Man: An Eternal spirit

[Gracealone]

And we have been redeemed from the curse of poverty, and sickness.


Peace, Golfjack

That seems a bit strange to me since Paul asked to be healed three times, and God said to him, my Grace is sufficient for thee.

Also strange that I sought God to heal me for 23 years. Went forward for anointing of oil, and laying on of hands, three times, and it wasn't until I came to realize, and said to him,"Lord, tho you slay me, yet will I trust you!" That God brought me through.
A lesson I needed to learn.

Being rich is OK unless you love money, but it isn't guaranteed like these prosperity teachers claim, or else they would be the ones dishing out the bucks instead , so they could reap 100 fold, or 10 even.
With God things seem to be an upside down world to what we want to think.
The woman who gave a mite, gave more than the rich man,Jesus said, because she gave all she had, and he only gave a small portion of his.

The truth of the matter is, we are to use the gifts God has given us, and be Faithful in the doing, no matter how small.

 

[jiggyfly]

That seems a bit strange to me since Paul asked to be healed three times, and God said to him, my Grace is sufficient for thee.

Also strange that I sought God to heal me for 23 years. Went forward for anointing of oil, and laying on of hands, three times, and it wasn't until I came to realize, and said to him,"Lord, tho you slay me, yet will I trust you!" That God brought me through.
A lesson I needed to learn.

Being rich is OK unless you love money, but it isn't guaranteed like these prosperity teachers claim, or else they would be the ones dishing out the bucks instead , so they could reap 100 fold, or 10 even.
With God things seem to be an upside down world to what we want to think.
The woman who gave a mite, gave more than the rich man,Jesus said, because she gave all she had, and he only gave a small portion of his.

The truth of the matter is, we are to use the gifts God has given us, and be Faithful in the doing, no matter how small.

Good post Gracealone, you can't be a millionaire without storing it up or winning the lotto and I have yet to meet any one who was rich against their will.


Golfjack, please show all the scriptures that clearly and specifically say Jesus and or the Apostles were personally rich with material goods and money.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Jiggy, I think we are beating a dead horse here. You know the Scriptures imply much. I am pretty sure you believe in a more literal interpretation. I believe the Holy Spirit will tell us much about scripture and its meaning. Just ask Him. One can study a verse and it may have many meanings. I am not perfect in my interpretations and neither are you. I believe in revelations. Do you? I believe the Bible doesn't have to be specific about Jesus being rich, but you believe because it doesn't say it specifically, you refuse to believe it. Are arguments are a matter of interpretation. But that is Ok as far as I am concerned. :friends:


Peace, Golfjack

 

[jiggyfly]

Jiggy, I think we are beating a dead horse here. You know the Scriptures imply much. I am pretty sure you believe in a more literal interpretation. I believe the Holy Spirit will tell us much about scripture and its meaning. Just ask Him. One can study a verse and it may have many meanings. I am not perfect in my interpretations and neither are you. I believe in revelations. Do you? I believe the Bible doesn't have to be specific about Jesus being rich, but you believe because it doesn't say it specifically, you refuse to believe it. Are arguments are a matter of interpretation. But that is Ok as far as I am concerned. :friends:


Peace, Golfjack

So I assume you are saying that you can't back up your belief that Jesus and the Apostles were rich with scripture?

I have plenty of scripture that conflicts with what your propigating so unless you can come up with some scripture please make note and follow the forum rules.

http://www.talkjesus.com/press-stand/53-talk-jesus-10-commandments-rule.html

 

[Boanerges]

As a newby here these are just my opinions:

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Spirit, soul and body. Note that the spirit is always given pre-eminence as this is where God and man may commune. The soul receives revelation from the spirit (by the Spirit) in the Word and is renewed daily as it begins to line up with the Word of God in it's thought patterns.The body of course follows the thoughts of the renewed mind and therein walks in obediance to God's Word.


Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The day Adam ate of this fruit his soul (mind, body, intellect, emotions) did not die nor did his body. He experienced spiritual death which separated him from communion (common union) and fellowship with God.

Ezekiel prophesied about the born again experience:

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Eze 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jesus said that one must be born of water (natural childbirth) and of the Spirit (new birth) to see, comprehend, and participate
in the Kingdom of God.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;


It used to amaze me that scriptures like these would be interpreted so many different ways. That was before I started getting a bigger picture of the body of Christ. So many "flavors" and different revealtions in specific areas. Yet all part of one beautiful church.

Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

[jiggyfly]

Very good post Boanerges, worded nicely, neatly presented and I love the fact that you printed out the entire verses of scripture reference. Very easy to read and understand.:groupwave:

Even though I don't fully agree great job.

 

[Boanerges]

Thank you brother. I am enjoying reading your posts as well.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Jiggy, I think you might enjoy this post.

