Eldership - For life?

[ekimr]

Hi All,

What are people's thoughts on the position of eldership. Has anybody ever left (or considered leaving) eldership and would happily share their thoughts (either through forum or private message) about any quandries they went through / dilemna's in stepping down.

In very brief - it is a tough calling, and one that seems to be dragging me down in enthusiasm for the church I am serving and also perhaps has the possibilties of years ahead of despondancy rather than revitalised worship / learning / dedication / ability to serve in other ways, that perhaps might suit my abilities more!

Thanks

E

 

[jiggyfly]

I was an elder in a couple of the churches we attended back when we participated in religious liturgy. In two of the cases they were very offended that we were leaving, they seem to take it personal, but it is understandable, after all it is a carnal system.

Now that I have stopped participating ( several years ago) I find that being an elder in the body of Christ is much different. Much like the difference between a family structure and an institutional structure. As one matures in a family more responsibility is given over the younger members, it's much different than what is common in the religious instituion, ambition is not the motive behind it.

I can expound much more but it may lead in a direction other than what your searching for so I'll stop for now:wink:

 

[jakes]

May i share my stepping down from deacon!

Ekimr. I have been a deacon in a church for two and a half years. I was offered deaconship way to soon, if I understand the Word of God correctly in 1 Tim 3. The same usualy happens with the elders (bishops). They also are appointed prematurely! Good word for this. I am not Englosh so please pardon spelling mistakes. 1 Timothy 3 gives us the guidelines to qualifications the MEN need to become deacons and elders.

We are discussing my situation and why I stepped down. I been appointed as a deacon, I served the church with all I got, but then I read this... 1 Tim 3:9 ... Holding the mystery of faith in a pure consience.... I did an inward investigation, and looked at my consience it was not pure. I was already disqualified! Then I asked myself... what is the mystery of faith? ... I did not even know what it meant let alone holding it! Again I am disqualified!
Then I went to the head-deacon. I told him that a clean consience is only clean if a person does not sin! And what can he tell me about the mystery of faith. He did not know what I was talking about.
He said.... "Man, Cobus! If we have to have that qualifications we all fail to be deacons and we all should resign!"
I know that was my confirmation. I had to get a clean consience and learn from God what the mystery of faith is!
So I handed the head-deacon the letter of resignation.

As God is a God of Order, he also has levels in Order. Deacon is the lowest office in the church. Bishops (elders) are the ones useually coming from the matured deacons, well schooled in the Word! That is why their qualification states that they have to be "apt to teach" 1 Tim 3:1,2,3,4,5,6. And let me tell you this is no small feat. This "apt to teach" have to be wise men! Godly wise with the Wisdom of Jesus. Because they would have to give answers in the Word, about any verse in the Word. If I ask what 666 means they would have to show me in the Word what it means! Any question any person may ask about God they would have to know, and SHOW!
Well emagine what a Pastor should be. Or an evangelist, or a prophet! If you want to study their office, look at Eph 4:11,12,13.
I still do not qualify to be even a member of the church, but may God has His way with me, and then I will be made able to serve Him as He is worthy, in the office He predestened me for, if I am one of the predestened ones!
Cobus!

 

[jiggyfly]

I still do not qualify to be even a member of the church, but may God has His way with me, and then I will be made able to serve Him as He is worthy, in the office He predestened me for, if I am one of the predestened ones!
Cobus!

Your statement here seems strange to me, I looked at your profile and it says you have been born-agian 13 years, is that true?

Jakes, what do you believe the qualifications are for becoming part of the body of Christ?

Do you see a difference between the body of Christ and the church?

 

[Boanerges]

Hi All,

What are people's thoughts on the position of eldership. Has anybody ever left (or considered leaving) eldership and would happily share their thoughts (either through forum or private message) about any quandries they went through / dilemna's in stepping down.

In very brief - it is a tough calling, and one that seems to be dragging me down in enthusiasm for the church I am serving and also perhaps has the possibilties of years ahead of despondancy rather than revitalised worship / learning / dedication / ability to serve in other ways, that perhaps might suit my abilities more!

