Was Judas chosen to be shafted??

Brother Mike · Aug 31, 2010

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By: Brother Mike

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

It appears on the surface that Judas was destined to be screwed!!! What choice did Judas have??

Mat 27:9Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;

The whole things comes down to what you believe about God. Are some just picked to be screwed???

Many believe that is who God is.. Some divine mysterious will causes God to destroy some without a apparent reason to us. Many accept this and blindly follow that with no knowledge of Who God really is. God is no respecter of persons, and God is love.... Scriptures they forget.

So what happened to Judas???

Scripture had to be fulfilled............ I am sure Judas started out fine like everyone else, but somewhere greed entered in his heart.
Matt said it was THEY, that took that silver..........

Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;

That could have been anyone, and no scriptures leads us to believe that Judas was just picked at the start of things. People add that in.

Joh 13:26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Did Judas have to accept that sop?? That is the big question.

Judas was stealing out of the bag of money. He was a thief. His heart somewhere went wrong and Jesus knew this.

Judas heard what Jesus said about taking that sop, yet still took it. Why????
When Judas did, Satan entered into him. That action gave the devil a place.

The heart is a very readable thing to God. Scriptures had to be fulfilled, so Judas was picked as he was full of greed, and thinking Jesus was going to be a rich earthly king... when those plans looked like they were not going to happen, Judas decided to get at least 30 silver for the whole thing.

No scripture denotes that Judas was picked at the start. Judas own choices, and heart condition made him a candidate. At the end, Jesus knew Judas heart condition and constant theft from the money bag meant Judas was the one. Remember, Matt just said THEY took the 30 silver...... They could have been anyone.

Look at Pharaoh.

Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Exo 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Pharaoh hardened his Heart....... God hardened His heart............

Seems like Pharaoh is messing himself up on one end and God on the other.

1Sa 6:6 Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?

Samuel said they did it to themselves...........

Paul said you have a choice not to...........

Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

What was the real issue......... NOT LISTENING!!!!!

Pharaoh was never on God's side. Not once............. So, it's no surprise that Pharaoh was picked to be an example. Pharaoh choose this long before the Plagues showed up.

Paul said something interesting though.................. God gave Pharaoh a chance...........after chance, after chance......... and Pharaoh did not listen.

Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

It seems that at some point........ Judgment must come. If someone refuses to listen over and over. If someone refuses to change. Then You could get measured to be fitted as a vessel for destruction.

Just like Judas!!!!

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

You see, Vessels of dishonor can do something about that. They don't have to stay that way. If you stay that way then this can happen. Just like Judas, and just like Pharaoh.

Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Once again, we see someone not bearing fruit......... Should it be cut down?? No, give it more time, fertilize it, give it a chance.
God is long-suffering and patience.

Then, if that person refuses to listen or bear fruit in this case...........

CUT IT DOWN!!!!

While some believe that God set Judas up to fail............ Scriptures just don't match up to that. Some think God set Pharaoh to fail...
No, Pharaoh set himself up to fail..... God just gave him over to it.

Some think God screwed Adam and Eve, setting them up to fail....

NO, God told Adam not to eat that fruit... Now how is that God's fault??

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

So, God set up Adam and Eve to fail... by that, Death took hold of this planet, not only that death reigned!!!!! So, God must be the God of the dead and death................

That is what people think............ but Jesus said they do error...........

Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Jesus came to give life, and give life abundantly!!! Is Jesus opposed to God?? (John 10:10)

So, someone that says God planed Adam and Eve to fail, must also believe that God wanted sin and death in this Word. Strange how God tells us how much he does not like sin.... this means God must of been confused, or it could be man has a choice and is responsible for his Moral actions. Our courts think that, and that system was Ordained by God!!!!

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Now what do you think it really is???

Jesus Is Lord.

