Born again

[Hekuran]

Question out for discussion really. This weekend I came across some ideas about the phrase "born again" that I'd not considered before.

The phrase born again only comes up in one passage in the Bible - that is Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus. John 3

Jesus declared:

"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."​

We read this informed by what we know of Jesus' death and resurrection from the dead. But could not have been part of the original conversation - it took place before Jesus died.

So in the context of the original interview with Nicodemus, a more natural understanding of Jesus saying "no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again" would be something like: Nicodemus, your great learning and status as a Pharisee is holding you back. If you really want to understand who I am and what I have come to do, you will have to strip yourself of all that you have spent your whole life acquiring, and start from the very beginning.

So it is very similar in meaning to Matthew 19: Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.

If this is correct, then I think it has implications for the kind of thinking that says, "I prayed a prayer and was sincere in my heart so now I am born again and am destined for heaven."

Rather

I am born again: in following Jesus my life has been taken to pieces; everything I once depended on I have lost, and now, by faith, I live according to the priorities of God's kingdom.

(This is a thought, it is not a final position that I have arrived at or that I want to persuade anybody to. I'd be grateful for others' perspectives.)

 

[RJ]

Question out for discussion really. This weekend I came across some ideas about the phrase "born again" that I'd not considered before.

The phrase born again only comes up in one passage in the Bible - that is Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus. John 3

Jesus declared:

"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
​

We read this informed by what we know of Jesus' death and resurrection from the dead. But could not have been part of the original conversation - it took place before Jesus died.

So in the context of the original interview with Nicodemus, a more natural understanding of Jesus saying "no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again" would be something like: Nicodemus, your great learning and status as a Pharisee is holding you back. If you really want to understand who I am and what I have come to do, you will have to strip yourself of all that you have spent your whole life acquiring, and start from the very beginning.

So it is very similar in meaning to Matthew 19: Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.

If this is correct, then I think it has implications for the kind of thinking that says, "I prayed a prayer and was sincere in my heart so now I am born again and am destined for heaven."

Rather

I am born again: in following Jesus my life has been taken to pieces; everything I once depended on I have lost, and now, by faith, I live according to the priorities of God's kingdom.

(This is a thought, it is not a final position that I have arrived at or that I want to persuade anybody to. I'd be grateful for others' perspectives.)

Good brother, don't try to rearange the bible to suit your on idea, it's not nice to fool with Mother Nature! I call your attention to Revelations 22:18;
<SUP>18</SUP>I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:<SUP class=xref value='(A)'>(A)</SUP> if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,

Also," Born Again" is found in three versres:
John 3:3
John 3:7
1 Peter 1:23

In your quoting John3:3-8, you are right about Jesus saying this before he gave us the Holy Spirit, which was after his resurrection. But the meaning to Nicodemus, as the bible states, is correct.

The difference here is that Jesus was performing yet another Messianic Prophecy and was telling Nicodemus of the very near future.

 

[Hekuran]

I'm not rearranging or adding to the Bible. I am trying to get to the heart of what Jesus is saying to Nicodemus with the born again metaphor.

What do you understand it to mean?

 

[spirit1st]

Born -Again is GOD giving us a NEW SPIRIT! Which makes us a brand new heavenly being! One of GODS children!

This for told of it!
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Our first birth is by water from our dads and moms! the next birth Must be of our Spirit!
As God is the father of perfect spirit beings !

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Our Spirit is the perfected part!

The old spirit [old man] is nailed to HIS CROSS!
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
JESUS Christ is the last adam !Adam meaning beginning! Adam [Jesus ] Start a brand new race of beings !made like Him!

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
HEART is our Spirit man!

The new man , new creature , inward man, inner man and hidden man are All our Spirit after being born -again

Born -again , born of God, Born from above and born of our spirit are All GOD giving us a new spirit!


GOD see each of our spirit as a perfect virgin being!
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

God started a brand new work. He started with mankind! Those willing to be made anew ! He ends by creating a New heavens and earth!

Lots happen at salvation!

God wanted a family , made like Jesus Christ Too share His kingdom with!

