AudreyNicole
Member
I was wondering how everyone views the death penalty? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it "Christian"? Should the most disgusting, perverted, shameless, cold blooded killers be put to death for their actions?
The Death Penalty
- Thread starter AudreyNicole
- Start date
Tough question.
Murder for example is a very serious crime against society.
Society has to be protected against such people.
Do we put them in prison or execute them?
Perhaps it could be a referendum question, that's democracy.
For mass murderers, and the murder of children. I would lean toward the death penalty.
I think i would have executed both Hitler and Stalin for example.
For a woman who killed her violent husband, probably not.
In conclusion, case by case rather than a general rule.
Murder for example is a very serious crime against society.
Society has to be protected against such people.
Do we put them in prison or execute them?
Perhaps it could be a referendum question, that's democracy.
For mass murderers, and the murder of children. I would lean toward the death penalty.
I think i would have executed both Hitler and Stalin for example.
For a woman who killed her violent husband, probably not.
In conclusion, case by case rather than a general rule.
gospelpreacher
Member
I Corinthians 5:
1: It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father's wife.
2: And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
3: For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment
4: in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
5: you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. This verse clearly shows that sinners will be saved even after their flesh is killed.
AudreyNicole
Member
Wait, wait, wait..... sinners will be saved? You mean only if they accept Christ as Lord, right? Everyone on this earth is NOT going to heaven. I'm not quite sure I understand what your reply means............. but back to the original question:
Should "bad" people be put to death (by humans) for their actions?
gospelpreacher
Member
Everyone was created in heaven who is God. We will always exist in heaven but we need physical bodies to use during this age but we all perish because our bodies were made corrupt through the DNA, or seed, that came all the way from the seed of Adam and Eve. The only way to be sinless is for God to change the DNA to stop the sin nature. But we still have memories of this world so we have to die. We have no choices in the plans of God.
After this age is over, the earth will finish changing into a new earth with no mountains, oceans or polar caps. That's because the crust is going to be melted by hot lava soon to make the earth level. God has around 100 billion created people who will need new bodies to live in this new paradise.
God never planned to destroy any of his creation. That belief came from misinterpreted scriptures and prophecies that sinners weren't authorized to do. Only God can interpret the scriptures and use his prophecies to reveal his knowledge and have them spoken into action. That's what his saints and Jesus were for to speak his prophecies and find each other with the gospel. But the main reason was to reveal his knowledge that has to used for the new adult bodies the he'll need for ruling his new Kingdom.
happyharold4
Member
GP---Can't rap my head around what you are saying????
AN----Ecc. 8:11---"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil"
I feel that the land you live in should establish the laws and the prescribed consequences for breaking them----Personally I feel that the death penalty should definitely be upheld---They should be given the opportunity to hear the gospel and repent of their sins, (if they choose), and then be executed.
Happy
AN----Ecc. 8:11---"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil"
I feel that the land you live in should establish the laws and the prescribed consequences for breaking them----Personally I feel that the death penalty should definitely be upheld---They should be given the opportunity to hear the gospel and repent of their sins, (if they choose), and then be executed.
Happy
gospelpreacher
Member
How can there be a choice to accept the gospel when most people never hear it? The gospel was intended to be heard by God's chosen people, not everyone.
Ephesians 1:
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
5: He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Romans 8:
28: We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose
29: For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
30: And those whom he predestined he also called and those whom he called; he also justified; and those whom he justified; he also glorified.
II Thesalonians 2:
13: But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
14: To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 15
16: You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
I Corinthians 1:
25: For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26: For consider your call, brethren; not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth;
27: but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong,
28: God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
29: so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
Mark 13:
20: And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
AudreyNicole
Member
gospelpreacher- I don't quite understand what you are saying either. But here is a website that might be able to help you get to know God and Christ a little better:
How to Know God :: Campus Crusade for Christ International
I hope this helps you.
happyharold- Interesting view. I believe in upholding the law, but only if that law is godly one. There have been many unjust laws throughout history and I would argue it is our responsibility to break such laws. But I wonder.... if they (the criminal) hear the gospel and accept Christ/repent of their sins, should they still be executed?
How to Know God :: Campus Crusade for Christ International
I hope this helps you.
happyharold- Interesting view. I believe in upholding the law, but only if that law is godly one. There have been many unjust laws throughout history and I would argue it is our responsibility to break such laws. But I wonder.... if they (the criminal) hear the gospel and accept Christ/repent of their sins, should they still be executed?
Giggles4God
Member
Everything we do has a consequence. If we sin, there is a consequence.
If we break the law, there is a consequence.
In the Bible it says that the law of the land must be upheld.
I believe just because someone becomes a Christian will not save them from their consequence or punishment if they broke the law.
Remember the thief on the cross with Jesus? He still died even though he spoke to Jesus and would be with Him in paradise.
It might be interesting to some for Christians to hate abortion, but want the death penalty. The difference in the two things is that the baby has no say in its death and the criminal broke the law. The criminal knew what he/she did was wrong.
