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Woman in Ministry

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What Does The Bible Say About Women In Ministry?

Do women have a place in ministry? If so, to what extent? Is there scriptural basis for a woman to be in any position of authority in the church? What does the Bible really say about this issue? To understand God's intentions, we must go back to the very beginning of creation to see His original purpose for both man and woman.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Genesis 1:27).

"Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" (Genesis 5:2).


It is interesting to note that God called both male and female, "Adam" in the day they were created. Adam means "man." Adam and Eve were created with God-ordained differences from each other, but together they made a full "man," or a complete picture of God Himself. There was perfection in their union. Their differences were not a source of discord or inequality, but a beautiful compliment to each other. Together, God gave them the task of overseeing and ruling His creation

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:28).

Notice that God gave the above commission to them both. There is no hint that there was anything but equal authority between man and woman as they existed in a sinless state. What changed things? In the next few chapters of Genesis, we find that sin entered the heart of Adam and Eve. The result was a temporary curse placed upon both man and woman, which would affect the whole earth.

Genesis 3:14-19: "And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

This curse has affected all aspects of creation, from the ground itself (infested with weeds and thorns) to human relationships. (I say temporary, because in Christ this curse is removed, as we shall see later on).

When Eve ate the forbidden fruit and enticed Adam to sin with her, one of the consequences for women was the loss of equality with men, as men were to rule over women, instead of men and women ruling together. She would now be "ruled by her husband." However, when Jesus came as sinless Man and died as the Messiah on the cross for us, all things were restored positionally. In actuality, the restoration of man (men and women) began to take place at that very moment.

Though the complete cleansing of the curse has not yet been manifested on the earth, the day is coming when it will be so. Or to put it another way, all those who receive Jesus as Savior receive restoration as Sons of God, but not all of us walk in that restoration--yet. Through Jesus, the curse upon women has been lifted. Women no longer have to receive pain in childbirth nor are they inferior to man with him ruling over them. Women can now be restored to their original place and plan that God had for all His "sons." Although we do not see all things restored at this time, "legally" in the spiritual realm, they already have been.

Adam was the head of the first race of mankind; and Jesus is the head of the last race, the adopted children of God. God only sees two races--the Adamic race (all natural-born mankind) and His children through Jesus (all those born of the spirit).

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (I Corinthians 15:21-22).

Once we are born into the kingdom of God, we become new creatures in Christ. In the Spirit, we find there is "neither male nor female," just as there are no race distinctions nor class separations. The Lord looks on the hearts of His new creatures and therefore does not discriminate when He offers His love and privileges. Women are not excluded from any of God's promises nor callings merely because of their sex.

Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

God's Masculine and Feminine Traits

As we stated above, the command to have dominion over and subdue the earth was given to both Adam and Eve. They were both to rule and reign over the Lord's creation. The very act of subduing something requires authority, aggressiveness and leadership, as well as humility, tenderness, patience, and the ability to respect the intrinsic value of what we are ruling. Most of all, it requires love.

Within God's own nature we find these same qualities. Both men and women are to become like Him as we are conformed to His image. Since this is true, there are times that under the unction of the Holy Spirit a woman should assert herself boldly. (This assertion, however, should not necessarily be toward others, but rather toward the enemy, Satan!) For men and women to become overcomers they must have this boldness and authority over the devil. God still desires that His people rule and reign with Him. His intention is to qualify us for that position, whether we be male or female.

"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen" (Revelation 1:6).

Even though "kings" is a masculine term, this is the ultimate destination He desires for all of His people. The Lord often uses both male and female terms to refer to both sexes. Women are to live in the "hidden man of the heart" (1 Peter 3:4). Both men and women in the church are referred to as "the bride of Christ." God has both a masculine and feminine nature. The mother heart of Jesus was evident as he prayed over Jerusalem.

[/i]"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37). [/i]

Submission is considered to be a feminine trait. However, Jesus submitted to the cross under the direction of the Father. If we walk in the Spirit, we too will possess both the masculine aggressiveness and feminine submissiveness of God.

