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Preservation of scripture

Doc

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
109
Several days back, I was asked by a member to comment on my ideas on the preservation of scripture. That request was made in a thread that is now "closed" so I will offer my thoughts here - in a very brief and simplified format. There is far more to it than what I will write here, but hopefully this will provide a basic answer to his question.

I will begin by saying that INSPIRATION (2Timothy 3:15-17) without PRESERVATION (Psalm 12:6-7) is useless. And vice versa.

2Timothy 3:15-17 is probably the most quoted passage of scripture to support the doctrine of INSPIRATION as it is the only time the word INSPIRATION is found in the New Testament. But what you may find interesting, is that it has absolutely nothing to do IN THE CONTEXT to the original God-breathed autographs so commonly referred to in the discussions and debates on the inspiration and preservation of scripture.

The statement “by inspiration” in it’s context, has to do with the Old Testament scriptures that Timothy had been taught as a child, which also in the context are called the Holy Scriptures.

These absolutely were NOT the original writings of the Hebrew language. Actually, a very strong case can be made for the fact that Timothy very likely was taught from Greek translations of the Hebrew copies. No matter what he studied, at best he was taught from copies - many times removed over centuries - from the original Hebrew writings.

As we can see from scripture itself, the results of original inspiration - 2Peter 1:21 - cannot be limited to the original autographs, but must also be extended to copies of those originals. 2Timothy 3:15-16 makes that fact clear. So, when folks make the claim that ONLY THE ORIGINALS WERE INSPIRED - that is an incorrect statement - based on scripture itself.

As a result, if God did preserve His Word through these copies - which He must have if we have His Word at all - He certainly allowed admixture of errors to be included in these copies. The evidence of that fact is irrefutable. So, the question must be asked, “Can God preserve His Word even when copyist errors are present and variant readings exist among the copies and resulting translations?” The answer is a resounding YES!

This also supports the teaching of those who claim that original inspiration - “God breathing on” - does not necessarily have to produce flawless perfection in the writing of the original record, for God to have successfully communicated His Word to mankind.

Now, follow me closely. It was the WORDS of God that were inspired. It wasn’t about the characters or characteristics of the alphabets of the languages in which they were originally penned - it wasn’t about the materials they were written on - it wasn’t about the ink that was used - it wasn’t even about the men that God used - it was about God’s WORDS.

And whether God’s WORDS are recorded in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin, German, or English, they remain God’s WORDS.

Words exist in any language for only ONE PURPOSE. And that is to communicate THOUGHTS. If a word doesn’t communicate a thought, it is useless. That’s why the words of scripture do not produce God’s thoughts to the natural man.(See 1Corinthians 2:10-14; 1Thessalonians 2:13; Matthew 13:10-16; to cite just a few.) It is the THOUGHT the Holy Spirit produces, based on the words that are written, that produces the understanding in the believer. Without that ENLIGHTENMENT, the Word of God makes no sense - NO MATTER WHAT LANGUAGE IT IS IN, or how learned or educated the reader. That is one of the reasons there exists so much confusion today among different denominations, factions, cults, etc. Too many of these folks are trying to teach the printed word without the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit of God.

Likewise, no matter what LANGUAGE the manuscripts are recorded or preserved in, the Holy Spirit will take the words as He has preserved them, combined with the prayerful work and scholarship of men of faith, and use them to give the believer the thoughts God wants him/her to have in their language through God-directed translations. This is - very simply stated - the work of preservation by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore all of the intricacies and technical nuances of translating and transliterating from one language to the next, etc., etc., is an interesting debate but doesn’t represent “the final answer” on the matter. Whether you have a KJV, ESV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, Luther, Tyndale, Coverdale, Erasmus, Latin Vulgate, et al, if you are a person of faith diligently seeking God’s will and truth for your life, YOU WILL GET IT. BLESSINGS. Doc
 
Thanks Doc

I have been musing on preservation, yet although I believe that God's Word is God's Word, inspired, preserved, I was finding it hard to get my head around it.

Your post here has greatly simplified things for me, and I couldn't find any fault with what you have posted.

It is notable that, with the exception of "Bibles" that have been deliberately altered in order to deceive (such as the JW "Bible" which has removed any reference to the second and third persons of the Holy Trinity), those translating the manuscripts have sought the Holy Spirit in translation.

So, if I read you right, my view that the Bible separated from the Holy Spirit (that is, without the working of the Spirit in its reading) is NOT the Word of God, but it IS the Word of God when the Holy Spirit speaks through the inspired, preserved Bible, is also what you are saying here.

Thanks,
Mark.
 
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I have been musing on preservation, yet although I believe that God's Word is God's Word, inspired, preserved, I was finding it hard to get my head around it.

Your post here has greatly simplified things for me, and I couldn't find any fault with what you have posted.

It is notable that, with the exception of "Bibles" that have been deliberately altered in order to deceive (such as the JW "Bible" which has removed any reference to the second and third persons of the Holy Trinity), those translating the manuscripts have sought the Holy Spirit in translation.

So, if I read you right, my view that the Bible separated from the Holy Spirit (that is, without the working of the Spirit in its reading) is NOT the Word of God, but it IS the Word of God when the Holy Spirit speaks through the inspired, preserved Bible, is also what you are saying here.

