Depression or Pride: Suicide

[Chad]

Depression or Pride: Suicide - April 15, 2007

A prime-minister takes his life. A teenager determines to end it all. Is too low a view of self the culprit? As Christians we are often taught to love ourselves. We wrongly interpret the words of Jesus, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39). We pervert these words. We don't need to learn to love ourselves before we can love others. We already love ourselves too much. We readily put ourselves first. We do almost everything with old number one in mind. Jesus tells us to love others as much as we already love, cherish, and care for ourselves.

Then why do people threaten suicide? They are making self-centered demands for attention. They make the threat to gain the demanded attention. We correct little children for such behavior. What about suicide? From this perspective, isn't it an act of selfishness? We reject the control other people or situations exercise over our lives. In suicide, we think we take ultimate control over our lives.
Before you reject these thoughts, test them by the Bible. "For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for it we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord" (Romans 14:7-8). If we commit suicide to please ourselves, that suicide is an act of selfishness and pride.

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[bjorkd02]

I have never sereiously contemplated suicide although I have felt trapped by my depression. Trapped because I do believe suicide is an act that is self centered and yet there have been times I have been in such a deep, dark place I felt there was no way out. Sometimes you just don't think correctly and I believe this can be a dangerous time. I do believe there are poeple with chemical imbalances. I don't know if I am one of them. All I know is that I have had long episodes of unrelenting depression. I have cried out to God with every fiber of my being and yet the depression remains. You get weary after awhile and just want peace.

 

[Gracealone]

My husband has said, suicide is an awful permanent solution, for a temporary problem.....I believe that is true.

God gave me an experience when I was an 11 year old child, and he has used it time, and again to remind me a problem is only an opportunity to see the hand of God.

The experience:

A warm Sunny day in the Spring.
My girlfriend, Carol, and I were going to ride our bikes into Puyallup and get them licensed.
WE would meet Mom at the berry cabins later on.

As we started out that day, Carol was full of questions about Jesus.
They had a Jehovah witness come by the house the day previous, and Carol knowing I was Christian wanted to ask some things.
I answered her questions as well as an 11 year old knew how, and had a sense of God presence as we road along.
WE came to a steep hill, and our bikes picked up speed, that drew my attention back to the road., and ahead I noticed our side of the road was all washed out with chuck holes and ruts from the spring rains and run off. It was a mess!

I thought to myself, "I'll go around", when I heard a strong masculine voice , behind and above me, command, "No! Go Through!"
I obeyed the voice, forcing Carol to also, as I was slightly ahead of her, and on the inside of the road.
AS we went through all those ruts,and holes, a car came speeding around a blind corner, and past us, coming up the hill.
Had we gone around we would have been hit head on!
Carol looked at me with a shocked look and asked, "Did God tell you to do that?" and I answered simply, but in wonder, "Yes, He did!"

Not only did he save our lives that day, but in years to come God used that experience to draw me back to himself.

By the time I was 13 I had been abandoned, abducted, and forsaken, which led to an ungodly marriage , abuse, and hopelessness.
At one point I thought of suicide, but God stayed my hand., and in the middle of it all he came to me at my lowest point, and reminded me of that day on the road.....his silent voice speaking in my mind said to me, remember that day? That was real, you need to come back to God.... 3 times he prompted my memory of that day.
When I said Yes Lord, I need to come back, the fog lifted, and I started my journey home.

The trials have not ended,but I know that through each one, God will see me through, and he has.

WE have many bumps, ruts,and holes in our life, but if we respond to
His words of love, and obey him, he will see us through.

From faith to faith as we apply our heart, and our trust, we have hope, for he is always there, and knows what is just around those blind corners.

What he has done for others, he will do for you, he is no respecter of persons, and will meet you right where you are in your own personal need.
He is your personal Savior, and he knows already, every need of your life.
Trials are truly only opportunities in our lives to see the loving hand of God.....Trust him

 

[bjorkd02]

Gracealone

Thank you for your post. It offers tremendous encouragement. I want Jesus more than anything in my life. It is just so hard to completly trust. I feel like doubting Thomas.

