God and Logic

[sorrow]

Why doesn't God appreciate us using logic?

It is a cognitive process that he gave us.

 

[Coconut]

God is Logic

God = Logo`s = Logic.

 

[sorrow]

Where does it say that in the bible? Logic is a cognitive process, it is not knowledge.

 

[Chad]

Why doesn't God appreciate us using logic?

It is a cognitive process that he gave us.

You cannot go claiming things without proving it true. How would you feel if someone claimed things about you that were not true and didn't bother backing it up with proof? Anytime you claim GOD says this or that, back it up with Scripture. This is the third time I'm reminding you of the forum rules regarding this Ian. I cannot imagine you making claims about what GOD says if it is not in the Bible but grabbing your claims from any other book outside the Word.

A thought to ponder:

You have no problem believing in men that are dead now, what they teach but you have various issues with GOD that you claim without proof? You quote about Einstein, some "Thomas" philosopher which I had to delete earlier because this is after all called Talk Jesus.

That's not logical - if you think about it.

 

[jiggyfly]

Not sure where you got the idea that God doesn't want us using logic, he just doesn't want our logic to be influenced by carnal thinking.

Isaiah 1:18
"Come now, let us argue this out," says the LORD. "No matter how deep the stain of your sins, I can remove it. I can make you as clean as freshly fallen snow. Even if you are stained as red as crimson, I can make you as white as wool.

He just asks us to come and reason with Him over just reasoning with each other.

No matter what type of cognitive psychology you employ the proper solution will always be Christ.

 

[Chad]

Where does it say that in the bible? Logic is a cognitive process, it is not knowledge.

Where does it say in the Bible that GOD does not want us to use logic? Where does it say that logic is cognitive and not knowledge? How can one use logic without knowledge?

Merriam Webster

cog·ni·tive

Pronunciation: \ˈkäg-nə-tiv\
Function:adjective

1 : of, relating to, being, or involving conscious intellectual activity (as thinking, reasoning, or remembering) <cognitive impairment>

2 : based on or capable of being reduced to empirical factual knowledge
— cog·ni·tive·ly adverb

log·ic

Pronunciation: \ˈlä-jik\
Function:noun
Etymology:Middle English logik, from Anglo-French, from Latin logica, from Greek logikē, from feminine of logikos of reason, from logos reason — more at legend

1 a (1): a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning (2): a branch or variety of logic <modal logic> <Boolean logic> (3): a branch of semiotic ; especially : syntactics (4): the formal principles of a branch of knowledge b (1): a particular mode of reasoning viewed as valid or faulty (2): relevance , propriety c: interrelation or sequence of facts or events when seen as inevitable or predictable d: the arrangement of circuit elements (as in a computer) needed for computation ; also : the circuits themselves

2: something that forces a decision apart from or in opposition to reason <the logic of war>

 

[sorrow]

I see, so empirical knowledge aka experience, is through Jesus Christ only, even though we are not Jesus Christ to experience what he experienced.:coocoo:

 

[Coconut]

Where does it say that in the bible? Logic is a cognitive process, it is not knowledge.

The original Greek word Logos is translated Word, most English-language Bibles use "Word" in translated Scriptures.

The cognitive process is called reason. God actually tells us to use the ability to reason He has given us...

IE Isa 1:18 "Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.
Isa 1:19 If you are willing and obedient...

The problem is, logic requires concrete fact to indeed be logical...human reasoning only requires cognitive ability...and any mixture of fact, imagination, lies, etc...basically whatever you want to tell yourself, and are willing to accept as truth...human reasoning can be our worst enemy Spiritually speaking.

Job 28:12 But where can wisdom be found? Where can we learn to understand?
Job 28:13 Wisdom is not to be found among mortals; No one knows its true value.
Job 28:14 The depths of the oceans and seas Say that wisdom is not found there.
Job 28:15 It cannot be bought with silver or gold.
Job 28:16 The finest gold and jewels Cannot equal its value.
Job 28:17 It is worth more than gold, Than a gold vase or finest glass.
Job 28:18 The value of wisdom is more Than coral or crystal or rubies.
Job 28:19 The finest topaz and the purest gold Cannot compare with the value of wisdom.
Job 28:20 Where, then, is the source of wisdom? Where can we learn to understand?
Job 28:21 No living creature can see it, Not even a bird in flight.
Job 28:22 Even death and destruction Admit they have heard only rumors.
Job 28:23 God alone knows the way, Knows the place where wisdom is found,
Job 28:24 Because he sees the ends of the earth, Sees everything under the sky.
Job 28:25 When God gave the wind its power And determined the size of the sea;
Job 28:26 When God decided where the rain would fall, And the path that the thunderclouds travel;
Job 28:27 It was then he saw wisdom and tested its worth--- He gave it his approval.
Job 28:28 God said to us humans, "To be wise, you must have reverence for the Lord. To understand, you must turn from evil."

 

[Chad]

I see, so empirical knowledge aka experience, is through Jesus Christ only, even though we are not Jesus Christ to experience what he experienced.:coocoo:

We are not Jesus Christ, correct. No logic required here to believe this truth.

