Loyal
So do you believe that religious symbols and actions such as baptism have some value, or no value?
Detaching yourself from Religion and following Jesus
Active
If kept in the proper place water baptism can be a good thing. But when people think that water baptism is necessary for salvation then that is vain religion. When people use other people performing a baptism different than theirs to separate themselves from those people, then that is vain religion. The same goes for communion and even if you want to celebrate some other celebration. The problem is using these practices to determine who is a "good christian" and using these as a way to justify yourself without trusting in Jesus. Even praying and reading the bible can be done religiously and end up vain.
Active
Well I can only speak for myself but sure the issue isn't physical but spiritual. The enemy I guess is the corrupting spirit of self justification that cones out as religion.
Member
Amen brother I agree
Loyal
Jas 1:26 If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
Jas 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
The word, "Religion' simply means, "to worship God"
thrēskeía; gen. thrēskeías, fem. noun from thrēskeúō (n.f.), to worship God, which is from thrḗskos (G2357), religious, pious. Worshiping or worship.
It appears that what a person "says' out of his mouth is connected to pure religion (to worship God) that is undefiled before God. So, if a person visits orphans, and widows in their affliction, and does not "bridle" his tongue, his acts, which seem to be good to everyone, and to himself are defiled and worthless!
I do remember Jesus saying that it is not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out of him. (Mark 7:15)
I think James pretty much said the same thing.
Jas 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.
How can a man worship God (be religious) and not bridle his tongue in which he uses to worship God?
Jas 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
The word, "Religion' simply means, "to worship God"
thrēskeía; gen. thrēskeías, fem. noun from thrēskeúō (n.f.), to worship God, which is from thrḗskos (G2357), religious, pious. Worshiping or worship.
It appears that what a person "says' out of his mouth is connected to pure religion (to worship God) that is undefiled before God. So, if a person visits orphans, and widows in their affliction, and does not "bridle" his tongue, his acts, which seem to be good to everyone, and to himself are defiled and worthless!
I do remember Jesus saying that it is not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out of him. (Mark 7:15)
I think James pretty much said the same thing.
Jas 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.
How can a man worship God (be religious) and not bridle his tongue in which he uses to worship God?
Active
I'm not exactly sure what your stance is on this subject is. Are you saying that if I visit the needy and live my life in accordance with the "rules" and can bridle my tongue that my religion is pure? I have met many Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, amd even some catholics that could fit these requirements and do not trust Jesus for their salvation. Instead they trust that they are good by "performing all the right things as they should be performed." What is your take?
Loyal
What I said, and what scripture defines as pure religion before God is connected to what a person says out of his mouth. All the good works that a person might do means nothing if that person does not bridle his tongue in what he says. Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, can't do this because what they say is wrong as no man can tame the tongue. (James 3:8) Only the person controlled by the Holy Spirit (obviously born again) can speak the right things because God is a Spirit, and they that worship God must worship him in Spirit, and in truth. This is pure religion in the sight of God! (John 4:24)
Active
Thank you that does make it much better. A pure worship is the product of the Holy Spirit's work in your life. I like that.
Loyal
once the truth is spoken is that not enough??? or do you continue to the point it becomes bickering??
2 Timothy 2:23-24
Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,
I for one support corporate worship as the bible teaches this is good.
I do not support mans traditions and false teachings of some of the mainstream denominations.
We are far stronger and can accomplish much more together, then we can alone.
Loyal
Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Jas 3:7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
Jas 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Jas 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Bridling the tongue is something only the Holy Spirit can accomplish in the life of a believer, but it does not happen automatically it has to be a decision we make to offer our body as a living sacrifice unto God which is part of our spiritual worship unto God.
Rom 12:1 I appeal to you, therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Religion is connected to worship and in speaking for that is what the word, "religion" means.
We never bridle our tongue to speaking the truth of God's word, we speak the truth of his word in love. It is all the other words we should never say that contain doubt, and unbelief which comes from the flesh that defiles us.
Active
Religion as it is today is evil and blinding. I understand that as christians we want to hold on to certain things of a more comfortable past. Maybe we want to hang onto the meaning of words that we grew up with or hang on to doing certain things that made us happy. But by doing that you run the risk of withdrawing from reality. Religion is about choosing comfort over Jesus. Real worship can no longer be defined as religion. To define christianity as religion is to bring confusion to many lost and hurting people and new christians seeking real guidance.