Thanks

E

Hi E! Where would we be if it were not forour elder brothers and sisters in the Lord?:shade:
Serving the Lord in any capacity is a calling. If He wants you to serve as an elder He will supply the strength and He will do the molding. Sometimes this requires a breaking of our old self and will. To be an elder or deacon is to be a servant which is a high place of honor in the Kingdom of God. So feeling (inside the parameters of the Word) adequate or inadequate is immaterial. The real question is this what does He want. If He is leading you to serve then do so with a glad heart no matter the circumstance. If He is not then by all means stop.
The bottom line is this; we are to die to our old selves and seek His will for our lives above all else. When we submit to Him and the molding and shaping is done we will find ourselves in a wonderful place; the very ceneter of His will for our lives.
I am praying for you now.
Many blessings in Jesus wonderful Name,
your brother Larry.

 

[jakes]

jiggyfly thanks for your interest!

What do I see is the qualification. Repentance! 100%. And the only church I am interested in is the Body of Christ! It is the only church He maintains! The others are for men by men. God's is a Holy High Priest for holy men! 2 Peter 1:21.
I am getting qualified, because i am busy with 1 John 3:3. The purification! This is a deep study but i am sure you know this.
No man can even worship God! Only Jesus can satify God with a holy life! So as long as I am here, and I am, then Jesus is absent!
If Jesus is here, I will be absent, I will be with the Father, on the other side of the cross of Jesus! Gone! Dead! Holy! Perfect! In God! Not from this world! Many more statements from Bible, shows that a "Spirit for spirit" swop had taken place. This can only happen after the spirit had repented 100%.
Saints are people that already stopped sinning, but they need to be perfected, so they are perfected by perfect teachers...Apostles Pastors etc. With what are they perfected... The Spirit of Jesus!
I started my Way (Jesus is the Way) 13 years ago, and Paul took 13 years to get to be a member. So maybe that is why the Lord said "Soon son, you get to keep it" Meaning soon He will baptize me into his Body! Remember... Those that are sanctified and He that sanctifies, are all of One! We are One with him from day one, but we are only given membership, after the class is dismissed! I hope you understand my friend!
Cobus.

 

[jiggyfly]

What do I see is the qualification. Repentance! 100%. And the only church I am interested in is the Body of Christ! It is the only church He maintains! The others are for men by men. God's is a Holy High Priest for holy men! 2 Peter 1:21.
I am getting qualified, because i am busy with 1 John 3:3. The purification! This is a deep study but i am sure you know this.
No man can even worship God! Only Jesus can satify God with a holy life! So as long as I am here, and I am, then Jesus is absent!
If Jesus is here, I will be absent, I will be with the Father, on the other side of the cross of Jesus! Gone! Dead! Holy! Perfect! In God! Not from this world! Many more statements from Bible, shows that a "Spirit for spirit" swop had taken place. This can only happen after the spirit had repented 100%.
Saints are people that already stopped sinning, but they need to be perfected, so they are perfected by perfect teachers...Apostles Pastors etc. With what are they perfected... The Spirit of Jesus!
I started my Way (Jesus is the Way) 13 years ago, and Paul took 13 years to get to be a member. So maybe that is why the Lord said "Soon son, you get to keep it" Meaning soon He will baptize me into his Body! Remember... Those that are sanctified and He that sanctifies, are all of One! We are One with him from day one, but we are only given membership, after the class is dismissed! I hope you understand my friend!
Cobus.

I think that I am understanding your position. Seems you believe that you must earn your position in the body of Christ and that more work is required than just Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

How do you interpret this scripture?
Colossians 1:18-22
Christ is the head of the church, which is his body. He is the first of all who will rise from the dead, [fn] so he is first in everything.

For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross.
This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, yet now he has brought you back as his friends. He has done this through his death on the cross in his own human body. As a result, he has brought you into the very presence of God, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.

 

[jakes]

Col 1:18-22. Let us read this and hear God!

Jesus is the head! (my body does what the head tells it to do). So does the Body of Jesus, that body is 100% obedient to Jesus. And that Head can only do holy work. His working worketh mightily in the members. Col 1:29.
He is also the firstborn from the dead! I have not died yet, and I am the only one that is allowed to crusify myself on the cross! This crusifixion is hard work. Jesus was the first one to the cross, the preeminence, and also to the resurrection. I follow Him to the cross, to die, and He will also resurrect me in, or better put into - Him, as He did with the Firstborn Jesus! Why? Because it pleases the Father that in Him all fullness dwell (the whole church)! Every reborn from God is full of God's salvation and Spirit. Both the crucified me, and the regenerated me, would now be in God, with Jesus. This Jesus did to present me to the Father clean and whole , to be perfected through the rebirth!
Only then am I fit to be a tool for God to do as He pleases!