But we are created by Him in a spectacular way to think, feel, act, believe.

Have you read the dozen plus links I gave you in another thread you responded to? To simplify, go to the evidence and prophecy forum. Be blown away by real facts. No philosophies there, just facts.

 

[Property Of God]

If you read the N.T closely and deeply, you'll see how much Jesus lord talks to people using logic ONLY! Read each quote He says, read how He talked during the time He was taken to be crucified, offcourse He appreciates us using logic, but some logics are utter stupideness and some logics actually have meanings.

God created us to think and act the same way you are acting right now, how come you claim otherwise?

 

[Br. Bear]

Why doesn't God appreciate us using logic?

It is a cognitive process that he gave us.

Greetings,

can you please explain what you mean by this question and statement?

thank you and bless you ....><>


Br. Bear

 

[sorrow]

Well, what is the logical necessity of having a God? And yet we are able to use logic. Why is that?

 

[jiggyfly]

Well, what is the logical necessity of having a God? And yet we are able to use logic. Why is that?

Forgive me if I'm wrong but you seem to be opposed to faith in Christ. Rather then seeking God you seem to argue against His existance and our necessity to experience a relationship with Him.

Given the current status it is unlikely that we can share these truths in a way that you can understand. The scriptures state that spiritual truth can not be learned carnally. The Grace that causes spiritual regeneration can not be realized through knowledge it must come through faith. There is a difference between seeking to know someone and seeking to know about someone. Intimacy(spiritual reality) vrs knowledge (gnosticism and or religious fantasy). Paul said in his 1st letter to the believers at Corinth, "knowledge makes you prideful" and the scriptures also tell us that God resists those who are full of pride, so as long as you believe you have no need for God in your life there's really nothing more to discuss.

 

[PraiseElohim]

I have a desk calendar with a scripture verse for each day. Today's verse was "Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me." John 6:45.

I'm thinking that you, Sorrow, have heard from the Father, He's calling you to Himself, but if you stay trapped in your mind, without a revelation of Jesus, you won't learn from the Father and come to Jesus to find those answers whose questions make your head spin.

Logic, as you've pointed out, is a cognitive process, a very useful one at that; because when combined with the 'knowledge' of Jesus Christ, everything that God does and is is very logical. The thing is though, that we can't reach Yahweh with man's logic alone, it has to come through the revelation of the knowledge of Jesus Christ. So I pray that you have that revelation. I pray that you have a visitation of Jesus Christ and that Holy Spirit overshadow you and make Himself known to you.

 

[sorrow]

jigglyfly,

I do believe in God, I just believe that God wants humans to think and find value in believing in God ourselves. I don't think that by asserting a bible one truly believes in God because you can believe in the bible and that the bible is the words of God... but it does not require you to believe in God.

What I think is hard is that some people carelessly believe in God, brought up to believe in God and accepting it as simply the right course to take, you'd be insane not to sorta thing, without thinking as to the value of it all. Tell me honestly and truly why it is you believe in God and Jesus Christ.

I have my reasons I will happily share but I want to read yours.

One can do good without God, one can help society without God, one can be virtuous without God, one can hold value from any act of altruism not just Jesus Christ. One can contrive better morals than the ten commandments for helping society. One can find truth from other sources of wisdom than the bible, why not, the bible was written by man.

So besides any arguments against these statements I present here, what other reasons make Jesus Christ mandatory. I think heaven is a little selfish don't you?

For example, if you were given three choices. One was that you could go to heaven but then by that act you'd be sending your brother to hell. The other choice is two have the two of you not go to either, but just end, simply. And the last choice is to sacrifice yourself to hell and your brother gets to go to heaven. What would you choose jigglyfly if those were your three choices?

 

[seekingchrist]

What does logic have to do with god, With god all things are possible. tell me the logic in this
"A virgin giving birth to a son"
Your question is "Why is it you believe in God and Jesus christ?"
Why shouldn I? it is because of him that my sins are forgiven.
It is because of him that am truly blessed in life.
It is because of him we live.

And let me get this straight the ten commandments are not written to help the society.

 

[jiggyfly]

jigglyfly,

I do believe in God, I just believe that God wants humans to think and find value in believing in God ourselves. I don't think that by asserting a bible one truly believes in God because you can believe in the bible and that the bible is the words of God... but it does not require you to believe in God.

What I think is hard is that some people carelessly believe in God, brought up to believe in God and accepting it as simply the right course to take, you'd be insane not to sorta thing, without thinking as to the value of it all. Tell me honestly and truly why it is you believe in God and Jesus Christ.

I have my reasons I will happily share but I want to read yours.

One can do good without God, one can help society without God, one can be virtuous without God, one can hold value from any act of altruism not just Jesus Christ. One can contrive better morals than the ten commandments for helping society. One can find truth from other sources of wisdom than the bible, why not, the bible was written by man.

So besides any arguments against these statements I present here, what other reasons make Jesus Christ mandatory. I think heaven is a little selfish don't you?