 

[Gracealone]

Just believe.
Faith even as small as a mustard seed can move mountains, so to speak, for even small faith in a great God, is enough.
He knows your heart, and even now as you lay this out before him by speaking your heart, he hears, and understands, and cares for you.

Ask, and it shall be given you, seek, and you shall find, knock, and the door shall be opened unto you....that's a promise, and God cannot lie.

Matt. 6:8 and 7:7

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

As Christians we are often taught to love ourselves. We wrongly interpret the words of Jesus, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39). We pervert these words. We don't need to learn to love ourselves before we can love others. We already love ourselves too much. We readily put ourselves first. We do almost everything with old number one in mind. Jesus tells us to love others as much as we already love, cherish, and care for ourselves.

Then why do people threaten suicide? They are making self-centered demands for attention. They make the threat to gain the demanded attention. We correct little children for such behavior. What about suicide? From this perspective, isn't it an act of selfishness? We reject the control other people or situations exercise over our lives. In suicide, we think we take ultimate control over our lives.
Before you reject these thoughts, test them by the Bible. "For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for it we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord" Romans 14:7-8

I take exception to your making this issue out to be so simple.
Typically, it's not.

Yes, people are crying out.. for help.. in it's most extreme form, this is what they are doing.

You've convoluted the subject by intermixing a person of faith, and one who is not of faith.
For one who has no faith, certainly we can conclude they posses less hope, than one who has faith.
The two, of course, could not be any farther apart from each other.


One definition of depression is 'suppressed anger'. That, of someone who still blames themself for things which have happened to them, and have not yet learned.. it's actually not their fault.
Or, they haven't yet learned to forgive themselves, and have not yet understood, it is the most important part of their inner healing.


LoJ

 

[Insomnia]

You are right about the fact that suicidal people often try to get attention. However the context of said attention can be argued. I myself have had terrible suicidal thoughts, anxiety, depression, anger at myself, anger at others, and I hate it. I want to be normal like everyone else. Especially when it was really bothering me before I got on medication (which turned me into a zombie most of the time, anyway) I often tried to harm myself or cry out that I was going to end it all so someone could possibly help me before I did.

I wanted to die. I really did. The attention I was seeking was not just to get someone to say "oh, look at that poor soul", it was attention so that I could be directed towards real* help of some kind before my confusion and problems made me do something I would eternally regret.

I believe there are many people like me who have suffered greatly or more so, and call out for help. Cry out for help. Cry out for some form of resolution to their impending mistake of suicide. I believe that suicide is a long term solution to a temporary issue. We don't have to be full of anger, self-hate, anxiety and confusion. But for those who are, it's best we try to understand and educate them to why suicide can never be considered the best way to solve the problem. And help them ultimately tackle depression without the use of often more destructive anti depressants.

Suicide is like killing your dog because he barked at your neighbor one time.

 

[Gracealone]

Thank you for your post. It offers tremendous encouragement. I want Jesus more than anything in my life. It is just so hard to completly trust. I feel like doubting Thomas.

bjorkd02 Be encouraged, God loved doubting Thomas too.

When you read through the 4 Gospels, what do you see?

You see Jesus seeking out those in need, like you, and me.

He mingled with the doubters, the cast offs, the socially unaccepted, for he saw past there faults, and saw their need.

He was tender hearted toward them,like a shepherd with his sheep.

Loved them, spoke truth to them, and said, "Come unto me,All ye that are burdened,and heavy laden and I will give you rest. For my yoke is easy, and my burden light.Matt.11:29-30
A beautiful, powerful, simple message.
Come, He will not cast us away. John 6:37

 

[jiggyfly]

I take exception to your making this issue out to be so simple.
Typically, it's not.

Yes, people are crying out.. for help.. in it's most extreme form, this is what they are doing.

