Who kills and destroys?

[Giggles4God]

I didn't read everything....I haven't the time right now, but I did read the posts of others.

There is a verse in the Bible in John 10:10 that says "10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."

I equate satan, devil, etc with thief here. Jesus is saying that the thief comes ONLY to do these things. God does not come ONLY to steal, kill, or destroy...he CAN come to do those, but have you also noticed when God destroyed....at times he also rebuilt?

I don't know the mind of God. But I do know...from His Word...taking it in context...that He comes to bring life...sometimes He has to bring us low to do it...but I will never ever believe that God comes ONLY to destroy, kill, or steal. That's not my God.

 

[jiggyfly]

I have only quoted from the Word of God. Alas, It doesn't seem to be favoured but what was not written became favoured instead.

God bless

Actually you have quoted from a translation of the canonized scripture, ignored context and interpreted through your own religious paradigm.

 

[jiggyfly]

I didn't read everything....I haven't the time right now, but I did read the posts of others.

There is a verse in the Bible in John 10:10 that says "10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."

I equate satan, devil, etc with thief here. Jesus is saying that the thief comes ONLY to do these things. God does not come ONLY to steal, kill, or destroy...he CAN come to do those, but have you also noticed when God destroyed....at times he also rebuilt?

I don't know the mind of God. But I do know...from His Word...taking it in context...that He comes to bring life...sometimes He has to bring us low to do it...but I will never ever believe that God comes ONLY to destroy, kill, or steal. That's not my God.

Excellent response Giggles.

 

[jerzy]

Giggles4God

Replying to something that one didn't read makes no sense.

God bless

 

[jerzy]

Actually you have quoted from a translation of the canonized scripture, ignored context and interpreted through your own religious paradigm.

I have quoted from the commonly used King James, considered all of the OT context and most of the NT context.

Can someone point it out to me where I have add or removed from the written Word of God? Let us begin with the OT to avoid confusion.

God bless

 

[jerzy]

Excellent response Giggles.

I have never said that God comes only to destroy, kill or steel. I have said instead that God alone, as the sovereign power in His creation kills and destroys disobedient people so that His Word may prevail.

However God, not I, clearly said that He intended to kill all flesh (which He did indeed, except the eight of Noah family).

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

But only Noah found grace with God and was saved with his immediate family only.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Gen 6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

I have explained that in Joh 10:10 (reading in the context from John 9:39) Jesus makes reference to Eze 34 whereby God speaks about priests not about Satan

Eze 34:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
Eze 34:3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
Eze 34:4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
Eze 34:5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
Eze 34:6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
Eze 34:7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:8 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
Eze 34:9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
Eze 34:11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

John 10:10 has been used completely out of the scriptural context and unscriptural connotation to Satan has been added by man.




God bless

 

[Word of Life]

Actually you have quoted from a translation of the canonized scripture, ignored context and interpreted through your own religious paradigm.

Can you please help us, by putting it back into context? Your input could help and many others!

We need to remember, God speaks to us, through His Written Word (scriptures). Men (us) speak as they we are moved by the Holy Ghost

2Pe 1:20-21
(20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
(21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


1Co 15:21-26
(21) Since a man brought death, (First Adam) a man also brought life back from death (2nd Adam, Jesus).
(22) As everyone dies because of Adam, so also everyone will be made alive because of Christ.

By looking at the written Word, God tells us how man has brought death into the world. God has revealed it and God has spoken it. God does not need keep on reminding us who brings death into the world, when He has already told us.

Just like our own parents, our parent’s teach us and guides us as we grow up. They teach us right from wrong, things that will harm us and things that will keep us safe. We brought this death situation upon ourselves.

When we were younger, our mum’s and dad’s taught us to cross the road. They taught us the dangers of crossing the road when cars were passing by. If we ignored that instruction and guidance, and just crossed the road when cars were passing, we would more likely get run over and die!

Why did we die and who killed us? It was through our own negligence, because we did not listen to the instructions from our parents. God did not kill me!

And as we read the Bible, we need to hold that thought, throughout, because God has clearly given us so many clear instructions, which will help and lead us to eternal life. God has clearly shown us throughout, what will harm us and what won’t. He has clearly shown us what He likes and what He hates. He has clearly shown us what will give us eternal life and what won’t. He has given us the choice to accept or not to accept, Him. If we choose not to accept, His way, that was our choice.

Deu 30:15
(15) See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

So when we see a scripture in the written Word like:

Gen 6:17
(17) I'm about to send a flood on the earth to destroy all people under the sky-every living, breathing human. Everything on earth will die.

When we look at this scripture, it’s painting God in a bad light! But, we need to ask ourselves some very serious questions: -

Why did God do this? Why did He kill and destroy all these people? What made Him angry with man to do such a thing?

The answers are all in His written Word!

Man disobeyed God. Man wanted to do as he pleased, and man ignored all God’s instructions, and man became evil in God’s eyes.

Gen 6:5-6
(5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
(6) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Who is at fault?

When you are born in God’s spirit, it will also grieve you in your heart, what man is doing today!

Let’s go back to the beginning, in Genesis:-

Gen 2:17
(17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

On that day God tells us here, Adam would surely die! But as we read further along into the book of Genesis, we see Adam lived for another 930 years?