If we break the law, there is a consequence.
In the Bible it says that the law of the land must be upheld.
I believe just because someone becomes a Christian will not save them from their consequence or punishment if they broke the law.
Remember the thief on the cross with Jesus? He still died even though he spoke to Jesus and would be with Him in paradise.
It might be interesting to some for Christians to hate abortion, but want the death penalty. The difference in the two things is that the baby has no say in its death and the criminal broke the law. The criminal knew what he/she did was wrong.
Dear Audrey.
Hello.
This is a hypothetical question for you.
Just wondering what criminal sentence Judge Audrey would have handed down to Adolf Hitler. Remembering of course that Adolf Hitler
directly ordered the execution of millions of Jews. Some of these Jews were infants and young children.
A two year sentence?
A ten year sentence?
A death penalty?
Interested in your reply.
Hello.
This is a hypothetical question for you.
Just wondering what criminal sentence Judge Audrey would have handed down to Adolf Hitler. Remembering of course that Adolf Hitler
directly ordered the execution of millions of Jews. Some of these Jews were infants and young children.
A two year sentence?
A ten year sentence?
A death penalty?
Interested in your reply.
SpiritLedEd
Member
I believe that Paul, in 2 Cor 2:6-9 (NIV), was speaking of this same man when he wrote, "The punishment inflicted on him by the majority
is sufficient for him. Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him so that he will not be overwhelmed with excessive sorrow. The reason I wrote you (1 Cor 5) was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything." Evidently the man repented, was welcomed back into the Corinthian church and was not given the death penalty.
SLE
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happyharold4
Member
A.N.----Absolutely yes----But what a wonderful thing if he/she actually was regenerated before the execution----Make it easier for yourself with a lessor example-----Let's say I stole Mr. X's brand new car----While I'm enjoying driving it I stop in at a church and the message is so powerful that I convert on the spot----Now God has forgiven me and the Christians have, but what do I do with that car----Keep driving it????----No, it would be the Lords will that I turn myself in and hope for mercy, and if none is granted then I will man up and accept the consequences for my deeds.
Happy
AudreyNicole
Member
Hmmmm.... Hitler, I would sentence him to life in prison. I believe that both creating life and destroying life are to be left to God alone. So I would never take a life, even of the most horrid and wretched criminal. I don't think it is our place to deal with life in that manner, and so I would just leave that part up to God and His Judgment Day. I think He can take care of all of these people without any help from us.
And I suppose I don't quite understand the point of killing someone. It seems quite vengeful to me... and, just like the ability to destroy life, vengeance is God's. It seems to be an attitude of "well he took that person's life, so I'm going to take his life." The Bible talks a lot about loving enemies, not holding grudges, kindness, forgiveness, and oh ya... not killing people. So in light of all the verses that seem to speak to this, I would have to say the death penalty seems pretty unbiblical.
So in regards to Hitler... I wouldn't kill him. I think there are many different kinds of earthly punishment that will suffice until Judgment Day. And I think after that Hitler will definitely get what he deserves.
Old testament.
Hello again Audrey.
Since we are discussing Civil Law. You would be aware that the Civil Law handed down to Israel contained the death penalty for murder.
You take a life you forfeit your own in essence.
This is the same penalty that is obeyed by some states in the US for murder. Around the World, in many countries, the crime of murder is dealt with in a similiar way usually a death penalty
There is a seperation between societies laws and personal moral laws.
We as Christians are under the "law of Christ".
We are unable to obey the law, so Christ is the fulfillment of the law for us. See Paul's letter to the Romans.
If a Christian murders someone we as Christians can forgive them. But, they must be tried in a civil court for the crime against society.
Hello again Audrey.
Since we are discussing Civil Law. You would be aware that the Civil Law handed down to Israel contained the death penalty for murder.
You take a life you forfeit your own in essence.
This is the same penalty that is obeyed by some states in the US for murder. Around the World, in many countries, the crime of murder is dealt with in a similiar way usually a death penalty
There is a seperation between societies laws and personal moral laws.
We as Christians are under the "law of Christ".
We are unable to obey the law, so Christ is the fulfillment of the law for us. See Paul's letter to the Romans.
If a Christian murders someone we as Christians can forgive them. But, they must be tried in a civil court for the crime against society.