Thanks,
Mark.

Mark: It is a blessing to know that I may have helped clarify some things for you.

And, yes, there are certainly a few “adulterated translations” that were produced for the sole purpose of supporting a false teaching. You mentioned one of them.

As far as your conclusion from my post, I might say it a bit differently. Understand, the Word of God IS the Word of God whether the Holy Spirit bears witness to it or not in the life of an individual.

As an example, the w-o-r-d-s Jesus spoke that were understood by his disciples, but not by some others, were still the words of God even though the Holy Spirit was selective in giving understanding to what Jesus was saying. (Of course, why the Holy Spirit is selective is a whole different topic of discussion.)

So, having said that, if I have a valid translation of scripture on my coffee table, it is the Word of God no matter who picks it up. But it’s TRUTH is only EFFECTUAL in transmission to those the Holy Spirit gives enlightenment.

Did that help clarify your conclusion? Let me know if there is more you would like me to explain. I appreciate you brother. BLESSINGS. Doc
 
Mark: It is a blessing to know that I may have helped clarify some things for you.

And, yes, there are certainly a few “adulterated translations” that were produced for the sole purpose of supporting a false teaching. You mentioned one of them.

As far as your conclusion from my post, I might say it a bit differently. Understand, the Word of God IS the Word of God whether the Holy Spirit bears witness to it or not in the life of an individual. [Bold added by Mark of Faith]

As an example, the w-o-r-d-s Jesus spoke that were understood by his disciples, but not by some others, were still the words of God even though the Holy Spirit was selective in giving understanding to what Jesus was saying. (Of course, why the Holy Spirit is selective is a whole different topic of discussion.)

So, having said that, if I have a valid translation of scripture on my coffee table, it is the Word of God no matter who picks it up. But it’s TRUTH is only EFFECTUAL in transmission to those the Holy Spirit gives enlightenment.

Did that help clarify your conclusion? Let me know if there is more you would like me to explain. I appreciate you brother. BLESSINGS. Doc

Thank you Doc, yes, sometimes my words fail me and I did ponder what I had posted. I would agree with you that my original phrase was wrong. I would have been better to say that yes, the Word of God IS the Word of God, but it is only made to be the living Word when it is taken by the Holy Spirit to speak to the hearer/reader.

Now, it may be that this is always the case, as Scripture says that the Lord's word goes out and does not return empty.

What I am trying to convey, perhaps in a muddled way, is how the Bible cannot be taken as separate from the work of the Holy Spirit. He was present in the original inspiration, the continuing preservation, and the eventual reading by believers and seekers.

I do hope I am not confusing matters!

Mark.
 
I'm now taking my leave from this topic and the original threads by Carico and myself, as I feel a warning in my spirit that such talk about the Holy Spirit's Divine Truth could lead me down the wrong way if I continue.

I do, however, want to end by saying that these threads have taught me much that is valuable. I want to thank everyone who posted constructively.

The Lord has brought me full circle on this topic.

I have, since becoming a Christian, believed the Word (the Bible) to be Truth. An absolute, sure and infallible guide to God's Will for mankind.

During these discussions I have had comments that it is not necessarily truth, that translations can be erroneous etc. etc. During this period of seeking I have pondered these and at times have been led to perhaps agree to an extent. How Wrong!

I have come full circle, and know that the Bible is Truth, God's very Word, inspired and preserved. Different translations can shed new light on what is revealed. They may contain wording or phrases that I (in my limited understanding) prefer in a different translation. But God preserves His Word.

So, am I saying that these threads were worth nothing to me, considering that I now believe what I believed when I began? NO! I now have a far firmer grasp upon why I believe these things, which will hold me in good stead should others try to sway my belief in Christ's Enduring Word.

Thanks,
Mark.
 
I'm now taking my leave from this topic and the original threads by Carico and myself, as I feel a warning in my spirit that such talk about the Holy Spirit's Divine Truth could lead me down the wrong way if I continue.

I do, however, want to end by saying that these threads have taught me much that is valuable. I want to thank everyone who posted constructively.

The Lord has brought me full circle on this topic.

I have, since becoming a Christian, believed the Word (the Bible) to be Truth. An absolute, sure and infallible guide to God's Will for mankind.

During these discussions I have had comments that it is not necessarily truth, that translations can be erroneous etc. etc. During this period of seeking I have pondered these and at times have been led to perhaps agree to an extent. How Wrong!

I have come full circle, and know that the Bible is Truth, God's very Word, inspired and preserved. Different translations can shed new light on what is revealed. They may contain wording or phrases that I (in my limited understanding) prefer in a different translation. But God preserves His Word.

So, am I saying that these threads were worth nothing to me, considering that I now believe what I believed when I began? NO! I now have a far firmer grasp upon why I believe these things, which will hold me in good stead should others try to sway my belief in Christ's Enduring Word.

Thanks,
Mark.

Well, to God be the glory, dear brother. It is a blessing to know you have received the help you were seeking, yet, not surprising as the Lord is always a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. BLESSINGS. Doc
 
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