Stumbling Blocks

[twcstp111]

Hello friends,

I have noticed for some time now that many believers will quote the scriptures and use it as a tool to deliberately set stumbling blocks in others' paths, and I have seen that it is an awful wickedness to do so. I kindly thank you for your acknowledgement of this; it is given to us to build each other up, not to tear each other down. Where there is sin, it is given to the wise to counter it, for sin is a stumbling block. As brothers and sisters go in righteous love, it is also given to them to admonish and correct one another in truth. If I quote scripture against you, and not for correction, then am I against you and not for you--such is not a building block of righteousness, but a certain stumbling block of wickedness; it is one that encourages and pursues a spiritual death of the recipient which neither renews nor refreshes them.

It is good that we should learn for goodness sake, but let us not be deceived by our own facilities. It is good that we should not create the same defilement which might have been in us; for the same that we reveal in another we have seen before we saw it in them. Therefor, even as it has been revealed to us, that we are able to bless or curse, then we ought to bless always and never curse; with everyone that we bless, so we bless our God and our Lord, and with everyone that we curse with our tongue, the same curse that we give unto another we give unto our God and our Lord.


Let us go with peace and the love of God in us. Amen.

 

[Snowrose]

Thank you @twcstp111
...for sharing your thoughts. It was much appreciated. It has been on my heart a lot lately to be careful in what I say and the importance of encouraging one another. Sure... sometimes correction is needed but can it be said in love? I'm sure it can be if we ask the Lord to direct our speech. We all have our different perspectives in what is right or wrong but in all honesty I want the Lord's perspective.

I don't know an individual's heart and why they are struggling. If the Lord can have patience with us as we learn to walk with Him, why can't we have patience with one another. I love Ephesians 4: 1-6 where it says in the Passion Translation....

1 As a prisoner of the Lord, I plead with you to walk holy, in a way that is suitable to your high rank, given to you in your divine calling. 2 With tender humility and quiet patience, always demonstrate gentleness and generous love toward one another, especially toward those who may try your patience. 3 Be faithful to guard the sweet harmony of the Holy Spirit among you in the bonds of peace, 4 being one body and one spirit, as you were all called into the same glorious hope of divine destiny. 5 For the Lord God is one, and so are we, for we share in one faith, one baptism, and one Father. 6 And He is the perfect Father who leads us all, works through us all, and lives in us all!
Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 4:1-6 - The Passion Translation

Again thank you,
Blessings.

 

[B-A-C]

Truth without love is just a clanging noisy gong. ( 1 Cor 13 )
Love without the truth is enablement, and often a straight-up lie.

I supposed when Jesus tells the people in Matt 7:21 that "I never knew you", He will say it in love, but He will still say it.
I suppose when Jesus tells the 5 foolish virgins, it's too late I've already shut the door, He will say it in love, but He will still say it.
I suppose when Jesus call the lazy servant a "wicked and lazy servant", He will say it in love, but He will still say it.
When Jesus comes back on a white horse to slay the beast, the false prophet, and his followers with the sword from His mouth, He may do it in love, but He is still going to do it.

Jesus didn't say love will set us free, He said the truth will set us free.
God may love us all, but He will certainly judge the wicked.
The Pharisees tried make excuses about why they give to the church, Jesus didn't buy it.
Jesus said if anyone loves their family more than they love Him, they aren't worthy to follow Him... He may have said that in love, but He still said it.
Jesus told His disciples if people don't listen to you, wipe their dust off your feet and move on to the next place, He may have said that in love, but He still said it.

 

[Dave M]

If I know someone who I love, and know if they go to the bar far to often.... I always quote them this scripture..

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

so is this a stumbling block? or a stern warning from the word of God,? is there a better way to warn someone then using the word of God???

 

[Snowrose]

He may have said that in love, but He still said it.

I will have to share there was a time I was struggling with a certain issue. Then came a day where I was reading a devotional where it was talking about self-pity and I knew in my heart the Lord was speaking to me on this issue. He said it but it was in love and it was so easy to receive. I share this because I have a friend who she planning to talk to me about it the next day (I shared with her what the Lord showed me) but the Lord beat her to the punch. Now I love my friend dearly but she has way of saying things but I don't feel the love in it.

