So, What Is A Christian?

[dchena]

I deleted my post, just didn't feel comfortable thinking outloud on-line, especially on this site.

 

[dchena]

same reason for deleting.

Doc,
To respond to your question, though - I don't think it matters what I think or believe. Or even my experience of what comes first. But my short answer is - only God makes a person a Christian. Christians are created and grown, and that's God's domain.

 

[RJ]

A Christian

Only a Christian can be "Born Again".
Only a Christian will be made perfect in the presence of God.
Then as Paul says, we will know Him fully as well as He knows us and we will see him Face to Face. Can't wait!

 

[Boanerges]

Good and helpful information, Bro. Larry. The time you invested to provide this information is much appreciated. You are indeed a blessing. BLESSINGS. Doc

You are quite welcome, the pleasure was all mine and I love you too in Jesus Name.
Man blessings,
brother Larry.

 

[Doc]

Doc, I don't believe that there is an adequate "small consensus answer" to your question. I, personally, would get to know the person, sit down with him/her, find out what their background is (Have they ever investigated Christianity? What has been their experience interacting with Christians, etc), praying for guidance along the way. Then I would attempt - relying upon the Holy Spirit's guidance - to respond to their questions/comments using Scriptures that relate to their questions.

I've learned that there is a process that takes place when a person comes to Christ, a process that involves a number of people over a period of time. My role is to be available for the Holy Spirit to use me in whatever way He chooses at whatever time He choses to put me before the people He wants me to draw to Jesus and tell me what to say.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

SLE: Thanks for your feedback. Apparently I have confused you. My intended question was not about what “method” you use to lead someone to Christ - it was about how you define what a Christian is based on Scripture. If I confused you, I apologize.

In addition, even though I realize there is not yet enough feedback to establish a meaningful consensus, my comment was simply based on what feedback we had at that time.

But my original question itself must have a valid, sustainable, objective, Biblical answer to it. Otherwise, we might as well all just “go fishin.“ I mean, if I were sitting across the dinner table from you, and asked you to take out your Bible and show me how the Bible defines a Christian, what verses would you take me to? Hopefully, this helps to clear up any confusion. BLESSINGS. Doc

 

[Hekuran]

The Bible doesn't define what a Christian is. The Bible says that the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. There are a few other references to the word Christian, which have already been covered in this thread. I don't detect any controversy over the definition of Christian as being a follower of Christ, Christlike, or adherent of Jesus.

Not having a tight biblical definition of "Christian" does not mean that we can all go fishing. The Bible reveals who God is, in his character, in his dealings with people, and in his plan of salvation for the world. Following Jesus is taking our place in that plan.

The key to the question, I beleive, is to be always seeking to know Jesus better. That is There are many ways of following Jesus – our callings are not all the same – but there is only one Jesus Christ.

I would suggest that a careful reading of the epistle to the Philippians may be a helpful place to explore what following Christ means. If anybody were to ask me how to follow Christ, I think I would probably encourage them to put their energy into knowing Christ, and to allow the specifics of following Christ to follow naturally.

I am sure that many of us could recite the kinds of answers that we learned in Sunday school. But I am leery of abstract answers. We know when we see someone committed to living a Christlike life. It may not be the same way as others express their commitment to Christ, but it is recognisable nevertheless.

I mean that following Christ for one person may mean devoting themselves to their family wholeheartedly; for another it may mean leaving their family for some other Godly purpose. Jesus himself required some to leave their families, and other to return to their homes.

But we, and the World, can recognise a follower of Christ when we see one.

 

[Doc]

The Bible doesn't define what a Christian is. The Bible says that the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. There are a few other references to the word Christian, which have already been covered in this thread. I don't detect any controversy over the definition of Christian as being a follower of Christ, Christlike, or adherent of Jesus.

Not having a tight biblical definition of "Christian" does not mean that we can all go fishing. The Bible reveals who God is, in his character, in his dealings with people, and in his plan of salvation for the world. Following Jesus is taking our place in that plan.

The key to the question, I beleive, is to be always seeking to know Jesus better. That is There are many ways of following Jesus – our callings are not all the same – but there is only one Jesus Christ.

I would suggest that a careful reading of the epistle to the Philippians may be a helpful place to explore what following Christ means. If anybody were to ask me how to follow Christ, I think I would probably encourage them to put their energy into knowing Christ, and to allow the specifics of following Christ to follow naturally.

I am sure that many of us could recite the kinds of answers that we learned in Sunday school. But I am leery of abstract answers. We know when we see someone committed to living a Christlike life. It may not be the same way as others express their commitment to Christ, but it is recognisable nevertheless.

I mean that following Christ for one person may mean devoting themselves to their family wholeheartedly; for another it may mean leaving their family for some other Godly purpose. Jesus himself required some to leave their families, and other to return to their homes.

But we, and the World, can recognise a follower of Christ when we see one.

Hekuran: I certainly appreciate your feedback. I find it quite meaningful.

At the moment, I would like to focus on your final statement. QUOTE: "But we, and the World, can recognise a follower of Christ when we see one."