Both submissiveness and aggressiveness are God-given strengths. Yet, both can be perverted, so that we become submissive and aggressive in the wrong ways, with the wrong attitudes. Because these qualities are so misused and misunderstood by the world, they have become distasteful and despised. If aggression is frowned upon, submission is viewed in an even more negative light in western culture. We equate submission with weakness and lack of spirit. Nothing could be further from the truth. There was never a human being more submitted to God than Jesus Christ-- yet never was there one as completely resistant to the system of the world! It took extraordinary submissiveness and aggression for Jesus to overcome the world. For the Christian, whether we are male or female, He is our model. We are to possess His qualities and use them according to the needs around us.

Women as Ministers

How does all of this lead up to women ministers? Perhaps you are thinking that although we have laid a biblical foundation for "neither male nor female" in Christ, certain verses in the New Testament still seem to ban women from ministry positions in the church. Let's examine these verses for the true interpretation.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law" (1 Corinthians 14:34).

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:11-12).


In these verses, Paul cannot be addressing women who were in the ministry, but rather those in the congregation who were out of order. How do we know this? We have many such proofs, many from Paul himself. Here is a partial list of women who were all in influential positions of leadership in the early church.

Pheobe (Romans 16:1-2): This woman was a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea, who was beloved of Paul and many other Christians for the help she gave to them. She filled an important position of leadership. It would be a difficult stretch of the imagination to say that this woman fulfilled her duties without ever speaking in the church!

Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Priscilla and her husband Aquila are often mentioned with great respect by Paul. Together they were pastors of a church in Ephesus, and were responsible for teaching the full gospel to Apollos. We are informed that they both taught Apollos, and pastored the church together. In fact, Priscilla is sometimes listed ahead of Aquila when their names come up. This has led some to speculate that of the two, she was the primary teacher and her husband oversaw the ministry. At any rate, we see here a woman in a very prominent position of teaching and pastoring. (Other references to Priscilla and Aquila are Acts 18:2, 18; Romans 16:3, and I Corinthians 16:19).

Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3): Here we see reference to two women who were "true yokefellow" and who labored with Paul in the advancement of the gospel.

Junia (Romans 16:7): In this verse we see Paul sending greetings to Andronicus and Junia, his "fellow-prisoners" who are of note among the apostles. Junia is a woman's name. In some modern translations, an "s" has been added (Junias) because the translators were so sure a woman could not be an apostle, that they assumed a copyist has accidentally dropped the "s." However the proper male ending would have been "ius," not "ias." No church commentator earlier than the Middle Ages questioned that Junia was both a woman and an apostle.

Though there were other women throughout the Bible in positions of leadership, such as prophetesses, evangelists, judges, leaders, etc., the above references should be enough to establish that women were indeed a vital and normal part of church leadership. Paul expected women to speak in the church, or else why would he have given the following directive? It would have been useless to give directions for women who were speaking in the church, if they were never allowed to do so.

1 Corinthians 11:5, "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven."

Furthermore, if Paul believed that all women should never teach or speak in church, why does he commend many women who did just that?

With all this in mind, what then do we make of the troubling verses that command women to be silent in the churches? First of all, we must interpret those verses in light of what we have just established--that there were women in leadership positions of the church. Obviously, Paul is not writing to them. He is must be addressing another issue entirely--the women who were loud and unruly during the service, causing disorder and confusion..

When he wrote the Corinthians, he was dealing with a church that was very disorderly in their services. Much of the letter was spent correcting excesses and abuses. Some of these pertained to women in particular and some were to the entire church. Paul is not being prejudiced against women when he instructs the Corinthian women to keep silence. In the early church the seating arrangement was quite different from our modern day churches. Men were seated on one side of the church while the women and children were seated on the opposite side. This is still practiced in many cultures today.