Now I am sure that when the people you mention are "corrected" by the Lord...they will be grieved in their own hearts for they will see His love for them but they also see that they missed it. He may have said that in love, but He still said it. Thank @B-A-C for your words.

I've always wondered how I can speak the love of the Father in every situation....in the hard times, in the difficult moments and in times of confrontations. I still need to say it but I would like to say it in love. I'm reading 1 Peter 3:8-13 (TPT) at the moment. I don't think it has anything to do with our subject matter but it is close enough

Now, this is the goal: to live in harmony with one another and demonstrate affectionate love, sympathy, and kindness toward other believers. Let humility describe who you are as you dearly love one another. Never retaliate when someone treats you wrongly, nor insult those who insult you, but instead, respond by speaking a blessing over them—because a blessing is what God promised to give you. For the Scriptures tell us:
Whoever wants to embrace true life and find beauty in each day must stop speaking evil, hurtful words and never deceive in what they say. Always turn from what is wrong and cultivate what is good; eagerly pursue peace in every relationship, making it your prize. For the eyes of the Lord Yahweh rest upon the godly, and his heart responds to their prayers. But he turns his back on those who practice evil.

Blessings

 

[Snowrose]

is there a better way to warn someone then using the word of God???

For some reason I'm thinking of the story of the adulteress in John 8 where the Pharisees using God's word to condemn her for the sin and wanted to trap Jesus. "Doesn’t Moses’ law command us to stone to death a woman like this? Tell us, what do you say we should do with her?” We know the rest of the story.
Bible Gateway passage: John 8:1-11 - The Passion Translation

I suppose Dave I wonder how we communicate that "warning". That is what this thread is about... how do we communicate God's Word? The Lord can correct me on so many things but feel in my heart the love in it. But I've been corrected and I've seen others be corrected by other Christians but there was more judgement than love when they use God's Word. How do we use God's word when we communicate it?

Now I am just thinking out loud here. I like to be careful in how I use God's word. It is life and breath. It is a double edge sword. But do I need to be aware in how I plant the word of God in someone's heart. No I don't think that using God's word is a stumbling block but may be it is how we plant it that might be? What do you think? Do we scatter the seeds upon their hearts with love and care? Or do we force it into ground? We are stewards of His Word.

Just a thought...Blessings

 

[twcstp111]

Truth without love is just a clanging noisy gong. ( 1 Cor 13 )
Love without the truth is enablement, and often a straight-up lie.

I supposed when Jesus tells the people in Matt 7:21 that "I never knew you", He will say it in love, but He will still say it.
I suppose when Jesus tells the 5 foolish virgins, it's too late I've already shut the door, He will say it in love, but He will still say it.
I suppose when Jesus call the lazy servant a "wicked and lazy servant", He will say it in love, but He will still say it.
When Jesus comes back on a white horse to slay the beast, the false prophet, and his followers with the sword from His mouth, He may do it in love, but He is still going to do it.

Jesus didn't say love will set us free, He said the truth will set us free.
God may love us all, but He will certainly judge the wicked.
The Pharisees tried make excuses about why they give to the church, Jesus didn't buy it.
Jesus said if anyone loves their family more than they love Him, they aren't worthy to follow Him... He may have said that in love, but He still said it.
Jesus told His disciples if people don't listen to you, wipe their dust off your feet and move on to the next place, He may have said that in love, but He still said it.

I would leave here a kind reminder that He spoke in parables.

Parable:
noun. a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson. a statement or comment that conveys a meaning indirectly by the use of comparison, analogy, or the like.

Indeed, and so He spoke in parables; for to teach men, and not by the word of the written law, but by the living word that is in them. If I know that He spoke in parables, then I know that there is something being taught which is not being revealed with common tongue in the language that was spoken.

What does it mean to follow Him? Whom did He call to do exactly that?

How is it that Snowrose is able to speak the Love of our Heavenly Father in all situations? Is she following after Him, or is she with Him?


When I read the words that said the following:
"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."
“And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit ceverlasting life.”


I was troubled, and it was even as a sword; for I did ask the Lord that I might be a disciple, not knowing what He had spoken.

My will was not to forsake anyone, neither to hate any, but to help, to build, to heal, and to join together many that we might have more joy as we live and share in peace; to whom will I live, and to what will I give myself, if I have forsaken that which I seek? I declined, for there is something better than everlasting life, something more important than the reward set before me; it is hope, the hope that I have in Him for them--the hope that they will receive the imperishable crown, for it is my hope that they should receive everlasting life, those whom I love with all of my heart. Does a Shepard's Crook have a hook at the end without reason? Will He beat them with a rod rather then to use His crook's hook to guide the strays?

