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You Deal with God

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I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man. (Hosea 11:9)

The Lord thus makes known His sparing mercies. It may be that the reader is now under heavy displeasure, and everything threatens his speedy doom. Let the text hold him up from despair. The Lord now invites you to consider your ways and confess your sins. If He had been man, He would long ago have cut you off. If He were now to act after the manner of men, it would be a word and a blow and then there would be an end of you: but it is not so, for “as high as the heavens are above the earth, so high are his ways above your ways.”

You rightly judge that He is angry, but He keepeth not His anger forever: if you turn from sin to Jesus, God will turn from wrath. Because God is God, and not man, there is still forgiveness for you, even though you may be steeped up to your throat in iniquity. You have a God to deal with and not a hard man, or even a merely just man. No human being could have patience with you. You would have wearied out an angel, as you have wearied your sorrowing Father; but God is longsuffering. Come and try Him at once. Confess, believe, and turn from your evil way, and you shall be saved.

Charles Spurgeon
 
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RJ

Come and try Him at once. Confess, believe, and turn from your evil way, and you shall be saved.
I do so believe in this, and as much as I love Surgeon and much of his work, I find this a bit odd and disconcerting for me, that he says this, and yet, he believes in predestination with specifically no free will !
 
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yet, he believes in predestination with specifically no free will !
Though this particular devotional does not speak of it, and the association made to Spurgeon concerning his belief in predestination, I believe you've made more than one reference to this of him. :) I myself have no problem with this. Maybe, I would if I could see into the heart of everyone.

The only way for me to come to grips with the concept is to attempt to know God through His word, and if only in some small way try to see through the eyes of God who sees only truth and cannot be deceived. The following are questions I posed to myself in the past and repeat aloud, not necessarily to you now, but to refresh myself that my God is all knowing and if He chooses who He wills I once again have no problem with. For who am I to say differently? When has the creation ever dictated to the Creator anything that was not within the boundaries of His will? Allow me to speak aloud if I will.
  1. Is my God all knowing?
  2. Has He chosen who is to be His?
  3. Did He not know this before the beginning of time?
  4. Do I doubt His word concerning His Saving Grace?
  5. Do I believe that I could have come to know this grace without faith being given to me sufficient to salvation? or
  6. Am I somehow the arbiter of my own salvation?
  7. Since I cannot see as He sees, how can I ever know who is to be saved and who is not?
  8. Has my task been to make this determination, and only go to those who I believe He has chosen? and if so, how would I know?
This are but a few of the many questions I have asked myself. I look throughout Scripture and see that it was He who choose Abraham; Israeli, nations to uplift, nations to bring down, David, the Disciples, Paul, and I believe everyone who has come to call Him God, Lord, and Savior! If I was a more prideful man, I might take umbrage at this. Yet still questions besiege me?
  • Who am I that He would take notice?
  • What has me so different than any other sinner that He would choose me? (Tears)
Nothing, in me my brother! There is no grain of goodness in me that He did not put there Himself; and this by the Holy Spirit who is God!

So if one was to say they don't believe in predestination, and another that they do. This would change what for me? Have I gained or lost a greater salvation? Would I then doubt my own salvation, that I see as not mine but my Lords? In either case would I not still fall on face begging mercy for being a craven sinner? Even as tears well up in my eyes and run down my cheeks; my answer I say is no! No difference at all.

So, brother; if you desire to tell me why you do not believe in predestination or why predestination cannot be. Please, do so. I will listen attentively, and give honest responses. Whether we come to a conclusion to agreee to disagree. Will I not still love you Brother RJ?

With all this being said. I most go! My wife calls me to dinner! And though I love you, I won't be missing this meal! LOL
YBIC
C4E
P.S. I'm sending this without my usual 30 minute review and prayer! As always...in the Lords hands I leave it. God Bless brother.
 
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greetings;
It is God; who has given ALL men a measure of faith.
It is God; who has tilled the soil.
It is God; who has given that faith increase.
It is God; who has lighted the candle.
It is God; who delivered.
It is God; who chastens.
It is God; who loves.
It is God; who keeps.
It is God; who strengthens.
It is God; who puts me to my knees.
It is God; who keeps me crying out, Abba Father.
It is God; who has saved.

I could go on and on and on; at the end of which I simply say.... IT IS GOD. Amen.
It is God in us; that keeps us humble before His throne.

