You will always have the poor among you

[The Robster]

Where does the Bible speak of tithing money? The only tithing I know of in Scripture is the Old Testament practice of tithing agricultural produce.

SLE

What had financial value in Abraham's day? He gave a tenth of all his INCREASE. Seems to me that we have lots of people in the 21st century engaging in self deception and pretending that their paychecks are not their INCREASE.

Hebrews 7:1-4 (Amplified Bible)


<SUP id=en-AMP-30064 class=versenum>1</SUP>FOR THIS Melchizedek, king of Salem [and] priest of the Most High God, met Abraham as he returned from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,
<SUP id=en-AMP-30065 class=versenum>2</SUP>And Abraham gave to him a tenth portion of all [the spoil]. He is primarily, as his name when translated indicates, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, which means king of peace.
<SUP id=en-AMP-30066 class=versenum>3</SUP>Without [record of] father or mother or ancestral line, neither with beginning of days nor ending of life, but, resembling the Son of God, he continues to be a priest without interruption and without successor. <SUP id=en-AMP-30067 class=versenum>4</SUP>Now observe and consider how great [a personage] this was to whom even Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth [the topmost or the pick of the heap] of the spoils.

Hebrews 7:8 (Amplified Bible)

<SUP id=en-AMP-30071 class=versenum>8</SUP>Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death; while there [in the case of Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually].

Verses 1-4 reaffirm why Abraham gave Melchy a tithe. And it was to show how great the personage of Melchy was. That was Abraham's reason for bringing a tithe. And Melchy is a typoe of Jesus. I mean he brought bread and wine. That's screams of Jesus right there. melchy's name means King of Righteousness and he was King of Jerusalem. There's no record of his parents or birth.

When you bring your tithe today you are bringing it to the High Priest of our faith, that's Jesus brother.

Verse 8 identifies very clearly that God ordained it for the tithe to be received through the church. But look at the last part of verse 8. "OF WHOM IT IS WITNESSED THAT HE LIVES." Notice how that last part refers to the TITHE being what serves as WITNESS that He lives. Communion serves as witness that Jesus died. It witnesses that the crucifixtion was a fact. The tithe witnesses to the world that Jesus lives. It recognizes He's so great. Also take notice in Genesis that after Abraham tithed, the Lord became his shield and exceedingly great reward! Abraham tihed under grace. We are tithing under grace. REJOICE because your tithe is accepted by the Lord and you are blessed for it.


Hebrews 7:5-10 (Amplified Bible)


<SUP id=en-AMP-30068 class=versenum>5</SUP>And it is true that those descendants of Levi who are charged with the priestly office are commanded in the Law to take tithes from the people--which means, from their brethren--though these have descended from Abraham.
<SUP id=en-AMP-30069 class=versenum>6</SUP>But this person who has not their Levitical ancestry received tithes from Abraham [himself] and blessed him who possessed the promises [of God].
<SUP id=en-AMP-30070 class=versenum>7</SUP>Yet it is beyond all contradiction that it is the lesser person who is blessed by the greater one.
<SUP id=en-AMP-30071 class=versenum>8</SUP>Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death; while there [in the case of Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually].
<SUP id=en-AMP-30072 class=versenum>9</SUP>A person might even say that Levi [the father of the priestly tribe] himself, who received tithes (the tenth), paid tithes through Abraham, <SUP id=en-AMP-30073 class=versenum>10</SUP>For he was still in the loins of his forefather [Abraham] when Melchizedek met him [Abraham].



Here's where it gets real awesome though. Look at verse 6. The best part of this verse is that you are Abraham's seed. You need to bless Him who had the promises. When you tithe, God blesses you, who already had the promises through Jesus Christ. When you bless the Lord, those blessings given to Abraham are unleashed! Many Christians are not blessing He who had the promises. Then Christians wonder why they don't see biblical prosperity? The Bible states that Melchizedek blessed Abraham, who already had the promises.

I believe that God is very specific about what all your increase is. Isaac and Jacob also gave a tenth of their increase. To even argue that its not referring to your income in this 21st century is just plain excuse making. The vast majority of the population does not farm nor raise cattle. You think because you don't make your money that way that this excludes you from tithing? C'mon now.

 

[Kit Carson]

The internet is most likely not a good place to discuss this one. It will go south sooner or later.

Personally I will help anyone if I can, I will give them money or just help or maybe a smile.
There will be many hard feelings about this tithing stuff as in the modern world most of us see the money just wasted, and used for personal gain by the collectors.

Dwelling in the old testament is a good trick used by the modern church and pastors to separate you from you money. Such as putting a sign up before the congregation and saying, we need this much, we collected this much , but we need this much and we do need to pay for this huge new building. Yep, or maybe one of them needs a new car, or a new suit, how about a trip to the beach out of the misc fund. ?? Sure they do deserve to be paid, but they abuse it.

We see it daily, so it does not set well.

This little statement used by all, do not judge least you be judged, is used out of place many times. We should not judge harshly or condemn but we can be wise. We do not have to ignore and tolerate and put up with it. Being wise is not standing in judgement. It is just being wise. I fear not to be me, with my own God given feelings, from anger to humor. If I am angry I temper it so it does not cause me to sin. But I can still be angry, and not like something and I can fight against it. With God blessing. I can assure you God gets angry too and I would not really want to be on the reception committee for that one.

Mis use of money by the church is so common it simply gives me a sour taste. So I will question always their motives, and right or wrong I will simply do things my way. I no longer trust other people to manage it.