This begs the question - which is the whole purpose of this thread - how does a person recognize a follower of Christ? Do they look like a Presbyterian - do they look like a Baptist - do they look like a Catholic - do they look like a good neighbor - do they look like a Puritan - do they look like a Mormon - do they look like a Jehovah's Witness - what is it that they look like? BLESSINGS. Doc

 

[Trishann]

Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ.

How does a person recognize a follower of Christ? By the fruit they bear.

God Bless, Trish

 

[Hekuran]

How does a person recognize a follower of Christ? Do they look like a Presbyterian - do they look like a Baptist - do they look like a Catholic - do they look like a good neighbor - do they look like a Puritan - do they look like a Mormon - do they look like a Jehovah's Witness - what is it that they look like? BLESSINGS. Doc

Do you not know the answer to this?

Trishann's reply is perfect. The Bible answers the question of how the world recognises Christ's followers in at least two places. Love and unity are the key.

By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
John 13:35

May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
John 17:23

 

[Doc]

Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ.

How does a person recognize a follower of Christ? By the fruit they bear.

God Bless, Trish

This takes us right back to the beginning of this thread. What is the VISIBLE BIBLICAL FRUIT produced by a genuine believer - and what are the Scripture references to support that? BLESSINGS. Doc

 

[Doc]

Do you not know the answer to this?

Trishann's reply is perfect. The Bible answers the question of how the world recognises Christ's followers in at least two places. Love and unity are the key.

By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
John 13:35

May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
John 17:23

You asked the wrong question. The question is, if that is the right answer, then how many have really been redeemed? Read 1Corinthians Chapter 13, meditate on what real Biblical love really looks like, and tell me how many professing Christians you know - including yourself - that measure up. BLESSINGS. Doc

 

[Trishann]

Doc I don't know if you read Hekuran reply but he has scriptures written down about the fruit.

Maybe if you have a concordance you can do a search on it. As you search I hope within your spirit you will find the answer that will bring peace to your questions.


God Bless, Trish

 

[Hekuran]

You asked the wrong question. The question is, if that is the right answer, then how many have really been redeemed? Read 1Corinthians Chapter 13, meditate on what real Biblical love really looks like, and tell me how many professing Christians you know - including yourself - that measure up. BLESSINGS. Doc

I was answering your question, how does a person recognize a follower of Christ? The Bible says that the Christians will be recognised by all the world on account of their love and their unity. My response does not touch on the question of redemption.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.​

I know many people, who though far from perfect, are recognisable as belong to Jesus Christ by these qualities. Praise God!

 

[Doc]

I was answering your question, how does a person recognize a follower of Christ? The Bible says that the Christians will be recognised by all the world on account of their love and their unity. My response does not touch on the question of redemption.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
​

I know many people, who though far from perfect, are recognisable as belong to Jesus Christ by these qualities. Praise God!

But is not a REDEEMED PERSON a Christian and a Christian a REDEEMED PERSON? Can you Biblically separate the two? BLESSINGS. Doc

 

[Hekuran]

But is not a REDEEMED PERSON a Christian and a Christian a REDEEMED PERSON? Can you Biblically separate the two? BLESSINGS. Doc

No, I don't think there is any biblical ground for separating the two.

The honest answer to your earlier question – how many have been redeemed – is that God knows.

Galatians 3:26-29

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise​

Maybe the simplest and most elegant definition of a Christian would be "belonging to Christ". Those who belong to Christ are heirs of all that is offered in the Galatians passage quoted above.

 

[Doc]

No, I don't think there is any biblical ground for separating the two.

The honest answer to your earlier question – how many have been redeemed – is that God knows.

Galatians 3:26-29

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise
​

Maybe the simplest and most elegant definition of a Christian would be "belonging to Christ". Those who belong to Christ are heirs of all that is offered in the Galatians passage quoted above.

AMEN, Hekuran! You have nailed it down tight. You have offered one of the most succinct Biblical answers to the question.

Too many times folks think of FRUIT as “behavior” - which some behavior is fruit, but not always. Jesus speaks to this in Matthew 7:21-23. What LOOKS like fruit, isn’t always. “Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.” The real FRUIT of a genuine believer - aka Christian - is their FAITH in Christ.

All kinds of folks go about doing all kinds of works in the name of Christ - even the cults. They believe they are a Christian because of their upbringing, some “sacraments” they’ve received, their denominational affiliation, their good deeds towards their fellow man, church membership, etc. Those things no more make a person a Christian than a child pretending to fly makes him an airplane.

A real Christian is someone who BELONGS TO CHRIST due to their faith in Him.

Thank you for your thoughtful input. I appreciate you. I pray that others who may read this thread will be helped in their understanding of what a Christian REALLY IS. BLESSINGS. Doc

 

[Hekuran]

Too many times folks think of FRUIT as “behavior” - which some behavior is fruit, but not always. Jesus speaks to this in Matthew 7:21-23. What LOOKS like fruit, isn’t always. “Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.” The real FRUIT of a genuine believer - aka Christian - is their FAITH in Christ.