 

[twcstp111]

I suppose Dave I wonder how we communicate that "warning". That is what this thread is about... how do we communicate God's Word? The Lord can correct me on so many things but feel in my heart the love in it. But I've been corrected and I've seen others be corrected by other Christians but there was more judgement than love when they use God's Word. How do we use God's word when we communicate it?

100% the truth spoken through the Spirit of a wise woman!

Communication requires understanding, even as a Man and a Woman are wed; else how would the Bridegroom adorn the Bride?

 

[Dave M]

For some reason I'm thinking of the story of the adulteress in John 8 where the Pharisees using God's word to condemn her for the sin and wanted to trap Jesus. "Doesn’t Moses’ law command us to stone to death a woman like this? Tell us, what do you say we should do with her?” We know the rest of the story.
Bible Gateway passage: John 8:1-11 - The Passion Translation

I suppose Dave I wonder how we communicate that "warning". That is what this thread is about... how do we communicate God's Word? The Lord can correct me on so many things but feel in my heart the love in it. But I've been corrected and I've seen others be corrected by other Christians but there was more judgement than love when they use God's Word. How do we use God's word when we communicate it?

Now I am just thinking out loud here. I like to be careful in how I use God's word. It is life and breath. It is a double edge sword. But do I need to be aware in how I plant the word of God in someone's heart. No I don't think that using God's word is a stumbling block but may be it is how we plant it that might be? What do you think? Do we scatter the seeds upon their hearts with love and care? Or do we force it into ground? We are stewards of His Word.

Just a thought...Blessings

this is a interesting point of view, thanks for the reply. A few things come to mind here for me with this comparison.

1st .....is the difference between what I described, as someone who loves the person,, so they want to warn them,,, thinking Gods word is the best way to do it,........,,,,,,how would do it???????????

2nd........ is the condition of the heart when using scripture, I think we will agree the Pharisees heart was in the wrong place


thanks

 

[B-A-C]

the condition of the heart when using scripture, I think we will agree the Pharisees heart was in the wrong place

I think this is it.
Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers, white-washed tombs, and sons of hell. He said they were sons of the devil.
But yet he told the woman caught in adultery, - neither do I condemn you.

So why the difference? I think it was their heart towards Him.
The woman was sorry she did it, and didn't want to do it anymore.

The Pharisees weren't going to change anything.

 

[Snowrose]

A few things come to mind here for me with this comparison.

1st .....is the difference between what I described, as someone who loves the person,, so they want to warn them,,, thinking Gods word is the best way to do it,........,,,,,,how would do it???????????

2nd........ is the condition of the heart when using scripture, I think we will agree the Pharisees heart was in the wrong place

This reminds me of our Bible Study last night at church when we look at Luke 8 of the Parable of the Sower...
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 8:4-15 - The Passion Translation

I loved how Jesus shared the deeper meaning of the parable to His disciples...
11 “Here, then, is the deeper meaning to my parable: The word of God is the seed that is sown into hearts. 12 The hard pathway represents the hard hearts of men who hear the word of God but the slanderer quickly snatches away what was sown in their hearts to keep them from believing and experiencing salvation. 13 The seed falling on the gravel represents those who initially respond to the word with joy, but soon afterward, when a season of harassment of the enemy and difficulty come to them, they whither and fall away, for they have no root in the truth and their faith is temporary. 14 The seed that falls into the weeds represents the hearts of those who hear the word of God but their growth is quickly choked off by their own anxious cares, the riches of this world, and the fleeting pleasures of this life. This is why they never become mature and fruitful. 15 The seed that fell into good, fertile soil represents those lovers of truth who hear it deep within their hearts. They respond by clinging to the word, keeping it dear as they endure all things in faith. This is the seed that will one day bear much fruit in their lives.

Our pastor spoke on how each ground represented the condition of the hearts of men. As I read these words, I consider the importance of prayer before we sow the seed and to allow the Lord time to prepare each heart to receive the word....also to prepare me to plant that seed. Who knows the hearts of men better than our Lord.

God bless you.

