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Please someone rationalise for me the appalling Old Testament Numbers Chapter 31?

Member
Where is God the Benevolent to be found in Numbers Chapter 31

(Reading this it is more like something Adolf Hitler would demand and did demand and not a God of Light and Love)


31 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.

3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the Lord of Midian.

4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.

5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.

6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. (Moses was very angry that they failed to kill them all?)

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?


16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now, therefore, kill every male among the little ones (little boys), and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. (Kill all the little boys and every woman that had had sex with a man)

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. (How would they have known which that have not had sex with a man?)


19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.

20 And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.

21 And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord commanded Moses;

22 Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,

23 Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.

24 And ye shall wash your clothes on the seventh day, and ye shall be clean, and afterward ye shall come into the camp.

25 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:

27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:

28 And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:

29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord.

30 And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord.

31 And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,

33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,

34 And threescore and one thousand asses,

35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

36 And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:

37 And the Lord'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.

38 And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the Lord'S tribute was threescore and twelve.

39 And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the Lord'S tribute was threescore and one.

40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the Lord'S tribute was thirty and two persons.

41 And Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord'S heave offering, unto Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.

42 And of the children of Israel's half, which Moses divided from the men that warred,

43 (Now the half that pertained unto the congregation was three hundred thousand and thirty thousand and seven thousand and five hundred sheep,

44 And thirty and six thousand beeves,

45 And thirty thousand asses and five hundred,

46 And sixteen thousand persons;)

47 Even of the children of Israel's half, Moses took one portion of fifty, both of man and of beast, and gave them unto the Levites, which kept the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord; as the Lord commanded Moses.

48 And the officers which were over thousands of the host, the captains of thousands, and captains of hundreds, came near unto Moses:

49 And they said unto Moses, Thy servants have taken the sum of the men of war which are under our charge, and there lacketh not one man of us.

50 We have therefore brought an oblation for the Lord, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the Lord.

51 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of them, even all wrought jewels.

52 And all the gold of the offering that they offered up to the Lord, of the captains of thousands, and of the captains of hundreds, was sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty shekels.

53 (For the men of war had taken spoil, every man for himself.)

54 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of the captains of thousands and of hundreds, and brought it into the tabernacle of the congregation, for a memorial for the children of Israel before the Lord.
 
Active
There has been debate on talk Jesus regarding the deity of Jesus, some believe him to be seperate from God and others of us believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one. Hence "Let us make man in our image" Genesis 1:26. Throughout the ministry of Jesus we are called to obey his teachings as he obeys his Father's. Isaiah 55:9 " For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts." I don't know why God commanded Moses to war, or the outcomes. What I do know is, I was lost and now I am found. I was dead and now I am alive. I am called to obey my Saviour, that is the deal, and as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are his understandings higher than mine and I believe He knows better than I.
 
Loyal
This isn't the only time in the Bible something like this happened. Entire cities, entire races of people were wiped out.

There are many theories. Some of these are very unpopular... even in the church.

Racial purity. Dare I even say that in todays world? Some people have used these verses to say God is against interracial marriage. But I don't think that's the case. I think maybe He just wanted (at least a good portion of) the Jews to remain racially pure.

Ezra 9:2; "For they have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and for their sons, so that the holy race has intermingled with the peoples of the lands; indeed, the hands of the princes and the rulers have been foremost in this unfaithfulness."
1Pet 2:9; But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
Deut 10:15; "Yet on your fathers did the LORD set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day.
Lev 21:14; 'A widow, or a divorced woman, or one who is profaned by harlotry, these he may not take; but rather he is to marry a virgin of his own people,
Deut 7:6; "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Deut 14:2; "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Nearly the entire chapters of Ezek 23, and Ezra 9.

A second, and more likely theory is religious purity.

Deut 12:30; beware that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How do these nations serve their gods, that I also may do likewise?
Jdgs 2:12; and they forsook the LORD, the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods from among the gods of the peoples who were around them, and bowed themselves down to them; thus they provoked the LORD to anger.
Jerem 16:11; "Then you are to say to them, 'It is because your forefathers have forsaken Me,' declares the LORD, 'and have followed other gods and served them and bowed down to them; but Me they have forsaken and have not kept My law.
1Kings 11:4; For when Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart away after other gods; and his heart was not wholly devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been.

