how would that edify all those who now sleep in Christ?
Is it at all possible that these teachings present the mystery of God in a cryptic manner that reveals cycles and patterns that would be manifested in both the micro(individual) and the macro(earth)?

Prov. 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.

If Christians are removed and the earth destroyed then how do these following verses ever take place.

Hab. 2:14 For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him,

Jeremiah 31:34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

Isaiah 11:9 They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Zechariah 14:9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so
that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.

I just can't place these verses and about 30 more in any kind of "left behind" context.
I'm waiting for his Glory to be revealed in us.
Didn't he say in this world "you" shall have tribulation.
Do we think we can escape this tribulation?

 

[Brother Mike]

There is a "Rapture"

Another Rapture thread.... cool..

Melody is correct... Jesus comes for the Church.

Correct that no fear should be found in any of us, rapture or no rapture.

I have posted enough on this already.. there are two distinct events listed in Matt 24..

Event 1: we know exactly when Jesus returns... on the last angelic Trumpet and the sixth seal released. Immediately after the Tribulation... You can set your clock by this..

Event 2: (out of order) Jesus speaks to those that call him Lord, or believers warning us that we don't know the day or hour of his coming. Things continue on earth as they always have, and one is taken, the other left..

The first event described in Rev (Or after the trib) the angels reap the whole earth harvest and leave nobody behind... the event Jesus describes that no man knows what hour some are left behind... Two different events..

In There shall be a falling away first... this does not denote anyone coming and adding Christ's return is not a good idea... study the Greek if you have to, but Falling away means a mass deflection from Truth of what people consider the Church world. It's Greek for Apostasy... That must occur before the son of perdition is revealed but He (Jesus and his body) must be taken away before that occurs.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

Another Rapture thread.... cool..

Melody is correct... Jesus comes for the Church.

Correct that no fear should be found in any of us, rapture or no rapture.

I have posted enough on this already.. there are two distinct events listed in Matt 24..

Event 1: we know exactly when Jesus returns... on the last angelic Trumpet and the sixth seal released. Immediately after the Tribulation... You can set your clock by this..

Event 2: (out of order) Jesus speaks to those that call him Lord, or believers warning us that we don't know the day or hour of his coming. Things continue on earth as they always have, and one is taken, the other left..

The first event described in Rev (Or after the trib) the angels reap the whole earth harvest and leave nobody behind... the event Jesus describes that no man knows what hour some are left behind... Two different events..

In There shall be a falling away first... this does not denote anyone coming and adding Christ's return is not a good idea... study the Greek if you have to, but Falling away means a mass deflection from Truth of what people consider the Church world. It's Greek for Apostasy... That must occur before the son of perdition is revealed but He (Jesus and his body) must be taken away before that occurs.

Jesus Is Lord.

Two raptures? can you say which Rev verse are you referring to? I think it could just mean that All believers are raptured...

 

[Brother Mike]

oh..

Matt 24.. just read.. two different events...

Jesus Is Lord

 

[jari]

Matt 24.. just read.. two different events...

Jesus Is Lord

was asking about the Rev scripture Bro.. Matt 24 seems to be clear answer from Jesus for the disciples, telling how the end is to come. Jesus first talks about tribulation and says after those days He will come.

No two raptures there. two events yes, trib and rapture.

 

[Zstrastwa]

Because there will be Tribulation... then a safe haven for us to retreat to or so it seems. I know not for sure what it is that happens then, I just know we are not "raptured" caught up to Jesus until the end, when He comes with all His glory.

It is so easy to understand, because OUR LORD Jesus tells us to NOT LET ANYONE tell you lies or try to "explain" it. THAT's WHAT Jesus DOES...

 

[Brother Mike]

Matt 24

I really have tons of post on this in the past, and go verse by verse in Matt 24......... sort of a beat down topic....