 

[twcstp111]

This reminds me of our Bible Study last night at church when we look at Luke 8 of the Parable of the Sower...
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 8:4-15 - The Passion Translation

I loved how Jesus shared the deeper meaning of the parable to His disciples...
11 “Here, then, is the deeper meaning to my parable: The word of God is the seed that is sown into hearts. 12 The hard pathway represents the hard hearts of men who hear the word of God but the slanderer quickly snatches away what was sown in their hearts to keep them from believing and experiencing salvation. 13 The seed falling on the gravel represents those who initially respond to the word with joy, but soon afterward, when a season of harassment of the enemy and difficulty come to them, they whither and fall away, for they have no root in the truth and their faith is temporary. 14 The seed that falls into the weeds represents the hearts of those who hear the word of God but their growth is quickly choked off by their own anxious cares, the riches of this world, and the fleeting pleasures of this life. This is why they never become mature and fruitful. 15 The seed that fell into good, fertile soil represents those lovers of truth who hear it deep within their hearts. They respond by clinging to the word, keeping it dear as they endure all things in faith. This is the seed that will one day bear much fruit in their lives.

Our pastor spoke on how each ground represented the condition of the hearts of men. As I read these words, I consider the importance of prayer before we sow the seed and to allow the Lord time to prepare each heart to receive the word....also to prepare me to plant that seed. Who knows the hearts of men better than our Lord.

God bless you.

Amazing.

Indeed, it is the way that we deliver the word, the condition that is present, and the understanding that we communicate to them with the word and through the word even our own, which is able to bring a person out of darkness and into understanding; once they have received understanding and the how to of understanding, then are they able to receive wisdom--we are able to plant seeds in soil that has no root, that they might have root in themselves, which makes it possible for them to receive wisdom.

 

[Dave M]

a few other versus that come to mind

Galatians 6:1
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.


1 Corinthians 5:1-13
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. ...


Matthew 18:15-17
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Luke 17:3
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,


James 5:19-20
My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Romans 14:1-23
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. .

 

[Sue D.]

If I know someone who I love, and know if they go to the bar far to often.... I always quote them this scripture..

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

so is this a stumbling block? or a stern warning from the word of God,? is there a better way to warn someone then using the word of God???

If I were in that same situation -- being concerned because someone I love or care a lot about - was going to the bar too much -- I would possibly find something more positive to do With them. Or ask them Why they were going there? Share with them what you've been observing and that it concerns you -- see what they say.

Decades ago when my husband was in the military -- the only place To go was the NCO club. A lot of the guys got into the habit Of drinking beer -- it was handy. Well -- my husband made it a point to go in and have some Pepsi. He'd hang out with the others and be Sober. After a while some of the others started doing the same -- drinking the Pepsi. And they'd be playing cards. AFter a while there was more Pepsi than beer. And the guys were having More fun staying Sober.

So -- what is happening when at the bar. If they're actually getting drunk then they might just want someone to care enough To say something -- like invite them somewhere Else. It doesn't need to be a Bible study -- it could be out bowling or playing tennis.

Quoting Scripture doesn't have to be the 1st thing coming from another person. Sometimes simply good, clean conversation can make a good impression. Telling a Clean, cute joke or story.

 

[B-A-C]

If they aren't saved, they likely dont care what the Bible says. If they are saved. why are afraid to tell them scripture?
Sometimes we love people straight to hell because we dont want to hurt their feelings.

 

[Snowrose]

Quoting Scripture doesn't have to be the 1st thing coming from another person. Sometimes simply good, clean conversation

Hello Sue and thank you...

I work in a High School. I would love to share the Lord there but it is not allowed..... but in saying that the Lord has a way of opening up a conversation to share His love and His truth with the youth there and even some staff. I will admit I am not looking for it but I've seen days where a conversation comes out of nowhere and I'm able to speak some truth in a certain matter and yes even pray with them. (Just to let you know...scripture is very rarely used unless the Lord puts one in my heart to share with them.) I think the most important thing for me is that the Lord knows that I am available for those conversations. I love to dialogue with individuals about the Lord and His love but I need the Lord's timing in ever matter. I will admit there is times they do receive it and sometimes they don't ... but at least I waited for those open conversations and for the Lord's leading.