The women of Christ's day were generally uneducated and usually only the men were privileged with an education. Due to this situation, when the church met the women were tempted to shout across the room and ask their husbands the meaning of whatever was being taught. This disturbed the service. Paul was simply saying during the service, "Women, keep your children quiet and you be quiet, and if you have anything to ask your husbands, wait until you get home." Because of the new equality that Christianity brought to women, it could be that some of them were taking their freedom too far, to the point of being obnoxious.

When Paul wrote to Timothy, he gave him a similar directive. Again, it is important to understand the context in which the letter was written. In I Timothy, a careful reader becomes aware that many severe heresies and false teachings that were being dealt with. We can draw a conclusion here that many of the proponents and victims of the false teachings were women. Timothy pastored in Ephesus, and it has been suggested that goddess worship might have played a large part in Paul dealing so severely with the women. Ephesus was a primary center of the worship of Diana or Artemis. The heresies being taught might have suggested that women were authoritative over men and had higher access to spiritual knowledge than men did.

Regardless of the particulars, in both cases we can see that Paul is dealing with specific incidents in specific churches for very particular reasons.

We must understand that many of Paul's epistles dealt with local problems and his commandments are not meant to be taken as "commandments" across the board for all situations. Rather, we are to seek the Lord for the basic principal that needs to be incorporated in our churches. Because of Old Testament precedents that had already been set, apparently it never occurred to Paul re-establish the case for women in ministry. Why would he need to? The early church took it as a matter of course that Jesus would call and ordain anyone He chose--and that settled it! As a matter of fact, the Bible mentions a prophetess who was in the Temple when Jesus was brought there as a baby. Her name was Anna (Luke 2:25-35), and she was one of two people who recognized Jesus as the Messiah because of her sensitivity to the Holy Spirit.

Paul's writings are sometimes misunderstood today because we do not know all the details that led him to write as he did. We must rely on the Holy Spirit, and the rest of the testimony of Scripture to interpret how we are to apply these things to our everyday lives. Scripture should always be compared with other Scripture and the context taken into consideration. Even in Paul's day, there were those who tried to twist the meaning his words.

"...His (Paul's) letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do other Scriptures, to their own destruction" ( 2 Peter 3:16).

It is a fair conclusion that the testimony of the bulk of Scripture, church history and God's anointing upon them, all speak plainly for women being able to fulfill all positions of the five-fold offices of apostle, prophet, pastor, evangelist and teacher.

Ministering Today

It has always been a strange doctrine that will allow women to go to foreign mission fields and teach heathen men, but will not allow the "heathen" men at home to be taught by the same women! It makes absolutely no sense to think that a female who is learned in the Scriptures cannot teach a male who is unlearned. Additionally, it is acceptable for many women to teach Sunday School to children, and for mothers to teach their sons. Where do we draw the line and say to the women that can no longer teach a male once they reach a certain age? This may seem like a ridiculous scenario, yet there are those in the church who teach along these lines.

Those that are dogmatic in excluding women from the ministries of God usually are not walking in the Spirit, as they see women after the flesh (viewing her sex), not after the Spirit (seeing her heart and calling). The Lord admonishes us in His Word that we are not to look at one another with regard to our sex, race, class or culture, but rather we are to see one another through spiritual eyes.

"Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation: To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God" (2 Corinthians 5:16-20).

God wants to use any person who will yield to His Spirit, regardless of that person's sex or capabilities. Those who are a new creature in Christ have His capabilities.

Our problem is that we must see there are rules for the fleshly, or earthly man, and there are rules for the spiritual man. Then, we must discern when to apply the appropriate Scripture. We are admonished in 2 Timothy 2:15 to "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

The Five-Fold Ministry

The Lord gave the church gifts of His choosing in the form of men and women who would lead the church into perfection (Ephesians 4:8-12).