Money is most likely the source of many leaving the church and forever never looking back, I almost did, I really do not like to be cheated.

But God talked to me about that, it is all cool, I have my way and I am happy, and what is for me , may not be for you. We are all different and God will deal with us all as we all need.

Just make sure they are not wasting it. Look around are they helping anyone, really? Are you sure, if not ask them. If they get mad, they have something to hide.

The modern church is a business, complete with all that goes with business, it is all about profit, money and all the sin that goes with it enters the church.

Well let me shut up, it is what it is. Always has been always will be, we are no different today than the con men of old were. Jesus will chase the modern ones out of the temple just like he did the ones of old.

It is up to us to sort it out in today's world and do the best we can. God deals with them, we see it all the time, they go down or become discredited all the time.

The shame of it is the lasting impression it leaves. That is very hard to overcome.

Kit

 

[Boanerges]

What had financial value in Abraham's day?

That my friend has absolutely nothing to do with the fact the tithing is never mentioned after the book of Acts (the birth of the church) and is never mentioned again except in reference to Christ fulfilling the Law and the priesthood (Hebrews 7) . We are under a new and better covenant than all our predecessors (before Christ's resurrection). Jesus in His earth walk was a practicing Jew and thus under the Leviticus system of tithing. I do not believe there is a single scripture telling a Christian to tithe but if you could provide one I would gladly read it.

 

[The Robster]

The internet is most likely not a good place to discuss this one. It will go south sooner or later.

Personally I will help anyone if I can, I will give them money or just help or maybe a smile.
There will be many hard feelings about this tithing stuff as in the modern world most of us see the money just wasted, and used for personal gain by the collectors.

Dwelling in the old testament is a good trick used by the modern church and pastors to separate you from you money. Such as putting a sign up before the congregation and saying, we need this much, we collected this much , but we need this much and we do need to pay for this huge new building. Yep, or maybe one of them needs a new car, or a new suit, how about a trip to the beach out of the misc fund. ?? Sure they do deserve to be paid, but they abuse it.

We see it daily, so it does not set well.

This little statement used by all, do not judge least you be judged, is used out of place many times. We should not judge harshly or condemn but we can be wise. We do not have to ignore and tolerate and put up with it. Being wise is not standing in judgement. It is just being wise. I fear not to be me, with my own God given feelings, from anger to humor. If I am angry I temper it so it does not cause me to sin. But I can still be angry, and not like something and I can fight against it. With God blessing. I can assure you God gets angry too and I would not really want to be on the reception committee for that one.

Mis use of money by the church is so common it simply gives me a sour taste. So I will question always their motives, and right or wrong I will simply do things my way. I no longer trust other people to manage it.

Money is most likely the source of many leaving the church and forever never looking back, I almost did, I really do not like to be cheated.

But God talked to me about that, it is all cool, I have my way and I am happy, and what is for me , may not be for you. We are all different and God will deal with us all as we all need.

Just make sure they are not wasting it. Look around are they helping anyone, really? Are you sure, if not ask them. If they get mad, they have something to hide.

The modern church is a business, complete with all that goes with business, it is all about profit, money and all the sin that goes with it enters the church.

Well let me shut up, it is what it is. Always has been always will be, we are no different today than the con men of old were. Jesus will chase the modern ones out of the temple just like he did the ones of old.

It is up to us to sort it out in today's world and do the best we can. God deals with them, we see it all the time, they go down or become discredited all the time.

The shame of it is the lasting impression it leaves. That is very hard to overcome.

Kit

LOL It goes south in real life too man. When it comes to Christians and their money, many just like that rich guy that came over to Jesus bragging about how he kept all the commandments but then went away devastated when Jesus told him to give his money away. Not that Jesus told us to give it all away, but many Christians just have that "cheap spirit" at work. Its not a godly attribute. People need to get rid of it.

 

[The Robster]

That my friend has absolutely nothing to do with the fact the tithing is never mentioned after the book of Acts (the birth of the church) and is never mentioned again except in reference to Christ fulfilling the Law and the priesthood (Hebrews 7) . We are under a new and better covenant than all our predecessors (before Christ's resurrection). Jesus in His earth walk was a practicing Jew and thus under the Leviticus system of tithing. I do not believe there is a single scripture telling a Christian to tithe but if you could provide one I would gladly read it.

Brother you won't find one scripture where God stated that you are not to tithe anymore or that the BLESSING for tithing was taken away from God. That's right we are under a New Covenant, a GRACE covenant just like the one that Abraham had. When tithing was put into the Law, you did not get blessed for it. If you think you did, then please show me in the Book of the Law where God blessed you for tithing. Its not in scripture. A lot of Christians think that just because a verse is in the OT that it only applies to the Old Covenant. NOT TRUE. And the challenge that the Lord issues in Malachi for tithing is not Old Covenant. I think the problem you are having is that you are keeping your mind trapped in the Law. I mean how many times does it need to be repeated that Abraham tithed before tithing was put into the Law? Abraham had a grace covenant with God. Where did He learn to tithe? Why respond with a tithe? I just showed you in Hebrews what the Holy Spirit says the tithe means. The Holy Spirit took the time to show us in Hebrews that tithe serves witness that Jesus lives! Under grace God doesn't command you to do anything other than to love our neighbors. Of course you aren't going to find a command that you are to tithe under grace. That's the language of the Law. Under grace God requests the tithe. That's a big difference between COMMANDING. We are not under Law so you are not going to find a command to tithe. You seem to be making too big of a deal that tithing isn't discussed in the Book of Acts. Well its discussed in the Book of Hebrews. What is every book in the New testament supposed to say? "Oh by the way, the early Christians brought their tithe to the Lord this month." "And Paul tithed this month. And Timothy also tithed this month and the next month after that." Things don't have to be repeated over and over again for it to be so. The Lord expects you to seek His Word out. Every story of the Bible is multi-dimensional and hides all kinds of wonderful truths. Having the mentality that the people had under the Law is a great way of not getting a blessing that belongs to you. "Where is it commanded, where is it commanded?" You have a law mentality under grace. Many jewels are hidden in scripture and you have to seek them out but they are there.