I will share one mystery with you! And may the Lord of heavens and earth bless us both with this Truth!
Jesus died for our sins, and every person that is reconsiled through the cross is reconsiled fully! This means God does not have to spend more grace on us, because His blood cleansed us from ALL unrighteousness. The doing and the power of sin! Jesus does not only wash you clean, he keeps you clean! And the moment you are clean, He hands you over to God, to sanctify FULLY! And what God sanctified, the wicket one cannot touch! Before Jesus nobody could be sanctified to the degree we can be kept apart, or away from sin. Jesus' cross and His blood (flesh) stands between all His brothers and sisters and the works of sin.

He is in them, and they are in Him, and in Him is no sin. Because He is in them, there is also no more sin in them! Both are perfect and holy.

I am still here, and He is still outside me, leading me. Jesus is my Way, and the Spirit is leading me in His Way to the cross. Sin by sin we walk the purification Way! And when I repented from ALL sin, Jesus will let me through Himself, into Father. Sin is this side of the cross, there is no sin on the other side. Only Father and all the other holy people. The Body of Christ! All holy and perfect is on the other side of the cross. If I am there, God might even say to you..... "Cobus died long ago, it is only Jesus that lives in me!"

If you ask me whether there is more work done than the cross of Jesus, I have to say yes! Jesus' cross and death washes us clean, but His resurrection keeps us clean. And it brings the Life God wants us to live. One that is holy and without sin! That is why God may say...Be Holy for I am Holy! He knew all who repent, and the ones He gave Jesus would be made Holy by the only Holy Spirit...Christ Jesus!
What and thorough and powerful God we serve! I praise Jesus for the cross, and for the Baptism He baptize with!
May i reach His cross, and may He baptize me. Save me Lord, with your complete salvation. May Your will be done in my life. Matthew 5:48 is your will Jesus! Amen!

 

[jiggyfly]

Jesus is the head! (my body does what the head tells it to do). So does the Body of Jesus, that body is 100% obedient to Jesus. And that Head can only do holy work. His working worketh mightily in the members. Col 1:29.
He is also the firstborn from the dead! I have not died yet, and I am the only one that is allowed to crusify myself on the cross! This crusifixion is hard work. Jesus was the first one to the cross, the preeminence, and also to the resurrection. I follow Him to the cross, to die, and He will also resurrect me in, or better put into - Him, as He did with the Firstborn Jesus! Why? Because it pleases the Father that in Him all fullness dwell (the whole church)! Every reborn from God is full of God's salvation and Spirit. Both the crucified me, and the regenerated me, would now be in God, with Jesus. This Jesus did to present me to the Father clean and whole , to be perfected through the rebirth!
Only then am I fit to be a tool for God to do as He pleases!

I will share one mystery with you! And may the Lord of heavens and earth bless us both with this Truth!
Jesus died for our sins, and every person that is reconsiled through the cross is reconsiled fully! This means God does not have to spend more grace on us, because His blood cleansed us from ALL unrighteousness. The doing and the power of sin! Jesus does not only wash you clean, he keeps you clean! And the moment you are clean, He hands you over to God, to sanctify FULLY! And what God sanctified, the wicket one cannot touch! Before Jesus nobody could be sanctified to the degree we can be kept apart, or away from sin. Jesus' cross and His blood (flesh) stands between all His brothers and sisters and the works of sin.

He is in them, and they are in Him, and in Him is no sin. Because He is in them, there is also no more sin in them! Both are perfect and holy.

I am still here, and He is still outside me, leading me. Jesus is my Way, and the Spirit is leading me in His Way to the cross. Sin by sin we walk the purification Way! And when I repented from ALL sin, Jesus will let me through Himself, into Father. Sin is this side of the cross, there is no sin on the other side. Only Father and all the other holy people. The Body of Christ! All holy and perfect is on the other side of the cross. If I am there, God might even say to you..... "Cobus died long ago, it is only Jesus that lives in me!"

