Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Calling priests "fathers"

Promasa

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
27
How do we call the priest our father and the book says "And call no man your father upon the earth : for one is your Father, which is in heaven.." (Mathew 23:9) ?

Lots of the Protestant annotators say that Christ has forbidden to call somebody on earth "father" , so they chose other titles like " respected" , "pastor" etc..

But the superficial and literal explanation to this saying of the Lord means that we should never call any human on earth "father" whether he was a man of religion(spiritual father) or no. Because only the FATHER*who should be called like this.

If we took by this tight explanation we would find Saint Paul has controvert Jesus commandment ( or he didn't understand it on the Protestant way !) because he says " For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" ( 1Corn 4 :15.) Here Paul calls himself "father" for those who he has begotten through the gospel. And he calls Timotheus and Titus "my son".

And John in his letter he uses word " little children " ( 1John 2: 12 & 14).

Also Paul calls our ancestors "fathers" to us ( 1Corn 10:1) "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud…".

And he uses title "father" to speak to the fathers saying "Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged "( Col 3:21 ).

And the Lord Himself in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus He mentions thatthe rich man talked to Abraham saying " Father Abraham, have mercy on me, andsend Lazarus,,," (Luke 16:24) and Abraham didn't answer him saying " don't you know that only God the Father*who should be called father?" but answered the rich man saying "Son" (Luke 16:25)


■ And if we continue to read Mathew 23 :10 we will find" Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ ". but Christ Himself called Nicodemus " a master of Israel " (John 3: 10 )" Jesusanswered and said unto him, Art thou amaster of Israel, and knowest not these things ? "
And in the Church of Antioch there were " prophets and teachers " (Acts 13:1 )

Paul mentions that God hath set in the church " teachers" : in " And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers" (Eph 4:11 ) .. " And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers,,," (1 Corn 12 :28).

So Jesus didn't mean we should not call anybody "father" but God the Father, or anybody "master' but Christ.

Saint Paul and all the church didn't understand this saying of Jesus as how some people try to understand nowadays.

The question remains : what did Christ mean from saying this ?
The occasion in which Jesus said this explains to us its meaning, because Jesus was talking about the scribes and the Pharisees and He was criticizing their practices andteachings and how they use title 'father' or 'master' . He says in
(Mathew 23 :2)" The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat ". and instead of teaching the law of Moses, they began teaching their own tradition(Mark 7: 8 + 9) " For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do .9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition " Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye" (Mark 7:13)

Therefore Christ was warning from using their positions in authority and their titles to make people around them disciples of them and of their traditions, not disciples of God and His law .

With the coming of Jesus, the men of religion had to teach " the apostles’ doctrine" ( Acts 2: 42) or "the doctrine of Christ" ( 2 John : 9) who He is the real "Master" and the real "Father" , and the men of religion are nothing but a living image of Him.

Saint John the Gold Mouth says " Because He (Christ) is the cause of everything, the cause of masters and the cause of fathers together "

Therefore every "teacher" and every "father" in the church is nothing but a living canal to deliver the teaching which came to him from Christ ' The Greatest Master' through the apostles, or in other words the "teacher" or the "father" in church is not the source of teaching but Jesus Christ Himself, through the Holy Spirit who is abided in the church . otherwise this teacher or father became under the same damnation that happened to the scribes and the Pharisees .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


* There's something I want to add, I don't know how much it will help giving further understanding of this subject but I love to mention it .

In Arabic word "father" means "Ab" as your father , my father it's "Ab". But when we speak to God and say Father, we use another word ( which has a different spellingand pronunciation) it's " AAb " *
word " AAb" means father but it refers ONLY to God.
So I can't use "AAb" to talk about/to my father or any father in this life , and of course priests are called "Ab"


■ Therefore the reason of calling priests "fathers" is not to give them honor or more respect than people or even few of the glory we give to God, not at all . The point of this is only to make the relationship more like father and a child, not a leader and a follower .

Because as we have fathers in body who raise us and teach us the rules and ways of life ,and look after us throughout our lives . the priests ( spiritual fathers ) are also the same, they raise us in Christ and teach us the ways of Jesus and look after us throughout our spiritual life to follow Jesus and reach the Heaven.

