Why does God allow evil?

[PhoenixRising]

if sin blocks out the voice of god, then gods voice would reach no one. because we are all sinful wretches

NO. We WERE all sinful wretches. The minute we accepted the atonement of the blood of Jesus, the Bible says we became a new creation in Him.

We became as new, cleansed of ALL sin. We may still sin because our flesh is in constant war with our spirit but it doesn't mean we are sinners and we feel awful when we grieve God's spirit.

We are alive and new in Christ washed clean by and in His blood and the old "man" was nailed to the cross with Christ.

So, NO, we are NOT wretched sinners anymore. We are saints (God's children) who happen to sin now and again. But when we do, we recognise this and we're repentant before our Father, crying out for forgiveness.

A sinner is neither aware of God, as easily convicted by his/her "conscience" nor does he/she really care. A sinner also doesn't care to confess his/her sins to God, much less ask to be forgiven.

We are children of the light, not of darkness. Remember this and start seeing yourself the way that God sees you, as His much loved child, holy and without blemish...because of Jesus' obedience till the Cross.

Be blessed in His name.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Adam and Eve were punished with Death, pain and suffering for not following God. But how many more were slain because they did not come under God's approval?

God is not evil. If He is evil, how do you explain the blessings that come to you every day from His creation? How do you explain the origin of the sunshine that warms you, the rain that gives you water and nourishes the ground, or the delightful sound of birds chirping in the early morning? How do you explain an all-powerful Being who wanted to share His love with others and thereby brought you to birth through your parents; who gave human beings the power to love? He wasn't required to do that. How do you explain the multitude of accounts in the Bible of His compassion for the downtrodden, the oppressed and the weak?

Like my friend Jiggyfly, I wonder why you are here.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[PhoenixRising]

something i can't understand:
I can't understand why a god who desires every man to be saved would give to those men a free will that he knew they would use for evil. what purpose would god have to give men a free will, that he knew they would use for evil, except to save some and condemn others. man's free will can do nothing but condemn because it is corrupted by our sinful nature. so by giving a sinful man a free will they are automatically condemned and unable to save themselves

That free will is also what allowed you say Yes to God when His spirit started to woo you. By that free will, each time we choose rightly, God is pleased and glorified. That's a really good thing.

Because of that free will, God knows who truly loves Him because we chose to do so and to willingly serve Him, never having seen Him face to face.

Also a very good thing...God is glorified and pleased, since He chose us and we chose Him right back! Free will and all....

 

[TallTexan89]

Like my friend Jiggyfly, I wonder why you are here.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

I've read through this thread and seen this question posted quite a few times, wondering why Slich and cman77 are here. This question is over doubtful things. Instead how bout we ask ourselves how we can serve Slich and cman77. I invite yall to ask any questions about Christianity, God, the Bible, etc. and also make any statements that depict what you believe in and where your faith is so we can open up in discussion of how to better share the Good News with yall.

Cman77, You addressed three points that concluded with the question of why would God give man freewill if He knew that it was going to lead to evil. I don't know the exact answer to this question but I believe I can lend a new perspective.

How can you possibly understand how truly good the Good News is unless you truly experienced how bad the bad news was?

John Piper is quoted saying "God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him."

A picture comes to mind of me walking through a vast, dry, desert. I have no shelter from the sun, no food to give me strength, and no water to quench my thirst. I am struggling to make it through this desert on my own. Finally I make it to a house where I stumble and fall on its front steps and knock on the door. A man opens the door and sees me in my tattered, wretched shape. He kneels down to me and hands to me a cool glass of water. This one glass of water renews my strength, shelters me from the blazing sun, and quenches my deepest thirst for satisfaction. I appreciate this one glass of water in this time of my deepest need more than I ever could have had I been walking all along through an oasis.

The desert is my life that has been surrounded and consumed by sin.
The man who opened the door is my savior Jesus Christ.
And only through Him was I able to accept the glass of cool water which happens to be God Himself.
Now I am more satisfied in Him having been delivered the Good News after experiencing the terrors of living through the bad news.
Through my own satisfaction He is now most glorified in me.

That's how I find it best explained for my own understanding but please I invited you to discuss it further until you find an answer that brings you to know the satisfaction of His cool water.