Furious_Love
Member
Did Jesus order the death of anyone? He said forgive them Father for they know what they do. Get away from humanistic views and the Old Testament. We are not under the Law now. Just my piece.:wink:
AudreyNicole
Member
Hmmmm.... well, we as Christians could stand up for their (the criminal's) rights under they law of Christ, therefore upholding and promoting His law above that of any society. And once again, His law is forgiveness, not murder. We should always uphold the law of Christ over any law of the land. He is greater than this earth; He is greater than the law, and so He can take care of these criminals as He sees fit without our help.
happyharold4
Member
I think if a standard isn't set in place by a society to deal with murder---For example no death penalty only life imprisonment then I'm afraid cold blooded murder would become even more rampant than it is now----So if asked as a Christian would I vote to establish the death penalty and uphold it---Then I believe my answer would be yes to try and help to protect the innocence of others----If one knows he is for sure going to lose his own life for the act of murder, then I feel he would become more hesitant in committing that act----Ecc. 8:11---"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil"
Happy
AudreyNicole
Member
This is actually a very interesting point because I did a research/debate project on the use of the death penalty as a crime deterrent, and most every study has concluded that the death penalty has absolutely no effect in deterring crime. Prior to my research I was pro death penalty. But after the conclusion of my studies I realized that this punishment really makes no sense. If a person is in the state of mind to murder another, there is no amount of reason or logic that will keep them from committing that crime. They are not going to take a step back and say "wait, perhaps I shouldn't do this because my life will be at stake." Emotions can drive the sanity out of humans, and thus there is no recognition of consequences.
It is also interesting to note that many horrendous killers often take their own life after the crime is committed. I think this only further proves that the thought of death has absolutely no effect on whether or not they commit the crime.... Thus supporting the claim that the death penalty does not deter crime.
On a more practical economic note, it actually costs more to execute a person compared to a life sentence in prison. We, as tax payers, are paying more to have these criminals killed, than it would cost to simply keep them locked up all of life. I have researched the economic impacts and have looked at the figures released from many different state prisons, and the books show that a life sentence is less expensive then execution.
And, another point, if we are looking to punishment as a deterrent, surveys and studies show that most criminals would rather be killed then serve life in prison, which is why a lot of them commit suicide. Life in prison is worse than death. So looking at this with vengeance in mind, if you truly want to "get a person back", send them to prison. (But again, the Bible does not condone vengeance.)
So all in all, from a practical, an ethical, a moral, and a biblical standpoint, I would have to say that the death penalty does not seem to hold up.
PernellRodocker
Member
Give Them TV and Radio Too!
Lets see... death penalty? Now for what purpose would anyone want the death penalty imposed on someone for? Maybe we could build a special place for those that maybe should have been convicted of something worthy of the death penalty but give them life in a small confined place away from society. Now we need also to feed, clothe and provide medical care also... Ah, lets not forget the people that do the feeding, clothing and doctoring. They need to be paid also. Of course if our society was, lets say, maybe a Socialist Republic then we wouldn't have to worry about pay so much... While we are at it lets provide them with televisions, radios and a special store so if they don't like the food provided that they can have a storage of other things with them... Lets also give them more rights than the ones that see to their needs... So then you ask me do I agree with the death penalty... well, my job will always be secure for as long as I carry keys... But maybe you should ask me what I would do if someone killed my family or if my life had objects of death constantly in my face... well, I'm sure that the weapon that I carry would not hesatate to end the life of the one that took a family members or attempted to take mine...
I must say that when a murderer is caught and takes their own life that it brings closure to the familys right away with out long drawn out court procedings. Thus, saving hundreds of thousands of dollars a year per convict. I believe at last glance that to care for one convict for a year with good health and no court procedings takes around 40 thousand a year...
I think that God placed people in authority and that we are to obey the rules of the land we live in. Even Jesus paid taxes...
So if the penalty for killing someone is death... then lets follow the laws of the land and do as we are told. If the laws of the land say to let them live in luxury untill they die then so be it. So I guess we can live where we want and if we don't like it we can move or make our voice heard (vote).
Me, I live where the death penalty is upheld. I choose to live where I can carry a weapon on my hip too!
PR
Lets see... death penalty? Now for what purpose would anyone want the death penalty imposed on someone for? Maybe we could build a special place for those that maybe should have been convicted of something worthy of the death penalty but give them life in a small confined place away from society. Now we need also to feed, clothe and provide medical care also... Ah, lets not forget the people that do the feeding, clothing and doctoring. They need to be paid also. Of course if our society was, lets say, maybe a Socialist Republic then we wouldn't have to worry about pay so much... While we are at it lets provide them with televisions, radios and a special store so if they don't like the food provided that they can have a storage of other things with them... Lets also give them more rights than the ones that see to their needs... So then you ask me do I agree with the death penalty... well, my job will always be secure for as long as I carry keys... But maybe you should ask me what I would do if someone killed my family or if my life had objects of death constantly in my face... well, I'm sure that the weapon that I carry would not hesatate to end the life of the one that took a family members or attempted to take mine...
I must say that when a murderer is caught and takes their own life that it brings closure to the familys right away with out long drawn out court procedings. Thus, saving hundreds of thousands of dollars a year per convict. I believe at last glance that to care for one convict for a year with good health and no court procedings takes around 40 thousand a year...
I think that God placed people in authority and that we are to obey the rules of the land we live in. Even Jesus paid taxes...
So if the penalty for killing someone is death... then lets follow the laws of the land and do as we are told. If the laws of the land say to let them live in luxury untill they die then so be it. So I guess we can live where we want and if we don't like it we can move or make our voice heard (vote).
Me, I live where the death penalty is upheld. I choose to live where I can carry a weapon on my hip too!
PR