An honest question about imposing

[Skattleyatches]

Hey everyone,

As a person who became a Christian only months ago, I've been finding myself very interested in the way Christians are portrayed to other people, and I start to see questions come up in my mind. I'm also taking a class in college that is really tough to be in as a Christian because Christianity is picked apart by literally every person in the class, and it concerns me.

In my state recently it was determined that we aren't going to recognize same-sex civil unions, nor are we going to allow gay marriage. I know that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination to God, and I agree that gay marriage is wrong. However...should we as Christians make laws that affect people who aren't believers? What about those laws about abortions, and even prohibition of alcohol many years ago? Yes, I know that we ban murder and illicit drug use for a reason--they make people hurt other people. But some of these laws, at least to me, don't seem like they do much but impose on what some non-believers want to do.

Before you all think I'm a divisive, critical or wayward follower, I want to make sure you know I'm just asking these questions honestly and innocently. I see the way people act about these laws being passed--they say "stupid, intolerant Christians...they say they love everyone, yet they force their beliefs down our throats with these laws"--and I think, whoa! Intolerant, self-righteous Christians are ruining it for the ones who are humble and truly loving. Yes, we love people as we love ourselves. Or at least, we are commanded to. If a person is going to be a Christian, we cannot convince them to be. The Holy Spirit convicts and calls them to God, not us. We are instruments to share the Gospel, not convert people ourselves. So what do we do here? We aren't called to be of the world...just in it. I've read from some Christian resources that we aren't to be involved in politics; God has a plan, and that plan is going to be carried out. A Christian nation is most likely not going to come out of this. We can keep a dog from barking or drinking out of the toilet because we don't do that and we think it's wrong, but that isn't going to change it into anything other than a dog. This isn't an excuse to say "Well who cares, it'll all come to fruition anyway," but rather a wondering.

What do you all think we should do? I've decided not to vote anymore because I don't feel like it does any good. God is in control. I can say, "I think gay marriage/abortion/drunkenness/drugs is bad," but those are things I won't do and Christians shouldn't do. Even if the law says we can, Christians shouldn't do certain things. That's obvious. But should we say also that people who don't follow Christ should be kept from doing these things too, if they want to? Please give me some of your insights! Thanks so much.

 

[agua]

We should always support what God supports and oppose what He opposes. Christians can't force anyone to follow God's ways but we should make them known and not condone anything contrary to his standards. The elected government decides the laws we live under and if christians want to have any influence in this we need to support the party/candidate that most closely follows God imo. Unfortunately that is difficult because usually neither party that will gain control falls into this category but we can still have an influence by helping individual candidates with godly morals and aspirations get elected. If we live in a democracy it is a good idea to use our vote for godly purpose. It can, and does, make a difference to our society.

 

[David777]

Dear skattleyatches.

Some Christians are political.

Some Christians are not.

What is very important is linking to Jesus via the
Holy Spirit. I think our main concern is with His
Kingdom not so much with the World as such.

I have no time for politics, when all is said and done,
there is more said and done. Trying to introduce laws
upon the sinners will only increase their rebellion.
They need the Gospel and in the end that is all that
matters.

 

[agua]

......Trying to introduce laws
upon the sinners will only increase their rebellion.
They need the Gospel and in the end that is all that
matters.

I once thought like this David. Remember we do have the power to save lives with our vote. Pro-life candidates can do this.

 

[Skattleyatches]

Thanks for your quick replies!

Perhaps it is simply because I am a new Christian, but I don't feel the Holy Spirit's guiding into politics. In fact, I feel as though I should step away from them (not that I was politically inclined to begin with). I don't totally shun political conversations, and I remember the verse about being ready to give a reason for the hope within me. I still do feel like making people do (at least what we know from the Truth) is the "right thing" when they don't want to will make them angry and perhaps even make them more hostile to the Gospel than they already are. I know the Holy Spirit can break any barrier, though!

This isn't to say that I condone any of that behavior. It saddens me to see people living in (especially conscious) rebellion against God. At the same time though I see how forcing people to obey God will never make them do it out of love. Christians, those who love God and intimately know Him, will do what's right regardless of the law. It may be legal to have an abortion, but I won't. And everyone who asks my advice will hear me say that I don't agree with it. However I can't see how making people obey will change their hearts. Yes, every pregnancy that doesn't end in abortion is a life saved, and yes, the woman should have no say as to the fate the soul that is generated at conception. But I certainly didn't become a Christian because other people said "Don't do XYZ, you disgusting, hell-bound sinner! OhandbythewayGodlovesyou." The Holy Spirit brought me to God and revealed my sin to me, and made the Gospel that I heard brought forth in love so many times very, very real.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Even if the law says we can, Christians shouldn't do certain things. That's obvious. But should we say also that people who don't follow Christ should be kept from doing these things too, if they want to?

Skattleyatches, you've piled this plate high with food. I'll just chew the spoonful I've cited: In Romans, Paul talks of God's law being written on peoples' hearts, "their consciences bearing witness and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them" (Ro 1:15). God wrote His law on the consciences of every human being beginning with Adam and Eve, therefore, His law is in effect for ALL people all the time.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[Skattleyatches]

Sorry if I've overloaded my post! I'm just so very curious that I tend to spew a whole lot when I get to typing it. Hehe.

So what you're saying is that people who are in rebellion to God still know what's right in their heart? (I guess in text that can come off sounding critical, but I'm just asking for clarification!)

SLE, I never met either of my grandfathers, but I like to imagine them being as wise and godly as you!