HappySoul · Aug 31, 2010

The "Everything happens for a reason" phrase gets thrown around a lot these days which seems to contradict free will. That man was suppose to kill that women because everything happens for a reason. Did Ted Bundy, Jeff Dahmer, etc. really have a choice? I would like to think so, but who knows? If scriptures needed to be fulfilled, one of the 12 were going to betray Jesus and that in itself was already set in motion. Even if Jesus didn't know it was going to be Judas, the father did. I don't believe in random accidents/events. Random events goes against an intelligent designer.

Brother Mike · Aug 31, 2010

Nothing is Random.......

Hello HappySoul...........

The Scripture never said it had to be one of the 12.... Matt just said THEY, whoever THEY was going to end up being.

Now was it set in motion or is God just pretty smart???

God knew that Jesus was going to be despised, and men esteemed him not. (ISA)

That gives you a whole bunch of people to choose from to fulfill scripture.

Like a judge that says....... The next person in my court room that has stolen something, I will make an example of..............

Now how long is it going to take for someone with theft charges to enter in??

Random events goes against an intelligent designer.

That is just the thing. Events are not Random. They happen for a reason.

Intelligent designer can make someone just like himself, with the ability to make right or wrong Choices.

God wishes nobody to perish, but ALL come to the knowledge of the Truth.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

If God predestined those that Go to hell, or those that make it, then it would be sort of silly for God to even ask someone to choose. God is not dumb......

Is God a respecter of Persons?? Of course not, and Judas had the ability to make a choice. Judas choose death over life. He choose to be cursed.

He did repent and knew he did wrong, but then went and hanged himself........ More bad choices.

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Ted Bundy, Jeff Dahmer..................... What do you suppose these men did with their thought life???????? What did they allow and entertain the most???

disobedience to the Word can get you in the place they went to. Killing people.

Now they might have never knew this scripture, and a few like it, but then the saying is true. People are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

They both knew they were doing wrong, or else they would not have hidden the bodies............. They knew Right, but choose different.

Jesus Is Lord.

Boanerges · Aug 31, 2010

Just my thoughts:
According to the Word of God predestination (Rom 8:29) is by foreknowledge (1Pe 1:2) that that knowledge of ones heart and choices. I believe (my opinion) that applies to both saved and unsaved.
When all is said and done the Lord seems to give folks what they ask for. Those who will really love Him and want to be with Him will. Those who ride along only to eat the bread and steal from the purse will get what they wanted but that is their reward.
God is love (1Jn 4:8 ) and love desires those who will come onto deep intimacy and relationship. Those that choose their own will as lord commit the same offense as Satan (Isa 14:12 -14) and suffer the same fate (Mat 25:41 ).
All that being said and knowing my God as a loving God I have to believe that He always knew that Judas would reject Him and therefore He assigned him an ignoble purpose.

Brother Mike · Aug 31, 2010

One way to look at it.........

All that being said and knowing my God as a loving God I have to believe that He always knew that Judas would reject Him and therefore He assigned him an ignoble purpose.

Would Seem that Judas did a good thing by fulfilling scriptures!!! he did the plan of God, and made a great sacrifice......

That does not line up with what you said though. GOD IS LOVE!!!!
So, that is just silly thinking.

God told Hezekiah that he was going to die. Get your house in Order.

God also told the city of Nineveh That it was all over.....

What happened???? Guess God changed his mind........... He said he repents not....

Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Jer 18:10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

you get the point............... Seems God just don't know what the best choice is all the time..... Or is it really that???

I see something very fascinating about God.

It's not that God made a bad choice to began with. It's not that God never intended to follow though with what He planned to do.

God simply does not know or choose to know How man is going to respond to him. After all, we are created on his level, and in his class.
It could be God really did mean he wanted Children, and just did not make that up. We really could be his offspring like Acts says, and that was not some misprint.

If God is really our father, then how would a Father respond??

He would tell Hezekiah that he was going to die. Get your house in Order. He would also tell Nineveh he has had enough. Time is up.