If you ask me whether there is more work done than the cross of Jesus, I have to say yes! Jesus' cross and death washes us clean, but His resurrection keeps us clean. And it brings the Life God wants us to live. One that is holy and without sin! That is why God may say...Be Holy for I am Holy! He knew all who repent, and the ones He gave Jesus would be made Holy by the only Holy Spirit...Christ Jesus!
What and thorough and powerful God we serve! I praise Jesus for the cross, and for the Baptism He baptize with!
May i reach His cross, and may He baptize me. Save me Lord, with your complete salvation. May Your will be done in my life. Matthew 5:48 is your will Jesus! Amen!

Well we definitely disagree I see no scriptural support for your belief of a gospel of works and self righteousness and scripture actually teaches the contrary to your post. There are a few others here at TJ who believe in a works based gospel. There are many threads here at TJ so hope you enjoy them and grow.

 

[Boanerges]

Works are good and profitable but no basis for salvation. These scriptures plainly declare their value and also palinly declare that they are not the basis of salvation:
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7] That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8This isa faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

 

[jakes]

A warm hearted thanks Jiggyfly

The only work I do jiggyfly, is to walk the road of repentance, all the rest is His work. Is repentance really work, or is it pleasure, I am not really sure. Some sin seems to stick harder than others, but if i think on it deeply, they all did fall away easely when the Lord removed them. And what does the Word say... 1 Thes 5:23,24.
Thank you Jiggyfly, I am sad that we disagree, but I can see you do have a peaceful way about you, and i thank Jesus for that!
You know Jesus wants us to agree in One Spirit, and accord, and that is why I am sad! We all read the Word of God, and we cannot agree? We all should have the Same Teacher, and He teaches only One Gospel, why do we disagree?
I find the more time a person spends in the Word, the lonlier it becomes here on earth, but the more you Love the Word you read! And the more you Love that Bible, there seems to be more peace in your heart! It is really true that the Word is a sword and it cuts you away from all the doctrine of men. Sinful men teaching it is not so bad to be a sinner, as you can do nothing about it!
Oh, how unfair was Jesus when he said... Matthew 5:48.
Well, I believe if a person brings his whole dirty bag of a life to Jesus, He would do something about that! Even if the man was red as ...Isaiah 1:18,19. My obedience, what is that? Repent!! Repent!! All the disciples and Jesus started preaching twith the word... Repent! Is it work, Jiggyfly? Is repentence work? Some say it is hard work, and I just wonder, would you say to repent from a sin is work?
Thank you for the good wishes, there is no thing as selfrighteousness, not even God is selfrighteouss, He just is righteous. And always has been, our righteousness is in Jesus, when He is in us! Not when we need his cross, but when we recieved His Spirit! thet happens after the cross! No 1. Repent from all sin. No 2. Jesus baptize with Spirit!
It was rewarding to talk to you, and I am a richer person to know you, thank you for the friendship!
Jiggyfly, I am searching, and may the Lord still keep us friends after I found. I will find, because the Lord promises...Those that seek, shall find. I seek His Spirit in me, and my spirit in him. John 17. Would you do one thing for me in a deep quiet time with the Lord? Would you read John 17, slow and deep, and I pray Father, that He would show you what His Son asked Him to do for us! Please my friend, do it in absolute deep quiet time with the Holy Spirit! I Love that prayer, it shows me how complete God's salvation is!
May we be UNITED in Christ Jesus my friend! Then we will be One!

 

[PhoenixRising]

Jakes,

If you truly believe that God's salvation is complete, why do you feel the need to add or do more?

Jesus finished his assignment here on earth. He was a man who was born to die. And He said it himself before He gave up the ghost at Calvary..."IT IS FINISHED". No one can follow Jesus to the cross and no one can add an iota of ANYTHING ELSE to what He already did on that cross.

When God looks at you and me, He sees us through the righteousness of Jesus and He inputs no sin in us. It's as if He's looking at Jesus Himself. When we fall from grace and we sin, as we do every now then because of our humanity, the Bible says He's faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

What more do you want from God? He certainly doesn't want you adding to anything His Son already did (not that you can anyway).

You can never earn, deserve or work your way closer to God. You can't do it. The Bible says that our very best is still as filth before a Holy and Righteous God. All you have to do is believe what Jesus already did and also His words...."My burden is easy and my yoke is light". He meant them just the way He said them.

Stop over thinking things and ask God to show you where you're missing it, because I sincerely believe you are. ANY sins committed in the past, ANY sins committed today, (the present) AND ANY sins yet to be committed in the future were ALL nailed to the cross, thanks to Jesus. All praise to Him; Glory to God in the Highest!