You know its interesting, since you seem to be focused on looking for a commandment to tithe under the New Covenant, Jesus told us we were to remember Him by one way. It was the way that He would be remembered affectionately. And its through Holy Communion. Paul says so right in 1 Corinthians 11 and Paul even stated that He got it straight from Jesus. Jesus never commanded us to have Communion. But He said it was the one way we were to remember Him affectionately. I do it daily but for different reasons. Many Christians do not do this daily to remember the Lord in the ONE WAY He said He wanted us to fondly remember Him. Why not? because its not commanded. But the Lord requests it. And you know what brother, people certainly have not searched the scriptures regarding Communion and why the Lord instituted the Lord's Supper on the day of Passover. When we partake the Lord's Supper in faith, we receive Jesus' supernatural health and wholeness. Its not a ritual as so many Christians have turned it into. And because its not commanded by Jesus that we are to partake in the Lord's Supper, many haven't even cared to search the scriptures on Communion and see why Paul got so ticked off with the Corinthians because of the manner in which they were taking the Lord's Supper. They were robbing themselves of one of the greatest blessings Jesus ever gave us. His perfect health and wholeness!!! Now you know its not COMMANDED that we partake in the Lord's Supper, Jesus just requests it and there is good reason why He requests it. Life and death reasons. And you know what, there's a blessing at the Lord's Supper for those who take it in faith and understand the scriptures pertaining to the Lord's Supper. Read John 6 closely, Jesus reaffirms what we would receive at the Lord's Supper. Just like tithing, which is NOT COMMANDED by Jesus, has its blessing hidden in it. You're robbing yourself of the blessing brother. Many Christians are not doing what the Word tells them to do and see tithing and Communion as just rituals or schemes to bilk them of their money. The devil has done a very good job of robbing Christians of their blessing from tithing and the Lord's Supper. And yes tithing and Communion certainly go hand in hand. Communion proclaims to the world that Jesus' death was a fact. And tithing proclaims to the world that He lives. And anything you put in Jesus' hands always get multiplied. He's the High Priest of our faith, with us being priests as well on this planet. Melchizedek bringing wine and bread to Abraham is just a shadow of what we have the substance of under Jesus during this period of grace. Don't miss out brother! The man made world financial system is failing and you need to be invested in God's bullet proof financial system which is thing and "sowing and reaping." Your harvest will always be so much more than the seed you sowed. And who doesn't want the added bonus of God rebuking the devil and telling him to get his hands off all your stuff. When you give God your tenth, your first fruits of your increase, your 90% is holy. What is holy the devil can not touch. The tenth, is the whole to God. The Lord will never cheat any of His children. If you believe that everything you have is from the Lord and you received it because He gave you power to get wealth, then how can any believer make excuses why not to give Him his tenth? But hey, if you don't have revelation in this area I do agree that you shouldn't tithe. It shouldn't be done because other Christians are doing it or because its out of guilt. You should do it with a spirit of grace and should want to tithe to proclaim that Jesus is resurrected and so great! Everyone that tithes isn't a tither. And God always reserves his best for those that are humble and trust His Word and that He will do as He has promised. Give that stupid devil a good kick because I'm sure he's telling you, "All the church wants is your money."

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Tithing in Faith, Love and Righteousness