Gen 5:5
(5) And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

So what died on the day Adam took the fruit? We clearly see in Gen 5:5, he lived until he was 930 years old, so what died on that day?

God does not lie, so something died on that day! So what died?



We need to look at our own actions and examine ourselves much more than we do, to see why bad things happen. Why does someone commit suicide, why does someone gossip, why does someone steal, why does a young child go into a school and shoot other children, why does someone get drunk, or take drugs, why does someone lie to another and have a affair, why does someone start a fight, drive a car in a reckless manner, crash it and kill someone in the process!


Jam 1:13-14
(13) When someone is tempted, he shouldn't say that God is tempting him. God can't be tempted by evil, and God doesn't tempt anyone.
(14) Everyone is tempted by his own desires as they lure him away and trap him.

(2Ti 4:2) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Joh 16:7-8
(7) However, I am telling you the truth: It's good for you that I'm going away. If I don't go away, the helper (Holy Spirit) won't come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
(8) He (Holy Spirit) will come to convict the world of sin, to show the world what has God's approval, and to convince the world that God judges it.

Who is at fault!

 

[jerzy]

Thanks for the interesting post. At last I mean.

I have not said that God killed for He behaved like a dark ages ruler. God killed when man has gone beyond return although God strived to correct him.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Then God established new ways to deal with man yet he has gone to his own ways again and again. Man opposed God's instructions so he was called "satan" in Hebrew or "adversary" in English.

God bless

 

[jerzy]

There was a mention of the canonical books as insuficient here. Reference was made, I suppose, to the book of Enoch.

I would like to encourage those familiar with the non canonical books to open a new thread and teach say astrology by Enoch, guiltless Judas by Judas, Jesus who was not crucified by Da Vinci and move on to the current "enlightened by the Holy Spirit" making or repeating man made story, who are frightened when the written Word of God is mentioned.

God bless

 

[jiggyfly]

I have quoted from the commonly used King James, considered all of the OT context and most of the NT context.

Can someone point it out to me where I have add or removed from the written Word of God? Let us begin with the OT to avoid confusion.

God bless

Exactly, KJV is a mere translation and contains translation errors. You have shown us your interpretation of satan.

 

[jiggyfly]

There was a mention of the canonical books as insuficient here. Reference was made, I suppose, to the book of Enoch.

I would like to encourage those familiar with the non canonical books to open a new thread and teach say astrology by Enoch, guiltless Judas by Judas, Jesus who was not crucified by Da Vinci and move on to the current "enlightened by the Holy Spirit" making or repeating man made story, who are frightened when the written Word of God is mentioned.

God bless

Not sure what your point is here. Who mentioned that the canonical books were insufficient in this thread.

I mentioned the books but there was no mention by me that they were insufficient. As a matter of fact, the only thing I see as insufficient is your knowledge of the Truth. You seem to be easily distracted and very confused.


I guess I will have to read all of your posts and challenge you to respond in more detail.

 

[Coconut]

It has been forgotten that God alone kills and destroys. The glory of God seems to be attributed to the pagan god satan.

Jerzy, I have`nt time nor inclination to read your lengthy proposed argument, of which the premise seems to be the quote above. If the premise is false, then quoting and expounding the whole Canon would`nt make much difference now would it?

Giggles quite effectively undermined your premise with one single quote from John 10:10...if your foundational arguement was that easy to refute, it should cause you to pause and reflect upon your own conclusions.

I agree with Jiggyfly, you have went to great length to prove your interpretation of who our adversary is, but you seem to have strayed outside of context of scripture, and in doing so, have created such a gray area, I think you might have even confounded yourself.

1Jn 3:8 The person who practices sin belongs to the evil one, because the devil has been sinning since the beginning. The reason that the Son of God was revealed was to destroy the works of the devil.

Btw, satan is not ever referrred to as a pagan deity in scripture, (as deified by man) God Himself
calls satan the "god of this world", [2Co 4:4] and God Himself calls satan the devourer. [1Pe 5:8]
Thus your premise accuses God, (not men) of bestowing upon satan His own glory.

 

[jiggyfly]

Since there is no objection to the scriptural merit of my posts let me add this.

Now that is not true, I have many objections to the scriptural merit of your posts and will be addressing them here ASAP.

 

[Fellowservant]

Both the OT and the NT show us these entities. satan, the beast and the false prophet. Somewhat an evil trinity is mentioned here, we are not just dealing with satan but also his helpers and angels Ie the beast of revelation who Paul calls a man, (man of sin) that is also mentioned in Daniel of the OT and may also play a part in the Lucifer explanation of the scriptures.

Why because Lucifer is called a man in this part of the bible. Now we go to God and Jesus, Christ is also mentioned in the OT as well as the Holy spirit, Jews didnt get this revelation or understand it. How could God be a man? Same way that satan can be a man in the flesh, see rev and the unclean spirits that come out of the beast and false prophet. So we are not just dealing with satan the devil or lucifer.


We are not dealing with flesh and blood, we are dealing with spiritual powers, wickedness in high places. So its not just satan here, as we might suppose. But its clear in the book of revelation that satan is the leader here. Just like it is not just Christ only, but God the father and the spirit and his angels...


I know this tread is closed, but i thought id add some thoughts to help with the confusion.


God bless all...