All praise, glory and honor be to God. Amen
 
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RJ

Though this particular devotional does not speak of it, and the association made to Spurgeon concerning his belief in predestination, I believe you've made more than one reference to this of him. :) I myself have no problem with this. Maybe, I would if I could see into the heart of everyone.
  • I did emphasize for me, so this is my particular opinion. As far as I know, this is the first time that I have said anything about Spurgeon's belief in predestination but I do have are call issue at times.
  • Who can actually see into a heart of man other than God, but one's own verbal commitment, speaks volumes!
  • Actually, I have no problem with predestination but coupled with NO choice, that concerns me. I am not calling Spurgeon a Calvinist, but like Calvin, he has openly stated that predestination means no free will.
  • For me, I see nothing in the Bible, from Adam on, where God has excluded free will choice by man.
  • I don't see God as a ,Master Puppeteer, who elects alone with no choice from us.
  • I can only see a combination of predestination and free will. I choose today and God saw this at the foundation of the world and put me in the Book of Life. I was created and predestine to be saved by choice and not created and saved at the same time.
So, brother; if you desire to tell me why you do not believe in predestination or why predestination cannot be. Please, do so. I will listen attentively, and give honest responses. Whether we come to a conclusion to agreee to disagree. Will I not still love you Brother RJ?
So, when God says the exact words predestination or elect, I believe it! But, I believe it from a spiritual view and not a worldly view of those terms. I am still looking for where God says: "RJ, you have no choice in any of this"!
 
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Just a thought .... God is not bound by or in time (Peter 2:38) He knew us from the beginning (Isa 46:10) He knit us in our mothers womb (psalm 139:13) Our God is awesome and His love for us is infinite as all His attributes are, yet our flesh diverts or attempts to divert the focus away from the message to the messenger. We are no longer seeking truth and understanding of Gods word But......
 
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greetings;
God reveals to us the path to pursue; now it is our choice, to do or not to do.
Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Do you know Him? or is it still about you?
To live is Christ; to die is gain.

Have we walked in His shoes? in His very steps?
He is our example, God sent before us.
Paul got it, Stephen got it, and many more.
Some ran away, before He went to the cross; others pressed on and carried their own cross.

I praise you Lord; I am not blind. Amen
 
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So, when God says the exact words predestination or elect, I believe it! But, I believe it from a spiritual view and not a worldly view of those terms. I am still looking for where God says: "RJ, you have no choice in any of this"!
The problem will understanding "free will" or the lack there of. Is that one must know God's will for us to know if it's a choice of our own making or a byproduct of His will! I'm sure at times we have tested God, being the petulant children that we are. Yet He has not abandoned us, and has placed us or guided us if you will to being back on the right path. Does this prove free will or that God is guiding us as a loving Father thereby negating free will? Notice I do not use "puppeteer" except to tell you that I abhor this type of reference made to our God!

By the way. Did Jonah really have a choice? :) Sorry brother couldn't help it. As I told you before. In truth, to me, it does not make a difference which side of the ledger it falls to. I am His, and I rejoice!!!! Alleluia! Simple I know. But I've never said I was anything but a simple man.

Also, I would apologize if I inferred incorrectly that you had made this point before. Someone else, maybe B-A-C made a comment to this as well, in a previous Spurgeon Devotional. Hope you will forgive, and that you still love me brother!

YBIC
C4E
 
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RJ

The problem will understanding "free will" or the lack there of. Is that one must know God's will for us to know if it's a choice of our own making or a byproduct of His will! I'm sure at times we have tested God, being the petulant children that we are. Yet He has not abandoned us, and has placed us or guided us if you will to being back on the right path. Does this prove free will or that God is guiding us as a loving Father thereby negating free will? Notice I do not use "puppeteer" except to tell you that I abhor this type of reference made to our God!

By the way. Did Jonah really have a choice? :) Sorry brother couldn't help it. As I told you before. In truth, to me, it does not make a difference which side of the ledger it falls to. I am His, and I rejoice!!!! Alleluia! Simple I know. But I've never said I was anything but a simple man.

Also, I would apologize if I inferred incorrectly that you had made this point before. Someone else, maybe B-A-C made a comment to this as well, in a previous Spurgeon Devotional. Hope you will forgive, and that you still love me brother!