I Want You to Prosper: Tithing in Faith, Love and Righteousness
What does it mean to tithe according to the Word? Let me refresh your thinking concerning the statement Jesus made on this subject. He said;"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment (righteousness), mercy (love), and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone (Matthew 23:23)."
Addressing the religious people of the day, Jesus said that they tithed their money but they neglected the important matters of the heart. With this thought in mind, we can expand our definition and say that tithing is bringing the first tenth to Jesus, according to His Word, by faith, in love, through righteousness.
Righteousness, love and faith are directly related to one another. Faith works by love (Galatians 5:6), and righteousness is by faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22). Therefore, these three cannot be separated. When we tithe, we need to be mindful of all these areas.
Tithing by Faith
Let’s look at tithing from the level of “faith first” by studying Genesis 4:1-8; "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
"And in the process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord." (vs. 3)
"And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? And why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
This incident in Genesis, chapter four occurred at the time of harvest which also coincided with the birth of the lambs. For years, I heard that God would not receive Cain’s offering because he didn’t bring a lamb. But, that isn’t so. Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground unto the Lord. It wasn’t the offering that was the problem. It is impossible to please God without faith. Notice verse three, God had no respect for Cain. When God rebuked him, instead of changing, he got mad and his countenance fell. Cain was out of line with the Word. A man and his offering are one. The offering is nothing without the man.
Hebrews 11:4 tells us that Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice by faith. Faith is a product of the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Obviously, both Cain and Abel had heard the Word. Their own father received it personally from the Creator Himself. I’m satisfied that the revelation which they received was the knowledge that the whole earth belonged to God and they (who were given the use of the earth) were to tithe a tenth of it back to God (Leviticus 27:30; Psalms 24:1; Haggai 2:8). Abel was eager to see that God received His. Cain was not. That’s why God couldn’t accept Cain and his offering.
The New King James Version says it much more plainly;"But (God) did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell. So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”
How could he do well? By staying with the Word. Satan was at the door, lying in wait to steal the Word from his heart. Cain only needed to resist the devil so that his faith would not fail.
Do you remember what Jesus told Peter? He said, “Satan has tried to sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith fail not.” Sin was at Cain’s door. The King James Version calls sin “him.” Sin and Satan are the same.
The scripture tells us to give Satan “no place.” Cain would have done well not to have given the devil place through his disobedience and anger. But he did and the result was the death of his brother. No wonder the church has fought over the tithe--the first murder was committed over it.
As the New Testament church, we cannot afford disobedience either. But sin and the hundredfold blessing of God lie at the door. We are the only ones with the authority to let one or the other in. This is one of the reasons that we have been robbed financially.
Tithing Righteously
The next illustration is tithing with judgment or justice. The story is from Genesis, chapter 14.
A group of kings joined forces and trapped the king of Sodom to exploit him, his goods and the goods of all of his subjects. Among the people who were taken captive was Abram’s nephew.
When Abram heard the news, he armed 318 trained servants and pursued the kings’ armies to the death. They slaughtered them and took the spoils. The first thing Abram did was tithe the spoils. Melchizedek, the priest, blessed Abram and said; "Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all."
The king whose goods had been stolen greedily watched Abram, thinking that he was going to keep all of the spoil. He wanted some of it back. After all, it belonged to him before those armies came in and stole it.
He went to Abram and said; "Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lifted up mind hand unto the Lord, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth. That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich."
What was Abram saying? Permit me to paraphrase it to make it easier to understand. I believe he was saying, “I’ve lifted my hand to God; I have made a covenant with Him. I promised when I tithed the spoils that I wouldn’t even take one of your shoestrings, lest you say that you are the one that made me rich.” Abram judged himself according to his covenant with God. He made sure he did “the right thing”--not just the easy or convenient thing.
The next time you approach the tithing altar, realize that Jesus your High Priest is standing there. Judge yourself according to the Word of God. Test your heart and your motives. Don’t just tithe and neglect the weightier matter of justice. Abram did what was right and just. He tithed righteously, not selfishly. Abram is our example.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Pt 2

The Matter of Mercy
Mercy is the last area that Jesus mentioned in Matthew 23:23 concerning how we ought to tithe. The word translated “mercy” is sometimes translated “love.” The believer who says that he cannot afford to tithe is not only operating without faith, he is out of line with judgement because he has forsaken the house of God.
Read Nehemiah 10:38,39 and you will see what I mean; "And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, unto the treasure house. For the children of Israel and the children of Levi shall bring the offering of the corn, of the new wine, and the oil, unto the chambers, where are the vessels of the sanctuary, and the priests that minister, and the porters, and the singers: and we will not forsake the house of our God.
To attend church every Sunday and always be on the receiving end and never on the giving end is selfish. The person who does this has forgotten the weightier matter of mercy and love. Love gives. To withhold the tithe is to forsake the household of God.
Who Receives the Tithe?
Jesus is the High Priest over the house of God in the New Testament. In the spirit, He receives our tithes and presents them to the Father in heaven. But who receives them here on earth?
II Chronicles 31:4,5 says that the priests and Levites, or the ministry, received the tithe that they might be encouraged. This is not an issue that we can handle lightly. As the Head of the church, Jesus is the One who should be directing where the tithe should go. The proper way to handle it is to pray and ask Him where to put it.
Under the Old Covenant, the tithe was brought mainly into the temple in Jerusalem and the local synagogue. In the New Testament, the local church is the backbone of the body of Christ. Malachi 3:10 tells us, Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. Meat is spiritual revelation. Wherever you are receiving revelation, that is where your tithe should go. You receive mostly from your own church, that is, if it is preaching the uncompromised Word.
But let us also notice that Paul said that the church at Philippi supported him. As an apostle, he traveled extensively ministering the Word. If there is a ministry which has fed you spiritual meat and you want part of your tithe to go there, you ought to be able to make note of that when you bring your tithe check into the local church.
I received a check from a church in Houston, Texas, one day and I thought, “I wonder why they’re sending me a check?” Later, I found out that the pastor had told the congregation, “If you are bringing your tithe today and there is a specific ministry which has fed you spiritually outside this church, just make a note of it and we will see that they receive a check.” That pastor is receiving the tithe in love and faith and righteousness. The people are giving it that way as well.
God is looking for a people who will handle their tithing as holy. He is seeking those who will ask Jesus where He wants His money to go. Are you one whom the Father can trust? Will you allow Jesus to direct your giving? If you are, God will open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing so rich, so abundant that you will not be able to contain it!
Let me provide you with a sample confession for your tithe based on Deuteronomy 26. First read that entire chapter. Then relate it to the New Testament and hold your tithe before the Lord as you say out loud:
"We profess this day unto the Lord God that we have come into the inheritance which the Lord swore to give us. We are in the land which You have provided for us in Jesus Christ, the kingdom of Almighty God (Colossians 1:13). We were sinners serving Satan; he was our god, but we called upon the name of Jesus and You heard our cry and delivered us from the power and authority of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of Your dear Son."
"Jesus, as our Lord and High Priest, we bring the firstfruits of our income to You and worship the Lord our God with it. We rejoice in all the good which You have given to us and our household. We have hearkened to the voice of the Lord our God and have done according to all that He has commanded us. Now look down from Your holy habitation from heaven and bless us as You said in Deuteronomy 26:14,15 and Malachi 3:10,11."

