Atheists can appreciate this site too.

[jiggyfly]

You give me too much credit and your friends not enough.

Don't you think if I were baiting and playing them they'd know it? Don't you think I'd know it? And when you say "more than adequate," what do you mean?

I have seen it from the start, your not here seeking God, your here to argue your opinion and justify your position. Your obviously offended with Yahveh and Jesus. As long as you follow the forum rules you may be allowed to post but most of the people here at TJ will tire quickly of your grandiloquence. Have fun while you can.:wink:

 

[kyval82]

I never suggested it was a sin to want. I merely suggested that, as Perfection and self-sufficiency are defined as "without deficiency," to want or desire or demand or long for ANYTHING implies a lack. You can't want anything if you already have everything. It implies a deficiency. If something is self-sufficient and perfect (without deficiency), as God is, then that means it cannot possibly want, desire, demand or long for anything. If He's truly perfect and self-sufficient, then He's already got everything. He lacks nothing. Therefore, there exists no thing which He does not have. He can't possibly want anything else without ceasing to be perfect or self-sufficient. He would cease to be perfect and self-sufficient because He wants something that He does not already have...a deficiency. Something He relies on others to give Him (i.e. Worship, praise, sacrifice).

But.. God is not wanting this for Himself!! he is wanting it for us!!!! He knows that we are not perfect.. I inmagine a rich man could want for others to have what he has, but that does not make him any less righ, right/ God does have all, HE is all and is perfect, but for our sakes because we are NOT, He wants for us to be saved.






First off, if this gift were truly free, you wouldn't have to accept it. You would just have it. God created Hell and gave us an ultimatum. "Take this gift, or I'll burn you forever." God has no reason to be upset at us for exercising the free will He gave us, even if He doesn't like the outcome.

Say that you were somewhere, and someone offered you a gift, it was free, all you had to do was go get it. Now, If they have provided evrything for you, and you choose to leave without your gift, then whose fault would that be? Was not there a gift there for you, that was FREE, but if you do not get it, then you will not have it. God needs you to accept this free gift. he sent His Son to die, He offers the free gift of salvation, but we have to accept it!
It's extremely shortsighted on His part to get upset over something He had the foresight to see and the power to alter before He started the universe. Threatening me for not choosing to transfer my offenses to His Son's hide shows a gross misunderstanding of what it means to be a father in the first place.

Any good Father is going to be hurt if they see thier child doing something that could cause them harm. God is not threatening, He simply and easily gives us the choice, it is ours to make. If we accept, we will go to heaven and abide with Him, if we don't, then we will be in hell.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

Any good Father is going to be hurt if they see thier child doing something that could cause them harm. God is not threatening, He simply and easily gives us the choice, it is ours to make. If we accept, we will go to heaven and abide with Him, if we don't, then we will be in hell.

Certainly agreed, but Jesus (God's child, and self) didn't do anything wrong...correct? What are you getting at?

I also, don't yet understand how, "Do this (Accept), or I'll destroy you forever if you decline," is a choice. It still seems like more of an ultimatum.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

I have seen it from the start, your not here seeking God, your here to argue your opinion and justify your position. Your obviously offended with Yahveh and Jesus. As long as you follow the forum rules you may be allowed to post but most of the people here at TJ will tire quickly of your grandiloquence. Have fun while you can.:wink:

Jiggyfly. I have no idea what you have seen. I don't have your eyes...You doubt me, which is fine. You doubt that I am seeking God, but you give me no good reason to seek Him. I am here seeking truth, and if what you say about God is correct, the two should not be mutually exclusive. I am certainly not offended by either characters, YHWH or Jesus, as I again, have no reason to believe they even exist to offend me.

I have been more than willing to comply with the forum rules, so I'm not sure why you find it necessary to caution me to continue doing what I'm already doing...but thanks.

And "grandiloquence?!"

Fantastic word! I almost doubted it actually was one. Haha. Thank you for teaching me something new.

 

[Chad]

You doubt that I am seeking God, but you give me no good reason to seek Him

What? Why do you need another person to give you a reason to seek your Creator and GOD? This makes no sense. Did you seek another persons opinions or approvals when in school learning things?

Philippians 2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

What? Why do you need another person to give you a reason to seek your Creator and GOD? This makes no sense. Did you seek another persons opinions or approvals when in school learning things?

Philippians 2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Quite simply, because without another person expressing an explanation, I have no reason to assume I have a Creator or God aside from my own parents. My existence is not contingent on a creator or a god. I already know where I came from. A higher power is certainly not necessary...only my parents. I have no reason to seek a creator or god, because I have no reason to believe either are necessary. I, personally, cannot understand why this confounds you.


"Did seek another person's opinions or approval when in school learning things?"

Literally speaking, no...although, I think I understand what you are actually asking me...

Did I seek outside verification for what I was taught was true, while in school and learning things?