So let's not take Christ's sayings as list of words or rules and orders but open our hearts and mind to the real and deeper message which He is giving us. Because Jesus words are always very simple but the meanings and thoughts of His words are always much deeper than it seems

As Saint Paul says in 2 Corn 3: 6
" not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life "

The purpose of writing this is not criticizing one sect and defense the other ( because I don't talk in what I do not know, I only talk in what I learned and know ).

This was written as an honest and direct answer to those who have this question in their minds and I hope it will be clear enough to present the truth .
 
Last edited:
Therefore the reason of calling priests "fathers" is not to give them honor or more respect than people or even few of the glory we give to God, not at all . The point of this is only to make the relationship more like father and a child, not a leader and a follower.

It seems to me this statement is only humble sounding rhetoric, when history and the present age tells the truth about what men in the Priesthood expect in regards to reverence for these appointments.

Therefore Christ was warning from using their positions in authority and their titles to make people around them disciples of them and of their traditions, not disciples of God and His law .

But isnt that exactly what the Priesthood persists in doing by ignoring scripture and continuing to claim the office and title of Priest when a change in Priesthood took place with Christ?

Heb 7:11 Now if perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood-for on this basis the people received the law-what further need would there be to speak of appointing another kind of priest according to the order of Melchizedek, not one according to the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For when a change in the priesthood takes place, there must also be a change in the law.
Heb 7:13 For the person we are talking about belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is obvious that our Lord was a descendant of Judah, and Moses said nothing about priests coming from that tribe.
Heb 7:15 This point is even more obvious in that another priest who is like Melchizedek has appeared
Heb 7:16 who was appointed to be a priest, not on the basis of a regulation concerning his ancestry, but rather on the basis of the power of an indestructible life.
Heb 7:17 For it is declared about him, "You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."
Heb 7:18 Indeed, the cancellation of the former regulation has occurred because it was weak and ineffective
Heb 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we approach God.
Heb 7:20 Now none of this happened without an oath. Others became priests without any oath,
Heb 7:21 but Jesus became a priest with an oath when God said to him, "The Lord has taken an oath and will not change his mind. You are a priest forever."
Heb 7:22 In this way, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
Heb 7:23 There have been many priests, since they have been prevented by death from continuing in office.
Heb 7:24 But because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.
Heb 7:25 Therefore, because he always lives to intercede for them, he is able to save completely those who come to God through him.
Heb 7:26 We need such a high priest-one who is holy, innocent, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
Heb 7:27 He has no need to offer sacrifices every day like those high priests, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he sacrificed himself.
Heb 7:28 For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever.

I think this essay begs the question, is there a NT appointment [by God] for that of earthly Priests?
 
We have a High Priest and that is Jesus Christ! The established priesthood was abolished in the New Covenant and the priesthood of the believer was established.
If the Word of God says call no man father then why transgress the Word ?
 
Good studying sister.

Matthew 23:1-9

Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees

<sup id="en-ESV-23917" class="versenum" value="1">1</sup>Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, <sup id="en-ESV-23918" class="versenum" value="2">2</sup> "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, <sup id="en-ESV-23919" class="versenum" value="3">3</sup>so practice and observe whatever they tell you— but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice. <sup id="en-ESV-23920" class="versenum" value="4">4</sup> They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. <sup id="en-ESV-23921" class="versenum" value="5">5</sup> They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, <sup id="en-ESV-23922" class="versenum" value="6">6</sup>and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues <sup id="en-ESV-23923" class="versenum" value="7">7</sup>and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. <sup id="en-ESV-23924" class="versenum" value="8">8</sup> But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. <sup id="en-ESV-23925" class="versenum" value="9">9</sup> And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

KJV Commentary

7-12. Rabbi is from a Hebrew word (lit., my teacher). Master, i.e., teacher. Call no man your father, i.e., in a spiritual sense. This appears to condemn the use of the word “Father” used in addressing the clergy in the unreformed churches, and to render of doubtful propriety the use of the word Padre (Italian for “Father”) as a synonym for a chaplain. Masters, lit., guides or leaders, i.e., teachers. Servant means minister or attendant. Verses 10-12 are very typical of our Lord's teaching (cf. Lk 14:11; 18:14).

