Titus 2:13

[KingdomSeeker]

Hello,

I Wondered if anyone had any information on the correct translation of this verse:

"awaiting the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; "

is it "...Glory of our great God AND Saviour..."

or "...Glory of our great God, and Saviour..."

Darby, American standard, and several others dont add the comma.

KJV, Wycliffe, NIV(2010) DO have the comma.

NOw the Comma Changes EVERYTHING, especially in witnessing...so if someone can clear it up for me that would be appritiated. Jesus Bless you. -K.S.

 

[Brighthouse]

Since Our great God and Saviour,Chrsit Jesus comes after Saviour. I suspect the reason for this is Because Jesus is both. at least to me.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

Hello,

I Wondered if anyone had any information on the correct translation of this verse:

"awaiting the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; "

is it "...Glory of our great God AND Saviour..."

or "...Glory of our great God, and Saviour..."

Darby, American standard, and several others dont add the comma.

KJV, Wycliffe, NIV(2010) DO have the comma.

NOw the Comma Changes EVERYTHING, especially in witnessing...so if someone can clear it up for me that would be appritiated. Jesus Bless you. -K.S.

Speaking purely grammatically, a comma in that context is redundant, since it is neither separating a new clause, nor distinguishing between three or more objects. If it had said something like, "Our God, our Savior Jesus Christ, and our wagon," then commas would have been necessary. Think (apples and oranges) not (apples, and oranges).

When identifying two or fewer objects (in this case, Jesus Christ and/or God), a comma is not necessary. Even the KJV that this site refers us to includes no comma, but instead says, "...the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ," indicating two separate entities.


However, if the statement had been written, "...the great God and our Savior, Jesus Christ," this would indicate that the two are one in the same. It would be suggesting that Jesus Christ is both God and Savior. However, upon looking into other translations, this doesn't even pop up as an option, leading me to believe that the two are considered (At least in this verse) separate entities.

 

[Davy]

Hi, KingdomSeeker.

Its always a good idea to let the bible explain itself. Titus 2:13, according to (NLT) says: "while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed." As you have stated the grammatical structure of this verse seams a bit strange, but if you look at Titus 1:4, Paul basically says the same thing, but it is a little clearer: "I am writing to Titus, my true son in the faith that we share. May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior give you grace and peace." (NLT) There is no reason to believe Paul would change this notion mid way through his letter to Titus.

 

[KingdomSeeker]

Hi, KingdomSeeker.

Its always a good idea to let the bible explain itself. Titus 2:13, according to (NLT) says: "while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed." As you have stated the grammatical structure of this verse seams a bit strange, but if you look at Titus 1:4, Paul basically says the same thing, but it is a little clearer: "I am writing to Titus, my true son in the faith that we share. May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior give you grace and peace." (NLT) There is no reason to believe Paul would change this notion mid way through his letter to Titus.

Hi Davy.

Yes. Actually...I had gone over this a bunch of times, different Translations. And its Calling Jesus, Not Only our saviour, But in Fact the Glory of God.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Its Saying That Jesus is The Glory of God.

SOme Other versions Say "Glorious appearing"

(KJV)
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

...But thats in correct according to the origional Greek.


So Jesus Is:

The Word of God.

The Glory of God.

The Power of God.

The Wisdom of God

The ARM Of God(look into it...its amazing)

The Spirit of God (1 John 5:6, John 14:6, 1 Peter 4:14, 2 Corinthians 3:18)

So...Trinity...is a bit of a strech...This is a recent Study, Nothing is Set in stone in my mind at the moment...just wonder what people think about this.

Jesus IS The Spirit.

Therefore, The WORD that Did come from God, and Always IS comming down, and Out from the Lord, Yes The Word is Jesus, But The WORD is Also The Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit.

So This is saying that The Holy Spirit, is the entity, that was With God from the begining, and IS God, Yet is Seperate. The SPIRIT became Flesh...So thats NOT three...thats Two.

What does anyone think of this?

 

[Jaareshiah]

Hi Davy.

Yes. Actually...I had gone over this a bunch of times, different Translations. And its Calling Jesus, Not Only our saviour, But in Fact the Glory of God.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Its Saying That Jesus is The Glory of God.

SOme Other versions Say "Glorious appearing"

(KJV)
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

...But thats in correct according to the origional Greek.


So Jesus Is:

The Word of God.

The Glory of God.

The Power of God.

The Wisdom of God

The ARM Of God(look into it...its amazing)

The Spirit of God (1 John 5:6, John 14:6, 1 Peter 4:14, 2 Corinthians 3:18)

So...Trinity...is a bit of a strech...This is a recent Study, Nothing is Set in stone in my mind at the moment...just wonder what people think about this.

