First Woman Priest?! Question within.

[TomMann]

What is a "good" church?

So I assume a "small" church just starting out, with very few members, no one in training, and members all babes in Christ...not a good church. Guess it would be best to cancel the meeting then altogether....and hinder the coming together of the saints to stay orderly.
Do you really think Jesus has time for this? That's almost as silly as thinking He is concerned about the length of ones sleeves.

I'll make a note of this. Thanks...I stand informed...............

A good church is one who has at its central focus, The Lord Jesus and his teachings. I would assume that this small church has a committed seasoned pastor who is starting this new work. And for whatever reason was unable to be at a single service. With all babes in Christ, who would lead? Perhaps an individual could read a chapter of scripture without a lot of teaching (as a babe in Christ). Perhaps you could have a prayer meeting asking members to come forward or from their seats make their requests known to God. Perhaps you could just announce there would be no service for the pastors absence. There are exceptions and situations that may require deviation from the norm but that does not change the norm. At any rate, know and expect the Lord to lead in your decisions.

 

[ChildrenOfLight]

First of all, 'first woman priest...' thing...this woman is the first one in a certain diocese. I know there was a woman priest at a Catholic church my mom, my step dad, my brother, and I went to to see the Passion play. That was about 10 or more years ago.

The 'argument' of women teaching/preaching, etc has been going on for years in the church.

It is interesting to me how the discussion comes about. I usually don't think of it, but I guess I am so modern that I think it is fine for me to teach a Bible study to males and females.

There are some that will not listen to a female when she is teaching/preaching. It is sad really. We as human beings, male and female, black, white, yellow, red...can learn so much from each other.

It would be a sad thing to be a woman (and I am) and know God has put a calling on my life to preach/teach both men and women, but because of what the Bible supposedly says I can't. So...does that mean...God didn't call me or that the interpretation of the scriptures is wrong?

I have heard strong godly women speak from the pulpit in front of both genders and speak with such power...not yelling, but with Holy Spirit power that I can't say women shouldn't speak and teach both men and women.

I am not a scholar, I do know some things about the origin of the Bible...and how it was written.


2 Timothy 3:16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Okay, I got that, I believe Paul wrote that.

Do you know that most of what Paul wrote were letters to churches?

Should we not take the context in which something in the Bible is written into account? Does it matter?

If so, what was happening at the point in time where Paul wrote about coverings for prayer and women not speaking in the church?


If I don't wear a covering and have short hair (which both are true for me), does that mean I am sinning and in contempt or something? Are my prayers heard any less or not at all because I have no head covering?


I believe we are to read the Bible, but I also believe we are to study it. To learn not only what the Word says, what it implies, but also what was the context in which the writer was writing.

It's it interesting to know that while John was on Pathos (I think it was) he did some writing.

Paul wrote from prison.

Do we just toss the context aside?

Do we throw out the rest of the Bible when we look at verses?


There were women prophets in the Bible. There was Deborah. There was Hannah (Anna).

Luke 2:36-38

36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;

37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.


I always wonder...God and the Bible can not be wrong...ever.

Is this idea...women not being pastors, etc...is that our idea or God's?

This is a time for prayer.

Father God,
Open our eyes to Your truth. We are sick and tired of lies. Show us Lord. We want to be where You want us and not be buried by ideas that are not of You. Help my words be Yours. In Jesus' name, Amen.



*sarcasm* Did I just teach? *oops* (Some believe that women can't even teach as on forums...giving ideas...goes against what Paul wrote also)

sorry but the new testament states a woman should not teach but remain in silence, and learn. for it was woman who first decieved man, and it was eve who led man to sin. it is in there, trust me, it states a woman should not usurp authority over the man, and should remain silent in the churches.

follow the bible, i wish i could better, it is so godly.

 

[Giggles4God]

I guess no one went and read the website I posted? *sigh*

 

[TomMann]

I guess no one went and read the website I posted? *sigh*

Giggles, I did go and read the site. I went and checked multiple versions of the bible and could not find one that used the word wife vs woman in 1 Tim 2:11 or 13 The commentaries I consulted agreed with the use of woman.