 

[agua]

However I can't see how making people obey will change their hearts. Yes, every pregnancy that doesn't end in abortion is a life saved, and yes, the woman should have no say as to the fate the soul that is generated at conception. But I certainly didn't become a Christian because other people said "Don't do XYZ, you disgusting, hell-bound sinner! OhandbythewayGodlovesyou." The Holy Spirit brought me to God and revealed my sin to me, and made the Gospel that I heard brought forth in love so many times very, very real.

Remember God's laws and ways are for the good of all mankind. They are not for the sole purpose of christian separation. By helping elect politicians who will strive to follow God's ways, in any form, we are actually helping all citizens even if they don't know it. You are %100 correct about the importance of showing the love of Christ. We can show this love and also support God's ways without any compromise or conflict.

 

[homewardbound]

I would encourage you to continue to vote because while God is in control of all things, he often exercises that control through people. Personally, I want to be part of that. We have the right to choose laws -- and lawmakers -- whose principles reflect ours. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

In most western countries, you have two institutions that have little tolerance for the Christian world view: the mainstream media, and the education system (particularly colleges/universities). We're bombarded every day with a non-Christian world view. Some people, rather than taking an unpopular position, will follow along with whatever their being told is the "correct" way to think. But the reason your state, and most others, don't sanction same-sex marriage is simply because the majority of people are against it. The next time someone tells you they're ok with same-sex unions, ask them if they hope - or don't care - if their children are gay. I bet you'll see a nervous response. People often say one thing in public and another in private.

Throughout history, God has allowed societies that allow sin to infiltrate them to suffer some ugly consequences. It's not about Christians forcing their religion down people's throats. After all, we don't own the market on morality. It's about us doing what we can to limit the extent to which certain behaviors are tolerated because we recognize evil for what it is and what it can do to a society.

 

[jgood]

Well said, Homewardbound. I would also like to add that God never calls us to passive service to Him, but, in fact, wants us to actively serve Him, meaning He expects us to do what we know we can and should do that is in accordance with His perfect will as found in Scripture, and then we leave the results to Him.

 

[RJ]

Folly

Look up all the words with folly in it and you will see that most are about unbleivers.

Here are a few:

Proverbs 26

4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him

5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.

11 As a dog returns to its vomit,
so fools repeat their folly.


Proverbs 19:3


3 A person’s own folly leads to their ruin,
yet their heart rages against the LORD.

Ecclesiastes 2:13

13 I saw that wisdom is better than folly,
just as light is better than darkness.

Ecclesiastes 7:25

25 So I turned my mind to understand,
to investigate and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things
and to understand the stupidity of wickedness
and the madness of folly

Ecclesiastes 10:13

13 At the beginning their words are folly;
at the end they are wicked madness—

And finally from Isaiah 32:6

6 For fools speak folly,
their hearts are bent on evil:
They practice ungodliness
and spread error concerning the LORD;

It is the same with unbelievers as it has always been, with out God in them it is hopeless for them to understand, because it is all foolish to them.

The differnce now, is that we increasingly live in such a liberal, anything goes society. The political pressures are so great, that liberalism is creeping into the Church at a rapid rate.

I don't worry about Armagedon and only know enough to understnd the basics about end times, besides, everyone has their own Armagedon, the day that they die and meet their Maker.

So, hold to your beliefs..never argue, do it in love and honnor the truth and you won't have to worry about imposing!

Just know that we will struggle and that God is in you and that he promised to complete his work in you....read your Bible...grow your faith and put on the "Full Armour of God"....because we are going to need it!!

 

[brakelite]

What do you all think we should do? I've decided not to vote anymore because I don't feel like it does any good. God is in control. I can say, "I think gay marriage/abortion/drunkenness/drugs is bad," but those are things I won't do and Christians shouldn't do. Even if the law says we can, Christians shouldn't do certain things. That's obvious. But should we say also that people who don't follow Christ should be kept from doing these things too, if they want to? Please give me some of your insights! Thanks so much.

Hi. I must say I am impressed by your thoughtfulness and maturity in one so young, both in age and in Christ. You have certainly, as one other said, piled the plate high so to speak, and have given us much to chew on.
As one takes even a cursory peek through Christian history, one cannot help but be impressed by the decline in spirituality the moment the church gets involved in politics.
Benjamin Franklin was the source for one of my most favourite quotes and although his faith is doubtful, I believe his wisdom was never in doubt:
"When religion is good, it will take care of itself; when it is not able to take care of itself, and God does not see fit to take care of it, so that it has to appeal to the civil power for support, it is evidence to my mind that its cause is a bad one."

I have no problem with an individual Christian entering politics if that is what God calls him to do. After all, look at Daniel. However, with Franklin's quote in mind, we need to take note of Revelation 13 which clearly speaks of a global religious system using the civil power to enforce religious dogma upon mankind. I am utterly convinced this will be in our lifetime, thus to vote today risks aiding the very system or individual who may be instrumental in establishing the mark of the beast and fulfilling prophecy.

Your questions regarding abortion and homosexuality are more difficult. In my country same sex marriage is now common place. While I personally opposed it and still do, and the churches divided over the issue, the fact is all will in the end stand before God to answer for their actions. Meanwhile, it is for us to remain firm in our convictions, to take a stand when called to, and with courage and fortitude speak out against unrighteousness when the opportunity presents itself.
There is no such thing as a Christian nation. Nor will there ever be. The Kingdom of God is not of this world, and I think it would pay for us to take heed of Jesus own words
Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said,
Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.