Works

[alyse2232]

I feel like these verses conflict.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
(Eph 2:8-9 ESV)
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
(Gal 2:16 ESV)

I know that the context of those verses are referring to works of the law but still if we have been saved through faith (saved which i assume means saved from death - saved from hell) if that is the case there would be no need to be judged according to our works. Yet in these two places where judgment is being referred we are being judged by what we have done.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
(Rev 20:12 KJV)

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(Mat 25:31-36 KJV)

 

[Boanerges]

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Our works are judged; it is revealed if they were done in Him following His will walking them out in His power or simply works of our corrupt flesh.
Our works can indeed be burned away as wood, hay and stubble and yet we would still be His:
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
We could do that but it would be a waste and what would we have to lay at His feet?

 

[Benoni]

I see a lot of people quote this verse here but not really look at the jewels in the context of this chapter. Yes we must have faith in God’s Word; BUT only though His Spirit. You SEE first God’s spirit must quicken you from the state of being spiritually dead in trespasses and sin; quickening your spirit so it can understand and reveal His reality; which is total contrast to faith by man having a freewill to obtain faith on his own. .<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
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1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;


(Eph. 6:17). Then the writer to the Hebrews declares that the sword of God’s word is "QUICK ."Quick means living and active — LIFE-GIVING! "For the word of God that speaks is alive and full of power — making it active, operative, energizing and effective; it is sharper than any two-edged sword" (Heb. 4:12, Amplified).


2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" oreferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><vath o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></vath><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 11.25pt; HEIGHT: 12.75pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href="http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Daa\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast

Notice the order, god must quicken us be we are dead in sins; then He saves us by grace; then and only then do we have faith and I will add once this has happen we had no choice or freewill.
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[complete]

Eph. 2:8,9
Gal. 2:16

Hi there Alyse2232.

The verses you quote from Revelation and Matthew do not have anything to do with you and I who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Lord. We have been saved by grace, for we are - by the mercy of God, living in an age of grace, all is of God through Christ Jesus our risen and glorified Lord.

We are HIS workmanship, and we have been made 'accepted in the Beloved' because of the finished work of Christ.
We are right now, in His sight, presented Holy and Without blame - 'in Christ'. (Eph.1: 4,5,6)

We have been placed 'in Christ' and He has become for us, 'wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.' (1 Cor. 1:30,31)

PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!

The verses in (Rev. 20:12 and Matt. 25:31-36) are dealing with two entirely different companies, which I have not got time to go into at the moment.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[alyse2232]

i have heard that those verses in rev and mat were relating to people who were not saved, but if that is the case it means that people who aren't saved would have an opportunity to be in heaven or the new earth if they do good works. And this also means that people who have been saved will not be judged.

 

[rlowe]

Revelation 20:12-15 (Webster)
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

To be "written in the book of life" requires living Faith.
Living Faith is faith revealed to the world by one's actions/fruit.

True CHRISTians are judged on the possitives they did or didn't do but this is for reward NOT salvation.

 

[alyse2232]

That makes sense that our faith saves us but are works are judged so that our works may be rewarded, because there are multiple places in the bible where it talks about rewards and hierarchies in heaven.

Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Boanerges]

i have heard that those verses in rev and mat were relating to people who were not saved, but if that is the case it means that people who aren't saved would have an opportunity to be in heaven or the new earth if they do good works. And this also means that people who have been saved will not be judged.

Good works wont get anyone into heaven . Only those who accept His sacrifice as the atonement for their sins will enter in.

 

[manager]

Faith vs works

Faith without works is like a screen door on a submarine.

 

[RJ]

Forgiveness Follows Life Then Salvation

Christ died for all sin: past , present and future.
He died one time for all and He won't die again for sin , it is finished.
His death removes the barrier that seperates us from God.
His death does not give us salvation.
His life gives us salvation.
His death is only part of God's Grace (free gift). As St, Paul says about the Gospel: It is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
God's Grace is Christ's death for sin and His resurrection which gives life for eternity.

Christ said : (paraphrase) He is the vine and we are the branches. If we live in Him and He lives in us, we will produce much fruit, Apart from Him we can do nothing.
It is His works (fruits) not ours, that's if he lives in us.
The very millisecond that we think that we have just produced fruit (works) then we are boasting and those works are dead.

Anyone who does not have Christ living in and through them is not saved and will not go to heaven. It is His life that will get you to promised land.

You will be judged soley on the fact that you either accepted His life or rejected his life. When you die physically and,If you have accepted His life, God will look down on you and see the perfectness of Christ in you and he will say, " Well done good and faithfull servant".

If Christ lives in you there will be works, His works. We can't judge man's works only God can, some will be teachers, some preachers, some care givers, etc. according to God's will and plan. He has a purpose for each of us.
If on judgement day, a person is seperated away (goats) from God, it is by their lack of the one fruit or works and that is the one fruit of Chist living in you, nothing else!
Thanks be to God and His Grace that He offers to everyone!

 

[manager]

It is my understanding that there are two judgments. One refers to the judgment on unrepentant sinners who will suffer the wrath of God forever in the lake of fire. But the other is the judgment seat of Christ where believers will be judged according to their works while on earth. The second judgment has nothing to do with going to hell, but what kind of rewards, if any, we will receive in heaven...

 

[spirit1st]

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

THE LORD DID DIE FOR All sins ever! But its worthless , Unless we accept HIS gospel as Truth and Him as LORD and Master of our lives and All we have!

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father

Our Spirit will desire to serve OUR LORD 100%
The outward mind is where all our problems are!



only one judgment and we do the judging with our LORD!
Still before that we get our rewards for obeying HIm and doing All things as unto HIm ! And in LOVE!

I would call it a time of Blessings by our LORD toward us!

Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Luk 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
Luk 19:21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
Luk 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
I would say , this is revealing how we will rule over the earth in the 1000 years of peace our LORD rules over the earth with us !

 

[Bambi]

Works don't save, they prove.

Works don't save a person. Works just prove you are a believer. When a person becomes a Christian there is a change in that person. Not all works prove you are a Christian either. You have to have faith also, otherwise you have nothing.
James 2:14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Boanerges]

Faith without works is like a screen door on a submarine.

So true and yet your works still will not save you.
True faith always produces works.

 

[HisFollower]

Many tend to accept whatsoever the wise and prudent(i.e. scholastic achievers) tell them, and forget that Christ tells us that the truth is hid from them, but is revealed only to babes(i.e. those that simply believe God´s Word and obey it). The works which is referred to are the ceremonies, rituals, formalisms, of the law, but not any works whatsoever, and such a notion is foolishness, especially when Christ Himself tells us to do the things which He says. Beside this, grace itself is a teacher of works, which the "no works" overseers bypass.; otherwise they could no longer tell the people to do nothing. (Titus 2:10,11)

 

[spirit1st]

We Start off babies in our Spirit ! We do not stay babies forever!
Hopefully we Mature to be like OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST!

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

He does not want us staying babies !
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.