Evil...!

[gleonard]

Is everything that happens in this world that is bad the work of satan?

In church today the sermon was about faith and they said that even the most random things that make you mad are "evil" at work. Like if you get in a car accident, is that evil? Or is that just life? Or if you get sick... is that satan? Or is that just life?

Just wondering... thanks!!

I really don't really believe that everything that happens in this world that is bad is the work of satan.

I feel that the Bible emphasizes that we all have personal responsibility. For example:

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. [2 Cor. 5:10]

For he is *God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. [Romans 13:4]

*God's servant: governing authorities, an attorney general, the police etc.

There are many other verses that speak of the same thing.

The two above verse show personal responsibility towards both the Christian [2 Cor. 5:10] and also the non Christian [Romans 13:4].

When a person is attributed with personal responsibility (in the sense of responsibility towards good) it is implied that the person is faithful to carry out the responsibilities that he has been assigned (whether from God of from governing authorities). If the person is not faithful to his responsibilities then he breaks his repsonsibilities and as a result much "bad" can result. But in such cases we cannot always say that "the devil made me do it" -or- "the devil did it". God let's us choose by way of our on free will and unfortunately we, at times, choose very badly which results in a lot of negative things that affect both ouselves personally and others.

When we are born into this world - our society assigns us automatically responsibilty in front of our governing authorities and by way of the law of the land.

When we are re-born into the family of God through the merit of Jesus Christ we are also given responsibilities by way of the Holy Spirit who is our new governing authority.

As Christians we are taught that we need to respect our responsibilities before both - the governing authorities and the Holy Spirit.

:dirol:

 

[jiggyfly]

Is everything that happens in this world that is bad the work of satan?

In church today the sermon was about faith and they said that even the most random things that make you mad are "evil" at work. Like if you get in a car accident, is that evil? Or is that just life? Or if you get sick... is that satan? Or is that just life?

Just wondering... thanks!!

I posted this same scripture to you in another thread but seems to fit here as well.

While Jesus was here on earth, he offered prayers and pleadings, with a loud cry and tears, to the one who could deliver him out of death. And God heard his prayers because of his reverence for God. So even though Jesus was God's Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. In this way, God qualified him as a perfect High Priest, and he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him. And God designated him to be a High Priest in the line of Melchizedek. Hebrews 5:7-10

 

[jiggyfly]

Short answer: YES, if it's bad it cannot be of (from) the Father. However, nothing bad ever happens that God did not allow to happen. What is the distinction? Consider Job 1:8-22. God did not initiate the calamities against Job but he knew Satan would be doing them. Satan is doing this to us all the time, God knows of it and allows it. It is our responsibility to know where it comes from, to "not curse God and die," and praise God for all circumstances we find ourselves in. 2Cor 12:10 sums it up nicely.



El Hombre: While your answer has some truth, i.e., correcting by His word, not blaming God, and God is love, the remainder of your comment is not borne out by scripture.

The Israelites wandered in the desert 40 years as punishment for the unbelief they registered after the report from the 12 spies. All but two of the generation lead into the desert out of Egypt by Moses died there. That may not be sickness or financial devastation but certainly is painful circumstances.

Again, David's first son by Bathsheeba, was allowed to die after birth because of David's sin of murder and adultery. David writhed in agony for several days because of this suffering.

By saying "he never inflicts us with painful circumstances," is contrary to what the scriptures tell us. Look at the persecutions and deaths of John the Baptist, Stephen, Paul, or any of the 12 apostles. Those guys were inflicted to death. Did they deserve it? Probably not, but by their endurance, they and we have ALL learned a great deal. If I were to guess, I would say that was the greater purpose.

I appreciate your belief that the scripture is useful in correcting, rebuking, etc., but you must understand God doesn't limit his discipline to just his Word.

IMHO,
just-a-servant

Very good post J-A-S. Seems many are ignorant of God's intentions toward the flesh. If the flesh and the Spirit are opponents then increasing the flesh's comfort will not produce spiritual growth and maturity but rather hinder such growth. So what the flesh calls "good" and "bad" is not going to be the same as how God sees them. I believe this is what Paul refers to as being "carnally minded" and they error because they lack spiritual understanding and maturity.