 

[Hekuran]

Ummm.... I just ignore the poverty parts...... God did not design his Children to be poor..............

And any scripture is of great benefit... You just got your doctrine in the way and missed the multiply your seed sown scriptures.... So, thought you might need help there.......

Jesus is Lord.

Great! Please may I ignore all the bits of the Bible that deal with sin and judgement, as sin is not God's intention for us either!

My post did not contain any doctrine. I simply copied out every word I could find that Jesus spoke about riches and poverty. Jesus' words speak for themselves.

If your doctrine does not sit easily with what Jesus says, then it may be time for a review, don't you think?

 

[jiggyfly]

Brother you won't find one scripture where God stated that you are not to tithe anymore or that the BLESSING for tithing was taken away from God. That's right we are under a New Covenant, a GRACE covenant just like the one that Abraham had. When tithing was put into the Law, you did not get blessed for it. If you think you did, then please show me in the Book of the Law where God blessed you for tithing. Its not in scripture. A lot of Christians think that just because a verse is in the OT that it only applies to the Old Covenant. NOT TRUE. And the challenge that the Lord issues in Malachi for tithing is not Old Covenant. I think the problem you are having is that you are keeping your mind trapped in the Law. I mean how many times does it need to be repeated that Abraham tithed before tithing was put into the Law? Abraham had a grace covenant with God. Where did He learn to tithe? Why respond with a tithe? I just showed you in Hebrews what the Holy Spirit says the tithe means. The Holy Spirit took the time to show us in Hebrews that tithe serves witness that Jesus lives! Under grace God doesn't command you to do anything other than to love our neighbors. Of course you aren't going to find a command that you are to tithe under grace. That's the language of the Law. Under grace God requests the tithe. That's a big difference between COMMANDING. We are not under Law so you are not going to find a command to tithe. You seem to be making too big of a deal that tithing isn't discussed in the Book of Acts. Well its discussed in the Book of Hebrews. What is every book in the New testament supposed to say? "Oh by the way, the early Christians brought their tithe to the Lord this month." "And Paul tithed this month. And Timothy also tithed this month and the next month after that." Things don't have to be repeated over and over again for it to be so. The Lord expects you to seek His Word out. Every story of the Bible is multi-dimensional and hides all kinds of wonderful truths. Having the mentality that the people had under the Law is a great way of not getting a blessing that belongs to you. "Where is it commanded, where is it commanded?" You have a law mentality under grace. Many jewels are hidden in scripture and you have to seek them out but they are there.

You know its interesting, since you seem to be focused on looking for a commandment to tithe under the New Covenant, Jesus told us we were to remember Him by one way. It was the way that He would be remembered affectionately. And its through Holy Communion. Paul says so right in 1 Corinthians 11 and Paul even stated that He got it straight from Jesus. Jesus never commanded us to have Communion. But He said it was the one way we were to remember Him affectionately. I do it daily but for different reasons. Many Christians do not do this daily to remember the Lord in the ONE WAY He said He wanted us to fondly remember Him. Why not? because its not commanded. But the Lord requests it. And you know what brother, people certainly have not searched the scriptures regarding Communion and why the Lord instituted the Lord's Supper on the day of Passover. When we partake the Lord's Supper in faith, we receive Jesus' supernatural health and wholeness. Its not a ritual as so many Christians have turned it into. And because its not commanded by Jesus that we are to partake in the Lord's Supper, many haven't even cared to search the scriptures on Communion and see why Paul got so ticked off with the Corinthians because of the manner in which they were taking the Lord's Supper. They were robbing themselves of one of the greatest blessings Jesus ever gave us. His perfect health and wholeness!!! Now you know its not COMMANDED that we partake in the Lord's Supper, Jesus just requests it and there is good reason why He requests it. Life and death reasons. And you know what, there's a blessing at the Lord's Supper for those who take it in faith and understand the scriptures pertaining to the Lord's Supper. Read John 6 closely, Jesus reaffirms what we would receive at the Lord's Supper. Just like tithing, which is NOT COMMANDED by Jesus, has its blessing hidden in it. You're robbing yourself of the blessing brother. Many Christians are not doing what the Word tells them to do and see tithing and Communion as just rituals or schemes to bilk them of their money. The devil has done a very good job of robbing Christians of their blessing from tithing and the Lord's Supper. And yes tithing and Communion certainly go hand in hand. Communion proclaims to the world that Jesus' death was a fact. And tithing proclaims to the world that He lives. And anything you put in Jesus' hands always get multiplied. He's the High Priest of our faith, with us being priests as well on this planet. Melchizedek bringing wine and bread to Abraham is just a shadow of what we have the substance of under Jesus during this period of grace. Don't miss out brother! The man made world financial system is failing and you need to be invested in God's bullet proof financial system which is thing and "sowing and reaping." Your harvest will always be so much more than the seed you sowed. And who doesn't want the added bonus of God rebuking the devil and telling him to get his hands off all your stuff. When you give God your tenth, your first fruits of your increase, your 90% is holy. What is holy the devil can not touch. The tenth, is the whole to God. The Lord will never cheat any of His children. If you believe that everything you have is from the Lord and you received it because He gave you power to get wealth, then how can any believer make excuses why not to give Him his tenth? But hey, if you don't have revelation in this area I do agree that you shouldn't tithe. It shouldn't be done because other Christians are doing it or because its out of guilt. You should do it with a spirit of grace and should want to tithe to proclaim that Jesus is resurrected and so great! Everyone that tithes isn't a tither. And God always reserves his best for those that are humble and trust His Word and that He will do as He has promised. Give that stupid devil a good kick because I'm sure he's telling you, "All the church wants is your money."