You've convoluted the subject by intermixing a person of faith, and one who is not of faith.
For one who has no faith, certainly we can conclude they posses less hope, than one who has faith.
The two, of course, could not be any farther apart from each other.


One definition of depression is 'suppressed anger'. That, of someone who still blames themself for things which have happened to them, and have not yet learned.. it's actually not their fault.
Or, they haven't yet learned to forgive themselves, and have not yet understood, it is the most important part of their inner healing.


LoJ

But self is still the focus and inner healing will never come while focused on self.

Many think that low self-esteem is the culprit and try to encourage the person to think of themselves as highly-valued. But self-esteem is the root of the problem regardless of it's measure.

The best remedy for depression is found in the scriptures.
John 15:9-12
9*“I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. 10*When you obey me, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father and remain in his love. 11*I have told you this so that you will be filled with my joy. Yes, your joy will overflow! 12*I command you to love each other in the same way that I love you.

If we will focus on Christ and love others we will be filled and overflowing with joy.

 

[TheWidowsOffering]

oooppsss.. caution.. lol

Depression or Pride: Suicide - April 15, 2007

Then why do people threaten suicide? They are making self-centered demands for attention. They make the threat to gain the demanded attention.

aww.. hehe . i remembered my cousin telling one time she wanted to die and getting hysterical. i got a knife and tell her "ok, now kill yourself".. lol.. She was shocked and changed her mood immediately then laughed at the end.. lol

of course that's a very dangerous thing i did unless the Lord has His guidance.


blessings to all of us!!!!!!!!!!!


Sis. Reymielin


"The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned." Isaiah 50:4

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

But self is still the focus and inner healing will never come while focused on self.

I appreciate your attention here, and it begs the question..

Is there a time in/and through the times of our lives when it's appropriate, and even necessary, to focus on ourselves?

My answer is yes.

A person has to focus on what it is within, on what it is that is driving them into such dispair.
It is, more often than not, anger at themselves.. what that is must be discerned before they can even begin to move toward a proper and balanced esteem level. We ought not to think too highly of ourselves, but we should think high enough of ourselves, to carry ourselves as children of the King.

There are more suicides outside the walls of the church than inside. If there is help/healing for many of these who have their own testimony without Christ of overcoming depression/suicide.. there must be a common denominator with those who have experienced victory within the walls of the church as well.

And that is.. forgiveness. Forgiveness of yourself.. which doesn't take Jesus to accomplish. The world practices' this as well. Forgiveness is a principle of life.. it was around before Jesus spoke about it in the eternal sense.

I knew a boy who wrestled with why he wasn't good enough to please his dad. He suffered much physical and emotional abuse through his childhood.


He blamed himself.


..Really. Instictively he knew dad cared for him and took care of him. So did mom, and he knew she nurtured and loved him. What he couldn't figure out was why he was slapped when he failed to sit proper at the table.. and that was just the light stuff.
As an adult he came to finally understand that as a child, he thought there was something wrong with himself.. and so it was his fault. His parents weren't doing anything wrong. He reasoned he deserved the treatment.

You ever see the movie with Robin Williams and Matt Damon.. Good Will Hunting? There's a point in the movie where Matt stops blaming himself. Here's the clip, warning.. there are 3 swear words in this 1:40 minute clip: Link. The counselor, Robin Williams, brought him to the point of discovery that he had been blaming himself for so many years, for something he had no control over, or blame to share in.

This is what I'm talking about. It's real and we shouldn't trivialize it by saying 'just focus on Jesus' and have a good day.


Just for context.. many young men coming back from Iraq have committed suicide. You can bet they had a tremendous amount of pride serving this great country and the people of this land, for the betterment of this country.
What they experienced in war.. the actual killing of another human being, or watching a buddy next to them die while they feel helpless what to do to save that persons life..
..Guilt? I guarantee it. ..Blame? I guarantee it. Helping them understand they were simply doing what they were told and trained to do.. easily said, not so easily grasped when you count the toll.



