And the Greatest of These Is...

[HisAngel]

Whenever I have had someone try to slash me with the truth of the word of God, I have heard the Holy Spirit say to me, “What is the WHOLE truth?” He brought me to 2 Corinthians 10 verse 5, which states, “casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,” What is the whole truth? There is now grace for every aspect of the Christian life. We are not bound by the law, but set free to fulfill it. There is now no chain unbreakable, no bondage unremoveable, and absolutely no sin too great for Jesus to cleanse. Jesus came that we might have life, more abundantly. He set us free, free indeed.

Anything and anyone that tries to condemn you for anything is out of step with the will of Jesus Christ, because 2 Corinthians 5:17 states, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” When you speak this verse over someone who is bound in sin, you set them free from the accuser of the brotheran and show them a better way. The devil wants us to believe that we will never improve, never be good enough, so why not give up? Instead of helping the accuser, we need to be light in the dark places. When you go up to someone you can see loaded down with sin and say, “Romans 12:2 states, ‘And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.’ I believe God wants to set you free from your bondage. Let me pray for you, invite the Holy Spirit into this situation, and release you to be free in Jesus today.” How much more does that reflect the nature of Christ to the church He died to save?

Why would God want us to be free? I have heard so many people with good intentions try to bind others with the word of God to limit their freedom with theology about lawlessness, and yes lawlessness leads to death, but I would like to present another option. If you are free, fully transformed by the Holy Spirit, you are also free to love people and set others free. The first and second commandments are to love God, and love one another, and you can not love people when all you see are their flaws. Someone with a critical spirit will not unify with their brothers and sisters as they should, and condemnation only serves to create offences and heavy loads that kill love.

Something that set me free from changing others through accusations and trying to condemn others into righteousness was accepting my position in God’s army. God is the holy judge that judges the hearts of men, I am not. Jesus is our redemption from hell and the giver of freedom to love one another, I am to be like Him. The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, it is my job to ask Him. My position in this battle is one of prayer and love. I do not have to worry about correcting those around me if I have enough faith that my prayers are heard, and the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to change those around me from the inside out. All I must do is stand where God told me to stand, flow all my concern and compassion into my prayers, and watch those around me changed without ever binding or condemning one of them.

When I am free, I am able to find balance in the love of God. 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 states,

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.

Love is the perfect balance of truth and grace, and it never fails. Is the greatest gift God has given us. God is love, Jesus was God’s love manifest on this earth, and when we walk in love we are highly effective in changing a lost and dying world. The scary thing about love is it removes our control, and it takes more time to change a soul through love than condemnation. I have to get closer to someone to love them, and I can no longer remain antiseptic and lofty. I must come to their level, and love them where they are at with encouraging words. I will face attacks from the enemy, because love is powerful, and he cannot stop it. I will also face the onslaught from other Christians stating I am too liberal, or any other discouraging words they will bring. Jesus’ sacrifice was enough, I am free indeed, and John 3:17 shows that Jesus did not come to condemn them so why should I?

If you want to be free today, seek Jesus, listen to Him, and follow Him. As you do, you will hear that His heart cry is love, and you will not be able to look at those around you the same again.

When I was young I thought what I knew about the Bible and could resight was what mattered, but as I grew older I realized how much I loved was far more powerful. I hope you leave encouraged today.

 

[Coconut]

Anything and anyone that tries to condemn you for anything is out of step with the will of Jesus Christ...

I almost like this message, but it is unbalanced in the Word...love does not only speak positive, pleasing, promising words...love will speak the truth...sometimes the truth is not pleasing to the ear....


For example, the following words spoken by the Holy Spirit may sound like they are 'accusing', but in truth, by the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, they are cutting to the heart of the matter...

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness, where your fathers put me to the test and saw my works for forty years. Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, 'They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.' As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest.'" Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.


Luk 17:3 Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him...

1Ti 5:20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.

2Ti 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

Tit 1:9 He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers...

Tit 1:13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith...


Tit 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority.