Got any scripture that states God required a tithe from anyone outside of Israel?

The necessity to give a tenth under the new covenant is a deception with no scriptural foundation. Most who tithe today are even ignorant of the scriptural tithe under the old covenant.

Giving and sharing what we have with others is a whole other topic and we have many scriptures directing us under the new covenant but the tithe is not part of the new covenant.

Paul said; "You must each make up your own mind as to how much you should give. Don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. For God loves the person who gives cheerfully."

 

[The Robster]

Got any scripture that states God required a tithe from anyone outside of Israel?

The necessity to give a tenth under the new covenant is a deception with no scriptural foundation. Most who tithe today are even ignorant of the scriptural tithe under the old covenant.

Giving and sharing what we have with others is a whole other topic and we have many scriptures directing us under the new covenant but the tithe is not part of the new covenant.

Paul said; "You must each make up your own mind as to how much you should give. Don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. For God loves the person who gives cheerfully."

Got any scripture that tithing was commanded to stop? Of course not. Hey if you want to keep robbing from the Lord and missing out then that's your business. I won't do that.

 

[Hekuran]

ping - pong - ping - pong - ping - pong

I grew up understanding that tithing was a Christian duty, and accordingly gave 10 per cent. I no longer believe that the commandment stands, but still give. Church leaders have a right to ask us to give genorously; they also have a duty to be accountable to us - and God - for the way the money is spent.

God is revealed through his law - it has generosity built into its very fabric. Even though the law is not still binding, the God of the Old Testament is the same as the God of the New Testament.

Surely the final word on giving - tithed or otherwise - should go to Jesus. Remember that Jesus frequently told people who wanted to follow him that they should sell everything and give to the poor.

Mark 12:41-44​

 

[The Robster]

ping - pong - ping - pong - ping - pong

I grew up understanding that tithing was a Christian duty, and accordingly gave 10 per cent. I no longer believe that the commandment stands, but still give. Church leaders have a right to ask us to give genorously; they also have a duty to be accountable to us - and God - for the way the money is spent.

God is revealed through his law - it has generosity built into its very fabric. Even though the law is not still binding, the God of the Old Testament is the same as the God of the New Testament.

Surely the final word on giving - tithed or otherwise - should go to Jesus. Remember that Jesus frequently told people who wanted to follow him that they should sell everything and give to the poor.

Mark 12:41-44
​

Abraham didn't tithe because He was commanded by God to tithe. He tithed because it was a well known principle in his day that if you gave someone a tenth of your increase, you were saying that person was GREAT! And when you tithe under grace, not only are you saying that Jesus is GREAT, but you bear witness to this world that He LIVES. Its plainly stated in Hebrews. Christians have all kinds of justifications why they won't give the Lord what is His. It shows where a Christians heart is when they don't give to the Lord what the Lord says belongs to Him and it shows very little trust in God. Tithing is one way in which you honor God. And most of what Christians are giving to God is not even a tip. That's right the God of the OT is the same as the NT. Under grace in the OT, Abraham tithed to Melchizedek to honor God for His victory. He didn't do it out of duty or because of commandment. It was done out of the spirit of grace. And Abraham also knew that God promised to make Him always prosperous. He wasn't one bit worried about what He was giving to Melchizedek because he knew that he was rich. God's primise was as good as gold. Many Christians don't seem to believe that Jesus made them rich at the Cross. This povery mentality and cheap spirit that so many Christians have is not godly at all.

Under Law, you had to tithe and there was no blessing for it. It was the Law and you had to do it whether you wanted to or not. And what have we been living under for the past 2000 years? A GRACE covenant, not a Law Covenant. Abraham didn't need a law to tithe to the High Priest of His day, Melchizedek, WHO CAME TO HIM WITH BREAD AND WINE AND BLESSED ABRAHAM. And all Abraham did was bring him a tithe and he gets blessed. But what is truly awesome is that after Abraham tithed, the Lord became HIS SHIELD AND EXCEEDINGLY GREAT REWARD! Jesus is our High Priest today, from the order of Melchizedek. Yet so many Christians are not honoring Him by bringing Him a tithe. That's why so many Christians don't see the Abrahamic blessings in their life. They are not blessing Him who had the promises. All throughout the OT we have types of Jesus and shadows of what Jesus would do. The Abraham/Melchizedek shadow under grace is for the age of grace in the NT. The Holy Spirit even made it a point to tell us in the NT that the money of the world is still under a curse. Tithing does so many things. One being it redeems your money from the curse. Everything God has us do makes perfect sense! Yet many of us are just hearing the Word and not doing what it tells us to do.

 

[jiggyfly]

Got any scripture that tithing was commanded to stop? Of course not. Hey if you want to keep robbing from the Lord and missing out then that's your business. I won't do that.