 

[just-a-servant]

I don't know where you got that translation my friend but it's backward. Credendo Vedes means "In Believing You See"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=credendo+vides&go=Go

Probably the same place you got yours; Google, although I chose not to use the wikipedia translation which you do.

The translation's meaning I used was attributed to the act of the disciple Thomas, whom we all know doubted the resurrection until he saw the evidence. Thus the term "seeing is believing."

I much prefer your definition, "In believing you see." I'm just not sure of it's accuracy. Anyway, if we agree on your translation, we have no argument over the substance of the posts here. However, if mine is used, there is a serious disagreement.

Can you still say:

God corrects us by His Word not by slapping us with some sickness or financial devastation. He never inflicts us with painful circumstances.
One cannot blame God for our getting a result for our actions. This world is based on causality. Gods Word is based on, and is LOVE

Try looking at God and the way He teaches us through love. No sane parent would inflict suffering and disease etc on their children just to teach them.

... and mean it based on the examples from scripture I gave? There are many more I could give but, you still haven't given any to support your thesis.

I appreciated your first post in this thread:

Yes. Every good thing is from above. Conversely every bad thing is from the enemy.

It was dead on. I think you deviated from it as you expressed your opinion and that is where my issue came from.

Peace to you brother, I mean no offense.

In Christ,
just-a-servant

Mods: Sorry to have hijacked this thread and I did appreciate jiggyfly's response. Peace to you also.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

I really don't really believe that everything that happens in this world that is bad is the work of satan.

I feel that the Bible emphasizes that we all have personal responsibility. For example:

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. [2 Cor. 5:10]

For he is *God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. [Romans 13:4]

*God's servant: governing authorities, an attorney general, the police etc.

There are many other verses that speak of the same thing.

The two above verse show personal responsibility towards both the Christian [2 Cor. 5:10] and also the non Christian [Romans 13:4].

When a person is attributed with personal responsibility (in the sense of responsibility towards good) it is implied that the person is faithful to carry out the responsibilities that he has been assigned (whether from God of from governing authorities). If the person is not faithful to his responsibilities then he breaks his repsonsibilities and as a result much "bad" can result. But in such cases we cannot always say that "the devil made me do it" -or- "the devil did it". God let's us choose by way of our on free will and unfortunately we, at times, choose very badly which results in a lot of negative things that affect both ouselves personally and others.

When we are born into this world - our society assigns us automatically responsibilty in front of our governing authorities and by way of the law of the land.

When we are re-born into the family of God through the merit of Jesus Christ we are also given responsibilities by way of the Holy Spirit who is our new governing authority.

As Christians we are taught that we need to respect our responsibilities before both - the governing authorities and the Holy Spirit.

:dirol:

Well Yeah!! What you are talking about above is civil responsibility. Basically rules of good manners in society. Of course we have responsibilities. Who ever heard of a one sided covenant?

Still...Do you really think that Adam would have sinned without Satan persuaded him to? Without Satan tempting us there would be no sin in the world. Satan is still the root cause of all evil in the world. Even selfish bad manners. Think about it.

 

[gleonard]

Satan is still the root cause of all evil in the world.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

Yes El Hombre, satan is the root cause of evil in the world but we sometimes, I believe, are his helpers.

What I was trying to say in my previous post is that we are held responsible as individuals in a civil sense in regards to the laws of the land that punish for such things as tax evasion, false testimony, plagiarism, treason and many others); not just bad manners in society (whatever those might be). I do not doubt that personal violation of civil law is instigated by the influence of satanic powers, yet I feel at the same time that much of man’s violation is due to a deceitful and wicked heart which in itself needs no help from the devil to do ‘bad’ things. We are quite capable of doing ‘bad’ things out of our own initiative I believe.