When you marry a non-believer, there is a good chance they will sway you.

2Cor 6:14; Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Cor 6:15; Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?
2Cor 6:16; Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

A third theory is that some these races weren't even human, and God never planned for them to exist. The Bible mentions giants. It is thought that Satan put these giants in Canaan (the promised land) as guardians to keep the Jews
from inhabiting this land promised to them.

1Chr 20:4; Now it came about after this, that war broke out at Gezer with the Philistines; then Sibbecai the Hushathite killed Sippai, one of the descendants of the giants, and they were subdued.
1Chr 20:6; Again there was war at Gath, where there was a man of great stature who had twenty-four fingers and toes, six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot; and he also was descended from the giants.
1Chr 20:8; These were descended from the giants in Gath, and they fell by the hand of David and by the hand of his servants.

David is called "a man after God's own heart" in the New Testament, yet He killed many Giants (also Goliath). Many believe Genesis 6:2; is talking about fallen angels marrying human women.

Gen 6:2; that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.
Gen 6:3; Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
Gen 6:4; The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire

The world is telling us to be "Tolerant" of other beliefs and religions. The US was about 95% Christian until the last 40 years or so. We have let Hindu's, Muslim's and other religions start building Mosque's here. These religions are now growing faster
than Christianity. Now there are millions of these people here. Some are teaching Islam to our school children (even though this is supposedly disallowed). God Himself was not so tolerant.

Exod 34:14; —for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God—

1Cor 6:16; Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH."
1Cor 6:17; But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

Numbers31 says..

Numb 31:16; "Behold, these caused the sons of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, so the plague was among the congregation of the LORD.
 
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Active
A second, and more likely theory is religious purity.

Not a "Theory". God CHOSE to reveal Himself through Abram, and through Abram's family to the world, and God wanted to maintain (with certain exceptions) the family purity of abrahams posterity.

That is a totally different issue than anything that's going on today.
 
Active
Where is God the Benevolent to be found in Numbers Chapter 31

A monolithic concept of God is the problem. Human beings as a whole have fallen short of God's glory, and as a result are ALL under sentence of Death, both physical, and spiritual.
God is completely within his rights to execute judgement whenever, and on whomever He pleases. Romans 9 covers some of the issue. God is Love, but He's ALSO a God of Righteous Judgement.
 
Active
To answer your initial question if you will notice that there were (5) kings of the Midians that were killed along with Balaam in vs 8. This is the gist of the chapter,
the 5 kings represent the 5 senses of a carnally minded human, and they control what the human does, typically sin, Balaam represents the carnal mind in that he
infected Israel with counsel to commit trespass against the LORD vs 16. The rest of the chapter deals with the removal of the infection that caused the trespass.
 
Member
I am a born again Christian and none of you gave an answer all you did is redirect it elsewhere! If the characters of this Numbers chapter 31 were replaced by those of the Nazi regime no one would question the truth of it. I refuse to believe that an infinite Being of Infinite Power Wisdom and intelligence? Would demand, command, order mere mortals to rob rape steal murder men woman and children (specifically demanding they kill/murder boys)! That smacks more of Adolf Hitler than the Benevolent Almighty God of Light and Love that I love admire respect love and worship. What happened to the Statement by Lord Jesus? Such as "Blessed are the little children for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven etc?
 
Member
A monolithic concept of God is the problem. Human beings as a whole have fallen short of God's glory, and as a result are ALL under sentence of Death, both physical, and spiritual.
God is completely within his rights to execute judgement whenever, and on whomever He pleases. Romans 9 covers some of the issue. God is Love, but He's ALSO a God of Righteous Judgement.

There was no righteous judgement in Numbers 31 It was a command to murder rap rape and pillage, it is not righteous it is is more demonic. Face the reality of the words of this appaling chapter. What righteous judge demands the brutal murder of little innocent boys?
 
Active
Where is God the Benevolent to be found in Numbers Chapter 31

(Reading this it is more like something Adolf Hitler would demand and did demand and not a God of Light and Love)


31 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.

3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the Lord of Midian.

4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.

5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.

6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. (Moses was very angry that they failed to kill them all?)

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?


16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now, therefore, kill every male among the little ones (little boys), and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. (Kill all the little boys and every woman that had had sex with a man)

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. (How would they have known which that have not had sex with a man?)


19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.

20 And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.

21 And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord commanded Moses;

22 Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,

23 Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.

24 And ye shall wash your clothes on the seventh day, and ye shall be clean, and afterward ye shall come into the camp.

25 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:

27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:

28 And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:

29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord.

30 And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord.

31 And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,

33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,

34 And threescore and one thousand asses,

35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

36 And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:

37 And the Lord'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.

38 And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the Lord'S tribute was threescore and twelve.

39 And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the Lord'S tribute was threescore and one.

40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the Lord'S tribute was thirty and two persons.

41 And Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord'S heave offering, unto Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.

42 And of the children of Israel's half, which Moses divided from the men that warred,

43 (Now the half that pertained unto the congregation was three hundred thousand and thirty thousand and seven thousand and five hundred sheep,

44 And thirty and six thousand beeves,

45 And thirty thousand asses and five hundred,

46 And sixteen thousand persons;)

47 Even of the children of Israel's half, Moses took one portion of fifty, both of man and of beast, and gave them unto the Levites, which kept the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord; as the Lord commanded Moses.

48 And the officers which were over thousands of the host, the captains of thousands, and captains of hundreds, came near unto Moses:

49 And they said unto Moses, Thy servants have taken the sum of the men of war which are under our charge, and there lacketh not one man of us.

50 We have therefore brought an oblation for the Lord, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the Lord.

51 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of them, even all wrought jewels.

52 And all the gold of the offering that they offered up to the Lord, of the captains of thousands, and of the captains of hundreds, was sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty shekels.

53 (For the men of war had taken spoil, every man for himself.)

54 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of the captains of thousands and of hundreds, and brought it into the tabernacle of the congregation, for a memorial for the children of Israel before the Lord.

You have made one simple error. You are under the impression that "if God loves" equals that He should allow an evil to continue to exist that has and would cause terrible harm to people he has chosen to use as an example for multitudes in the future. Secondly as someone whop has studied the Hebrew Scriptures deom a cultural perspective I can illumine you to the fact that writers at that time (especially the victors) tend to hyperbolize....and we see this in the fact that Midianites (for example) continued to exist. I am sure these groups that had plagued them were destroyed but that can in no way be compares to a Hitler....
 
Active
Where is God the Benevolent to be found in Numbers Chapter 31

(Reading this it is more like something Adolf Hitler would demand and did demand and not a God of Light and Love)


31 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.

3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the Lord of Midian.

4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.

5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.

6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. (Moses was very angry that they failed to kill them all?)

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?


16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now, therefore, kill every male among the little ones (little boys), and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. (Kill all the little boys and every woman that had had sex with a man)

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. (How would they have known which that have not had sex with a man?)


19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.

20 And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.

21 And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord commanded Moses;

22 Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,

23 Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.

24 And ye shall wash your clothes on the seventh day, and ye shall be clean, and afterward ye shall come into the camp.

25 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:

27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:

28 And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:

29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord.

30 And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord.

31 And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,

33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,

34 And threescore and one thousand asses,

35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

36 And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:

37 And the Lord'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.

38 And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the Lord'S tribute was threescore and twelve.

39 And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the Lord'S tribute was threescore and one.

40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the Lord'S tribute was thirty and two persons.

41 And Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord'S heave offering, unto Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.

42 And of the children of Israel's half, which Moses divided from the men that warred,

43 (Now the half that pertained unto the congregation was three hundred thousand and thirty thousand and seven thousand and five hundred sheep,

44 And thirty and six thousand beeves,

45 And thirty thousand asses and five hundred,

46 And sixteen thousand persons;)

47 Even of the children of Israel's half, Moses took one portion of fifty, both of man and of beast, and gave them unto the Levites, which kept the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord; as the Lord commanded Moses.

48 And the officers which were over thousands of the host, the captains of thousands, and captains of hundreds, came near unto Moses:

49 And they said unto Moses, Thy servants have taken the sum of the men of war which are under our charge, and there lacketh not one man of us.

50 We have therefore brought an oblation for the Lord, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the Lord.

51 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of them, even all wrought jewels.

52 And all the gold of the offering that they offered up to the Lord, of the captains of thousands, and of the captains of hundreds, was sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty shekels.

53 (For the men of war had taken spoil, every man for himself.)

54 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of the captains of thousands and of hundreds, and brought it into the tabernacle of the congregation, for a memorial for the children of Israel before the Lord.

Hi Alan,

Can I please give you some words to the wise? Think very carefully before giving God a lecture on morality and if you're unable to understand His logic, decisions and instructions then just admit it and either accept in faith that God is Holy and beyond your understanding or ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Hurling insults at God, likening Him to Hitler is probably not a good move.

If you are a believer, a grovelling apology to God would be a good idea. If you are not then now would be an excellent time to consider whether or not you're prepared to run the gauntlet of God's judgement and which side of that judgement you want to be on, because it is going to happen.

Anyway you wanted an insight into why God apparently 'lost it' and wiped out so many people. It all starts with -

And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Genesis 2:16‭-‬17

Adam and Eve chose to disregard God's instruction, AKA sin, They both died a few years later. Not only they, but all their descendants did to. Man made his choice, and God was devastated that they had all snubbed Him and chose death.

Did God abandon man saying you made ya bed, now lie in it! No, not at all. There were still pockets of people who still loved Him, one of the most notable was Abraham. God made him a promise to love and look after his descendants.

500 years later God led His people out of slavery in Egypt. He led them towards a country called Canaan. However during the journey they proved themselves a rebellious and thoroughly undeserving people, so God sent them on a 40 year detour so that they didn't see this promised land but their kids would.

During this detour as they walked through various countries they encountered various hostile skirmishes. Read the account of Balaam in Numbers 22. I don't think that this is a full account of this story. Balaam seemed to possess an extraordinary power to bless or curse, I'm not sure whether this was a perceived power or actual, if actual then it would have been a satanic power. Anyway Balak paid Balaam not to bless Midian but rather to curse Israel. God had to intervene directly via Balaam's donkey to turn that curse around which seems to suggest that Balaam's powers were real and satanic. In his epistle Peter is very scathing of Balaam in 2 Peter 2:14-16.

Anyway Balaam's curse didn't work so it seems that Balaam advised the King to persuade the Midianite women to go out and seduce the men of Israel. This strategy was more successful in that the men were seduced, had sexual encounters and worshipped their idol gods. God was so angry with His people that He killed 24,000 of them with a plague. Read Numbers 25.

Anyway God was extremely angry that the king of Midian was paying significant sums to a satanic prophet to curse His beloved and chosen people and then to send a huge number of women to seduce the menfolk to worship idols, and that God in His righteous and Holy judgement very reluctantly decided those actions were worthy of His revenge. That's the background of Numbers 31.

Note that God commanded the total annihilation of the people of Midian. However the Israelites disobeyed Him and spared the women and children. A good proportion of these were the women who deliberately seduced the men of Israel and were indirectly responsible for the deaths of the 24,000. Obviously any virgin girls were not culpable and so they were spared and integrated into the Children of Israel.

There was another skirmish involving the Amelakites but it wasn't until 500 years later that their hostilities were avenged. 1 Samuel 15:1-3. Eventually the Children of Israel were ordered by God to invade Canaan and do what we would call ethnically cleanse it, Leviticus 18:25. Note that God declared that the people of Canaan were so utterly evil that it was the land that spewed them out. An example is their worship of idol gods offering their children as a sacrifice. Sadly the same fate was to eventually befall the Children of Israel.

Had this happened recently the press headlines would be shouting ethnic cleansing but remember we're talking about God here, He is in total control, a God of justice, this was BC before Christ so the result of sin was death and there were occasions when the sin levels required God to bring that sentence forward as in the flood, Soddom, Gomorrah and what nearly happened in Nineveh, but they all repented at the message of Jonah.

I'm absolutely certain that God was not impervious to the fear and terror experienced by the people of these nations as their judgement came upon them. He loved all of these people and I'm sure He was so badly hurt and cut up at their distress. I'm absolutely certain God could hardly wait for the second part of His plan to get underway and death could be finally trashed.

The salutary lesson from this passage is that God is holy, not fluffy. You ignore Him at your peril. I'm praying for you that God will reveal His wisdom to you and share some with you with the working of the Holy Spirit.
 
Active
A third theory is that some these races weren't even human, and God never planned for them to exist. The Bible mentions giants. It is thought that Satan put these giants in Canaan (the promised land) as guardians to keep the Jews
from inhabiting this land promised to them.
God never planned them to exist B.A.C? God knew before the creation of the world who would exist and who would be the elect he knew back then that we would be having this conversation. God is omniscient therefore he must have known and planned all things. He is also omnipresent, so he must have been there, if and when, Satan made any move to do anything, and because he is omnipotent he has the power to allow or stop anything from happening. He is God!
 
Active
The principle I am about to reveal is basic to all living creatures and though analogous is well grounded in established biological truth.

Imagine in the human body, each cell as an individual life form, which actually it is. They each likewise function as part of a specific local community (the heart, the lungs, the blood stream, etc.,). Different cells, and groups of cells, display differences in structure, appearance, life-span, function, etc., just like different humans and groups of humans! Each cell in relation to the other cells, and as a member of their particular cellular community, knowingly or unknowingly works as an intricate part of a whole which is greater than the sum of its parts. The human host, of which it is but a tiny almost insignificant part, is as the Lord is to us, in relation to the members of His body. The individual cell’s instinctual purpose, like our own, is to work to maintain and protect its self life, as well as the goals of its community life.

One of the ways they assure the survival of their type is through self-replication or offspring. Their higher purpose is actually to achieve our will and our good purpose though they are most probably totally unaware, or only vaguely, that we, as their human host, even exists. They understand little if anything about us, and our ways are higher than their ways, our thoughts are higher than their thoughts, if indeed it can be said that they even have any. They go about more or less doing the right thing in relation to one another unaware of the part they are playing in working within our overall purpose and will. Beyond their circumstantial perceptions they are working and interacting to optimize our quality of life and helping to fulfill our long term plans.

Now then, each individual cell is created in our image. They contain the image of their host within each of them (called DNA). They probably can sense an order and function interactively to enhance their mutually dependable existence. The span of their existence may be miniscule in relation to their human host, but to them it is a lifetime.

Sad as this truth is, every once in a while, a cell or some group of cells, decides they are going to do their own thing. They’re going to be their own lord if you will. They seemingly become self-willed and rebellious toward the established order. They begin to gain new converts so to speak, in great numbers, and nothing is going to stop them from their plan to take over. We call this actual biological phenomena is what we call “Cancer”! These terrorist or barbarous cells literally go into attack mode and start sapping the life out of the surrounding cells, killing as many as necessary in pursuit of their self-willed agenda. At first the effect of their violence upon their community of cells is slight and almost unnoticeable, causing some alarm, discomfort, and intermittent disturbance here and there. Regulatory norms are enforced by the greater community, and often these violent murderous outbreaks are remedied without bringing much attention or alarm to the neighboring cellular communities. However, on occasion these cells reject these corrective measures and rebel even further extending there influence outward, and begin to influence their surroundings in such a way that the immune system is alerted, and the local community has to call in specialists to eliminate these criminal cells in an attempt to protect the near by individuals, and the society at large. These are usually in the form of “anti-bodies” and white blood cells, that specialize in response to the types of violent rebellion these particular cellular individuals impose. Why try to eliminate them? Because of the inevitable threat they cause to individuals and to the greater society. The literally bring a sort of chaos into the order of things destroying the work being done there. If left on their own without being stopped they will continue to maliciously destroy and entirely take over. The forces alerted to remedy the problem will stop at nothing to prevent more senseless murder and mayhem and if necessary will even kill them. They even try surrounding them and trapping them as a first attempt by encapsulating them in a membrane or prison if you will.

If they get too powerful, or for some non-sensible reason are released, or break out of their captivity, or get away with their self-lordship too long, the cell’s lord, the human host, begins to take notice and likewise goes on alert. It likewise then takes any steps necessary to overcome or even kill the Cancer before it gets too powerful. It will irradiate, cut out, laser roast, or even chop off a limb in order to preserve the greater good and sometimes the life of the whole. Often times a number of good healthy citizen cells are called on to make the sacrifice of self for the greater good. Sometimes just the act of chasing down these devils and getting at them causes the sacrifice of good, innocent, healthy, cellular individuals. As tragic as this may seem it is the necessary price that must be paid to protect and save the most lives in the community.

So it is with God! Occasionally, God sees the development of a human cancer growing stronger and stronger. The appropriate members of the human community at large are being intimidated, persuaded, abused, and even eliminated. Sometimes He sees that resistance attempts have been, or will continue to be futile, and so He must step in and take action to save the many (which He has done on occasion), to work the greater overall good, even though we may not fully comprehend the extent of this benefit at the time.

When we have to go in and wipe out a cancer are we not grieved? There just are times when certain individuals or groups are determined to work their will against the wellbeing of others, or against the will and best interests of their Lord, and so He has to step in and fix the problem by getting rid of these human cancers, and by this He repairs the damage. Again, sometimes seemingly innocent individuals or perhaps many, may lose their lives as well. Sometimes this is necessary to maximize the optimal benefit to the many. Jesus understood this principle and so He willfully laid down His own “bios” life. Mahatma Ghandi understood this. Martin Luther King Jr. also understood this as a possible outcome of their actions..

Thus, God is not a “murderer” because He calls for death or allows it. He is a Savior and Deliverer. He knows the end from the beginning and we do not. He knows that which would come of a people and the vile and evil atrocities that His action now avoids. We do not. Besides, how dare anybody judge the living God. Again He is the creator and giver of this life (bios) and only He has the ultimate right to take it if it so pleases Him to do so. But again God is merciful and compassionate, blessed be His Name, but He is also just.

Now on occasions, if it is God’s prerogative to do so, He may call upon certain persons or groups to assist in this process of thwarting evil. Those persons or forces called to help God in this endeavor are likewise not murderers either, because they are also saving the multitudes in the future human community. Some of them are at great risk to their own lives when helping to accomplish this greater good. They are willing to lay down their life for friends and even non-friends. In many cases they are willfully risking their own reputations and lives so that the rest of us may live free from treachery, harm, and abuse.

Such is also the case when a loving caring parent protecting their children or spouse from some violent attack harms the assailant, even if it means one of them dies in the process. In such an instance, people have a legal right, and a God given instinct, to protect themselves and their offspring, and should never be subject to trials or threatened with jail, even if this results in the assailant’s death. When we hear of this on our streets, or in our countries, or in the world, we should be grateful, and honor these people as heroes, and rejoice for them, encouraging them, and be thankful to God for them. You have no idea just how much pain, suffering, torment, death, and destruction, has been averted by these selfless acts on the part of some for the sake of others. Stop giving in to the warped rationalized false sense of distorted morality of the so-called politically correct. A famous man whose name slips my mind at the moment once said, “For evil to continue to exist it only takes for good people to do nothing”!

Finally, in a more direct fashion, let me just say that our omniscient God knows the end from the beginning. Not only were most of these people (at that time) an abomination to all He willed for man, but they had usurped God’s land and His authority from the offspring of those to whom He had given it. They were violent, very perverse, idolatrous, irreverent, murderers, thieves, and more (not all od them). But more importantly, God could foresee the future of these people and knew they would not cease from this activity. He knew they would cause much more harm to the human community.

So as people who claim to believe in God, we must now in this time begin to believe God (not the same thing). We have to stop seeing Him through the eyes of the world. Remember when God said some of the religious and political leaders had rendered the word of God of no effect by their traditions? Do not follow after philosophies of vain deceit any longer. Do not be fooled by skeptics who have made endless riddles out of the word of God. If YHVH is God then serve Him. If Baal is God then serve him, but choose you this day who you will trust in, rely on, and cleave to. In the famous words of Joshua, “As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD”!
 
Loyal
are we better than those, even "numbers 31" and all those God said put to the sword, and children who dis-obeyed their parents to be stone. whom Jesus reminded the Scribes and Pharisees.

(Luke 13).
2To this He replied, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered this fate? 3No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower of Siloam collapsed on them: Do you think that they were more sinful than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

Why are those events are so puzzling for a Child of God, speaking of the person who was "born from Above" I do mean really born from heaven, and not created from above, but truly born of GOD! You know A new creature. not like the creature that is born on earth, what ever that creature is. They are not like us. But we will find out what ever that thing is that came out of Adam and Eve! The one that GOD will destroy and make it suffer for ever and for ever and for ever. I know that a lot of Christians are stuck in ruts of their christian walk. And as the day gets closer to his return, more and more christians are straying away from "The Truth" for the Bible reveals this truth is in Christ Jesus.

and their are a few, who must move on, because they are called to do so. for such things as this is only a deterrent that we should not get bogged down in, for these Truths are already reveal in "Holy Scripture". And some of us: He gives us a type of discernment that other christian do not get and neither do they understand. No matter how you try to convey, they cannot receive it! It is not earn, it is given.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.12We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.c

14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?”d But we have the mind of Christ.

And many have read this text of "Holy Scripture" and think they understand it. Now why would one get upset, if you understand this and have received this gift. it is not earn, but given before the foundations of The World. In other words, it was created in our very being or planted there in our being before there was a Heaven or hell, Angel or any other created being. That exists.

When one becomes puzzle about the written actions of GOD, That person must look at himself and ask the question have i read the whole book. and what view did i received, then read it again, and did i get another view, then again and did i get another view. each time as a whole view as i ponder each concise view of the Book. Now that person has a vision of the pattern of the view of the "The Book"! You cannot read this or love this book if you are living in sin. for you must be in fellowship with Christ. to pick up this lifestyle. It is not easy. You will find every excuse to not to engage such a journey.

Shalom.
 
Member
Not a "Theory". God CHOSE to reveal Himself through Abram, and through Abram's family to the world, and God wanted to maintain (with certain exceptions) the family purity of abrahams posterity.

That is a totally different issue than anything that's going on today.

Today we call that a crime against humanity ethnic cleansing!
 
Loyal
Today we call that a crime against humanity ethnic cleansing!

So... does today's society determine the nature of God.... or should God be determining how we should act?
Today we call homosexuality OK. We call abortions OK. More babies are killed by abortions every year than all the Midianites killed in Numbers 31. Where is the outrage for this?
We call church burning OK. We call no prayer and no Bibles in schools OK.

Crimes against humanity.... now there's a subject. What about crimes against God? I guess those don't matter?
These people that preach other religions.... Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca, Islam, ... and even other Jesus's... Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter Day Saints, (some Roman Catholics) etc...
Is that in itself a crime against humanity? This life is very short. Most of us don't make it to 100 years old. hardly any of us make it past 120.
Eternity is forever.... and ever... and ever... and ever.... Look up "googleplexian" sometime. That's just 1 second compared to how long these people will burn in hell.
If God kept His people from intermingling with people that believed in other religions.... wasn't He doing humanity a favor?
 
Active
Today we call that a crime against humanity ethnic cleansing!

Hi Alan,

You've got several people in here including me going to great lengths to explain to you their interpretation of God's reasoning for these events. You don't seem to have listened to any of them. Instead you've just repeated your allegation of God committing crimes against humanity.

I really urge you to take the time to read these posts and ask questions if you want to. I really worry about you, sure as eggs are eggs, we'll all be asked to give an account to God at the Judgement Seat. How are you going to explain to God how you've appointed yourself as His judge and you've found Him guilty of crimes against humanity?

God doesn't do crime; doesn't even do sin, couldn't if He wanted to. He's holy. What He's done for humanity isn't a crime, it's salvation. He sacrificed His son Jesus to die alone, an excruciating death to rescue humanity from its bad choice when it decided it preferred sin to God's presence.

In summary, God is not some oppressive, ruthless, tin pot dictator ruling by fear, wanting to expand his borders. No, He's the almighty, all powerful God who loves everyone of us, even those who reject Him, rebel and disobey Him, thoroughly deserving their fate, just as we once did, until we heard His calling and accepted His salvation.

Please read the posts, pray and ask God for wisdom and understanding. Tell Him you're struggling with this and ask for His help, ask His Spirit to reveal His truth to you.

God bless you, but you'll need to repent first.
 
Member
So... does today's society determine the nature of God.... or should God be determining how we should act?
Today we call homosexuality OK. We call abortions OK. More babies are killed by abortions every year than all the Midianites killed in Numbers 31. Where is the outrage for this?
We call church burning OK. We call no prayer and no Bibles in schools OK.

Crimes against humanity.... now there's a subject. What about crimes against God? I guess those don't matter?
These people that preach other religions.... Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca, Islam, ... and even other Jesus's... Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter Day Saints, (some Roman Catholics) etc...
Is that in itself a crime against humanity? This life is very short. Most of us don't make it to 100 years old. hardly any of us make it past 120.
Eternity is forever.... and ever... and ever... and ever.... Look up "googleplexian" sometime. That's just 1 second compared to how long these people will burn in hell.
If God kept His people from intermingling with people that believed in other religions.... wasn't He doing humanity a favor?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are not answering my question just like the others you redirected it elsewhere! so it is OK with you if god sends all those people of other religion to everlasting torment in a lake of fire. It is OK for God to kill people he does not like! What about? God so loved the world? As far as your googleplexian read what I wrote on a forum about that exact subject 6 years ago as follows?

]"What about crimes against God? I guess those don't matter? "] Your quote

D
o you really think that an infinite eternal Almighty Omniall Supreme being would be offended by mere puny tiny mortal men?

I am baffled just how could a mere mortal biological finite quantum particle commit a crime against an infinite All-Powerful Being it just makes no sense?

["These people preach other religions.... Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca, Islam, ... and even other Jesus's... Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter Day Saints, (some Roman Catholics) etc..."] Your quote

That is a statement of your love and compassion for your fellow humans?

According to you, God is going to send all those other depraved people of religions that are not ChristianRreduced even further by you those who you define as Christian? to burn in a lake of fire in hell forever?

There is no such number as a googleplexian? There is a Googolplex which is the largest number used i9n science or physics

  • The link to prove I wrote Forums | Reasonable Faith

    Eternity in heaven, scary thought!

    Thinking about eternity after death can be very scary indeed, while we all want to live in peace and joy forever after we die; the very unimaginable idea of everlasting eternity is daunting to our mortal understanding. How would we occupy ourselves, for eternity, would one not become mind-blowingly board with our heavenly friends in a place of never-ending, eternal happiness and peace, without any challenges after billions of years would become unpleasant like eating barrels of ice-cream.

    Try to think the moment you die, you must go to a very new and strange place full of strangers no matter how pleasant they are. If God is going to wipe away every tear and supply all our needs, what then is left for us to do, in this heavenly realm of everlasting ecstatic bliss?

    Eternity is a very long time. In fact, if you were to measure eternity it would take you forever to complete your measurement. In fact, you would not be able to finish the measurement at all, because eternity has no end.
    In fact, eternity does not have a beginning either.

    Although of course, as we think we have explained so far, it would not actually take an eternity, it would just feel that way.
  • Eternity is incomprehensible. It boggles the mind how one could even start to explain to someone how utterly and totally mind-numbingly long eternity it simply goes on forever and ever, without ever ending.

    Let us try and comprehend a very much smaller unit or number which is the unimaginable huge single Googol year? Googol (Not Google) The number google it 10 to the power of a hundred or 10.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 I keyed it in myself hopefully all one hundred zero are included?

    One ‘googol’ year, is how much? Let us take a number say 150,000,000,000 or in words, a hundred and fifty billion years and then, compress or squeeze it a billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion more years into all that time into the thickness of a single dollar note times one billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion times over, and one-googol years would give you a pile of money that reaches one hundred quadrillions, quadrillion, quadrillion, quadrillion, light-years high. It would not even fit into a universe a billion, billion, billion, and times larger than our own immense universe.

    How small fleeting and insignificant we are?

    One googol year, that’s truly staggering, totally beyond anything, a human can comprehend

  • Nevertheless, it infinitely small when compared to eternity.

  • Take this example of eternity,


  • If a small bird was to sharpen its beak on the peak of Mount Everest, once every zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, google years When the Mount Everest is completely worn down, the first moment of eternity would not yet have occurred.

    Then try to imagine someone being tormented in hell for some finite sin in a like of fire for the same never-ending eternity.
    If a small bird was to sharpen its beak on the peak of Mount Everest, once every zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, google years When the Mount Everest is completely worn down, the first moment of eternity would not yet have occurred.





    Then try to imagine someone being tormented in hell for some finite sin in a like of fire for the same never-ending eternity.

    Regards

    Alan McDougall
 
Loyal
Mr McDougall, perhaps you already have set your mind a certain way in regards to this topic, and want to help make others aware of what you perceive already, and not really wanting any explanation, other than the answer you have already in mind?
 
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