Why would I need any scripture to stop something that was never started? Do you read the scriptures or just commentary? What do you actually know about tithing scripturally? Post a list of all the scriptures that are connected tithing and let's see if your correct.:wink:

 

[jiggyfly]

Abraham didn't tithe because He was commanded by God to tithe. He tithed because it was a well known principle in his day that if you gave someone a tenth of your increase, you were saying that person was GREAT! And when you tithe under grace, not only are you saying that Jesus is GREAT, but you bear witness to this world that He LIVES. Its plainly stated in Hebrews. Christians have all kinds of justifications why they won't give the Lord what is His. It shows where a Christians heart is when they don't give to the Lord what the Lord says belongs to Him and it shows very little trust in God. Tithing is one way in which you honor God. And most of what Christians are giving to God is not even a tip. That's right the God of the OT is the same as the NT. Under grace in the OT, Abraham tithed to Melchizedek to honor God for His victory. He didn't do it out of duty or because of commandment. It was done out of the spirit of grace. And Abraham also knew that God promised to make Him always prosperous. He wasn't one bit worried about what He was giving to Melchizedek because he knew that he was rich. God's primise was as good as gold. Many Christians don't seem to believe that Jesus made them rich at the Cross. This povery mentality and cheap spirit that so many Christians have is not godly at all.

Under Law, you had to tithe and there was no blessing for it. It was the Law and you had to do it whether you wanted to or not. And what have we been living under for the past 2000 years? A GRACE covenant, not a Law Covenant. Abraham didn't need a law to tithe to the High Priest of His day, Melchizedek, WHO CAME TO HIM WITH BREAD AND WINE AND BLESSED ABRAHAM. And all Abraham did was bring him a tithe and he gets blessed. But what is truly awesome is that after Abraham tithed, the Lord became HIS SHIELD AND EXCEEDINGLY GREAT REWARD! Jesus is our High Priest today, from the order of Melchizedek. Yet so many Christians are not honoring Him by bringing Him a tithe. That's why so many Christians don't see the Abrahamic blessings in their life. They are not blessing Him who had the promises. All throughout the OT we have types of Jesus and shadows of what Jesus would do. The Abraham/Melchizedek shadow under grace is for the age of grace in the NT. The Holy Spirit even made it a point to tell us in the NT that the money of the world is still under a curse. Tithing does so many things. One being it redeems your money from the curse. Everything God has us do makes perfect sense! Yet many of us are just hearing the Word and not doing what it tells us to do.

First of all according to the scriptures how many times did Abraham tithe? Was it a tenth of all he had? Who did he give a tenth to? What did it consist of?


The text in Hebrews you quoted is not about tithing it is about priesthood. Your misunderstanding the context. Maybe it would be better for you to start an new thread on tithing or post on one of the many already started so we wont derail this thread any further.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

First of all according to the scriptures how many times did Abraham tithe? Was it a tenth of all he had? Who did he give a tenth to? What did it consist of?


The text in Hebrews you quoted is not about tithing it is about priesthood. Your misunderstanding the context. Maybe it would be better for you to start an new thread on tithing or post on one of the many already started so we wont derail this thread any further.

Hmm Jigger Read Hebrews 7 again. Its not about priesthood. Its about the tithe.

But!! If you don't want to tithe, or give ten percent. Then don't. God only wants you to give out of love, not duty

 

[jiggyfly]

Hmm Jigger Read Hebrews 7 again. Its not about priesthood. Its about the tithe.

But!! If you don't want to tithe, or give ten percent. Then don't. God only wants you to give out of love, not duty

What a ludicrous statement. Homer how many times is tithe or a tenth mentioned in Hebrews and how many times is priest and priesthood mentioned?

 

[El Hombre viejo]

What a ludicrous statement. Homer how many times is tithe or a tenth mentioned in Hebrews and how many times is priest and priesthood mentioned?

OK You're talking about the entire book? Its about covenant. All of it

 

[jiggyfly]

OK You're talking about the entire book? Its about covenant. All of it

No I'm talking about Hebrews chapter 7. Seems I left off the chapter sorry. So lets see if what you say is true.:wink:

 

[The Robster]

First of all according to the scriptures how many times did Abraham tithe? Was it a tenth of all he had? Who did he give a tenth to? What did it consist of?


The text in Hebrews you quoted is not about tithing it is about priesthood. Your misunderstanding the context. Maybe it would be better for you to start an new thread on tithing or post on one of the many already started so we wont derail this thread any further.

This thread isn't derailed one bit. Tithing and prosperity and the curse of poverty is all tied together. We're talking about why we have poor people and why some people are always going to be poor and why some Christians are poor right? What do you mean how many times did Abraham tithe? Abraham always gave a tenth of his increase. Is every chapter supposed to say at the end, "Oh by the way, Abraham also tithed this month. And Abraham also tithed the month after that." We know Abraham always tithed because Isaac tithed and Jacob tithed. Where did they learn to practice tithing? Grandfather Abraham.

Hebrews 7:1-10 and verse 8 do way more than just talk about the priesthood. They explain what tithing represents, how even Levi benefitted from tithes bnrought by Abraham, which reaffirms how even your descendants are blessed from your tithing and of course the Holy Spirit lays it out how the Lord receives the tithes. Mortal men receive it through the church and the Lord receives it in Heaven. Don't be so disingenious by simplifying that those 10 verses just talk about the priesthood because they go into remarkable detail about the aforementioned things I just mentioned.