Loyal
We shou
We should never make conclusions based on anything other than the word of God. Opinions do not make things true. Anytime man adds to or takes away from what scripture has already said makes religion (to worship God) into a bad thing, and turns them into the traditions of man that makes the word of God ineffective.[/QUOTE]
Active
The world belongs to the prince of darkness. Remember darkness is a form of light as well. It is shining forth in darkness. The Light rises and folks want to kill it because the heart is pricked. Just as they done to Him, they will do to us (me).
Its not about fixing this world, we cant fix what God has ordained it to be. Its about going forward in Him, by Him, for Him. It is His will. I cant ask God to take it from me any more than Jesus could.
But where do I begin? how? when? ... It began a long time ago and His wisdom and understanding gets stronger as i go...through this world. It doesnt put me on anyones A list, nor does it get me invited to come speak.
All praise, glory and honor be unto God.
Its not about fixing this world, we cant fix what God has ordained it to be. Its about going forward in Him, by Him, for Him. It is His will. I cant ask God to take it from me any more than Jesus could.
But where do I begin? how? when? ... It began a long time ago and His wisdom and understanding gets stronger as i go...through this world. It doesnt put me on anyones A list, nor does it get me invited to come speak.
All praise, glory and honor be unto God.
Active
[/QUOTE]
I appreciate what you said. I have made several posts in this thread about what real worship is and how I feel about any practices that people do. My issue has always been about people using these things that are harmless and some even good to do harm to themselves and others. My issue is with people seeking justification outside of Jesus and teaching others to do likewise.
The problem is that for most everyone else religion does not mean true worship of God in a relationship with him. To most everyone else religion puts christianity in the same arena as islam, hinduism, and all those other religions. Religion is the justification for heinous demonstrations of hate, wars, and mass killings. Religion is putting yourself into bondage to rules that cannot guarantee true hope. You can use the word religion to describe true worship and have your meaning of worship lost on everyone and sow confusion or you can use another word. Like maybe worship or my favorite relationship. I believe that relationship portrays a much better description of true worship than religion ever could.
I was once told that people defend the word religion so much because they want to use the word to defend their own vain religion. I hope that is not true.
Member
I'll toss in my two cents. I think there's a tendency to paint all churches with the same brush...ultimately though all churches fall short of being perfect, but with that being said some are better than others in my view.
I see posts such as the original one here frequently on Christian sites. I believe human beings crave community, they want unity, and naturally many want everyone to see things exactly the way they do. "If only everyone had my deep understanding everything would be wonderful".
I switched churches about a year and a half ago. After moving to a new town in 2015 I started attending a church called Trinity and I enjoyed it....it wasn't perfect of course, no church is. After about 2.5 years though I felt I needed more, Trinity I found was more concerned with its own survival than in furthering the relationship between the congregants and Christ, there was so much fund raising and the organizers of various events would go up to the pulpit at the opening of the service to say "the corn roast raised $2,500" and the congregation would applaud.....I won't say that I hated it, but I didn't like it.
That's when I found out my son's soccer coach was a pastor of another church in town called Fellowship. I talked to him, asked him what denomination it was. "Reformed" was the answer but then he asked me if I attended worship somewhere....I told him I was attending Trinity and he said something like: "As long as you're hearing The Word its all good". That intrigued me so I decided to visit his church one Sunday and I've been going ever since.
I go to church to feel connected to God....the music, the fellowship of fellow believers, the sermons...it all helps. I can also feel connected in my car, or when a Christian men's group I've organized plays basketball Wednesday nights. Jesus is Lord of all days and all places, but having a special place to go on a special day....one where a couple of hours are solely devoted to God is important to me. There are times during worship where I suddenly feel like I don't exist, its hard to describe but I feel like I'm part of something that is everything....but as soon as I become aware of it its gone.
For a time my wife didn't want to attend church with my son and I...and I told her that I was fine with it. I told her that my belief is that God doesn't give a [HASH=4036]###[/HASH]# if she goes to church or not, and I used the word [HASH=4036]###[/HASH]#. Its my belief that one should go to church because one WANTS to go, not because its a REQUIREMENT, I don't believe it is.