 

[HisAngel]

I did not say that to walk in love was to flatter others, or to be lawless. I was trying to say that love is the balance of truth and grace so when we speak in love we are far more effective than when we speak in either extreme alone.

Truth by itself is out of balance, because truth by itself is the law. If we live by the law alone we come under condemnation, because all the law does is show us where we went wrong, and the wage of sin is death. By the law there is no redemption.

Grace by itself is also out of balance, because grace by itself is lawlessness. Grace only forgives and redeems, but without a standard for behavior the person just wanders aimlessly through life never overcoming, and recommitting sins.

Love is the balance of truth and grace, because it does not tolerate evil, but rejoices in the truth. It also is not proud, rude, or puffed it. Someone who works in love is not going to slaughter a fellow Christian with truth, because that would be arrogant. They will come up along side their brother or sister, redirect them, and help them. We are not the righteous looking for sinners to correct. We are redeemed sinners who know the way out.

I also have a personal reason for correcting people gently. We will be judged at the same level that we judge others. I am sensitive, so I don't want God to come down on me fire and brimstone. That would leave me on the floor in a fetal position. I deal gently with others, because I want God to be gentle with me. I am merciful with others, because I want God to be merciful with me.

My major point is that love balances truth and grace, because truth cuts off the sin, grace redeems and restores, and relationship strengthens and rebuilds. This is why love never fails.

 

[jiggyfly]

I did not say that to walk in love was to flatter others, or to be lawless. I was trying to say that love is the balance of truth and grace so when we speak in love we are far more effective than when we speak in either extreme alone.

Truth by itself is out of balance, because truth by itself is the law. If we live by the law alone we come under condemnation, because all the law does is show us where we went wrong, and the wage of sin is death. By the law there is no redemption.

Grace by itself is also out of balance, because grace by itself is lawlessness. Grace only forgives and redeems, but without a standard for behavior the person just wanders aimlessly through life never overcoming, and recommitting sins.

Love is the balance of truth and grace, because it does not tolerate evil, but rejoices in the truth. It also is not proud, rude, or puffed it. Someone who works in love is not going to slaughter a fellow Christian with truth, because that would be arrogant. They will come up along side their brother or sister, redirect them, and help them. We are not the righteous looking for sinners to correct. We are redeemed sinners who know the way out.

I also have a personal reason for correcting people gently. We will be judged at the same level that we judge others. I am sensitive, so I don't want God to come down on me fire and brimstone. That would leave me on the floor in a fetal position. I deal gently with others, because I want God to be gentle with me. I am merciful with others, because I want God to be merciful with me.

My major point is that love balances truth and grace, because truth cuts off the sin, grace redeems and restores, and relationship strengthens and rebuilds. This is why love never fails.

I have to disagree with you theory of "love is the ballance of truth and grace" got any scripture to support it?

Truth by itself is out of balance, because truth by itself is the law. If we live by the law alone we come under condemnation, because all the law does is show us where we went wrong, and the wage of sin is death. By the law there is no redemption.

Grace by itself is also out of balance, because grace by itself is lawlessness. Grace only forgives and redeems, but without a standard for behavior the person just wanders aimlessly through life never overcoming, and recommitting sins.

John 14:6 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

This seems very contrary to the scriptures also. Please show scriptures that support this and in the future please show and reference scriptures in your posts.:wink:

 

[Coconut]

I was trying to say that love is the balance of truth and grace so when we speak in love we are far more effective than when we speak in either extreme alone.

I`m sorry, but your 'truth left wing - grace right wing' theology push both truth and grace into some kind of partisan opposition to love... yet according to scripture love cannot be separated from truth or grace. When Scripture says "the greatest of these is love", its does not mean "love stands alone"...

God is love...love is full of (or consists of) grace and truth.....

Joh 1:14 The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father's unique Son, full of grace and truth.

 

[HisAngel]

I am not unscriptual, just not religious. I worship Jesus/God, not tradition. As I have gotten to know God I have found that God really is love, and in perfect balance between truth and grace. Here are some of the scriptures I have, but it would take a longer list to exhaust all the support there is for how the law, grace, and love interact.