LoJ

 

[jiggyfly]

I appreciate your attention here, and it begs the question..

Is there a time in/and through the times of our lives when it's appropriate, and even necessary, to focus on ourselves?

My answer is yes.

A person has to focus on what it is within, on what it is that is driving them into such dispair.
It is, more often than not, anger at themselves.. what that is must be discerned before they can even begin to move toward a proper and balanced esteem level. We ought not to think too highly of ourselves, but we should think high enough of ourselves, to carry ourselves as children of the King.

LoJ

Well then we have to disagree, because I only see focusing on self leading to selfishness and focusing on Christ leading to selflessness.

I know that there are cases of mental disorders which cause severe depression and I am not refering to these cases, but there are so many christians who because of unhappiness are going to the doctors for perscription meds that you could make another denomination and call them the Prozacists. Bottom line is our confidence is to be in Christ and not ourselves.

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

And that is.. forgiveness. Forgiveness of yourself.. which doesn't take Jesus to accomplish. The world practices' this as well. Forgiveness is a principle of life.. LoJ

Jiggy,
How do you feel about this? Particuliarly to the unbeliever.

 

[jiggyfly]

Well LoJ, I just don't see this as the root problem, there might be a few cases in which one is unforgiving of self and causing depression but even in those cases more than just forgiveness of self is needed. Christ must become the focus and others must be preferred and loved over self.

 

[JWayne]

I have a quick question? Why is it that Christians are so quick to judge one who has depression, as if, it is impossible for a Christian to have such a disease?

This reminds me of a program I heard on the radio this morning where there is a group of people (skinny) [not only in body but more in mind] are trying to force insurance companies to charge overweight people 6x's their premiums?

It is just too simple to make snap judgements about anyone who is different, and it totally disheartens me as to how any Christian could make such judgements with out knowing personally how it is to be depressed or even to have lived one on one with someone who suffers.

Everyone of us is very different from the other and everyone of us could easily find something wrong with the other, but where does that get us? And to say the least, are we pleasing God, by judging these and throwing them to the way side? Are we loving our neighbor as we are to love ourself.

These judgments are definitely from one who has never walked in the others shoes, and have absolutely no idea of what is happening.

Who of us is better than another? that we can make such judgment, and sit back and honestly say there is nothing in my life that is not wrong? Are we that small minded? Has walking in His steps not taught us better than this?

Depression is a DISEASE, and has many physical causes, and with a little love and care, a person can come a long way, but to imagine a Christian tell me that I am simply having a pity party is about one of the most non-Christian statements that could ever be made.

I would never wish upon anyone, the depression I have suffered over the years, but if any has the gall to say I am only concerned with myself and am only seeking attention, then maybe I need to pray to God to share with others what I have been through, but I am better than that, and as I am most definitely a Christian, I have suffered major episodes and yes, I at times, wanted to end my life and came very close many times.

But guess what? God did not shame me, and tell me to quit having a pity party, He always kept His hand on my shoulder and constantly told me He loved me and cared, when everyone else shuned me.

For one who is not a Christian, I pray that you never hear from a Christian that you need to get over yourself. Until you walk in our shoes, and you judge us fairly, you are in worse shape than we are, and may God have mercy on your soul.

And BTW, this is a blanket statement and the word ( [you] is universal, which includes everyone) who could care less because they simply do not understand.

 

[Insomnia]

I have a quick question? Why is it that Christians are so quick to judge one who has depression, as if, it is impossible for a Christian to have such a disease?

This reminds me of a program I heard on the radio this morning where there is a group of people (skinny) [not only in body but more in mind] are trying to force insurance companies to charge overweight people 6x's their premiums?

It is just too simple to make snap judgements about anyone who is different, and it totally disheartens me as to how any Christian could make such judgements with out knowing personally how it is to be depressed or even to have lived one on one with someone who suffers.