Matthew Henry's Concsise Commentary: v1-12

The scribes and Pharisees explained the law of Moses, and enforced obedience to it. They are charged with hypocrisy in religion. We can only judge according to outward appearance; but God searches the heart. They made phylacteries. These were scrolls of paper or parchment, wherein were written four paragraphs of the law, to be worn on their foreheads and left arms, Ex 13:2–10; 13:11–16; De 6:4–9; 11:13–21. They made these phylacteries broad, that they might be thought more zealous for the law than others. God appointed the Jews to make fringes upon their garments, Nu 15:38, to remind them of their being a peculiar people; but the Pharisees made them larger than common, as if they were thereby more religious than others.

Pride was the darling, reigning sin of the Pharisees, the sin that most easily beset them, and which our Lord Jesus takes all occasions to speak against. For him that is taught in the word to give respect to him that teaches, is commendable; but for him that teaches, to demand it, to be puffed up with it, is sinful. How much is all this against the spirit of Christianity! The consistent disciple of Christ is pained by being put into chief places. But who that looks around on the visible church, would think this was the spirit required? It is plain that some measure of this antichristian spirit prevails in every religious society, and in every one of our hearts.
 
ok Mr Chad thank you for your time reading and replying. that's so kind
God bless you
 
We have a High Priest and that is Jesus Christ! The established priesthood was abolished in the New Covenant and the priesthood of the believer was established.
If the Word of God says call no man father then why transgress the Word ?
ok Boanerges thank you for your comment , but with all my respect i'm not transgressing the Word of God. i believe i was quoting from the Word and that's clear in my essay. I don't make up things from my mind and my views.
Again thank you and God bless you.
 
Last edited:
NP- we are free to disagree

Mat 23:9 AndG2532 callG2564 noG3361 man yourG5216 fatherG3962 uponG1909 theG3588 earth:G1093 forG1063 oneG1520 isG2076 yourG5216 Father,G3962 whichG3588 is inG1722 heaven.G3772

The Word used in the original Greek is the same in both instances of this scripture and I have to abide by the written Word. I am by no means telling you how to live your life.

From the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

G3962
πατήρ
patēr
pat-ayr'
Apparently a primary word; a “father” (literally or figuratively, near or more remote): - father, parent.


Have a blessed day my friend.
 
Last edited:
This is an interesting thread.

Promasa: Your study is fair in many respects. I cannot say I agree/disagree with it...it is food for thought.

Yet I do believe the clerical terms are an expression of heretical beliefs that entered the Church with the creation of the Romanist Church under Constantine (who, it should be remembered) became a "Christian" in order to gain military and political advantage.

The Bible does recognise that some in the Church have greater authority (called Bishops in the KJV or Elders in other translations). Likewise "some are called to be apostles, some teachers". These people deserve our respect.

I agree that Paul spoke of Timothy being his son, and himself as "like a father". Yet to have a bestowed title of "Father" I believe contradicts the Word of God, and it is notable that this title is lacking in Bible-believing churches today. (I say this knowing of my ignorance of terms of address in many parts of the world, so I speak only with regard to western churches.)

I think this essay begs the question, is there a NT appointment [by God] for that of earthly Priests?

The NT is clear that there is no "special and select" Priesthood as a separate part of the Church. ALL believers are part of the "royal priesthood". We all have a role to play in the Body of Christ.

Yet, we are all different members, and some are called to positions of authority (although this isn't to be derided, nor envied, for "Let not many of you be teachers, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation").

This thread deserves some thought. I will be interested to read further insights on this.

Mark.
 
We don't place "Fathers" on the same level as God the Father Almighty, it's more of a respect/honorary title.
 
Last edited:
Jesus told us not to call anyone on earth 'father' because:

1) Once we are born again of the Holy Spirit we now have a new Father who replaces any earthly father whether biological or religious, for guidance, love, protection, support, and our very lives. We are now born of God's seed and have a personal relationship with God because we have His seed.

2) We thus now have a new family as Jesus explains in Mark 6 and it's our Christian family, not our biological family.

3) Once people call any religious leader 'father" they then go to a person for; forgiveness, love, guidance, nurtrance and interpretation of the Word instead of to God Himself. So that person is trying to replace God which is why Jesus says; "he who exalts himself will be humbled" in that same passage.

And that's what the Catholics have done. Once they began calling their priests, 'father', especially "Our Holy Father" (which is blasphemous because it goes way beyond Christ's injunction) their congregation doesn't go directly to God for anything, but to human priests.