I haven't gotten to the material in 1 John, because I looked at this list, and decided this was probably enough to satisfy curiosity. If you want more read all of Romans, and 1 John was great for understanding the charecter of God is love, and the importance of love.

Grace does not set boundaries for actions:

Romans 4:15
because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression
The law offends, grace balances the law (also law points out sin, so where there is law a lot of sin is revieled):

Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
We are not bound by the law, but freed through Jesus to fulfill the law:

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

When we come to Jesus the wage of sin (death) was paid and we are no longer bound by the death. When we are made a new creation we die to our sin/washed clean, so we are free to serve God righteously rather than through legalism of the letter of the law:

Romans 7:6
But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

The law tells us where boundaries are for actions, and tells us where we go wrong:

Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

More exactly:
Romans 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The flesh wars against the spirit. The flesh wants to sin, the spirit man wants righteousness, and this is why we need the grace Jesus purchased:

Romans 7:13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Why God is the judge:

Romans 2:
1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

Romans 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Want more? Read Romans. It is dense with this.

Grace without the law is lawlessness (commonly accepted, but if you want I will prove this too, just ask). Lawlessness leads to death:

1 John 3:4
[ Sin and the Child of God ] Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

Matthew 7:23
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Matthew 13:
The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Pure grace won't save you, because the law tells you where you made a mistake. Grace redeems through faith/acceptance of Jesus' sacrifice:

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Do things in love:

1 Corinthians 16:
14 Let all that you do be done with love.

Love balances, and contains the law:
Romans 12:9
Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

Be gentle:

Romans 12:10
10 Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another;
Love through faith completes the law in us:

Galatians 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

1 John 2:10
He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.

I have to go to work. If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Coconut]

"I am not unscriptual, just not religious. I worship Jesus/God, not tradition..."

That sounds good, but what do religion and tradition have to do with wether or not it is permissable to shun the "whole" counsel of God.

Yes you are being unscriptural, and that is clearly shown in this statement that sums up the theme of your posts:

"I do not have to worry about correcting those around me if I have enough faith..."

You point to Romans yet your statement proposes that the author of Romans [Paul] did not have "enough faith" for he certainly corrected those around him, and taught in his writings for the followers of Christ to do the same.

You said the Holy Spirit led you to 2 Corinthians 10:5 which states, “Casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ”

What is the whole truth? Keep on reading...

2Co 10:6 We are ready to punish every act of disobedience when your obedience is complete.

Now does that really sound like a man who does not correct, reprove, or rebuke or exhort anyone? According to your argument, Paul aught to only have "stood where God told him to stand, flow all his concern and compassion into his prayers, and watch those around him changed without ever binding or condemning one of them."

James 5:19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

The above scripture would prove it to be impossible to restore someone who is wandering from the TRUTH without correction. Truth will "hold firm to the trustworthy Word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." Tit 1:9

Eph 4:25 Therefore, stripping off falsehood, "let each of us speak the truth to his neighbor," for we are members of one another.
Eph 4:26 "Be angry, yet do not sin." Do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
Eph 4:27 and do not give the devil an opportunity to work.
Eph 4:28 The thief must no longer steal but must work hard and do what is good with his own hands, so that he might have something to give to the needy.
Eph 4:29 Let no filthy talk come out of your mouths, but only what is good for building up as the need may be. This way you will give grace to those who hear you.

Love does not build upon "the high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God"...

Love first tears down by "casting down anything that exalts itself against the knowledge of God" that it might build up, or "bring every thought into the obedience of Christ, until your obedience is complete"

 

[HisAngel]

As for your first part, it's nitpicky so I will not respond.

My point is, what part of "love never fails" is unclear? Yes we are sometimes forced to be strong in our words, but often times to be harsh is overkill. From what I have seen, many times Christians do not even try mercy, and just jump to judgement and condemnation. That is incorrect. If you live by the sword you will also die by it. We live our lives the way we want God to treat us, because what we sew is what we reap and we treat others the way we want to be treated. If you want to sew harsh words, judgement, and wrath, that's your perogitive... As for me? I will correct how God leads me, and God is love. He almost always begins correction gently and progresses if we do not listen. When God is screaming at you, typically He did not start there. If you are His sheep it shouldn't take much to turn you from sin. If we love Him, we obey Him. If it takes someone screaming at a person to turn them from sin, there is something definately wrong their heart.

I don't think you really understood what I was saying, because I am complete agreement with your scriptures, and do not see how they conflict with what I was trying to say. God is perfect. God is both full of truth, and gracious, and He is called love. Knowing this how can you say love is not the perfect balance of truth and grace?

As for “casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ," I think it is just the way God used it with me the other day that you are not understanding. Christ came to redeem the world from sin. He was God's love manifest on this earth (1 John 4:10). If theology or legalism gets in the way of Jesus redeeming souls it is a high thing and must be cast down. If you do not keep the greatest commandments you need to cast down what is in the way so that you can function properly. If the most important thing on your agenda is arguing, then you are using your time here on this earth in vain. Jesus came to save the lost, and that is our mission. If we do not love our brothers and sisters, we do not love God (1 John 4:20), and we can't love the lost. If we have this heart condition we are out of the will of God.

I really have no idea what you are arguing about.

 

[HisAngel]

Here is a visual, because I think I must have been confusing.

Put pure 100% grace on one end of a spectrum. Another word for this is lawlessness. This is death, because the lawless will not inheirate the kingdom.
Put pure 100% truth on the other end of the spectrum. Another word for this is legalism. This is death, because the truth is the wage of sin is death, without grace we cannot be saved. Game over.
We cannot live at either extreme, and most people are somewhere in the middle trying to find balance.

Now God is perfectly in the middle, because He is the righteous judge, and He is also full of grace. So God is the perfect balance of truth and grace.

God is love. Love never fails. The greatest commandments are love. I think God was giving us keys to solve this problem of balance, because if you do things through love you won't murder your brothers and sisters with truth, and you won't let them go into lawlessness and die either. Love never fails.

Quick, simple, easy, to the point. That's how He laid it out for me, but I have a feeling I put one stray word here somewhere that someone is going to get offended over...

 

[Coconut]

To go back to the beginning and quote you again:

"Anything and anyone that tries to condemn you for anything is out of step with the will of Jesus Christ..."

Is this keep in step with the will of Jesus Christ of Scripture, or the will of another Jesus or just the will of HisAngel?

Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be condemned! What we have told you in the past I am now telling you again: If anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that person be condemned!


To further quote you:

"They twisted my words, twisted the Bible, and if the Bible blantantly disagreed with them, they put their fingers in their ears and sang a ditty to drown me out."

http://www.talkjesus.com/daily-devotionals/29651-what-have-we-become.html

What you have accused others of is exactly what you are doing.

Even the casual reader could observe why some of your statements do not line up with scripture, in light of the Scripture offered that shows exactly where you are wrong. Yet you, who obviously consider yourself to have enough understanding to teach, when kindly reminded of what the Scripture says, manage to avoid correction by developing a sudden inability to comprehend what you are reading.

I get the feeling that when Scripture gets in the way of your Theology, you always manage to swerve around it and keep on going...

You would benefit from learning the difference between those who are defenders of the faith, and the legalistic, traditionalists as you call them. In light of this one thread, I highly doubt that everyone who ever corrected you on a Christian forum was just a blind, deaf, and dumb religious zealot.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

and absolutely no sin too great for Jesus to cleanse.

If this is true, Jesus was either totally stupid or patently lying when He spoke of the unforgiveable sin (blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) in Mt 12:31-32.

You'll probably call me nitpicky too. That's o.k.. I suggest, however, that you examine your "theology" more closely and carefully before you try to sell it to us any more. It's quite apparent that you slapped this "theology" together pretty quickly. It won't stay afloat. It has too many leaks.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)