One further referenced 1 Cor 14:34-35
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[ChildrenOfLight]

Giggles, I did go and read the site. I went and checked multiple versions of the bible and could not find one that used the word wife vs woman in 1 Tim 2:11 or 13 The commentaries I consulted agreed with the use of woman.

One further referenced 1 Cor 14:34-35
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

it's true that any woman's defense against God's word regarding this topic is just another mockery of God's word to enable women to justifiably teach anywhere, or have such authority.

but, we didn't make what is righteous, God did.

and there is none righteous, save God

1 Tim 2:12
1 Tim 2:13
1 Tim 2:14-15

 

[jiggyfly]

I think what is really sad is so many have such a carnal understanding of the delegated authority within the body of Christ. Seeing that it must come from Christ I think it would be much more beneficial to learn to recognize /discern Christ authority vs carnal or demonic counterfeits rather than who Christ can/will manifest his authority through.


Personally I would really be surprised if God really cared who or what is in authority within the man-made Christian religious institution, it is a carnal counterfeit to the ekklesia that Jesus is building.
:shock:

 

[ChildrenOfLight]

I think what is really sad is so many have such a carnal understanding...

Personally I would really be surprised if God really cared who or what is in authority within the man-made Christian religious institution
:shock:

the man-made christian religious institution is oftentimes not godly or biblical at all. what matters to me is the bible, and not what man has done in a corrupt manner. thus, when i read words from the bible, and it says women should have long hair as a covering, which is her glory, i understand and take it in as truth, and then it becomes my knowledge of truth, which i am not afraid to admit it as truth to the public.

same with women as teachers, regardless of what others may believe or think.

carnal understandings are quite sad, but spiritual understandings are held throughout the bible's words. the word is the sword of the spirit

 

[evangeline]

perfectly clear?

I would question the claim in this thread that 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is perfectly clear to us.

It was written to Timothy who was ministering in Ephesus almost 2000 years ago - a time and culture VERY different to our own.

If you have a look at the culture of Ephesus of that time, this letter makes MUCH more sense. [I have written an article on "1 Timothy 2:12 in Context" on my website if you are genuinely interested in this issue.]

Also, ALL theologians who are being honest remark that the passage in 1 Corinthians 11 about women covering their head while praying and prophesying ALOUD during worship (v5) is very difficult to understand because of the cultural factors that are assumed here. No doubt the Corinthians church understood it, but we largely do not.

I'm interested in some of the conclusions that have been presented here. For instance where exactly in the Bible does it say that a woman can't be a pastor? And what does a pulpit have to do with Biblical New Testament Christianity where most meetings took place in homes? And how do you define preaching? Many theologians define New Testament preaching as proclaiming the Gospel. Are women forbidden from proclaiming and sharing the gospel? And why arbitrary rules (not backed up by scripture) such as a woman can be a missionary, and presumably preach and teach to people overseas but not in their home church???

In fact several women are mentioned by name in the New Testament who were leaders in their church: Priscilla, Phoebe, Chloe, Nympha, etc. (Some of this has been dumbed down by English translations and is much clearer in the original Greek.) [I have also written an article on "New Testament Women Church Leaders" which is on my website.]

Paul loved and valued his female coworkers and colleagues!!! It's a shame that this is not true for some who have posted here.

I am convinced that in years to come that people will be amazed at the controversay this issue of women in ministry has caused, just as we are now amazed that at one time racism, slavery and apartheid were somehow acceptable and even supposedly supported by certain scriptures.



evangeline

 

[evangeline]

woman or wife?

Further to what "Giggles4God" was getting at:

New Testament verses which speak about a singular man and a singular woman usually refer to a husband and wife.

In the Greek, the same word is used for an adult male and a husband; and similarly the same word is used for an adult woman and a wife.

So it is entirely possible that 1 Timothy 2:12 is speaking about a husband and wife situation.

Note that 1 Timothy 2:12 is not saying that women cannot teach men.

And the word often translated as "authority" in this verse is a whole other story!!!


evangeline

 

[SpiritLedEd]

the man-made christian religious institution is oftentimes not godly or biblical at all.