4) We no longer need priests since Jesus is our high priest. Now anyone born of God can enter the sanctuary since Jesus made the sacrifices for us once and for all.

5) Paul was simply explaining that Christ chose Paul and Paul alone to whom to reveal the gospel. Unlike anyone else, Paul heard directly from the risen Lord. Ever since then, we have the gospel to know who Jesus. James, Jude, Peter and John were disciples of Christ, not fathers of the gospel. Nor did Paul ask anyone to call him father and no one did.

So not only is there zero justification for the Catholics to use the very term that Jesus tells us not to use, it's blasphemous to do so. Once anyone on earth exalts himself to the title that Jesus tells us is reserved for God alone, he then begins to play God. And that's why no Catholic disagrees with the pope, but they disagree with the bible all the time as they do in MT. 23;9 as well.
 
Last edited:
Promasa: Your study is fair in many respects. I cannot say I agree/disagree with it...it is food for thought.

Thank you so much Mr Mark, im really glad you that you don't agree/disagree with what i said because i don't try to make people agree/disagree with me , all i try to do is to make people think in an honest way and obviously that's what you did so i really respect and appreciate your stand as it tells how open-minded and wise man you are


(I say this knowing of my ignorance of terms of address in many parts of the world, so I speak only with regard to western churches.)
that's a very important point so thanks for mention it because most people make judgments regardless the situation of other churches.
i hear some of the western churches are in a mess, went far away from the right faith. so there's no surprise that the new Christian groups of Protestant church are becoming more spreaded and acceptable by people over the traditional Catholic churches. i don't really know about that , i only can tell about the condition of churches here and i know things are different here as eastern churches are still the same as the first churches so we don't really have problemes ...

thanks for your thought about this.. God bless you so much
 
Good thoughts 'Promasa' on this touchy subject, and excellent response too.

For my 10cents, forgive if I detract from the O.P.

The greatest title any person can have/carry/bear etc. is the title 'Christian'

This title/name is higher than 'Duke of York' Higher than 'Prince Charles'
Higher than 'Pope of Rome' 'Queen of England' 'President of America' etc. It is the highest accolade any human being can receive.

'Christian' means Christlike.

Regardless of who started it, for it began as a 'nickname', the name has remained as the best one for all followers of Christ.

Its use in Acts 26:28 and its use in 1 Peter 4:16 indicates the Holy Spirit considers it the highest name, any human being can bear upon the earth
 
Thank you so much Mr Stephen for your nice reply, i really appreciate this.
About the name of ' Christian' i love so much what u said because it is really the best title any one can get. it's such a pride to be called Christian to carry Christ name .
that's who we are Christlike, Christ followers, Christian..

God bless you so much and thanks .
 
Call who Father?

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one (Just one folks, only one.) is your Father, which is in heaven.


Boanerges

We have a High Priest and that is Jesus Christ! The established priesthood was abolished in the New Covenant and the priesthood of the believer was established.
If the Word of God says call no man father then why transgress the Word ?
Promasa

If we took by this tight explanation we would find Saint Paul has controvert Jesus commandment
I never found Paul to contradict Jesus, Not one time.

Promasa you used Scriptures that talked of fathers "NOT ON EARTH" Jesus never referred to those "NOT ON EARTH" If you read it again you will find he said "UPON THE EARTH."
1Corn 10:1, Luke 16:24,


1Co 4:15 For if you should have myriads of teachers in Christ, yet not many fathers; for I fathered you in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
(LITV)

1Jn 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

In both scriptures above, the word Father in Greek can also be used as Parent. Both scriptures denote that. It is used as a parent, and a father is used as one that "Fathered Children."
It is not a name of a person or a title of just one person. You can Father Children, and be as a father, but nowhere does the scripture tell us to call you Father.

We use terms as "Our founding fathers." It denotes someone(s) that started something before us such as Abraham. If those people were brought back earth, we would not address them as father but by their name. "George Washington, Abraham, ETC."

This is someone that was a parent of children (Fathered) or someone that was more than a teacher but a father to you, raising you from the start and introducing you to Jesus. This is what Paul was referring to. He got them to the place of Salvation. He FATHERED them into Christ.