You bet your kiester, I did! And do you know why?! Because Christianity taught me that men were flawed. And so multiple witnesses/observers were necessary to confirm any given claim. Christianity provides none of the above, yet still begs it.



Sadly, your "aptly" placed bible verse means precious little without an extra-biblical reason to believe it is applicable or even true to my or anyone's life.

 

[The Robster]

Quite simply, because without another person expressing an explanation, I have no reason to assume I have a Creator or God aside from my own parents. My existence is not contingent on a creator or a god. I already know where I came from. A higher power is certainly not necessary...only my parents. I have no reason to seek a creator or god, because I have no reason to believe either are necessary. I, personally, cannot understand why this confounds you.


"Did seek another person's opinions or approval when in school learning things?"

Literally speaking, no...although, I think I understand what you are actually asking me...

Did I seek outside verification for what I was taught was true, while in school and learning things?

You bet your kiester, I did! And do you know why?! Because Christianity taught me that men were flawed. And so multiple witnesses/observers were necessary to confirm any given claim. Christianity provides none of the above, yet still begs it.



Sadly, your "aptly" placed bible verse means precious little without an extra-biblical reason to believe it is applicable or even true to my or anyone's life.

At the end of the day, faith is a choice. No one has to prove the Bible to be true and no one has to prove anything to you. You choose to believe or you don't. I know that's real deep. You really needed exposure to Christianity to learn that men were flawed? Let me guess you have more than one advanced degree?

 

[Tusk Barnes]

At the end of the day, faith is a choice. No one has to prove the Bible to be true and no one has to prove anything to you. You choose to believe or you don't. I know that's real deep. You really needed exposure to Christianity to learn that men were flawed? Let me guess you have more than one advanced degree?

Haha. A flattering guess, Robster! And I wish any prospective employers thought so too, but I have zero degrees yet. All I have to my name at the moment is that I know a lot about a little. I'm working on two bachelors, and hopefully a masters in whichever of the two I like more at the end of the day.

 

[jiggyfly]

Quite simply, because without another person expressing an explanation, I have no reason to assume I have a Creator or God aside from my own parents. My existence is not contingent on a creator or a god. I already know where I came from. A higher power is certainly not necessary...only my parents. I have no reason to seek a creator or god, because I have no reason to believe either are necessary. I, personally, cannot understand why this confounds you.

Your above statement only proves you that this forum most likely is not for you. Read the home page, this is a community for serious Christians and those who are seeking Jesus Christ. You fit into neither category, you yourself claim you are no longer a "christian" and you deny Jesus the Christ exists.

 

[DeiSponsa]

What? Why do you need another person to give you a reason to seek your Creator and GOD? This makes no sense. Did you seek another persons opinions or approvals when in school learning things?

Philippians 2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I don't think it's approval he's seeking, per-say, but more so a reason to believe that Jesus can make a difference in human lives. Sometimes we who already are established in our faith come across as elitist and it's not welcoming to those who are seeking or inquiring. Should we seek the approval of others in the pursuit of our Creator? No, not at all. I just know from personal experience that I have allowed people to create a gap between me and the Lord because of their actions and I didn't want to align myself with those who preach kindness and love but don't practice it.

Anyway, that's just what I thought when I saw your response, and thought I'd share my own opinion. Just a different perspective. *Shrug*

 

[Tusk Barnes]

Your above statement only proves you that this forum most likely is not for you. Read the home page, this is a community for serious Christians and those who are seeking Jesus Christ. You fit into neither category, you yourself claim you are no longer a "christian" and you deny Jesus the Christ exists.

But Jesus is God, yeah? And God is truth, yeah? And I'm here looking for the truth, yeah? So, by the transitive property, my search should lead me to Jesus...yeah? That is, if I find what I'm looking for.

Jiggy, I can't tell if you just want me to leave because I'm not like you...but it hurts a tad.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

I don't think it's approval he's seeking, per-say, but more so a reason to believe that Jesus can make a difference in human lives. Sometimes we who already are established in our faith come across as elitist and it's not welcoming to those who are seeking or inquiring. Should we seek the approval of others in the pursuit of our Creator? No, not at all. I just know from personal experience that I have allowed people to create a gap between me and the Lord because of their actions and I didn't want to align myself with those who preach kindness and love but don't practice it.

Anyway, that's just what I thought when I saw your response, and thought I'd share my own opinion. Just a different perspective. *Shrug*

You are brilliant.

 

[DeiSponsa]

You are brilliant.

Far from brilliant, but thanks. It just hurts to see people becoming harsh with one another over a differing opinion. That's not helpful...it pushes people away. We could all stand to look at ourselves a little more closely.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

Far from brilliant, but thanks. It just hurts to see people becoming harsh with one another over a differing opinion. That's not helpful...it pushes people away. We could all stand to look at ourselves a little more closely.

Trust me. Brilliant.

 

[DeiSponsa]

Trust me. Brilliant.

:embarasse