 

[cman77]

Cman77, You addressed three points that concluded with the question of why would God give man freewill if He knew that it was going to lead to evil.

that was not the question i was getting at. the question above was leading into a different one. i was simply saying that the free will god gave man is not able to choose christ because it is corrupted by our sinful nature (a nature that is in complete rebellion against god) i don't believe that we have a free will when it comes to being saved or not. i know most people disagree with that but thats what i believe based on what the bible says about our sinful nature. we are dead in our sin. not sick not weakened, but DEAD. a dead man cannot make any choice but to remain dead. we need a miracle worker. that is christ. but it has nothing to do with us choosing him, because we cannot choose him. our free will is keeping us dead in sin. god must resurrect us before we can follow him. and that choice belongs to God not man

( points 2 and 3 of my last post are not positions that i hold, but many others do and thats why i used them)

 

[Boanerges]

that was not the question i was getting at. the question above was leading into a different one. i was simply saying that the free will god gave man is not able to choose christ because it is corrupted by our sinful nature (a nature that is in complete rebellion against god) i don't believe that we have a free will when it comes to being saved or not. i know most people disagree with that but thats what i believe based on what the bible says about our sinful nature. we are dead in our sin. not sick not weakened, but DEAD. a dead man cannot make any choice but to remain dead. we need a miracle worker. that is christ. but it has nothing to do with us choosing him, because we cannot choose him. our free will is keeping us dead in sin. god must resurrect us before we can follow him. and that choice belongs to God not man

( points 2 and 3 of my last post are not positions that i hold, but many others do and thats why i used them)

Do not under estimate God. You simply have a misconception about the lost hearing the Shepard's voice and coming to Him. God not only foreknew man's fall but pre-ordained an answer:
<dir>Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
</dir>It is this sacrifice that removes the barrier between man and God. Jesus died for all (1 John 2:2) and all who call on His Name shall be saved (Romans 10:13).
It is not a matter of folks lacking the ability to come but more a question of their willingness to come. Most would rather be their own self serving god than yield their heart and life to the Living God.

 

[jiggyfly]

something i can't understand:

1. God knows all things past, present, and future. he knows everything we will do

2. He gave us a free will and, because he knows all things, he knew that we would use that free will for evil.

3. he loves us all and wishes that we would all be saved and go to heaven

I can't understand why a god who desires every man to be saved would give to those men a free will that he knew they would use for evil. what purpose would god have to give men a free will, that he knew they would use for evil, except to save some and condemn others. man's free will can do nothing but condemn because it is corrupted by our sinful nature. so by giving a sinful man a free will they are automatically condemned and unable to save themselves

God's intent towards mankind is for us to experience Him and this includes His forgiveness, mercy and grace. If man had never fallen away from God by disobenience how could man possibly experience these attributes of Father?

 

[Slich]

Why are you here at TalkJesus? What are you looking for?

Where does it state that this forum is for Christians only?
Do you turn away all those who are interested in hearing about your beliefs? Is it wrong for man to be interested in something such as religious discussion, especially here where it is "for the grace of God"?

^^There is your answer. :wink:

If you dislike my presence here, I will await for your PM. Otherwise, allow man to breathe?

 

[jiggyfly]

Where does it state that this forum is for Christians only?
Do you turn away all those who are interested in hearing about your beliefs? Is it wrong for man to be interested in something such as religious discussion, especially here where it is "for the grace of God"?

^^There is your answer. :wink:

If you dislike my presence here, I will await for your PM. Otherwise, allow man to breathe?

Seems to me that you are very bitter towards God because of your circumstances and that you blame Him rather than take any responisbility for your condition. Just my opinion though.:wink:

 

[Slich]

and that you blame Him rather than take any responisbility for your condition. though.:wink:

I take many responsibility for my condition. Here lay some xamples for your perusal.

If I had not have drank excessive Cola and Frozen Sugar drinks throughout life, I perhaps would not have come to diabetes.

I used to take codeine as it were candy. It is not God's fault my kidney has issues.

God did not consume excessive sugar drinks, nor take codeine. SO, therefore I point the finger to one person. Me!

I hope that assisted your opinion somehow.

SC

 

[SpiritLedEd]

by saying god CAN'T interfere with our free will, you are putting limitations on god. the god of the bible has no limits and nothing is impossible for him. another thing. if god wants to be heard he will be.