As a Christian we have an advantage over those who are without Christ. The advantage is that we have the Spirit of God alive and living inside of us by which we are instructed by the Holy Spirit as to what is ‘good’ and what is ‘bad’. This gives us an even greater responsibility since although we are still called into obedience in relation to civic authority we are also now called into obedience of spiritual authority (by God) where we know instinctively what is the ‘right way’ without having the necessity of having the law written down on a piece of paper as in civil laws. The law is now written on our hearts and lives by the Holy Spirit himself. Yet even we as Christians are still capable of falling into sin and disorder whether it is from diabolic temptation or of that deceitful part of our heart which remains a part of our flesh until the day we are taken home to be with our Lord and Savior. For this Jesus told us to pray that we be ‘not led into temptation’ and we are also told to ‘pray without ceasing’ so that we are continuously filled with the power of the Holy Spirit which is able to neutralize (render ineffective) the deceitful heart that is part of our flesh.

No, I don’t believe that we can simple say that “the devil made me do it” or "the devil did it" in all cases. We have responsibility – to do good, love one another, refute the devil and even flee from him if necessary. To be honest, I myself am not very good at it since I find myself very often coming back to the Lord and asking his forgiveness for the stupid things I sometimes do in my life (and even after over 40 years of knowing him as my Savior).

There will come a time when we must all face the Lord Jesus Christ face to face and an account will be taken for our deeds as Christians. I sincerely believe that I will be ashamed for a lot of the stuff I have done during my Christian life and by no means will I feel at ease before Him and say simply that “I’m sorry – the devil made me do it” or “the devil did it”. Thank God that these things will be burnt up as in a fire and be forever forgotten.

I may not have made myself clear. What I have said are my own personal beliefs. I respect everything you have said and honor you for your clear testimony in favour of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. For me this is the key to all – that our bond can be found in the hope we have in Jesus.


God bless you friend.

George


<o></o>

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Yes El Hombre, satan is the root cause of evil in the world but we sometimes, I believe, are his helpers.

What I was trying to say in my previous post is that we are held responsible as individuals in a civil sense in regards to the laws of the land that punish for such things as tax evasion, false testimony, plagiarism, treason and many others); not just bad manners in society (whatever those might be). I do not doubt that personal violation of civil law is instigated by the influence of satanic powers, yet I feel at the same time that much of man’s violation is due to a deceitful and wicked heart which in itself needs no help from the devil to do ‘bad’ things. We are quite capable of doing ‘bad’ things out of our own initiative I believe.

As a Christian we have an advantage over those who are without Christ. The advantage is that we have the Spirit of God alive and living inside of us by which we are instructed by the Holy Spirit as to what is ‘good’ and what is ‘bad’. This gives us an even greater responsibility since although we are still called into obedience in relation to civic authority we are also now called into obedience of spiritual authority (by God) where we know instinctively what is the ‘right way’ without having the necessity of having the law written down on a piece of paper as in civil laws. The law is now written on our hearts and lives by the Holy Spirit himself. Yet even we as Christians are still capable of falling into sin and disorder whether it is from diabolic temptation or of that deceitful part of our heart which remains a part of our flesh until the day we are taken home to be with our Lord and Savior. For this Jesus told us to pray that we be ‘not led into temptation’ and we are also told to ‘pray without ceasing’ so that we are continuously filled with the power of the Holy Spirit which is able to neutralize (render ineffective) the deceitful heart that is part of our flesh.

No, I don’t believe that we can simple say that “the devil made me do it” or "the devil did it" in all cases. We have responsibility – to do good, love one another, refute the devil and even flee from him if necessary. To be honest, I myself am not very good at it since I find myself very often coming back to the Lord and asking his forgiveness for the stupid things I sometimes do in my life (and even after over 40 years of knowing him as my Savior).

There will come a time when we must all face the Lord Jesus Christ face to face and an account will be taken for our deeds as Christians. I sincerely believe that I will be ashamed for a lot of the stuff I have done during my Christian life and by no means will I feel at ease before Him and say simply that “I’m sorry – the devil made me do it” or “the devil did it”. Thank God that these things will be burnt up as in a fire and be forever forgotten.

I may not have made myself clear. What I have said are my own personal beliefs. I respect everything you have said and honor you for your clear testimony in favour of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. For me this is the key to all – that our bond can be found in the hope we have in Jesus.


God bless you friend.

George


<o></o>

Ok We're agreed