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

We are NEW CREATURES! We will get new names! Because we are new beings!
Our LORD also gets a new name! We follow Him 100%

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

LOTS more to it all!
The point is JESUS is the perfect example in EVERY WAY for All GODS children!
if any questions , And I can a
Answer them ? I will ! God has blessed me with Good understanding of the NEW TESTAMENT ! Which is JESUS CHRIST after HIS DEATH!

He was born in the old testament under the law of Moses! He died to become the NEW TESTAMENT !

HE changed the PRIESTHOOD and He changed the law!

He gave us a more perfect priesthood and More Perfect law!

The law we now live under is eternal law!

Love is greater than all the other laws And GOD Created All things By Faith! Which in its perfect form is Never without LOVE! They are always coupled!

 

[Boanerges]

Born -Again is GOD giving us a NEW SPIRIT! Which makes us a brand new heavenly being! One of GODS children!

This for told of it!
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Our first birth is by water from our dads and moms! the next birth Must be of our Spirit!
As God is the father of perfect spirit beings !

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Our Spirit is the perfected part!

The old spirit [old man] is nailed to HIS CROSS!
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
JESUS Christ is the last adam !Adam meaning beginning! Adam [Jesus ] Start a brand new race of beings !made like Him!

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
HEART is our Spirit man!

The new man , new creature , inward man, inner man and hidden man are All our Spirit after being born -again

Born -again , born of God, Born from above and born of our spirit are All GOD giving us a new spirit!


GOD see each of our spirit as a perfect virgin being!
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

God started a brand new work. He started with mankind! Those willing to be made anew ! He ends by creating a New heavens and earth!

Lots happen at salvation!

God wanted a family , made like Jesus Christ Too share His kingdom with!

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

We are NEW CREATURES! We will get new names! Because we are new beings!
Our LORD also gets a new name! We follow Him 100%

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

LOTS more to it all!
The point is JESUS is the perfect example in EVERY WAY for All GODS children!
if any questions , And I can a
Answer them ? I will ! God has blessed me with Good understanding of the NEW TESTAMENT ! Which is JESUS CHRIST after HIS DEATH!

He was born in the old testament under the law of Moses! He died to become the NEW TESTAMENT !

HE changed the PRIESTHOOD and He changed the law!

He gave us a more perfect priesthood and More Perfect law!

The law we now live under is eternal law!

Love is greater than all the other laws And GOD Created All things By Faith! Which in its perfect form is Never without LOVE! They are always coupled!

Amen x 10.:shade::shade:

 

[RJ]

I'm not rearranging or adding to the Bible. I am trying to get to the heart of what Jesus is saying to Nicodemus with the born again metaphor.

What do you understand it to mean?

Ok that's good my brother.
As far as your question, I refer you to my previous thread above:

Jesus was simply telling Nicodemus about the future.

The Bible says that there are two births, one birth of water , which is the womb and from your Mother and one spiritual birth from the Holy Spirit.
Since Nicodemus was already born of water through his mother, Jesus was telling him a time, in the future, that he would be "Born-Again", of the spirit! This would occur after the resurrection.

 

[Boanerges]

This is a family study on the subject:

What does it mean to be born again

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God is tripartite- Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God made man in His own image - tripartite - spirit, soul and body.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The day Adam ate the forbidden fruit his body did not die nor did his soul. Adam experienced a spiritual death that separated him from God.




God would make a way for His fellowship with man to be restored and this way was prophesied by Ezekiel :

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Eze 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


There had to be a cleansing of sin and a spiritual rebirth for man and God to once again meet and take those long walks in the garden.
Jesus Himself tells us that we cannot see, perceive or have any part in the Kingdom of God without this spiritual rebirth:

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Unless a man be born of water (the natural birthing process of the body (breaking of the water bag) and the Spirit (the impartation of new spiritual life) He cannot enter into God's Kingdom. What is born of the flesh [(body), mans efforts] cannot please God nor stand in His presence.

We are given a new spiritual man or inner man made (anew) in God's image:
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This salvation experience or "born again" experience places new life in the believers by spiritual regeneration.
The soul (mind, will, intellect, emotions) must come in agreement with the spiritual revelation given by the Holy Spirit in the Word of God. As this soul is made new (in it's very life force) and every way of thinking it is become renewed and thinks, acts and believes the Word of God in every circumstance- this is the saving of the soul.


Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

As the spirit receives revelation, the mind is renewed and the body follows the thoughts of the renewed mind- this is a man who walks pleasing to God in every area of his life. He is now complete and mature following God's plan and purpose for his life and the power of the Living God flows freely in and through him.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 

[jakes]

To be born again! Well who needs to be born again, me or Jesus into me? I the same me is born again then i will NEVER be born of Spirit! So it is clear that I, the sinning me is not the New me. Right through the Bible we read about how God wants us to be holy, obedient to Him only, and He even says... Be perfect even as thou heavnly Father is perfect. now THAT is a high calling. Wonder is it is possible. Well not to add or subtract, that is not to do mathematics with the Word of God! I would love to share this with you.

Jesus said, as so many other teachers in the Same Spirit .... Repent, and be baptized. Now is this one step or two. Well that is another topic, but look at this. In Ephesians 4:11,12,13 we read that GOD appointed people in office, to perfect the saints, and in Acts 8 i see how they do it. By laying hands on the people by the Apostles, they recieved the Holy Spirit.... Ah but that was AFTER they repented, and accepted the Word, Jesus into there hearts. Acts 8:17. Read the whole process please readers.

So even though an evangelist came to the nonbelievers, he made them saints, but the perfecting of the saints were only completed once they were baptized in THE NAME of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. The Name of ALL THREE. That is the Character of God Himself. The Name is not a name it is God's Character... JEsus said... Father i have REVEALED thou Name to the people thou hast gavest me.... Jesus did not SAY the Name, He SHOWED the NAME!

Ok so, i come to the conclusion that rebirth from GOD 1 John 3:9 (born of God, or has been born of God) is the rebirth! Rebirth is to be born of God, and that is when a saint is made a CHILD of God! Because now the saint is perfected! Eph 4:11.

Saint - from the greek word Hagios - meaning... most holy, sacred, physically pure, morally blameless. That is pretty without sin people. So saints do not sin, but they are not perfected yet, like the people in that town of Samaria, when they recieved the WORD of God from Phillip, but they needed to recieve the Holy Spirit because He fell on NONE of them YET! They repented from Simon and their old ways, and were baptized in the Name of Jesus, but the Spirit fell on none YET!

And after the Spirit did fall on them the Apostles did what God appointed them to do, they perfected the saints in Samaria, UNTO A PERFECT MAN, Eph 4:13 says. And 1 JOhn 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 confirms that these people are kept that way becasue of the Born of God! Rebirth is way more than 99.99999% people thinks! Because of false teachings!

Rebirth is TRUE PERFECTION, because it is a birth from GOD!
Rebirth is at the end of dying off sin. At the end of sanctification, at the end of justification and at the end of repentance. That is why the Lord said.... Mark 13:13... that end is the end of repentance, and then the BAPTISM of God. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit!

Thank the Lord, that He is so Faithful, and so powerful His salvation. May the Lord Jesus Christ be glorified in us all who have this great expectation of His presence in us!

John 17:10. Remember there is no sin in Love, and no Love in sin! If we say we Love Jesus and sin we are liers! Jesus says to keep His commandments is the Love for Him... And He said Be Perfect.. Matthew 5:48. Fortunately we only have to repent ALL our sins, and He will bring the perfection AFTER we repented. We only have to stop sinning, Jesus will do the perfection part through HIS rebirth! now ours! HIS!

It is not a facevalus perfection it is a GODLY perfection, because the Spirit of God cannot be anything but perfect. Look.... 1 John 3:6.

If we read the two chapters of John 17 and 1 John 3 and we spend quiet time with the Spirit as Teacher we cannot doubt ever again that Jesus was Just, when he said... Matthew 5:48. He is Lord and He did command us that, becasue He knew what His rebirth would do to all who are born of GOD!

Lord Jesus, Thou art our Lord, Please have thou will be done in us! Amen!

 

[spirit1st]

GOD made Salvation simple! It not hard!
No deep things involved!
He gives us a New perfect Spirit! And all we do is feed it! The written Word feeds it!

The new spirit is a baby at salvation and it needs to grow and mature!
The Word its self does that!