Hebrews 7:1-4 (Amplified Bible)


<SUP id=en-AMP-30064 class=versenum>1</SUP>FOR THIS Melchizedek, king of Salem [and] priest of the Most High God, met Abraham as he returned from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,
<SUP id=en-AMP-30065 class=versenum>2</SUP>And Abraham gave to him a tenth portion of all [the spoil]. He is primarily, as his name when translated indicates, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, which means king of peace.
<SUP id=en-AMP-30066 class=versenum>3</SUP>Without [record of] father or mother or ancestral line, neither with beginning of days nor ending of life, but, resembling the Son of God, he continues to be a priest without interruption and without successor. <SUP id=en-AMP-30067 class=versenum>4</SUP>Now observe and consider how great [a personage] this was to whom even Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth [the topmost or the pick of the heap] of the spoils.


Hebrews 7:5-10 (Amplified Bible)


<SUP id=en-AMP-30068 class=versenum>5</SUP>And it is true that those descendants of Levi who are charged with the priestly office are commanded in the Law to take tithes from the people--which means, from their brethren--though these have descended from Abraham.
<SUP id=en-AMP-30069 class=versenum>6</SUP>But this person who has not their Levitical ancestry received tithes from Abraham [himself] and blessed him who possessed the promises [of God].
<SUP id=en-AMP-30070 class=versenum>7</SUP>Yet it is beyond all contradiction that it is the lesser person who is blessed by the greater one.
<SUP id=en-AMP-30071 class=versenum>8</SUP>Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death; while there [in the case of Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually].
<SUP id=en-AMP-30072 class=versenum>9</SUP>A person might even say that Levi [the father of the priestly tribe] himself, who received tithes (the tenth), paid tithes through Abraham, <SUP id=en-AMP-30073 class=versenum>10</SUP>For he was still in the loins of his forefather [Abraham] when Melchizedek met him [Abraham].


Abraham blessed him who had the promises. Many Christians are not blessing Him who had the promises under grace. Jesus is the High Priest of our faith, not Melchizedek. Why are Christians not bringing Jesus His tithe? Why are Christians not honoring the Lord with their posessions? Then Christians wonder why they don't see the blessings of Abraham, despite being the seed of Abraham? The Lord has said PLENTY about how we honor Him and how we better be faithful with our unrighteous money. Tothing is not some whole other seperate topic. We have countless Christians who go to churches, don't bring their tithes, get spiritually fed at those churches and don't give God His first fruits. Its more than just wrong, its costing people their blessing for tithing. Its not acceptable according to the Lord's Word, especially if you are a "mature" Christian and know what the Word says on this topic.


Proverbs 3:9-10 (New King James Version)

<SUP id=en-NKJV-16465 class=versenum>9</SUP> Honor the LORD with your possessions,
And with the firstfruits of all your increase;
<SUP id=en-NKJV-16466 class=versenum>10</SUP> So your barns will be filled with plenty,
And your vats will overflow with new wine.




Luke 16:10-12 Amplified Bible

<SUP>10</SUP>He who is faithful in a very little [thing] is faithful also in much, and he who is dishonest and unjust in a very little [thing] is dishonest and unjust also in much.

<SUP id=en-AMP-25630 class=versenum>11</SUP>Therefore if you have not been faithful in the [case of] unrighteous mammon (<SUP class=footnote value='[i]'>[i]</SUP>deceitful riches, money, possessions), who will entrust to you the true riches? <SUP id=en-AMP-25631 class=versenum>12</SUP>And if you have not proved faithful in that which belongs to another [whether God or man], who will give you that which is your own [that is, <SUP class=footnote value='[j]'>[j]</SUP>the true riches]?


Very sobering words from the Lord. many Christians have it backwards. They want the true riches FIRST then want to be faithful with their money. Its upside down. God's "sowing and reaping" principle and His tithing plan is bullet proof and Christians failing to invest in His unshakeable financial system are going to continue to get frustrated and wonder why they aren't seeing the blessings of Abraham. If you truly have a spirit of grace, it should not be hard at all to bring the Lord a tithe or offering. If you truly trust the Lord, as so many Christians claim, then this is a no brainer. But this "poverty mentality" and "cheap spirit" is prevalent within the Body of Christ today. Faith needs to be developed in this area. Everything God tells us to do comes with a blessing! The same thing goes with Communion. The Lord did not command us to have Communion but stated that its the one way we remember Him affectionately. But even more so, its how Jesus' supernatural health and wholeness is delivered into our bodies. Communion is not commanded, so rather than Christians taking it every day they reduce Communion to a ritual because Jesus did not issue a COMMAND to do it and rarely take it or the way it was intended to be taken. The early church observed the Lord's Supper every day. they knew what Jesus meant when He said this is my body and this is my blood. So many Christians are just shunning these blessings and walking in the natural and the realm of reasoning and they are in return living below their privilges. This definitely has to be grieving the Lord a great deal.

Through Communion we remember the Lord's death and proclaim it as fact and have our Covenant meal with Him. Through tithing, we bless Him who had the promises and proclaim to the world that He lives and that He is so GREAT! And the blessings of Abraham get released like a tsunami. The Body of Christ would be in much better shape if we just did what the Word instrcuts us to do.

 

[The Robster]

What a ludicrous statement. Homer how many times is tithe or a tenth mentioned in Hebrews and how many times is priest and priesthood mentioned?

How many times does God have to repeat something in the Bible for someone to take notice and grasp that its important? I only need to hear it once.