Jesus IS The Spirit.

Therefore, The WORD that Did come from God, and Always IS comming down, and Out from the Lord, Yes The Word is Jesus, But The WORD is Also The Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit.

So This is saying that The Holy Spirit, is the entity, that was With God from the begining, and IS God, Yet is Seperate. The SPIRIT became Flesh...So thats NOT three...thats Two.

What does anyone think of this?

Titus 2:13 is used at times, to give support to the trinity doctrine, saying that "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (King James Bible) are one and the same. However, as has been pointed out, Titus 1:4 makes a clear distinction between "God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior." The word "and" is "a conjunction used to indicate an additional thing, situation, or fact."( Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) Thus, there are two persons being spoken of here. In addition, the Bible is not 66 separate books that are individualistic, each standing alone, but is one complete book that is harmonious, with one author, Jehovah God.

This thus compliments what the apostle Paul had said at 1 Corinthians 8:6, that "to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ."(King James Bible) A modern English translation reads of Titus 2:13: "while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus."(New World Translation)

Titus 2:13 does not say that "Jesus is the glory of God", but rather that " we " are ' waiting ' (Greek prosdechomai, meaning to "look [wait] with patience", Strong's # 4237) for the "happy hope and glorious manifestation ("manifestation", Greek epiphaneia, Strong's # 2015) of the great God and of the Savior of us, Christ Jesus."

Jesus is "The Word of God" (Rev 19:13), and is called "the power of God and the wisdom of God."(1 Cor 1:24) However, Jesus is not called "the glory of God", but rather that he is a means by which God gains glory, by his conduct and powerful works, saying to Martha before Lazarus resurrection: "Did I not tell you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God ?” (John 11:40-44) The apostle Paul wrote that "every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."(Phil 2:11)

The word most often translated in Hebrew “glory” is ka·vohdh´, which basically has the sense of “heaviness," and the Greek equivalent of ka·vohdh´ is do´xa, which originally meant “opinion; reputation,” but in the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the New Testament) came to mean “glory", and has the senses of repute or “honor” (Luke 14:10), splendor (Luke 2:9; 1Cor 15:40), and that which brings honor to its owner or maker (1Cor 11:7).

In addition, Jesus is not called "The Spirit of God" at 1 John 5:6 (nor at John 14:6, 1 Peter 4:14, or 2 Cor 3:18), but rather that "this is he that came by means of water and blood, Jesus Christ...and the spirit is that which is bearing witness, because the spirit is the truth." Thus, God's holy spirit (or applied power that dispenses only truth) "is bearing witness" that Jesus "came by means of water and blood." God's holy spirit empowers individuals to speak about Jesus (Rev 12:17) and his critical role in God's eternal purpose (2 Cor 1:20) of restoring the earth to paradise conditions (Luke 23:43), with meek ones living on it.(Matt 5:5, Ps 37:29) by means of God's kingdom.(Matt 6:9, 10)

Upon his resurrection on Nisan 16, 33 C.E. Jesus again became a spirit, for the apostle Paul wrote: "It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."(1 Cor 15:45) However, Jesus was granted additional power that, before his coming to the earth he did not have, now as a "life-giving spirit".("life-giving", Greek zoopoieo, meaning "to revitalize",or "make alive", Strong's # G2227) Thus, Jesus now has the power to resurrect ("resurrection", Greek word a·na´sta·sis literally means “raising up; standing up") the masses of mankind that are waiting in Sheol (Hebrew) or Hades (Greek), the common grave of mankind.(Rev 20:13; John 11:25; compare John 5:21, 22)

 

[KingdomSeeker]

Titus 2:13 is used at times, to give support to the trinity doctrine, saying that "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (King James Bible) are one and the same. However, as has been pointed out, Titus 1:4 makes a clear distinction between "God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior." The word "and" is "a conjunction used to indicate an additional thing, situation, or fact."( Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) Thus, there are two persons being spoken of here. In addition, the Bible is not 66 separate books that are individualistic, each standing alone, but is one complete book that is harmonious, with one author, Jehovah God.

This thus compliments what the apostle Paul had said at 1 Corinthians 8:6, that "to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ."(King James Bible) A modern English translation reads of Titus 2:13: "while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus."(New World Translation)

Titus 2:13 does not say that "Jesus is the glory of God", but rather that " we " are ' waiting ' (Greek prosdechomai, meaning to "look [wait] with patience", Strong's # 4237) for the "happy hope and glorious manifestation ("manifestation", Greek epiphaneia, Strong's # 2015) of the great God and of the Savior of us, Christ Jesus."