For example, if you were given three choices. One was that you could go to heaven but then by that act you'd be sending your brother to hell. The other choice is two have the two of you not go to either, but just end, simply. And the last choice is to sacrifice yourself to hell and your brother gets to go to heaven. What would you choose jigglyfly if those were your three choices?

Which god do you believe in, Sorrow? Again until you have been regenerated spiritually it is impossible to answer in a way you can understand. If one can find truth from other sources why are you here at TJ? The main reason that Jesus is mandatory is because God said so. No one can relate to Yahveh (God) without going through his Son.

As far as heaven being selfish, well you are just misunderstanding God's plan and purpose.

What is the purpose of your little exercise? None of the three choices bear any likeness to the truth so what relevance would it provide?

 

[Br. Bear]

Brother jiggyfly, may I comment here, please? (in blue)

jigglyfly,

I do believe in God, I just believe that God wants humans to think and find value in believing in God ourselves.The Lord has no problems with anyone checking Him out and seeking more about Him I don't think that by asserting a bible one truly believes in God because you can believe in the bible and that the bible is the words of God... but it does not require you to believe in God. You will find, if you enter through Christ, the door, you will kniow who you are talking about when you talk about God..... I used to think much as you do, and for the life of me, there was no doubt in my mind, and even when it came to the time in my life when I became a Christian, I didn't first doubt any of what I thought until then... but He simply revealed Himself to me, and it was then I realised I had previously not known Him at all.

What I think is hard is that some people carelessly believe in God, brought up to believe in God and accepting it as simply the right course to take, you'd be insane not to sorta thing, without thinking as to the value of it all. Tell me honestly and truly why it is you believe in God and Jesus Christ.He revealed Himself to me, and delivered me from the darkness I was in.... and from being a complete non-believer, and I mean complete non-believer, the type that would get up the average Christian's nose if possible, by trying to philosophise it all away, to a new creation in Him, who immediately after what is called 'conversion' , I was preaching, teaching, and rejoicing in all truth, and had not even read the Bible yet, nor knew the characters in it, but the Truth had come and dwelt in me, and empowered me with new life.... which is totally opposite to where I was, and this happened in an instant..... and I have been what some might call, 'full-on' since. That's a start to why.

I have my reasons I will happily share but I want to read yours.

One can do good without God, one can help society without God, one can be virtuous without God, one can hold value from any act of altruism not just Jesus Christ.Yes, even evil folk know how to do good to those they are one with. BUT, can any man save himself? Can any add anything to their life. All good comes from God, so it is no proof of His non-existance that people can do good. In the light and glory of Christ, though, all good works are as filthy rags. One can contrive better morals than the ten commandments for helping society.please do that then One can find truth from other sources of wisdom than the bible, why not, the bible was written by man. this is a common argument, and I know you know better... why lower yourself to pretend otherwise? You don't do yourself and the 'truth' you say you believe in, any justice.... think about it... at least be sensible in your claims, my friend

So besides any arguments against these statements I present here, what other reasons make Jesus Christ mandatory.I must be missing something, but what is all this 'mandatory' stuff? I think heaven is a little selfish don't you? If you knew the Truth, you would not think like that. Even from denial, the whole concept of selfish must be based on truth, an ultimatum, otherwise, where would boundaries be laid to base such expressions upon? Truth is really quite funky stuff... the more you dig into it, without denial, the more you see how it upholds to itself and does really well, without our help.... and can be relied upon, and built upon.

For example, if you were given three choices. One was that you could go to heaven but then by that act you'd be sending your brother to hell. The other choice is two have the two of you not go to either, but just end, simply. And the last choice is to sacrifice yourself to hell and your brother gets to go to heaven. What would you choose jigglyfly if those were your three choices?who on earth would give such wierd and senseless choices?

It appears that what you are saying in what you say, is not really what you want to say.....

So let's look instead at the Scriptures and go from there.

May I remind you (all) that Talk Jesus is not a debate forum, and it appears that this is what you are doing. Also, if you have personal questions for members, please use the Private Message section.

Try to keep the threads and posts Christ centred, and not self opinionated argument, and please don't keep trying to prove Christianity wrong. If you have any questions, please ask, but ask to learn, not to provoke a debate nor to attract attention to yourself, neither to start a personal rendition of life as you want everyone else to see it.

Bless you ....><>


Br. Bear


Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

 

[sorrow]

May I remind you (all) that Talk Jesus is not a debate forum, and it appears that this is what you are doing. Also, if you have personal questions for members, please use the Private Message section.

See... logic isn't allowed.

Try to keep the threads and posts Christ centred, and not self opinionated argument, and please don't keep trying to prove Christianity wrong. If you have any questions, please ask, but ask to learn, not to provoke a debate nor to attract attention to yourself, neither to start a

Not trying to prove christianity wrong, think about what I am saying please. :embarasse I am asking to learn, all answers help us to learn. Thomas Edison learned many ways not to make a light bulb before he found what he was looking for. Is this not related to christ? It's christianity here! This is the lounge too! <chit chat>

personal rendition of life as you want everyone else to see it.

Isn't that kinda like what evangelism is?:shock: Who do you think wrote the King Jame's bible? eace:

 

[jiggyfly]

Sorrow, which god do you believe in?