Now the flesh mind is different! It has bad thoughts, left by the old spirit! Which the bible calls the old man!

These old thoughts are not good for Gods Holy Children and have no place in the Kingdom of God! They must be replaced with GODS Word!
They will cause us problems if left in our flesh minds!
God put certain desires in all mankind ! These fleshly type thoughts are good . But when we allow these thoughts to rule over us? They will go too far? Causing us to over do much fleshly things which then become sin.
Our Spirit at salvation is perfect like our FATHER GOD!
All our problems in life is though our flesh mind or thinking! the battle field for all mankind is in there flesh mind! It full of flaws! That is why , it must be renewed or we can say ? Changed in its thinking! The word of GOD , read and accepted , taught by the Spirit of truth ! Replaces these thoughts that hurt us ! The trouble as I see it is, we might lean to our understanding or some pastor or teacher and accept there thoughts or teachings as truth, then we have just as big or bigger problem if they do not have the correct understanding? Then we are not following our LORD , but the person or persons words we have now accepted as truth!
That is why we have so many groups all saying they alone of the truth!
GOD saw all this confuse n and Gave each perfect child a part of HIS being. To teach and guide and reveal things of this world and heaven!
We have everything we will ever need in our new creature [spirit] to be More than conquerors ! WE lack nothing . Even at salvation, Which our Spirit is a baby. It can and will overcome all things . The New Creature is a true off spring of GOD , A true child of GODS household and family and kingdom! IT will never accept anything that is not TRUTH
But it does not have all knowledge and understanding! We fill it with the living written Word.
The flesh mind and body is different than the spirit and its mind !The new creature is very different than the flesh we dwell in and its mind.
The more we love though our spirit! The more perfect we will serve our LORD and please HIM! living though the flesh and its thinking will not ever please GOD .
Its only though our Spirit can we please GOD! Our flesh mind MUST BE Re Programed!
The programing at the beginning of mankind was perfect! But now everything we see is Not the way GOD made it! Everything we see is changed because of sin!

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son,

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Our flesh mind set , must change to be for OUR LORDS GLORY and for others!
In our natural new Home [NEW JERUSALEM] it for others first ! On earth the world thinks of them selves first! it very different for us! We are to be givers like our LORD! but of course we are bound to take care of our families first!
It our duty , HE expects it!
Our family is HIS family!
We are too be the spiritual leaders in our homes, this is our first job! Because these children are GODS CHILDREN and raising them FOR HIM is an eternal work!
My post has gotten too big sorry!

 

[RJ]

To be born again! Well who needs to be born again, me or Jesus into me? I the same me is born again then i will NEVER be born of Spirit! So it is clear that I, the sinning me is not the New me. Right through the Bible we read about how God wants us to be holy, obedient to Him only, and He even says... Be perfect even as thou heavnly Father is perfect. now THAT is a high calling. Wonder is it is possible. Well not to add or subtract, that is not to do mathematics with the Word of God! I would love to share this with you.

Jesus said, as so many other teachers in the Same Spirit .... Repent, and be baptized. Now is this one step or two. Well that is another topic, but look at this. In Ephesians 4:11,12,13 we read that GOD appointed people in office, to perfect the saints, and in Acts 8 i see how they do it. By laying hands on the people by the Apostles, they recieved the Holy Spirit.... Ah but that was AFTER they repented, and accepted the Word, Jesus into there hearts. Acts 8:17. Read the whole process please readers.

So even though an evangelist came to the nonbelievers, he made them saints, but the perfecting of the saints were only completed once they were baptized in THE NAME of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. The Name of ALL THREE. That is the Character of God Himself. The Name is not a name it is God's Character... JEsus said... Father i have REVEALED thou Name to the people thou hast gavest me.... Jesus did not SAY the Name, He SHOWED the NAME!

Ok so, i come to the conclusion that rebirth from GOD 1 John 3:9 (born of God, or has been born of God) is the rebirth! Rebirth is to be born of God, and that is when a saint is made a CHILD of God! Because now the saint is perfected! Eph 4:11.