Spinningisfun's statement that God can't interfere with our free will is accurate but incomplete. We believe that God is perfect in the absolute sense of the word. Hence, all of His decisions and actions are perfect. That means that His perfection and the decisions/actions that arise from it cannot be altered. So, He cannot logically interfere with our free will if we have not given Him influence in our decisionmaking.

This also applies to your comment about God being heard if He wants to be heard. In addition, God isn't stupid. He won't waste time talking to people who aren't going to listen .

SLE

 

[SpiritLedEd]

God does force himself on people. the easiest example of that is the Apostle Paul. here is Paul riding to Damascus to persecute and kill the christian church. then all of the sudden he is knocked off his horse and blinded by a brilliant light. he was converted on the spot. it was not his choice though.

In Philippians 3:5-6 Paul gives us a brief autobiography that, I believe, answers this statement. Christians and Jews have the same God. Unlike most other Pharisees, Paul was truly zealous about serving God, but, he was resisting the Messiah. It took strong measures to get his attention because there were deep seated but mistaken Pharisaical beliefs in him that needed to be uprooted.

SLE

 

[PhoenixRising]

I take many responsibility for my condition. Here lay some xamples for your perusal.

If I had not have drank excessive Cola and Frozen Sugar drinks throughout life, I perhaps would not have come to diabetes.

I used to take codeine as it were candy. It is not God's fault my kidney has issues.

God did not consume excessive sugar drinks, nor take codeine. SO, therefore I point the finger to one person. Me!

I hope that assisted your opinion somehow.

SC

I'm so sorry to hear about your health issues, Slich.

Remember that God's name amongst many others is Jehovah-Rapha....The Lord Who Heals.

He CAN heal you, y'know?

 

[paganmystic]

wow !!!!

It is interesting how so many things become over weighted merely a thought or idea.

Alot of good scriptural references were used, the fact that our disobedience is actually the critical point. God does not allow evil, our gift of choice is what allows us to follow after evil. Our need for wealth (personal gain), the want for power, personal self gratification, these attributes block us from God and prevent the Holy Spirit from leading, comforting and teaching us. This is what Jesus promised as a promise from our Father in Heaven John 14:16, John 16:13-15. This is today.

That gift of choice was given to Adam & Eve, the choice was; The Tree of Life, eternity in the Garden of Eden or The Tree of Good and Evil. Through coercion they chose the Tree of Good and Evil. Genesis 3:17 defines exactly our level our disobedience, then the result Genesis 3:22-24.

So God does not allow evil, we choose it, nor is He restricted from interfering. If God interferes He will remove the choice we have; To follow Him or not.

 

[Boanerges]

Exactly, God created good and evil so that we may choose. No one wants the object of their love to have to come to them but rather to want to come to them.

 

[jiggyfly]

So are we now saying that it is not in God's power or ability to control, stop or prevent evil?

 

[paganmystic]

Thank you Boanerges, such a simple concept but yet lost on sooo many people. That is why I'm a Christian and not religious, There is only room for Jesus in my heart and life, which was my choice. The one I made freely, and that is the whole point. Each of us have to make that same choice or be a part of that evil around us.

God Bless you

 

[Boanerges]

If anyone said that I must have missed it.
Satan himself is a junkyard dog on a chain. But God gave man choice from obeying in the garden or following his own will and on.
God does not tempt but permits temptation and created the tempter.

 

[jiggyfly]

If anyone said that I must have missed it.
Satan himself is a junkyard dog on a chain. But God gave man choice from obeying in the garden or following his own will and on.
God does not tempt but permits temptation and created the tempter.

PM said,

So God does not allow evil

, and you agreed saying

exactly

So which is it? Either God allows evil, God doesn't allow evil but He can't stop it or God doesn't allow evil and so it doesn't exist. Unless there are some other options I'm not aware of. Pleas try and clarify.

 

[Boanerges]

That gift of choice was given to Adam & Eve, the choice was; The Tree of Life, eternity in the Garden of Eden or The Tree of Good and Evil. Through coercion they chose the Tree of Good and Evil. Genesis 3:17 defines exactly our level our disobedience, then the result Genesis 3:22-24.

This was the part I was focusing on when I was stating my agreement. I honestly thought I had quoted that selected text.