WEll, he is God, so it sounds heavy handed. Hezekiah made a choice to repent......... the city of Nineveh made a choice.......... God responded to those choices as a father would, and did not do as he intended to do.

Judas certainly had a problem. There was all indication that God knew Judas heart, and Hence Jesus said the one that takes the sop will betray me.

Judas should have refused right then. I mean he heard what Jesus said.. It was almost like he felt that Jesus knew anyway, so might as well go though with it and get that silver.

That sop was His last chance!!!! At that point Satan took over.

The Election Doctrine that God predestines those that are going to Roast in Horrible agony for Eternity, and those that are just the lucky ones does not hold a ounce of water.

God must seem like a Mysterious space alien to those people. I mean we don't even think like that. Just pick people and ruin their lives for the heck of it. Give them no options to make it. What is worse, these election people don't even think that is evil... Go figure.

Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

I am glad I can call God father, and he is not mysterious.......

Jesus Is Lord.

El Hombre viejo · Aug 31, 2010

Judas

Keep in mind here that Jesus IS love. He IS mercy He is just and kind.

Don't you think He would have given Judas every chance to make a good choice for himself? I say He did. But Judas chose betrayal anyway.

Jesus knew beforehand that Judas would betray Him and chose him anyway. That's not setting him up for destruction but yup. It is fulfilling the prophesy

At one point JI had to allow Satan entry so Satan could work through him.
Luke 22:2-4 (King James Version)

<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-25867">2</sup>And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-25868">3</sup>Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-25869">4</sup>And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.

Just my opinion.

HappySoul · Aug 31, 2010

Well the one thing I do believe and nothing can change this belief is that people are predestined to be uniquely different. Some people have a harder time with addictions than others. Some people are more inclined to lust for sex or murder than others. While some people struggle with ********** tendencies, etc. And then there are the people who have everything working in their favor. They are the fortunate ones. Afterall, it would suck to be attracted to young children. I personally can't understand child molestors because I have none of those desires. And as much as I try not to judge them I find I can't help but get incredibly angry at them...even though it's a condition that they are more inclined to have than me and most others. And I'm very grateful that I have not a fraction of that disgusting trait, yet in a very small way I feel sorry for those who do. Though I think they could fight those temptations off if they tried hard enough...Judas was more than likely born with immoral disabilities that made it much easier for him to fail. Was he set up to fail or was he fulfilling his role on this Earth. Either way, he was at a disadvantage from the very start.

Veracity · Aug 31, 2010

My daughter and I have this discussion now and then. Predestination, foreknowledge and choice.

Judas felt terrible after the betrayal, scripture tells us that, but like so many, rather than repent which is our constant bridge thanks to the blood of Christ and His mercy and grace, Judas turned it inward instead of crying out to God, instead of running after Jesus and screaming his repentance, (when it was me) instead of following Christ to the cross. We were all a Judas at some point.

Anyway, that is the way I see it. Can't wait to see where this goes.

Veracity · Aug 31, 2010

HappySoul said:
...Judas was more than likely born with immoral disabilities that made it much easier for him to fail.

Wow what a great way to put it!

When Jesus said to the lame man,'your sins are forgiven', and he was healed, that says it all. Healing comes with belief in Christ. Repentance... can never stress the importance of ongoing repentance. I feel terrible for Christians who have thought themselves above certain sin, just to find themselves caught up in it. We were born lame from the womb, our immoral disabilities can be healed. Satanic forces will bring temptation around, and if we fail, we repent and get back to walking with the Lord.

SpiritLedEd · Aug 31, 2010

El Hombre viejo said:
Jesus knew beforehand that Judas would betray Him and chose him anyway. That's not setting him up for destruction but yup. It is fulfilling the prophesy

Keep in mind that one of the definitions of "prophesy" is accurately predicting future events. God knowing in advance what Judas would do and when he would do it did not interfere with Judas' excercise of free will in decision making.