In James 3, it speaks of the power of conversations / our words....
1. My dear brothers and sisters, don’t be so eager to become a teacher in the church since you know that we who teach are held to a higher standard of judgment. 2. We all fail in many areas, but especially with our words. Yet if we’re able to bridle the words we say we are powerful enough to control ourselves in every way, and that means our character is mature and fully developed.
Bible Gateway passage: James 3:1-12 - The Passion Translation

Lord, I thank You for Your love and for each person who is here. You know that we love You and how we long to tell other people about You are. Open up the dialogues You want us to have and fill our hearts with Your love for these individuals and put into our mouths the Words You want us to say to them. Words that will heal, restore and rejuvenate them. Just as Jesus spoke the words the Father has told Him to speak....grant us the words and heart to speak them as well. We will be careful to give You all the glory and honour, In Jesus name.
Bible Gateway passage: John 12:49-50 - New American Standard Bible

Blessings to you all.

 

[Snowrose]

Good morning...
I just read this quote on Facebook that caught my attention on the RZIM page.....

"Too often we write people off, assuming that the gospel could never appeal to them simply on account of their education, or their history, or their temperament. Time and again, however, I am reminded that when people come face to face with Jesus Christ, His beauty outshines every competing consideration. To see Jesus is to see life in all its fullness, and that is an incomparable offer." – Jo Vitale

We may have placed people in a box thinking they will never receive God's word but we should never place God in a box thinking He is not capable of reaching people's hearts....His beauty outshines every competing consideration.

Blessings

 

[Dave M]

some more scripture that was in my daily readings, on how Paul dealt with sinners in the church
,
one key take away ,,,,,,,was Grieved into repentance

2 Corinthians 7
9As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us.

10For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

11For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in
the matter

12So although I wrote to you, it was not for the sake of the one who did the wrong, nor for the sake of the one who suffered the wrong, but in order that your earnestness for us might be revealed to you in the sight of God.

13Therefore we are comforted.


it seems a little later in the chapter Paul is getting a little more fed up or concerned, and ready to take harsh action against those who continue in sin, seems the church back in Pauls day has similar problems as our church today,

2 Corinthians 13
1This is the third time I am coming to you. Every charge must be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.

2I warned those who sinned before and all the others, and I warn them now while absent, as I did when present on my second visit, that if I come again I will not spare them—

3since you seek proof that Christ is speaking in me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you.

4For he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but in dealing with you we will live with him by the power of God.


Ultimately it is up to our-self to be responsible for our own life, and Gods word say we need to test ourselfs

5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

6 I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test.

 

[Dave M]

Good morning...
I just read this quote on Facebook that caught my attention on the RZIM page.....

"Too often we write people off, assuming that the gospel could never appeal to them simply on account of their education, or their history, or their temperament. Time and again, however, I am reminded that when people come face to face with Jesus Christ, His beauty outshines every competing consideration. To see Jesus is to see life in all its fullness, and that is an incomparable offer." – Jo Vitale

We may have placed people in a box thinking they will never receive God's word but we should never place God in a box thinking He is not capable of reaching people's hearts....His beauty outshines every competing consideration.

Blessings

I never ever think that way

all I have to do is look at the Jesus he is every-whear in prisons, in the white house, in the streets in the churches, most religions are cultured based Not Jesus he is in the Rap movement, he is the country songs, he is everywear for everyone

I

 

[Snowrose]

Good Morning...

Since this thread has started, I've been getting a lot of feeds on the importance in our conversations. I am going to share a couple ....

A devotional by Christine Caine...
GRACE AND TRUTH....
It’s essential to have balance in the way we communicate with others.
Ephesians 4:15 instructs us, … speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ (NIV). And Proverbs 3:3 further says, Let not mercy and truth forsake you; bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart … (NKJV).
Now, some people are so focused on grace and mercy that they speak little truth. Yet others focus so much on the truth that they lack grace.
By design, the two work best together. Only when we practice both will we and those listening to us flourish and become more Christ-like.
Our aim should always be, in every moment and every season, to communicate Jesus. That’s what will produce change in others and in ourselves.

A quote by Alycia Wood (Ravi Zacharias Ministry)…"By approaching a conversation with gentleness and respect, you can thoughtfully consider someone’s perspective. That’s the makings of a great conversation."

Hmmm....Makes me kind of wonder if the Lord is trying to get our attention in this matter.

Be blessed today.