Saint - from the greek word Hagios - meaning... most holy, sacred, physically pure, morally blameless. That is pretty without sin people. So saints do not sin, but they are not perfected yet, like the people in that town of Samaria, when they recieved the WORD of God from Phillip, but they needed to recieve the Holy Spirit because He fell on NONE of them YET! They repented from Simon and their old ways, and were baptized in the Name of Jesus, but the Spirit fell on none YET!

And after the Spirit did fall on them the Apostles did what God appointed them to do, they perfected the saints in Samaria, UNTO A PERFECT MAN, Eph 4:13 says. And 1 JOhn 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 confirms that these people are kept that way becasue of the Born of God! Rebirth is way more than 99.99999% people thinks! Because of false teachings!

Rebirth is TRUE PERFECTION, because it is a birth from GOD!
Rebirth is at the end of dying off sin. At the end of sanctification, at the end of justification and at the end of repentance. That is why the Lord said.... Mark 13:13... that end is the end of repentance, and then the BAPTISM of God. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit!

Thank the Lord, that He is so Faithful, and so powerful His salvation. May the Lord Jesus Christ be glorified in us all who have this great expectation of His presence in us!

John 17:10. Remember there is no sin in Love, and no Love in sin! If we say we Love Jesus and sin we are liers! Jesus says to keep His commandments is the Love for Him... And He said Be Perfect.. Matthew 5:48. Fortunately we only have to repent ALL our sins, and He will bring the perfection AFTER we repented. We only have to stop sinning, Jesus will do the perfection part through HIS rebirth! now ours! HIS!

It is not a facevalus perfection it is a GODLY perfection, because the Spirit of God cannot be anything but perfect. Look.... 1 John 3:6.

If we read the two chapters of John 17 and 1 John 3 and we spend quiet time with the Spirit as Teacher we cannot doubt ever again that Jesus was Just, when he said... Matthew 5:48. He is Lord and He did command us that, becasue He knew what His rebirth would do to all who are born of GOD!

Lord Jesus, Thou art our Lord, Please have thou will be done in us! Amen!

Just a couple of questions Jake.

are saying that when we are "Born-Again", born of spirit, that we become perfect and do not sin again?

 

[Hekuran]

Thanks for the input

I am not questioning the Bible's teaching on regeneration – that we are raised to new life in Christ.

I know what "born again" means in Christian circles today. But I am not sure that Jesus used it with this meaning. It seems that we have loaded this term with the whole theology of the gospel, and that may not be what Jesus meant. After all the phrase only crops up in this passage. (The phrase which is translated in the same way in 1 Peter is actually a different term altogether in Greek).

In any case you only have to read on a few verses until you get to the biggest possible statement about the gospel: "For God so loved the world..."

 

[SpiritLedEd]

As I've said before, I believe that salvation is both an event and a process (see Php 2:12-13).

SLE

 

[Hekuran]

Thanks SLE. That's a very elegant way of saying what I have been stumbling towards.

The concern that is bubbling away inside me it that - in very general terms - Christians today emphasise the event far more than the process, and that leads us to a lightweight and superficial church.

 

[Boanerges]

Are you confusing sanctification with salvation?

 

[spirit1st]

All must be called , most are called then tested and tried! Other have Salvation right away?

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

When I first was Born -again . I came home from church , the LORD asked me , who was the most righteous in church? I said the pastor LORD!
He said , He is no different than you !
I said , but LORD , he is your shepherd , He said , I am the shepherd !
He said you going to follow me or Him !I said YOU LORD!
He said very harsh. DO IT THEN!
It bought great fear in me! as i did not know i was following that guy!
And since that day, I have not accepted anything from any without studying the bible and asking the Spirit of truth the meaning!

I believe this is the problem with many in all these different type churches! Many are follow these preachers and teachers and books written by men and not our LORD!

I believe this is why many are never Born of God!

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I believe our walk with our Father is ONE on ONE forever more

 

[Boanerges]

If one is born again one has salvation beginning at that moment.
Eternal life does not wait until you die but the same power that raised Christ from the dead already works in the believer.

 

[RJ]

If one is born again one has salvation beginning at that moment.
Eternal life does not wait until you die but the same power that raised Christ from the dead already works in the believer.

Amen Brother, we have been resurrected into Christ and we are already seated in heaven with Him.