Zstrastwa:

The time of the end is not about Satan, but the Wrath of God on this World.. The Scripture says we escape the Wrath to come.. much has been debated about this, and certainly we don't need to bother much with the devil as he has already been defeated.

There are some things to look at when sorting through this. We need to assume that God's Word can not contradict.

If we are left here through the tribulation, then we need to check some concerns... we need to make sure everything lines up correctly. This is what changed my mind about the post rapture theory..

Examine Matt 24: Just read along..

Jesus starts off by talking about sorrows on the World. Nation against nation.
Earthquakes in Divers places... (Greek literally means Earthquakes that target populated cities as CNN and CBS news did a report on)

Jesus said the gospel shall be preached all over the World, and he said the temple spoken of in Danial will be set up... that means the end or at least it's on the way.

He gave a warning. Let them that are in Judaea flee........ He is talking directly to Israel here and those in that area. He is not talking to the body of Christ here.

He also said pray it won't be on the Sabbath, once again He is talking to those that follow strict adherence to the Sabbath Traditions, not Christians.

Matt 24:21 He says there will be a great tribulation that this World has never seen... Same thing Dan 12:1 mentioned.

Matt 24:22 He states that no flesh shall be saved, unless those days are shortened. A defined seven year period.

This would denote that all that are here, are going through hard times. This effects everyone.

Matt 24:27 Jesus tells us how he comes.. As lightning... all will see this described event.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

We are told that Immediately after the tribulation and release of the sixth seal Jesus comes. He comes as lighting and the sun is darkened and the moon a blood red from the reflection of the sun.. We are told his angels gather up the Earth Harvest as described in Rev, and both groups are taken.. the tares and the wheat.

This even occurs after the seventh Angelic Trumpet blast and the sixth seal is released (Rev 6)

We know exactly when this event occurs and nobody will be confused by it because the sun will be made dark. All the tribes will mourn at this event so they will know exactly when it happens.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The other Event Jesus describes he is talking to another group of people.

It's like the days of Noah, and Noah served God and was saved. Everyone else was going about their business and doing what they normally do but sudden destruction came.

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Jesus is talking about Israel again...........He starts back to where he started as he address another group.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

This describes an event that takes people by surprise, not like the first event Jesus describes. There is no warning, no sun going dark, nothing... People are going about their business just like in the days of Noah...

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

In this event, one is taken, and one is left... in the first event Jesus described, the whole earth is harvested.

Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

The people he address here is not Judaea or Israel.. It's to those that call him Lord........They say my Lord Delays his coming....Nobody will think this during the Tribulation.

Peter mentioned this to believers...

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

The event Peter describes is the event before the tribulation. The Tribulation is unlike anyone has ever seen on the earth before, so nobody will be saying things continue the same as before... Same thing Jesus described...

----------------------------------------------

There is no mention of the Church, Gospel of Christ, or any Church language mentioned after Rev 3, until the end... There is a reason for that... We are not there.

--------------------------------------
Satan is not that big... Thess:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Falling away means Apostasy in the Greek. Same language Paul used in Heb 6.. "If they shall fall away it is imposable......"

The time of the end won't began until the Church as the World sees it deflects from the truth...

Presbyterian= Voted to allow Gay ministers
Methodist= now have gay ministers
Lutheran= Voted for gay ministers

That is millions that have left the truth, and not counting the rest of the corruption, but major denominations that have fallen.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

The mystery of iniquity........ The power of the Church as a body that is keeping this planet together. Once "He" is taken out of the way...then the Antichrist will be revealed. That He is Jesus, and his body...

Satan can not operate in the last days if the Church is in the way. Satan would not stand a chance as the gates of hell can not prevail against us, and we have been delivered from the power of darkness and given authority over the devil... (Luke 10:19)

This is why we are never mentioned during Revelation.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Zstrastwa]

hmmmmmmmmmm

Still so much to consider... it seems almost impossible for me to understand Revelations.
Thanks Mike I have much to study. <3