2 Cor. 8:9, For you know by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.

To know the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, you must know that, though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor. He was rich in eternity past with God the Father; but He left the Father's side for the sinful world. He left the glory of heaven for the sorrow and gloom of this sin-cursed world. He was rich in the care and worship of all the angels of heaven. The Father said, Let all the angels of God worship Him ( Heb. 1:6). Yet, for your sake, He became poor, allowing sinful men to mock Him, curse Him, crucify Him, and put Him to shame. Hhe despising the shame ( Heb. 12:2) endured the agonies of hell on the cross that you might be rich with Him in glory forever and ever. Jesus Christ, the God-Man, suffered physically ( Is. 52:14), spiritually ( Is. 53: 3-6), and emotioinally ( Matt. 27:46). He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree ( 1 Peter 2:24). Never did a man suffer like this man. It was all for you, that you might be rich in this life and eternally rich in the life to come ( John 20:30, 31).

Jiggy, Do you believe that salvation means redemption from our sins, from poverty, sickness, deliverances? What does word salvation in the Greek?


Peace, Golfjack

 

[jiggyfly]

Well Golfjack, I love that scripture because it shows the love that Christ has for us and that there is so much more to Life than what we can experience carnally here on earth. All the riches here that carnal life has to offer here on earth, pale to those spiritual blessings.

And your right I do love this post much more.

 

[Boanerges]

Jiggy, What does word salvation in the Greek?


Peace, Golfjack

If I may Golfjack:

From the Vines Expository Dictionary of the Bible

Salvation

A. Nouns.
1. soteria (G4991) denotes "deliverance, preservation, salvation." "Salvation" is used in the NT (a) of material and temporal deliverance from danger and apprehension, (1) national, Luk_1:69, Luk_1:71; Act_7:25, RV marg., "salvation" (text, "deliverance"); (2) personal, as from the sea, Act_27:34; RV, "safety" (KJV, "health"); prison, Phi_1:19; the flood, Heb_11:7; (b) of the spiritual and eternal deliverance granted immediately by God to those who accept His conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus, in whom alone it is to be obtained, Act_4:12, and upon confession of Him as Lord, Rom_10:10; for this purpose the gospel is the saving instrument, Rom_1:16; Eph_1:13 (see further under SAVE); (c) of the present experience of God's power to deliver from the bondage of sin, e.g., Phi_2:12, where the special, though not the entire, reference is to the maintenance of peace and harmony; 1Pe_1:9; this present experience on the part of believers is virtually equivalent to sanctification; for this purpose, God is able to make them wise, 2Ti_3:15; they are not to neglect it, Heb_2:3; (d) of the future deliverance of believers at the Parousia of Christ for His saints, a salvation which is the object of their confident hope, e.g., Rom_13:11; 1Th_5:8, and 1Th_5:9, where "salvation" is assured to them, as being deliverance from the wrath of God destined to be executed upon the ungodly at the end of this age (see 1Th_1:10); 2Th_2:13; Heb_1:14; Heb_9:28; 1Pe_1:5; 2Pe_3:15; (e) of the deliverance of the nation of Israel at the second advent of Christ at the time of "the epiphany (or shining forth) of His Parousia" (2Th_2:8); Luk_1:71; Rev_12:10; (f) inclusively, to sum up all the blessings bestowed by God on men in Christ through the Holy Spirit, e.g., 2Co_6:2; Heb_5:9; 1Pe_1:9, 1Pe_1:10; Jud_1:3; (g) occasionally, as standing virtually for the Savior, e.g., Luk_19:9; cf. Joh_4:22 (see SAVIOR); (h) in ascriptions of praise to God, Rev_7:10, and as that which it is His prerogative to bestow, Rev_19:1 (RV).
2. soterion (G4992), the neuter of the adjective (see B), is used as a noun in Luk_2:30; Luk_3:6, in each of which it virtually stands for the Savior, as in No. 1 (g); in Act_28:28, as in No. 1 (b); in Eph_6:17, where the hope of "salvation" [see No. 1 (d)] is metaphorically described as "a helmet."
B. Adjective.
soterios (G4992**), "saving, bringing salvation," describes the grace of God, in Tit_2:11.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Thanks Boag. I liked your post about spirit, soul, and body. It sounds like you may have a Pentecostal background. By the way, I think When Jesus mentioned water in the New Birth, I think water means the Word because the Bible mentions a washing of the Word ( Eph. 5:26; John 13:3; John 17:17).


Peace, Golfjack

 

[Boanerges]

I think I have a little bit of everything in my background my friend, lol!

I think (my opinion again) the water here is referring to the first birth and the Spirit the 2nd but opinions vary greatly on that.
The washing of the water you are referring to (Titus 3:5 ?) is something I always considered as a reference to the renewing of the mind as discussed in these verses:
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

But I leave myself room for error in my opinions and certainly respect yours my brother.

 

[golfjack]

reply

I believe Titus 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. Compared to John 3:3.

In other words I think this verse has 2 elements: the washing of the Word. renewing of the Holy Spirit. I believe we are the ones who must renew our minds ( soulish area). Our recreated spirits don't need renewing.


Peace, Golfjack

 

[Boanerges]

You are 100% right GJ. Our born agin spirit is created in God's image and does not need renewing. It is our soul that Christ came to save and it is our soul that needs to be made new in it's thinking.

<DIR>Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
</DIR>