I am not sure about your interpretation of fruit being faith in Christ.

The Bible passages that speak of fruit that I am most familiar read most naturally when fruit is understood as the works or behaviour that faith in Christ produces. I am thinking mainly of Matthew 7:15-19 Galatians 5:22 and Colossians 1:10.

"By their fruits you shall know them..." I cannot directly know or judge somebody's faith - that is for God alone. So Jesus says we should look at the results of a person's faith to know the source of it. I mean judge in the sense of being judicious about who we listen to or follow, not being judgemental.

Could you let me know a little more about how you came to your conclusion? Thanks.

 

[Doc]

I am not sure about your interpretation of fruit being faith in Christ.

The Bible passages that speak of fruit that I am most familiar read most naturally when fruit is understood as the works or behaviour that faith in Christ produces. I am thinking mainly of Matthew 7:15-19 Galatians 5:22 and Colossians 1:10.

"By their fruits you shall know them..." I cannot directly know or judge somebody's faith - that is for God alone. So Jesus says we should look at the results of a person's faith to know the source of it. I mean judge in the sense of being judicious about who we listen to or follow, not being judgemental.

Could you let me know a little more about how you came to your conclusion? Thanks.

Well, let’s begin where we left off. I cited Matthew 7:21-23 as an example that even though certain behaviors - “works” - appear godly or religious, they very well may be meaningless. In that immediate context, verses 16-20, the Lord gives us a very good object lesson. It has to do with the “kind” of fruit produced by a tree. When we go back to Genesis Chapter 1, we see on a number of occasions an absolute principle of reproduction (actually not discovered by man’s science until the 16<SUP>th</SUP> Century A.D. through the research of scientist Gregor Mendel) and that principle is everything living reproduces “after its kind.”

Now follow me. A genuine believer’s faith likewise also reproduces itself AFTER ITS KIND. That is, Christians reproduce Christians. Dogs reproduce dogs. Camels reproduce camels. Sheep reproduce sheep. Apples reproduce apples. Pears reproduce pears. And God’s people reproduce believers! That is, people of FAITH, reproduce people of FAITH. The fruit of FAITH, is FAITH.

And then to refer to one of the verses you cited, Galatians 5:22. One facet of the FRUIT of the Spirit - notice that the word FRUIT is singular, not plural - is FAITH. The FRUIT of the Spirit is like a gemstone, it is one singular jewel with many facets - in this case nine.

So FAITH, is an absolute part of the FRUIT of the Spirit. And, notice, it is not MY fruit. It is the FRUIT of the Spirit, therefore it is a work of God, not man. You see, the FRUIT of the Spirit is not a behavior, it is nine spiritual facets of the Spirit that resides in the believer, and they are all “spiritual” facets. Now, the outworking of this fruit is no doubt manifested in certain behaviors, BUT those “behaviors” can be counterfeited. And they often are. Jesus speaks to this repeatedly throughout the Gospels. The genuine article is determined BY WHAT IT REPRODUCES - and what it reproduces is people of FAITH. God works through me to reproduce people of faith. God didn’t just save me for my sake. He saved me also for the sake of others, as He works through me. The same is true for you and every other believer.

I trust this answers your questions. BLESSINGS. Doc
　

 

[Hekuran]

Ok. I appreciate the detailed reply. I'll give it some thought. My first response, though, is that it is simpler and more satisfactory to read fruits as the outward expression of faith - that is, in a life that honours God.

 

[Doc]

Ok. I appreciate the detailed reply. I'll give it some thought. My first response, though, is that it is simpler and more satisfactory to read fruits as the outward expression of faith - that is, in a life that honours God.

I certainly understand and appreciate your comment. And I certainly agree that genuine faith will always manifest itself in the life of the believer in a number of ways.

Also, consider this. When it comes to a life that honors God, what could honor Him more than the reproducing of faith in others? As I am sure you know, when it comes to pleasing God, the Bible says in Hebrews 11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please Him..." No matter WHAT we do, without faith God is NOT pleased. It is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him without FAITH.

Now, I know what I am about to say is “subjective” but my experience over a number of decades has shown me that people are more drawn to Christ as they observe the FAITH of a believer than they are by observing the WORKS of a believer. Every day, multitudes of people observe others as they give to charities, feed the poor, adopt orphan children, build church buildings, start orphanages, visit terminally folks in Hospice, etc. As commendable as those things are, very few people are persuaded to become a believer due to their observation of these good works.

HOWEVER, when folks observe a person who is terminally ill, or who has just buried a young spouse, or who has just buried a child, or who has lost their home and means of income, or all their worldly goods due to a natural disaster, or has learned their loved one has been killed in war - and yet their response to that tragedy is one of FAITH and trust in the Almighty Sovereign God whose way is perfect (Psalm 18:30) and they let all the world know they trust God by FAITH no matter what - now, that my friend, is a FRUIT that produces LIFE in others!

That is my experience. That is a practical application - "subjective" as it is - to the "objective" truth of Scripture. Thank you for “listening.” BLESSINGS. Doc