Everyone of us is very different from the other and everyone of us could easily find something wrong with the other, but where does that get us? And to say the least, are we pleasing God, by judging these and throwing them to the way side? Are we loving our neighbor as we are to love ourself.

These judgments are definitely from one who has never walked in the others shoes, and have absolutely no idea of what is happening.

Who of us is better than another? that we can make such judgment, and sit back and honestly say there is nothing in my life that is not wrong? Are we that small minded? Has walking in His steps not taught us better than this?

Depression is a DISEASE, and has many physical causes, and with a little love and care, a person can come a long way, but to imagine a Christian tell me that I am simply having a pity party is about one of the most non-Christian statements that could ever be made.

I would never wish upon anyone, the depression I have suffered over the years, but if any has the gall to say I am only concerned with myself and am only seeking attention, then maybe I need to pray to God to share with others what I have been through, but I am better than that, and as I am most definitely a Christian, I have suffered major episodes and yes, I at times, wanted to end my life and came very close many times.

But guess what? God did not shame me, and tell me to quit having a pity party, He always kept His hand on my shoulder and constantly told me He loved me and cared, when everyone else shuned me.

For one who is not a Christian, I pray that you never hear from a Christian that you need to get over yourself. Until you walk in our shoes, and you judge us fairly, you are in worse shape than we are, and may God have mercy on your soul.

And BTW, this is a blanket statement and the word ( [you] is universal, which includes everyone) who could care less because they simply do not understand.

That pretty much sums up how I feel on the subject. As Christians we are supposed to be loving, and caring of people who are in pain and people in general. Depression and Anxiety are real disorders, and they need real attention. I know a Christian from over seas who has constantly given me hope and renewal of spirit for a better day through God, and through comfort that comes through that. I came back to God through that, because I had strayed away during the time this all started for me because it felt like nobody cared and I should just get over myself.

I can pretty much assure anyone here that without the attention and loving care I got from that friend over seas that I might of not been here. Especially considering I've been on nearly 5 anti-depressants since this whole thing started (of which, 1 barely worked). During that period of time I had little to no friends, and my parents didn't understand what was going on because they never dealt with it before (which I don't blame them for). That friend was like and continues to be an outlet to reason through my confusion through God. People who have really intense suicidal thoughts and confusion through medication and the actual disorder themselves often resort to suicide because they are desperate for relief of their intense inner and sometimes outer pain. I believe it is the wrong solution, but we have to help people stray away from suicide, not God.

As Christians, and as fellow humans, we should comfort those who are in any pain, whether that be mental, or physical.

 

[jiggyfly]

I was reading this article and when I got to this part I thought of this thread and seen some relevancy.

Excerpt taken from "Taking Resonsibility For The Testimony" by T.Austin Sparks August 1932.

I do just wonder how far we are in that place, that position, that condition which is a lively concern for the Lord's testimony in an active way. How much we are concerned for our own testimony, for our own spiritual life and state, and we circle round ourselves very largely, spiritually. That may mean bondage, that may mean depression. There is nothing so strengthening, so emancipating as to be occupied with the Lord's testimony at large; and there is nothing so depressing, so paralysing as to be occupied merely with our own personal spiritual life. And I think that probably nine out of every ten of the frowns and unhappy looks which we carry are because we are occupied with our own spiritual condition; whereas if we were emancipated out into the Lord's great world testimony we should be very much freer and a happier people.

 

[Gracealone]

2 Corinthians 1:4 Our personal testimony:

Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we maybe able to comfort them which are in any
trouble , by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

My husband has a Bi-polar daughter who struggles with deep depression. Was in a mental hospital for awhile.
Now she is able to help those in the same way she was comforted.
I believe that is why God allows trials sometimes, to humble our selves, and to help others in like manner.

May God be lifted up, as we help lift one another up .

 

[JWayne]

Blindness is a terrible thing for those who can not see, and judge those who have seen.

 

[jiggyfly]

Blindness is a terrible thing for those who can not see, and judge those who have seen.

I agree and there are none so blind than those who refuse to see.:shade: