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Dear Atheist

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I use to believe in God, but I told others being in the Occult that God was hiding things from us, that God did not want us to know there were beings more powerful than he was.

This is essentially what the new-agers and satanists believe. That God was hiding knowledge and power from Adam and Eve in the garden, and they try to paint God out as the villain. A lot of secret societies teach the same doctrine, like the Freemasons for example.
 
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This is essentially what the new-agers and satanists believe. That God was hiding knowledge and power from Adam and Eve in the garden, and they try to paint God out as the villain. A lot of secret societies teach the same doctrine, like the Freemasons for example.

I can indeed confirm this. While disbelieving in a God is one thing, this is making up conspiracy theories and is just ridiculous, like saying Obama is the anti-christ *rolls eyes at Westboro*
 
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I use to believe in God, but I told others being in the Occult that God was hiding things from us, that God did not want us to know there were beings more powerful than he was.
Kind of sounds like a garden conversation I heard about.
 
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I agree with Biowza. I do not understand the connection with these things, that are not coincidences, and God. This was not a convincing article, I need more explanation.
 
Member
Hey Chad. Good on ya mate. Coincidence doesn't really work. But, the atheist thing I'd like to talk to you about if I may. I considered myself an atheist for some years but never stop thinking and have come to a clearer position. I have always believed in a creator. My position is that gods seem to be created by human beings. To me the Creator is not a god. What makes me say that? Religion does. It seems to me that every religion, and every sect of those religions have their own god. My thinking through creation, as you have mentioned above, has lead me to believe that I can never every hope to understand or define the being who created. As soon as I try to define the Creator, I put that being into a human box and make a god out of him/her/it. So I guess I am an atheist in that I do not believe in any defined god. I think the writer of Job got this.
I love the person of Jesus and i believe he was sent to demonstrate Grace to the world. I certainly do not understand how that came to be, that he was sent. I also believe that the Creator is involved in life. Anyway I won't go on. My basic thought for you is that maybe labeling people atheist is not really that simple. When someone tells me they believe in God, I have to ask: "Which one?"
I'm interested to receive your comments.
 
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This is essentially what the new-agers and satanists believe. That God was hiding knowledge and power from Adam and Eve in the garden, and they try to paint God out as the villain. A lot of secret societies teach the same doctrine, like the Freemasons for example.

I think Genesis is art, not history. To discuss what happened in the Garden of Eden as history seems to be taking what is said out of context to me regardless of which side of that argument a person is on.
 
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Truth can only be born from an argument, for unquestioned Truth has no value just like Faith untested or Authority unchallenged. Quite clearly the other half of the argument is severely underrepresented here, thus I shall take it upon myself to help you in the search of Truth.


Here's my personal letter to all atheists who deny GOD.


Dear Atheist,


Do you think its a coincidence that...
of billions of stars and planets in the many galaxies, only earth has life, and abundance of it?

The statement has no meaning until the fact that only Earth has life can be tested somehow and confirmed.


the sun is 400 times the size of the earth's moon, 400 times further away from earth than the moon, yet they look both proportionally the same size in our sky?
Yup. Coincidence. It's a coincidence that the relations of variable distance from Earth and Sun and to the Moon is closely approximating the relation of their sizes. The similar angular size is direct effect of that.
Coincidences happen.


the sun lights the days nicely, while the moon glimmers in the night sweetly and the clouds bring forth rain to water our crops, which bring forth food in your stomach?
Not a coincidence:
We developed in such way that our eye takes on exactly the optimal spectrum of what is called now "Visible light" with the Sun's peak output (500nm) smack in the middle of it. Under a different sun we would have different eyesight, and it would still light the days nicely. Without Moon orbiting the Earth and the resulting tidal wave the life would have little to no reason to leave the ocean, so we would have to develop on a different planet with a moon or stick to underwater. And without some sort of mechanism to bring forth food for us - we would not have developed on a barren planet, but would develop on a different one - simple as that.


Do you think its a coincidence that...
birds in the air whistle sweet songs and dogs show unconditional love?

Strange question
It's merely a matter of perception. Not every bird's song is pleasant, although if you grow up listening to it - you'll get used to it. As for dogs - not a coincidence: growing up having a master they know not a better way of living. Same often happens to humans who are grown in invariable environment. Kinda makes you think, doesn't it?


your body heals naturally when you cut yourself, or you become sick and it goes away?
Not a coincidence:
If it didn't - we would not have a chance of getting where we are in the first place. When you go beyond monocellular organisms - regeneration is absolutely necessary for the survival of the organism to reproductive age and thus - survival of the species.


humans have intangible senses, called emotions where we feel love, hate, anger, sadness, happiness, shock, confused, hurt, healed, and so forth?
Not a coincidence:
Those are not senses, as per se. Those are mostly hormonal states, which are mostly instinctive reactions supporting learning and survival mechanisms. Vital for survival and procreation of the organism and as such - development/evolution of the species.


Do you think its a coincidence that...
you were born from a lady's womb and you will die a death, without choice of either?

Not a coincidence:
Separation of genders allows for more effective mixing of genes, which in turn allows for a more effective propagation of survival traits. Live birthing is the way we replicate. Some creatures for example lay eggs instead. Just as with any complex system, when development of the organism is complete - decay starts. Actually there's always choice of expediting this part.


the complexity of dna is so mind boggling, that scientists worldwide now have gone from 'no god' to claiming a "Divine Creator"? (read)
Meaningless statement
DNA would HAVE TO be pretty complex to keep all the information about all the processes in an organism as complicated as ours. If some people prefer to seek a "Divine Creator" just because they fail to understand something - it's not a reason to follow in their footsteps. Fire and lightning used to be considered divine - today we use them to boil water for tea.


your body's anatomy is complex, so fine and so articulate that you wonder how this "accident" came to be?
Meaningless statement
I do not need to wonder on the subject - I learned a good deal of it. Quite a bit of it is very poorly designed, from the engineering point of view, but can be explained perfectly by the assumption that the body was originally evolving as a quadruped and merely hundred thousands generations or so passed since it started walking vertically. Ask women if they think their reproductive system is designed perfectly? Combining reproductive and waste disposal systems? Combining breathing and feeding, so that every time you drink you are a hiccup away from drowning? The couple of strings of muscle that support the body upright and develop horrible back pains in almost everybody who lives long enough? Scurvy? Appendix? Teeth, especially the wisdom teeth? I could go on for a long time.
No, if anybody DESIGNED this - that was a very sloppy job indeed. I am not impressed.


Do you think its a coincidence that...
there are endless variety of delicious fruits, vegetables, nuts, wheats to make infinite delicious recipes to satisfy our hunger?

Not a coincidence:
Variety of climates bears variety of fruits, and variety of species makes for a stable ecosystem. The fact that all of us are made of exactly the same amino acids helps us eat all that bounty of flora and fauna. If we were more constrained in what we can consume - our survival chances would drop considerably as well.


there are thousands and thousands of exotic amazing land animals and thousands more amazing sea creatures?
Not a coincidence:
See above


you have eyes so you can see, ears so you can hear, heart so you can feel, mind so you can think?
Not a coincidence:
Again - survival. If we had no vision, hearing etc. - we would have to have other ways to sense our surrounding.
If we had no mind - we would not be having this conversation.
Except for heart - if we felt with our heart, then people with the heart tansplants would be the most fearless in the history of mankind. They are not. Heart is just a blood pump. Your mind and endocrine system are responsible for the feelings.


Do you think its a coincidence that...
there are thousands of recovered artifacts proving the validity of Scripture, the Holy Bible itself? (example)

Meaningless statement
The statement requires more proof. The example does not prove validity of Bible, only its antiquity, even if its true.


those who have faith in Jesus Christ witness miracles, worldwide? (read)
Not a coincidence:
There are all sorts of cognitive biases and delusions described by psychology. Anybody lacking understanding of what they perceive and sufficiently interested in religion can interpret what they perceive as a miracle.
Look up Confirmation bias, Expectation bias, Illusory correlation, Pareidolia, Selective perception, Subjective validation, Cryptomnesia/False memory and Suggestibility


almost all Old Testament prophecies have been already fulfilled and more continue being fulfilled? (read)
Highly subjective statement to the point of being meaningless:
In the hindsight one can claim any prophecy fulfilled if it's vague enough. Feel free to use specific examples if you are interested in further discussion.


Do you think its a coincidence that...
a farmer plants the seeds, yet the farmer does not make the seed grow and the farmer never initially created the seed?