SLE

El Hombre viejo · Aug 31, 2010

SpiritLedEd said:
Keep in mind that one of the definitions of "prophesy" is accurately predicting future events. God knowing in advance what Judas would do and when he would do it did not interfere with Judas' excercise of free will in decision making.

Of course...grin Isn't that what I said? Well kinda...?

stephen · Aug 31, 2010

The whole things comes down to what you believe about God. Are some just picked to be screwed???

Bro Mike......No and never would be my answer to your question. "His mercies are new every morning......He is not willing that any should perish.....Great is His Faithfulness.

Judas was a chosen man. He had every opportunity to do good, along with the others. There could have been a Gospel According to Judas" Such was the confidence Jesus placed!

Who among men can boast? This has all to do with his Mercy and Grace. Which would not be Mercy and Grace at all if there were any merit in any man.

"The dying thief rejoiced to see that fountain in his day....and there may I........" Even me whoever I am. Jesus welcomes even me.

I am so pleased to have encountered Jesus....along lifes road.

Judas was a privileged man! But he missed his opportunity. Such is human nature and the inherent sin therein. So with all men...We need to call upon Him while is today, "Now is the accepted time....now is the day of Salvation"

Brother Mike · Aug 31, 2010

Thanx everyone

I am privileged to have addressed such a debated issue and used scriptures to prove God does not predestine anyone to fail, but that man has a morel responsibility and choice to make.

Have said that....... I wonder where all the Calvinist are at???

and the other election types.....

you would think they would have sniffed this out by now.

Blessings everyone!!!

Jesus Is Lord.

Boanerges · Sep 1, 2010

Brother Mike said:
Would Seem that Judas did a good thing by fulfilling scriptures!!! he did the plan of God, and made a great sacrifice...... That does not line up with what you said though. GOD IS LOVE!!!! So, that is just silly thinking.

You are entitled to your opinion and I will try not to belittle your views.

Brother Mike · Sep 1, 2010

Judas Completed God's Will.

You are entitled to your opinion and I will try not to belittle your views.

I found that on some forum. Someone thought Judas was going to Heaven because he Obeyed God and fulfilled Scriptures.

I surly hope you would not think that I thought Judas did anything but make BAD CHOICE after choice...

I mean he even repented and gave the silver back, then once on the right Track, he hanged himself........ Now that is Dumb.

Mike.

rojoloco · Sep 5, 2010

Brother Mike said:
It appears on the surface that Judas was destined to be screwed!!! What choice did Judas have??

It's really hard to go anywhere with this when I can't even get past this first statement. God did not force Judas to do anything. Judas did it out of his own greed. While I believe Judas was born with the sole purpose of this very role (Scripture actually says he was born to annihilation), I also believe he did so willingly. All men are dead in sin and incapable of making themselves alive any more than my dead hamster could bring himself back to life. Just because God does not choose to save all men does not mean He is screwing everybody else. It simply means He is being just and sending them where they deserve.

To claim that it is "screwing" someone for God to only choose some to be saved and leaving others to follow their original path to Hell really doesn't make any sense. If someone is to claim that, they are compelled to say it is "screwing" people for creating anybody at all knowing that not all would "choose" (as an Arminian would call it) to be saved. Why not only create those whom He knew would choose Him? See where I'm going with this? It's a strawman argument that really holds no water.

Brother Mike said:
Many believe that is who God is.. Some divine mysterious will causes God to destroy some without a apparent reason to us. Many accept this and blindly follow that with no knowledge of Who God really is. God is no respecter of persons, and God is love.... Scriptures they forget.

God is also a God of wrath. Actually, His wrath is mentioned more in Scripture than His love. People accept His love as an attribute but often forget that His wrath is just as much an attribute and not simply an action.

Brother Mike said:
Scripture had to be fulfilled............ I am sure Judas started out fine like everyone else, but somewhere greed entered in his heart.
Matt said it was THEY, that took that silver..........

Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;

That could have been anyone, and no scriptures leads us to believe that Judas was just picked at the start of things. People add that in.

Except that Scripture says Judas was born for this very purpose. He was the son of perdition. The Greek defines it as annihilation; absolute and total destruction. It does not say this was merely his outcome but actually his very birthright. He was the son of destruction. He was born to it. This was his purpose and his birthright was paid in full so that Scripture would be fulfilled. To say it was merely chance that it was him is to say that he was never really born to it (complete contradiction of what Scripture tells us), could have escaped it (making Scripture a lie), and could have possibly never happened to anybody had everybody decided to have a conscience that day. My God does not rely on mere chance but sits on His mighty throne while His sovereign decree unfold. God is active in all things because He has ordained all things. Anything outside of His ordination fails to exist because all things come together and are held together through God (Romans 11:36).

Brother Mike said:
Pharaoh was never on God's side. Not once............. So, it's no surprise that Pharaoh was picked to be an example.

Or could it possibly be that Pharaoh was never on God's side because God had already chosen him? DING! All things begin and end with God. Nothing starts with man and God just picks up the slack, counts His lucky stars that things worked out in His favor, and runs with it.

Brother Mike said:
Paul said something interesting though.................. God gave Pharaoh a chance...........after chance, after chance......... and Pharaoh did not listen.

And this is called compatibilism. It shows man's responsibility despite God's sovereignty. God was not crossing His fingers hoping Pharaoh would choose Him. Imagine how that would have royally screwed up God's plans! God would have been in for a big surprise! No, God knew Pharaoh would never choose Him because God had already chosen him for something else. God shows mercy on whom He shows mercy and He hardens who He hardens (Romans 9:18). Pharaoh was never intended to be a vessel of mercy (Romans 9:23). He was a vessel fitted unto destruction (Romans 9:22). There was never really an option for Pharaoh despite the "calling" and "chances" that God was giving. God knew this because He ordained it (Romans 9:23). Despite this, Pharaoh willingly followed his own heart. There was no twisting of any arms or making someone cry uncle. Compatibilism.

Brother Mike said:

Rom 9:22

Click to expand...

Brother Mike said:
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

It seems that at some point........ Judgment must come. If someone refuses to listen over and over. If someone refuses to change. Then You could get measured to be fitted as a vessel for destruction.

Just like Judas!!!!

Except that the very next verse says these people were prepared beforehand. It wasn't a "wing it" kind of thing where God plays whatever hand He is dealt. Just as He speaks of Pharaoh as having been prepared beforehand, He also refers to Judas as having been destined to destruction. You are right. The case of Pharaoh is just like Judas!

Brother Mike · Sep 5, 2010

ummm.

I thought something happened to you Brother.. Glad to see you back.

I don't however believe that your going to agree with me....

anyway... we both get to sharpen our skill on what we believe.... that can't be all bad.

Blessings In the name of Jesus for you..

Jesus is Lord.

rojoloco · Sep 5, 2010

Brother Mike said:
I thought something happened to you Brother.. Glad to see you back.

I don't however believe that your going to agree with me....

anyway... we both get to sharpen our skill on what we believe.... that can't be all bad.

Blessings In the name of Jesus for you..

Jesus is Lord.

I've just been really busy with work, wife, & kids. I just started vacation for about 2 weeks so I finally got some time and this one just jumped out at me. While I don't really think we'll ever "convince" one another, I do enjoy our discussions. Blessings to you as well.

RJ · Sep 6, 2010

Brother Mike said:
Would Seem that Judas did a good thing by fulfilling scriptures!!! he did the plan of God, and made a great sacrifice......

That does not line up with what you said though. GOD IS LOVE!!!!
So, that is just silly thinking.

God told Hezekiah that he was going to die. Get your house in Order.

God also told the city of Nineveh That it was all over.....

What happened???? Guess God changed his mind........... He said he repents not....

Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Jer 18:10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

you get the point............... Seems God just don't know what the best choice is all the time..... Or is it really that???

I see something very fascinating about God.

It's not that God made a bad choice to began with. It's not that God never intended to follow though with what He planned to do.

God simply does not know or choose to know How man is going to respond to him. After all, we are created on his level, and in his class.
It could be God really did mean he wanted Children, and just did not make that up. We really could be his offspring like Acts says, and that was not some misprint.

If God is really our father, then how would a Father respond??

He would tell Hezekiah that he was going to die. Get your house in Order. He would also tell Nineveh he has had enough. Time is up.

WEll, he is God, so it sounds heavy handed. Hezekiah made a choice to repent......... the city of Nineveh made a choice.......... God responded to those choices as a father would, and did not do as he intended to do.

Judas certainly had a problem. There was all indication that God knew Judas heart, and Hence Jesus said the one that takes the sop will betray me.

Judas should have refused right then. I mean he heard what Jesus said.. It was almost like he felt that Jesus knew anyway, so might as well go though with it and get that silver.

That sop was His last chance!!!! At that point Satan took over.

The Election Doctrine that God predestines those that are going to Roast in Horrible agony for Eternity, and those that are just the lucky ones does not hold a ounce of water.

God must seem like a Mysterious space alien to those people. I mean we don't even think like that. Just pick people and ruin their lives for the heck of it. Give them no options to make it. What is worse, these election people don't even think that is evil... Go figure.

Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

I am glad I can call God father, and he is not mysterious.......

Jesus Is Lord.

You said: God simply does not know or choose to know How man is going to respond to him. After all, we are created on his level, and in his class.
It could be God really did mean he wanted Children, and just did not make that up. We really could be his offspring like Acts says, and that was not some misprint.

Are you also rojoloco? You sure sound the same.

With all due respect, you have this same idea that God is not Omniscient (All Knowing).

It just befuddles me that one, in order to support their own theologies, would use the excuse that God can't much less choose to know something! I repeat, you said:God simply does not know or choose to know

Again, I apologize but, that is absurd!

God is absolute perfection; he is all omnipotent, all omnipresent and all omniscient. To say that he "can't" do something, is to say that he is not all powerful, that he lacks something, there is a flaw in him. The universe is held together by the perfection in him, if he were to have a flaw, the Bible is a lie, Jesus could not have been the perfect unblemished Lamb that takes all sin away and the universe would crumble!

There is so much about God and creation that shows his omniscience but here is solid proof of his perfection or he is a liar and we are all lost:

1 COR 13:9-12

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-28659">9</sup>For we know in part and we prophesy in part, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-28660">10</sup>but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-28661">11</sup>When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-28662">12</sup>Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

When perfection comes, then we shall know fully, what more is there to be said?

I am sorry and I mean no disrespect but, to say God can't is a terrible error and should be taught to no one!

Brother Mike · Sep 6, 2010

Due respect

With all due respect, you have this same idea that God is not Omniscient (All Knowing).

Though the Amplified does use the Word Omniscient, the Word does not denote God knows every choice we make from start to finish.

It just means at any given time God has the ability to know.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will show you things to come, and there is the Holy Spirit Gift of Wisdom. What does that say? It says God is more than able to bring things to pass. It does not say we don't have a choice to follow those things. To do so would mean that we have no choice but to obey, and I can say for one that I have ignored the Holy Spirit telling me something to come, to my own hurt. I choose not to be a doer, but just heard. Had God knew I was going to ignore him ahead of time, Or that people would make the wrong choices, then God is so stupid as to waste his time warning us that certain actions are harmful. Why bother.

You have not taken the time to read my MANY scriptures where God went to look and see, or changed his mind.

If you choose to only read part of a thread, or ignore other scripture, then with all due respect, there is not much that you can be taught.

Mike........

Welcome!

Was Judas chosen to be shafted??

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