There have indeed been organizations that sprang up within the institutional church that have not been Godly or biblical. But, as I've argued in other threads, it is neither accurate nor fair to paint the etire institutional church with the same brush.

I believe that God is at work shaking the institutional church in order to rid it of ungodly and unbiblical ways on the part of errant groups or individuals. He is removing the cancers within her, but He wants the patient restored to health. The work is slow (by man's stadards), but it is happening. The pedophilia scandal that rocked the Catholic church and some Protestant congregations isn't over by a long shot. Where I live, a youth minister was arrested just a few weeks ago for having sex with a juveile girl from his congregation. Sexual sin took down Earl Paulk's organization in Georgia, Jim & Tammy Bakker's Heritage USA in North Carolina, and Jimmy Swaggart in Louisiana. Also, Oral Roberts University suffered a serious shaking recently when it was diiscovered that Richard Roberts was financing his extravagant lifestyle with the school's money. I'll bet that if I'd put on my thinking cap and dig into newspaper archives, I could come up with additional examples.

SLE

 

[stephen]

So today at work I saw the front page of the Troy Record with the Title: "Answering Call" "First woman priest is ordained at St. John's"

Of course I didn't get a chance to read the article, but the cover showed an older woman with very short hair in front of a man priest...

So... I'm not outraged or anything, maybe this post belongs in the ethical/morality issue topics, but aren't women supposed to be silent in the churches and cover their heads while praying and ask whatever they want to their husbands regarding church at home (for men are to be teachers only)? According to corinthians (2nd I think, i cannot remember), this is so, so why go against Paul's God-inspired teachings? Churches are seemingly lulling further away from their initial intensions, imo, and it's really captivating me to the point of realizing the end (of this world) has gotta come soon.

I currently do not attend any churches, and when I did first become a believer a little over a year ago, I did, and became quite emotional. I cried like a baby a few times, and felt too embarrassed to go, because nobody acted as I did. I fell hard into the Lord's word, and respect it greatly due to my mass research and epic search for truth.

Even Thessalonians says to prove all things unto thyself, and that is what I've been doing.

So my point is why did I see women chatting away like chatty kathys in the church? One man I'll quote actually had nerve to say 'God isn't in the church anymore'. I don't believe this because God is everywhere (omnipresent), but if I were God, I would wish the church obeyed the Bible more thoroughly, and held teaching-sessions daily, rather than weekly (with more bible-readings as well!).

OK, i'm done venting and must sleep.

Sorry to offend anyone, I just wanted to open a kind discussion

Why a female priest (against biblical teachings)?

Also, why call the priest 'Father'? Isn't our Father, the one and only Father in heaven? (And then there's the earth-daddy of course)

Peace unto you, and grace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

-nick

Hi nick.

Forgive me when I say that it is late Sunday p.m. here in the England....We have enjoyed ministry blessings at church a.m. P.m. we had a New Year Party with fellowship and food.......and much joy together in the Holy Ghost.......I was pleased that my 10 minute 'humourous spot' was so well received....as the years go by new material becomes harder to find.....but Jesus always helps me

I saw your post days ago.

The most important thing in ministry....is blessing, relief, salvation....folks being saved, healed, restored, forgiven and going on to enjoy this life knowing/serving Jesus.....God said to Abraham "I will bless you....and you be a blessing" This blessing is unique....and comes alone from the Lord God Almighty......via His son Jesus.

Kathryn Kulmen, Ami Semple McPherson were women who became reknown in the U.S.because they were a blessing to so many. That is the criteria....being a blessing in such saving way.......If a lady has got something from Jesus....folks will become aware

Your query which came to the fore in England 15 years ago, my opinion then was to make the point that Jesus chose 12 men.

He had the option to choose at will......But He chose twelve men.

The Church of England now has woman Priests....God bless them. We can be thankful that the ancient C. of E. doors are being kept open for worship.......The Church of England Prayer Book is a masterpiece of literature, rich in scripture, clearly portraying the depravity of man, and the redemption provided by God alone.