I know there are others who judge me to be lacking because I feel the want and need to belong to a faith community....oh well, there's only one whose judgment matters.
I see posts such as the original one here frequently on Christian sites. I believe human beings crave community, they want unity, and naturally many want everyone to see things exactly the way they do. "If only everyone had my deep understanding everything would be wonderful".
I switched churches about a year and a half ago. After moving to a new town in 2015 I started attending a church called Trinity and I enjoyed it....it wasn't perfect of course, no church is. After about 2.5 years though I felt I needed more, Trinity I found was more concerned with its own survival than in furthering the relationship between the congregants and Christ, there was so much fund raising and the organizers of various events would go up to the pulpit at the opening of the service to say "the corn roast raised $2,500" and the congregation would applaud.....I won't say that I hated it, but I didn't like it.
That's when I found out my son's soccer coach was a pastor of another church in town called Fellowship. I talked to him, asked him what denomination it was. "Reformed" was the answer but then he asked me if I attended worship somewhere....I told him I was attending Trinity and he said something like: "As long as you're hearing The Word its all good". That intrigued me so I decided to visit his church one Sunday and I've been going ever since.
I go to church to feel connected to God....the music, the fellowship of fellow believers, the sermons...it all helps. I can also feel connected in my car, or when a Christian men's group I've organized plays basketball Wednesday nights. Jesus is Lord of all days and all places, but having a special place to go on a special day....one where a couple of hours are solely devoted to God is important to me. There are times during worship where I suddenly feel like I don't exist, its hard to describe but I feel like I'm part of something that is everything....but as soon as I become aware of it its gone.
For a time my wife didn't want to attend church with my son and I...and I told her that I was fine with it. I told her that my belief is that God doesn't give a [HASH=4036]###[/HASH]# if she goes to church or not, and I used the word [HASH=4036]###[/HASH]#. Its my belief that one should go to church because one WANTS to go, not because its a REQUIREMENT, I don't believe it is.
I know there are others who judge me to be lacking because I feel the want and need to belong to a faith community....oh well, there's only one whose judgment matters.
Loyal
For me, the preaching is far from the most important part of a church, or the biggest factor in deciding which church to belong to.
I listen to a lot of podcasts from some of the most gifted Bible teachers alive today. No church in my locality has any chance of matching them.
Think of preaching or Bible teaching in terms of spiritual food. There are chefs who can serve up exquisite delicacies that send the taste buds soaring, and that's great. But we can all live off decent honest nutritious home cooking just fine.
What's most important to me, is the culture of a church - is it a group of people that is committed to each other, and living out the life that Jesus commands? Is it the kind of culture that will challenge me, hold me accountable when it's needed, and help carry me through the tough times when they come? I want to belong to a church that will pray for me and support me in my walk of faith. Also, I want to be free to serve others in the same way.
If these things are in place, I can happily sit through any number of average sermons.
I listen to a lot of podcasts from some of the most gifted Bible teachers alive today. No church in my locality has any chance of matching them.
Think of preaching or Bible teaching in terms of spiritual food. There are chefs who can serve up exquisite delicacies that send the taste buds soaring, and that's great. But we can all live off decent honest nutritious home cooking just fine.
What's most important to me, is the culture of a church - is it a group of people that is committed to each other, and living out the life that Jesus commands? Is it the kind of culture that will challenge me, hold me accountable when it's needed, and help carry me through the tough times when they come? I want to belong to a church that will pray for me and support me in my walk of faith. Also, I want to be free to serve others in the same way.
If these things are in place, I can happily sit through any number of average sermons.
Active
I also don't care much if there is a good preacher. What I would like is a church that is growing. Where most of the people are seeking a more intimate relationship with God and trying to help others do that to. I am looking for a family to invest myself in.
I left my last church because only one person was seeking a closer relationship, everyone else was comfortable in their religion and familiar problems. I still talk to that one person on an almost daily basis. By the way it was a small church of less than 20 regular people.
I left my last church because only one person was seeking a closer relationship, everyone else was comfortable in their religion and familiar problems. I still talk to that one person on an almost daily basis. By the way it was a small church of less than 20 regular people.