YBIC
C4E
Though, like many things about God I can't explain, like how resurrection or Mary's conception actually happened, I believe in a form of combination of predestination and free will!
Nothing I say or adhere to should take away from the fact that Jesus is Lord and Savior, Amen!
I respect your thoughts and in no way discredited your way of looking at things. So, saying that and a little insight on one of driving forces is my belief that many a Christians and Non-Christians alike suffer from bondage of untruth. There are many different types of bondages to untruth and I have even started a thread on the subject. Here are just a few:
  • I am not good enough
  • God must not love me
  • I can't speak tongues
  • I haven't been water baptized or my baptism didn't work!
  • Here is one closer to home: " I must not be one God's elect or he has predestined me to hell"!
What does it mean that "Jesus died once and for all".... does it mean that he died only for those who God chose and so, everyone else...just tough luck? I used to go to a Presbyterian church and I always heard a kind of what I thought was a joke, they were often referred to as the "Frozen Chosen". I wonder if that is due to the fact that predestination is a part of their Book of Order! I will have to research that sometime!:laugh:
 
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I respect your thoughts and in no way discredited your way of looking at things.
As I do you brother.

I believe in a form of combination of predestination and free will!
I don't believe we are conflicted in how we see predestination. For I believe as "ph8th" stated below. God is NOT bound by time. I truly believe He is outside of time. So that predestination through our eyes might mean one thing, but to God it would be irrelevant, because Past/Present/Future to Him "just is". Time is our construct in existence, not His.

God is not bound by or in time
Thanks for adding your post.

As far as free will is concerned RJ, first we need to define what it is? Once that is done many other questions will arise, but will get to them later :D

So what is "Free Will"?
 
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greetings in the Lord,
Simply put, Mary's conception and resurrection is the power of God.

I, also, would like an understanding to what you believe in brother RJ; a form of combination of predestination and free will. This is... confusion.

Yes, most curious, what is free will?
blessings
 
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RJ

t
I don't believe we are conflicted in how we see predestination. For I believe as "ph8th" stated below. God is NOT bound by time. I truly believe He is outside of time. So that predestination through our eyes might mean one thing, but to God it would be irrelevant, because Past/Present/Future to Him "just is". Time is our construct in existence, not His.
  • For sure, in God's realm, there is no up, no down or space/time continuum as we know it. God can't not be limited by which he created. He is the Alpha and Omega and That would be at the same time.
  • Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. I have seen where different Predestinationist also use this verse and call it "The divine decree foreordaining all souls to either salvation or damnation." If this is all that there is to it, so be it! It does not effect my relation with Jesus one bit!
  • But, I see it differently,.....He foreknew who would chose him, because in his realm he can, and, then based on man's choice, he also predestine them. Doesn't fit into the narrative of a worldly / secular definition of predestination, but little does concerning God! God predestine to save those who believe of their own free will. God has already forejudged all things according to His goodness and righteousness, therefore, those who ultimately do not chose his free gift, he has pre-ordained to hell!
So what is "Free Will"?
  • God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do.
  • God created humans in his image. Genesis 1:26 Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. He gave us the supreme power to reason. He does not reason for us, we do that on our own. Everything in our life is dictated by our power to reason and make a free will choice. Unless, God dictates everything in our life, why would he give us such latitude in our life, to only take it away in the end? Like our Creator, we have free will.
 
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RJ

Simply put, Mary's conception and resurrection is the power of God.
Yes, agreed but you miss the point;)
You gave me what they were not how exactly they occurred!
I, also, would like an understanding to what you believe in brother RJ; a form of combination of predestination and free will. This is... confusion.
Yes, most curious, what is free will?
Sorry, I can not explain it any better than my previous post replies to Christ4ever.
 
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If this is all that there is to it, so be it! It does not effect my relation with Jesus one bit!
You know this is really of little affect as you say RJ. Which is "EXACTLY RIGHT"! Alleluia!
The important part for us both and should be for anyone is that we are His!

I could go on responding to the other parts of what you have written, but I won't for I felt moved not to post what I had prepared as a response. Had almost half a page written and was still going!! :laugh: However, as I stated in my first post to you concerning this subject:
No difference at all.
:) I leave you with only one verse, because it really says it all my brother!

1 John 4:19 "We love him, because he first loved us." Which to me is one of those "WOW" verses!

Love you brother RJ!
C4E
 
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RJ

1 John 4:19 "We love him, because he first loved us." Which to me is one of those "WOW" verses!
Of course, God's love to us is prior to our love for him......he put us into the Lamb's Book of Life and pre-ordained us to love him before we even existed! That is a "WOW", Amen! ;):)
 
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