Not a coincidence:
Initially all the seeds came from nature. When the human tribes stopped moving around - they would take the game they hunted and the fruits they foraged before and start taming the first and seeding the second closer to home for better security and stability (which back then would mostly involve defensible home and a food supply).


that fruits and vegetables have seeds so that they produce more fruits and vegetables?
Not a coincidence:
This is how those species propagate and survive as species. Just like ladies bear young in their wombs. Suum cuique.


your body needs vitamins and nutrients found in GOD's natural foods such as fruits, vegetables, fish, meat, wheat?
Not a coincidence:
See above answers about amino acids compatibility and the human body flaws


Do you think its a coincidence that...
you just happened to be here on a Christian site reading this letter? (read)

I was told that I am welcome here. Even assuming that I do not believe in God. It's not a common claim, so I decided to see if it's true.
As for the letter - selective reading from a book so diverse and self-contradictory as Bible can produce any sort of material for or against pretty much any cause. It is one of the reasons I could not allow somebody use his choice of the passages to sway my opinion. If the Book is true - it must be ALL true. If half of it is literal and the other half is not, and only a priest (who happens to be a mere human) is allowed to make a distinction which is which (implying he is allowed to interpret the ineffable will of God) - than the whole thing is a sham.


your calendar says that the current year is 2009? What happened 2009 years ago?
We should probably recall that the count only started sometime around the 6th century. Until then - everybody was using the Roman calendar. Whatever happened 6 centuries before the monk who suggested it only knew from the books, which authenticity we have yet to prove. And while we are on the subject of calendars it's
year 4709 according to the Chinese calendar,
year 5773 according to the Hebrew calendar,
year 1434 according to the Islamic calendar,
year 1391 according to the Persian calendar,
year 1934 according to the Indian calendar
year 221 according to the French Republic calendar
and the very beginning of the 13th B'ak'tun (year 5201) according to the Mayan calendar
What happened 4709, 5773, 1434 etc. years ago? How much of that information is reliable?


These are my replies. You are welcome to ask further questions, and I will answer to the best of my ability.
 
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Member
Atheists annoy me how yet shove their atheism down your throat. Go on don't beleive in God, I don't care how you live your life. But for my own sake leave me out of it!
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Atheists annoy me how yet shove their atheism down your throat. Go on don't beleive in God, I don't care how you live your life. But for my own sake leave me out of it!

Greetings @Bosco

Perhaps it helps when we remember that these 'annoying atheists' are lost souls who need the Saviour.
Their lack of belief is sealing their eternal doom.
We were all once bound for hell until we turned to the Saviour and accepted His wonderful gift of Salvation

May we have hearts that burn with compassion for the lost.....that we lift them up in prayer......and deal with them in love.

Ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd...of your souls
1 Peter 2:25
 
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Member
Atheists annoy me how yet shove their atheism down your throat. Go on don't beleive in God, I don't care how you live your life. But for my own sake leave me out of it!
Certainly for Atheists on forums and on the internet, but out on the real world, i find that religion is more prevalent in their proselytizing. But i dont really find that atheists are shoving it down your throats, even on forums and the internet. Can i have an example what you mean?
 
Member

DHC

Certainly for Atheists on forums and on the internet, but out on the real world, i find that religion is more prevalent in their proselytizing. But i dont really find that atheists are shoving it down your throats, even on forums and the internet. Can i have an example what you mean?

Hello Asanima.

Among the key findings:

  • There was a 75% increase in the number of news articles containing "atheism" or "atheist" between 2006 and 2008.
  • A large portion of articles on atheism were authored by religious believers, many of which represent attacks on atheism.
  • There is nothing quite like controversy to put atheism in the news (e.g., release of The Golden Compass).
Source: Atheism in the media, google news report.

A 75% increase in news articles! Not to mention documentaries on nature, etc. Atheism is advertised continually hence
the growth of articles against it.

Non belief or lack of belief is very widespread among western nations. In my homeland it is very rare to
hear the Gospel, atheism is the norm, but perhaps not in the US. If you think it through Asanima a lack of
belief is the default position. It requires no effort at all to be devoid of belief in God.

Atheism has always existed and will always exist, it is unbelief in fact.
 
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Member
Hello Asanima.