You repented already when you were saved and redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. Whenever you fall, all you need to do is come before God and confess and ask to be forgiven in the name of Jesus. God willingly, generously and graciously does so and He throws those sins in the sea of forgetfulness, to remember them no more.

God IS good and His mercy is from everlasting to everlasting upon those who fear Him! You're one of those Cobus, like all of us who love and call Him Abba, Father. God is always kind and ever loving and full of compassion towards us.

If a sin has become a stronghold for you, then you need to cry out to God and also maybe go on a fast, to reclaim victory over it, remembering that it's also been nailed to the cross at Calvary.

It's wonderful that we strive to please God, as we should because we love Him so. But you don't have to work so hard and judge yourself so harshly. God doesn't do that to His children. Besides, He knows our heart and that's what He looks at. He's also very pleased by our Faith, our Trust and our Belief in Him.

Because He sees His Son in us when He looks at us, He sees us as Holy and blameless. Isn't God just amazing? Is Jesus not just awesome and so, so worthy and deserving of our praises and eternal gratitude?? We were saved by Grace and that grace floods the earth as we speak.

Learn to lean on Jesus more and just receive that peace He offers. Rest in and on Him, Cobus. All is already well.

 

[jakes]

Phoenix! The love in you shines through in your post.

Phoenix, wow! I can feel the love you share this with! Thank you, and please if you do not feel the broterly love I answer with back, then you missed my heart!
This you teach here is truly in the Word, and we know the Word is Truth. Phoenix There is just to many things in my life, that is not in line with the Word! I love to use myself, then nobody has the right to kick me off! Because I am only pointing a finger at myself!

Phoenix, I been a bad boy, very bad, but that is not what God wants me to be! What does He want? Half bad? nope Half bad He says is also very Bad. What about singulary bad, one sin? Nope He says one sin is all sin! If we transgress one law it is sin, and all sin is bad! So what does God want? He wants Matthew 5:48. Well if He wants it He would surely get it! Why because He is God!

How does He get it? Now you have to be well schooled in the Word, and if you doubt any point ask me and i will show you the scripture.

1. I am sinner. Walking the wrong road in the wrong direction. After the wrong god.
2. God calls sinners, me, to repent. That is to leave the raod i am on, get on another Way and walk in the opposite direction!
3. Those that hears, will follow the voice! His voice in the Word! Calling us to our calling, a holy calling in Christ.
4. This Voice is the LEAD of the Holy Spirit. And He can only lead to God!
5. The Spirit leads us on the Way, Jesus is the Way. Path to righteousness. Along the Way we pick up Truth/Word in our hearts.
6. Every step is determined by the obedience to repent from a sin! The next step cannot be taken before the previous one is made.
7. The end of the Way, Jesus on the cross, will represent you with Jesus the Life! This is the ONLY Life that can please God. The Life of Jesus, and He lives it out in us! Our lives will get hid in God, away from sin and this world! And in him is no sin!

If the new me is in Him and He is in the new me, where is the sin in this picture? The old has gone, the new is here! The new is to the full stature and measure of Christ. Where is the sin in this fulness? Eph 4:11,12, 13.

I think of another scdripture. How many people preach what you preach, and how many believes that all children of God cannot sin, not ever again? If we do a count, remember the least ones are more likely the ones that has it right. Much more people are misled by false doctrine than the ones that follow the Truth!

The art of preaching truth, is not to contradict one verse in the Word. If we say we will always fall short of God's perfect calling we contradict to many verses in the Word!

It is almost giveng people the right to sin, and some will see this as encouragement to not repent. May God forbid me to ever encourage sin. I am not Satan that is what he does. Satan says, it is ok to sin. Jesus says if you love Him you will keep His Word, and Whose Word is this? .... Be ye therefore thou perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Jesus did not say we should strive to keep his Word, he said... John 14:21. And fortunately, Matthew 5:48 is one of the commandments.
Thank you for your time Phoenix! Remember one thing, i used to believe what you believe now! I thank God, that i have now placed my trust on Christ Jesus, to even select me as His residence!
Amen!