Jesus is "The Word of God" (Rev 19:13), and is called "the power of God and the wisdom of God."(1 Cor 1:24) However, Jesus is not called "the glory of God", but rather that he is a means by which God gains glory, by his conduct and powerful works, saying to Martha before Lazarus resurrection: "Did I not tell you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God ?” (John 11:40-44) The apostle Paul wrote that "every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."(Phil 2:11)

The word most often translated in Hebrew “glory” is ka·vohdh´, which basically has the sense of “heaviness," and the Greek equivalent of ka·vohdh´ is do´xa, which originally meant “opinion; reputation,” but in the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the New Testament) came to mean “glory", and has the senses of repute or “honor” (Luke 14:10), splendor (Luke 2:9; 1Cor 15:40), and that which brings honor to its owner or maker (1Cor 11:7).

In addition, Jesus is not called "The Spirit of God" at 1 John 5:6 (nor at John 14:6, 1 Peter 4:14, or 2 Cor 3:18), but rather that "this is he that came by means of water and blood, Jesus Christ...and the spirit is that which is bearing witness, because the spirit is the truth." Thus, God's holy spirit (or applied power that dispenses only truth) "is bearing witness" that Jesus "came by means of water and blood." God's holy spirit empowers individuals to speak about Jesus (Rev 12:17) and his critical role in God's eternal purpose (2 Cor 1:20) of restoring the earth to paradise conditions (Luke 23:43), with meek ones living on it.(Matt 5:5, Ps 37:29) by means of God's kingdom.(Matt 6:9, 10)

Upon his resurrection on Nisan 16, 33 C.E. Jesus again became a spirit, for the apostle Paul wrote: "It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."(1 Cor 15:45) However, Jesus was granted additional power that, before his coming to the earth he did not have, now as a "life-giving spirit".("life-giving", Greek zoopoieo, meaning "to revitalize",or "make alive", Strong's # G2227) Thus, Jesus now has the power to resurrect ("resurrection", Greek word a·na´sta·sis literally means “raising up; standing up") the masses of mankind that are waiting in Sheol (Hebrew) or Hades (Greek), the common grave of mankind.(Rev 20:13; John 11:25; compare John 5:21, 22)

Ezekiel 43:2-3
"and behold, the glory of the God of Israel was coming from the way of the east. And His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory."

Hmm... Whos Voice was like the sound of rushing waters? The Glory of God's Voice. The Glory of God is Called a HE. And His voice sounded like many waters

Revelation 1:15
"his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters."


So... Titus 2:13 "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,"


Thats pretty much saying That Jesus IS the Glory Of God.

Also: Acts 28:25

"They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: "The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when he said through Isaiah the prophet:saying, 'GO TO THIS PEOPLE AND SAY, "YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; AND YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;" (sorry for the caps I lazily copied and pasted from Bible.cc...and The NASB has caps.)

So The Holy Spirit Said that To Their Forefathers.

Well Isaiah 6:8(which acts is quoting) Says its the "Voice of the Lord" That is The WORD of The Lord, Or The Word of God. Who Is the Word Of God?


So Thats pretty much saying that Jesus IS the Glory, AND the Spirit of God. No?

If The Word, is the Holy spirit. And JESUS is the Word, Isnt that pretty self explanitory? Or am I missing something?

 

[jiggyfly]

Hello,

I Wondered if anyone had any information on the correct translation of this verse:

"awaiting the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; "

is it "...Glory of our great God AND Saviour..."

or "...Glory of our great God, and Saviour..."

Darby, American standard, and several others dont add the comma.

KJV, Wycliffe, NIV(2010) DO have the comma.

NOw the Comma Changes EVERYTHING, especially in witnessing...so if someone can clear it up for me that would be appritiated. Jesus Bless you. -K.S.

anticipating that happy expectation, even the advent of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ Titus 2:13 Concordant Literal Translation

I did not do an exhaustive search but I found no comma.

 

[Jaareshiah]

Ezekiel 43:2-3
"and behold, the glory of the God of Israel was coming from the way of the east. And His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory."

Hmm... Whos Voice was like the sound of rushing waters? The Glory of God's Voice. The Glory of God is Called a HE. And His voice sounded like many waters

Revelation 1:15
"his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters."


So... Titus 2:13 "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,"


Thats pretty much saying That Jesus IS the Glory Of God.