Among the key findings:

  • There was a 75% increase in the number of news articles containing "atheism" or "atheist" between 2006 and 2008.
  • A large portion of articles on atheism were authored by religious believers, many of which represent attacks on atheism.
  • There is nothing quite like controversy to put atheism in the news (e.g., release of The Golden Compass).
Source: Atheism in the media, google news report.

A 75% increase in news articles! Not to mention documentaries on nature, etc. Atheism is advertised continually hence
the growth of articles against it.

Non belief or lack of belief is very widespread among western nations. In my homeland it is very rare to
hear the Gospel, atheism is the norm, but perhaps not in the US. If you think it through Asanima a lack of
belief is the default position. It requires no effort at all to be devoid of belief in God.

Atheism has always existed and will always exist, it is unbelief in fact.
Okay, but i suppose im confused, since i asked for examples of atheists shoving their beliefs or non-beliefs down other peoples throats. The examples youve given are of the opposite nature. Are you just making a general observation separate from my question, or did you misread my comment?
 
Administrator
Staff Member
Okay, but i suppose im confused, since i asked for examples of atheists shoving their beliefs or non-beliefs down other peoples throats. The examples youve given are of the opposite nature. Are you just making a general observation separate from my question, or did you misread my comment?

In the end, this is not important. What's important is that you accept Jesus' love, forgiveness on the Cross and begin a relationship with Him. This is not a forum to argue about who shoves what beliefs down others' throats. Doesn't matter anyway.
 
Member
Look at the things in creation, as Chad rightly pointed out. Elohim has said He proves His existence through His creations. Those who deny Him are not appreciating His creation and the qualities required for a being to make such amazing things. If you can write entire essays and theorems on evolution, then surely you can take some time to analyze what characteristics and qualities of mind are required to create the Earth and the entire Universe. After identifying the qualities, you need to really ask yourself if these things just came about by themselves? If they really weren't carefully designed and created by SOMEONE?

Romans 1:20-25
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
 
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Member
I don't ever remember a time when I didn't believe in God. Yet for 25 years I lived as one who had no belief. In fact, I am sure that there were many true atheists who were living more upright lives than I at that time. I am grateful that a Christian took the time, the effort, and risked rejection to share with me the love of Christ. I am sure there are many on thos forum who would testify the same. Surely then, because at one time we were no different from any hard-core atheist as far as our relation to God is concerned, rather than being annoyed, offended, or insulted by those who diosagree with us, we should show compassion and pity and do all we can to patiently andlovingly share with them the truth as it is in Jesus. To do this may mean risking our friendships, our reputations, but if Jesus can give up heaven for us, then surely we can give up the earth for Him.
 
Member
The last point is, I hope, the one that strikes home the hardest. Bitter atheists know inside where truth is.
I am coming to this view:
The denial of Jesus is the betrayal of our deepest self.
We are in Thessoniki supporting the Christian work.
Anyone else have a heart for Greece?
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Okay, but i suppose im confused, since i asked for examples of atheists shoving their beliefs or non-beliefs down other peoples throats. The examples youve given are of the opposite nature. Are you just making a general observation separate from my question, or did you misread my comment?

Here's an example that is so obvious, and overwhelming, I'm surprised it eludes you, or maybe not. Most people have a tendency to skip over it, because It has become so ingrained in society that to even suggest an alternative to it makes you a religious nut. Guess yet?

If you don't bow to this god (little g) or should I state it as the "state religion", they will do whatever they can to minimize you, ridicule you, question your credentials, be persecuted right out of whatever field, or institution of learning you happen to be in. Hint: It's done under the guise of Science..........I'm sure you already figured it out.

The Theory of Evolution!

You can argue that it is Science and not atheists in general, but I really don't know how you separate the two. You might be the exception if you are truly considering Jesus Christ, not only Biblically, but Historically. Yet, you too would be thrown under the bus if you were to seriously suggest allowing the possibility of god within academic circles. Even tenure might not be able to save you. (No pun intended.)

You have no choice in being taught this. From child to adult what is suggested as real solid science, a basic truth, is but a theory. For if it were truly theory then debate would be allowed. Sadly, it is not.

So, I'm pretty sure this fits the bill for having it shoved down not only the religious persons throat, but every ones.

I hope this satisfies the example you were looking for.

C4E
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