So Jesus didn't mean we should not call anybody "father" but God the Father, or anybody "master' but Christ.
Well, I for one don't want to explain to Jesus that I told everyone he did not mean what he said. I would suggest that you don't also. He said you are to Call NO ONE ON EARTH father, but your father in Heaven.
That is pretty clear to me, and anyone else that considers themselves a Christian.


If your a Christian, then you should want to do what he said and not make excuses not to. He meant every Word he said.

He said lay hands on the sick and they shall recover, then you better believe that.

He said if you love him the keep his commandments, then you better believe that.

He has never changed, Nothing has "Passed Away" and all the excuses in the World is not going to help you when you and I have to stand before him and give account of every idle word we have spoken and what we did with our time on earth. Mommy won't be there to save us.

Jesus Is Lord.
 
Last edited:
Impressed

Hi Promasa,

There is an undercurrent to this thread that I like, and it's nothing to do with the topic in question.

Dear sister, your replies are inspiring. If your beliefs are contradicted, you kindly and graciously accept another's views. If they are agreed with, you graciously and humbly accept the agreement.

I must say that I am not a believer in the Roman Catholic religion, and I don't believe it is true to the early Church, yet I am often impressed by the demonstration of Christ's love by those who profess to be Roman Catholic, and I actually believe them (and you Promasa) to be true Christians.

Yet, in your reply to my first post you mentioned the mess that the western Church is in. Yes, there has been an explosion of false doctrine and re-interpretation of the Word that ignores the lessons learned from our fallen asleep brothers and sisters. And there is a tendency in nations such as the UK and US to follow what the World says rather than what God says.

True believers stand and stand for Christ! Denominational arguments are difficult as each tends to be fully convinced of their own take.
 
Inspired?

Dear sister, your replies are inspiring. If your beliefs are contradicted, you kindly and graciously accept another's views. If they are agreed with, you graciously and humbly accept the agreement.

Your inspired by someone who calls themselves a Christian, Comes on a forum, then post that Jesus did not mean what He said?

Jesus Said, "Call no man UPON THE EARTH Your father, You only have ONE father, that is your Father in Heaven."

This person then used Scripture with references to Father Abraham to make a point when it was clear Jesus was only talking about those still Upon the earth. This is a tactic of Mr. Devil, brother.

Now, this person was given the reason father was used that way in the Greek. You can be a father to someone or be the father of something (The start of a thing) but there is only on creator, one true father that deserves the intimate title of YOUR FATHER, YOUR PROVIDER. That is God in Heaven.

You should feel sad for this person, not inspired. This has nothing to do with being Catholic as I know some Catholic's that will take the Words of Jesus over old theology any day once they are shown.

God told Adam NOT to eat the fruit of that tree, For in that day you shall die.

Satan said go ahead and eat it. Surely God did not MEAN YOU SHALL DIE.

Yes, GOD did and Jesus Meant what He said also.

Rethink this Brother, Pray for her, don't be inspired by Rebellion.

Jesus Is Lord.
 
wow Brother Mike, another very good reply.. i really think that was too hard .
you could call me anything , think of me any way ,so " This is a tactic of Mr. Devil " ha ?!!.. and im used by Devil and im not a Christian person coming on a Christian forum. and then posted that Jesus did not mean what He said? !!! that's who i am for you, that's how i seem to be !!!
I never said that Jesus did not mean what He said in the first place..

and just so you know I'M NOT CATHOLIC, I HAVE NEVER BEEN AND I WILL NOT BE, but i don't hate CAtholic peope or judge them or think they are not Christian people, not at all

again and with all my respect that's not a Christian person's way to judge people and give his opinions about them.
For only God knows who i am and for LORD JESUS looked at me and read my mind & heart , I know i can never be lost with His love and mercy.. and there's no one on this earth and nothing in this life will ever change the promise of God , He promised me and i believe in the words He has given me forever..
everything you said dear brother hurts me, i never expected anything like this here never expected this from a Brother_ a REAl CHRISTIAN Brother_.

God bless you and give you so much wisdom and grace in your life..
if im wrong if what im saying and doing is Rebellion then just pray for me as much as you can , and if you really believe in the God you worship in Jesus, then you believe He will make me right in what i do and say.

God bless you, and thanks for your kindness and grace shown to me.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top