Also: Acts 28:25

"They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: "The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when he said through Isaiah the prophet:saying, 'GO TO THIS PEOPLE AND SAY, "YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; AND YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;" (sorry for the caps I lazily copied and pasted from Bible.cc...and The NASB has caps.)

So The Holy Spirit Said that To Their Forefathers.

Well Isaiah 6:8(which acts is quoting) Says its the "Voice of the Lord" That is The WORD of The Lord, Or The Word of God. Who Is the Word Of God?


So Thats pretty much saying that Jesus IS the Glory, AND the Spirit of God. No?

If The Word, is the Holy spirit. And JESUS is the Word, Isnt that pretty self explanitory? Or am I missing something?

Ezekiel 43:2, 3 does not say that Jesus is "the glory of God", because of the scripture using the masculine gender, for metaphorically wisdom is spoken of by Jesus as a "woman" that has children at Luke 7:35, literally calling wisdom a "her". And the apostle Paul speaks of death "ruling as king from Adam down to Moses" at Romans 5:14. Hence, just because gender is applied to something does not make it a person, but rather personifies it, giving it human attributes, which we all have done, such as calling a car or ship "her."

Ezekiel 43, in speaking of the "glory of God coming from the east", does not describe Jesus, but rather is no different than "the glory of Jehovah (that) filled the house of Jehovah" during the inauguration of the temple by Solomon (1 Kings 8:11), or what Ezekiel saw in 612 B.C.E., that "the cherubs now lifted up their wings, and the wheels were close by them, and the glory of the God of Israel was over them, from above. And the glory of Jehovah went ascending from over the midst of the city and began to stand over the mountain that is to the east of the city"(Eze 11:22, 23), which is a further addition of Ezekiel 1 concerning the vision of God's heavenly chariot.

At Ezekiel 10:18, it says that "the glory of Jehovah proceeded to go forth from over the threshold of the house and to stand still over the cherubs, " and at Ezekiel 9:3, it says that "as regards the glory of the God of Israel, it was taken up from over the cherubs over which it happened to be to the threshold of the house," whereby Jehovah God's glory is seen as a "cloud."(Eze 10:3, 4) Hence, from the "east", a cloud-like formation was seen by Ezekiel in vision.

On the night before his death, Jesus in prayer to his Father, Jehovah God, requested to have glory he had while in heaven, saying: "I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."(John 17:4, 5)

Hence, Jesus wanted to receive the "honor" he had "before the world was," which his Father gave him for his obedience to death. The apostle Paul wrote: "For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."(Phil 2:9-11) Thus, because of Jesus unswerving loyalty, he received "honor" and in turn, this brought "honor" or "glory" to God the Father.

 

[KingdomSeeker]

Ezekiel 43:2, 3 does not say that Jesus is "the glory of God", because of the scripture using the masculine gender, for metaphorically wisdom is spoken of by Jesus as a "woman" that has children at Luke 7:35, literally calling wisdom a "her". And the apostle Paul speaks of death "ruling as king from Adam down to Moses" at Romans 5:14. Hence, just because gender is applied to something does not make it a person, but rather personifies it, giving it human attributes, which we all have done, such as calling a car or ship "her."

Ezekiel 43, in speaking of the "glory of God coming from the east", does not describe Jesus, but rather is no different than "the glory of Jehovah (that) filled the house of Jehovah" during the inauguration of the temple by Solomon (1 Kings 8:11), or what Ezekiel saw in 612 B.C.E., that "the cherubs now lifted up their wings, and the wheels were close by them, and the glory of the God of Israel was over them, from above. And the glory of Jehovah went ascending from over the midst of the city and began to stand over the mountain that is to the east of the city"(Eze 11:22, 23), which is a further addition of Ezekiel 1 concerning the vision of God's heavenly chariot.

At Ezekiel 10:18, it says that "the glory of Jehovah proceeded to go forth from over the threshold of the house and to stand still over the cherubs, " and at Ezekiel 9:3, it says that "as regards the glory of the God of Israel, it was taken up from over the cherubs over which it happened to be to the threshold of the house," whereby Jehovah God's glory is seen as a "cloud."(Eze 10:3, 4) Hence, from the "east", a cloud-like formation was seen by Ezekiel in vision.

On the night before his death, Jesus in prayer to his Father, Jehovah God, requested to have glory he had while in heaven, saying: "I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."(John 17:4, 5)

Hence, Jesus wanted to receive the "honor" he had "before the world was," which his Father gave him for his obedience to death. The apostle Paul wrote: "For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."(Phil 2:9-11) Thus, because of Jesus unswerving loyalty, he received "honor" and in turn, this brought "honor" or "glory" to God the Father.

Ok thank you