 

[Boanerges]

Repentance is good and needful but it is not our ability to repent that will save us.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


That word perfect (Matthew 5:48) means mature and complete, nothing more and nothing less. We are to walk in a place of absolute dependence on and total submission to the Holy Spirit who leads and guides us in all truth.
Our righteousness is Christ.
Our wisdom is Christ.
Our sanctification is Christ.
If we believe that we will every be anything less than dependent on His grace we will miss Him by a mile.
1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we but find ourselves in Christ, if we walk in the Spirit then we will be pleasing to God. Like Christ Himself we will only do what we see the Father do and then only in the Holy Spirit's power. The works these vessels do will be His and He will get all the glory.

We can know that we are saved:
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
This knowing is a place of peace and rest in Him.
Our judgment is different from that of the lost.
Our works will be judged. What was done in our strength and leading will be consumed (wood, hay, stubble) and what is done by Him through us will remain (gold, silver, precious stones) yet we ourselves will be saved.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[jakes]

Boanerges, Let us look at one verse you qouted.

Titus 3:5.
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, ... Note these people did do works of righteousness... And in 1 John 3 God says that the righteous are righteous as He is righteous. PERFECT!
but according to his mercy he saved us, Note here that these righteous were saved! Without salvation they would not have been righteous, perfect!
by the washing of regeneration See, they were washed 100% and regenerated 100%. Nothing of the old dirt or dirty nature was evident.
and renewing of the Holy Ghost. You just confirmed the parts I tried to show! See the Word is perfect. And so is All of God, even His children! It is the Spirit that renews, and He can only renew to perfection!
Who does He renew? The ones that persevere till the end of sin in their lives! Washed away ALL sin!
May His will be done in all of us sharing love/Word/Truth and Jesus, here! Amen!

 

[Boanerges]

My friend, Christ is made my righteousness and my own righteousness is a filthy rag. Good works are a natural thing as we abide in Christ for His very life flows in us producing those works. So as the above verse (Titus 3:5) declares they are good and necessary but not the basis of our salvation.


Again Christ is made unto us:
1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Our spirit is made new at salvation (Eze 36:26, Eze 11:19 ) our body is new at His coming (1Jn 3:2 ) . Christ Himself was crucified at Golgotha or the place of the skull (Mat 27:33-35) ;what needs renewing day by day is our soul (mind, will, intellect, emotions). This is done as we read and understand His Word by the revelation of the Holy Spirit.
Let me phrase what I am trying to say to you differently.

As a branch we must allow the life of the Vine to flow in and through us; it is only as the life of the Vine does so that life is manifest and fruit is produced.
Any effort the branch does on it's own is devoid of life .
The branch that seeks to rebuild its own self will amount to nothing and will wither and die.
There is but one way to manifest this sinless life you seek:
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Again, like Christ (our perfect example) we must walk in the Spirit; walk in total submission to the Holy Spirit and only at the Father's direction; as we do we allow the power of God to produce good works in our lives. Anything else is a work of religious flesh and is wood, hay and stubble to be consumed. God takes no pleasure in the legs (strength) of a man ( Psa 147:10) and no flesh shall glory in His presence (1Co 1:29).

So then we walk in the Spirit allowing God to be God; allowing the Holy Spirit to direct and empower our steps. One step outside of that and we will find that like Adam in the garden we are following our own will and volition.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

It is about yielding and allowing the very life of God to be manifest in us. Such a person will manifest the Divine nature of the indwelling Holy Spirit and will by his new nature manifest holiness. These things can never be worked up or contrived by man but must flow from God Himself. His power, His leading, His working, His glory.
Dying to self is submission to the Spirit. Life in Christ is submission to the Spirit. Let Him work in you my friend and you will see Christ revealed.
Many blessings in His Name,
your brother Larry.

 

[jakes]

Larry, you are a blessing to me! Thank you!

You see, I knew at least one person would understand. Larry I will praise the Lord that He arranged for us to meet. As you can see, I only had bad things to say about myself, but only have good things to say about Jesus, because if I have to give credit to Any One, it would have to be Jesus. He loved me 2000 years ago, and today, I am starting to love Him as He is worthy. I am still no good, but at least I know it now. And you say I should let God work in me, and I thank you for the confirmation. He started the work on me, I will trust Him to finish the work on me, so that He can be my Master, and I be His obedient servant!
The only thing I want in this World, is not from this World. I want to be not from this World! I Love the Lord, and I believe He deserves to be loved, to the level He deserves, and that is to the level He loved me! May the Lord Christ Jesus, pour out His love in me, so that I can love Him as much as He deserves!
I trust my Lord, to complete the work on me, "Please Lord save a wretch like me. Amen"