It is the Lord who calls men and women to His ministry. He does not call special people, but the call goes out to "whosoever will." First, we are called to salvation; then as we walk in obedience to Him, He calls for us to be baptized in His Holy Spirit. As we continue to obey and follow Him, He then may choose us to serve Him in a full-time ministry. He chooses people for the ministry out of those who have walked in obedience to His other calls. He desires that all follow, but can only choose those who are obedient. These men and women who have answered the call are set in the ministry by Jesus Himself. Man's ordination does not qualify them, but the ordination of God does. Men will recognize those who are truly called by Him. They will even recognize women who are called of God as God empowers them with His anointing and power which cannot be denied.

God has used many modern day women in His service as well as women spoken of in the Bible. Madame Guyon, Catherine Booth, Jessie Penn-Lewis, Aimee Semple McPherson, Corrie Ten Boom and Kathryn Kuhlman are only a few of the women on the list of great five-fold ministry gifts to the church. What are those gifts and that ministry? "And His gifts were (varied; He Himself appointed and gave men to us,) some to be apostles (special messengers), some prophets (inspired preachers and expounders), some evangelists (preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries), some pastors (shepherds of His flock) and teachers'' (Ephesians 4:11, Amplified Bible.).

When this Scripture says, "appointed and gave men to us," it does not mean just the male sex. The same man whom God created in the beginning which included male and female is the one referred to here. These "men" are both male and female and they have a responsibility to bring others into the maturity that they possess.

Ephesians 4 continues, "His intention was the perfecting and the full equipping of the saints (His consecrated people), [that they should do] the work of ministering toward building up Christ's body (the church), [That it might develop] until we all attain oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the full and accurate knowledge of the Son of God; that [we might arrive] at really mature manhood....the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christ's own perfection -- the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ, and the completeness found in Him'' (Ephesians 4:12-13, Amplified Bible.).

The Lord has lofty intentions for His men and women and desires that they come into perfection and maturity even as Christ walked in that perfection. The Lord sends those whom He chooses to bring about this maturing and perfecting. If we have been raised in a traditional church, the idea of coming into perfection may sound impossible--even heretical! However, it is clearly a Biblical precedent and until we understand it we will not be able to understand God's full intention for His body. The separation of laity and clergy is not God's plan for His people. All that are called to salvation are called to a full-time ministry in the Lord. This does not mean that all should leave their secular occupations, but all should devote their lives to the Lord and be as committed and active in witnessing, learning and growing in God as the leadership.

The leadership that God raises up is those men and women whom He trains for His work in the kingdom. Women have been limited in traditional churches to certain positions that men would give them, but the Lord is restoring His full five-fold ministry in these last days to prepare the body of Christ for His return.

Further Questions

If Jesus wanted women to minister, how come all His disciples were men? This question is actually raised from a misunderstanding of the word "disciple." Jesus had many women disciples. These include, Mary and Martha (John 11:1-4, and may other references as well. Mary and Martha, along with their brother Lazarus were among Jesus' closest friends). In addition, Jesus had many other women followers as well.

Luke 8:1-3, "And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and showing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance."

For the sake of brevity, I will not include other lists of names of women who followed Him. However the Scripture makes it clear there were many of them.

In another incident, Jesus motions to the crowds that followed him and said, "Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother" (Matthew 12:49-50).

In John 1:1-42, we see that it is a Samaritan woman who leads a large population of her community to Jesus.

Why didn't Jesus choose any women to be among His twelve original apostles? Jesus could not choose women to be among the twelve because it would not be wisdom for men and women to be travelling about together when many of them were single. Also, the twelve apostles fulfilled the "type and shadow" of the twelve patriarchs, so they had to be equal to men (Revelation 21:12, 14). However, this doesn't mean that he does not anoint women to fill an apostolic role today, as we already established in the case of Junia.

Jesus showed a great deal of respect for women--and children as well. In the culture of Jesus' day, these were often deemed "lower class" so to speak, and not worth paying serious attention to. However, Jesus repeatedly broke this unspoken rule. Because His actions were so unusual, those closest to Him were often surprised and annoyed.

Woman, Thou Art Loosed!

We pray that this teaching will encourage many women, who might otherwise relegate themselves to the "back burner" to instead step forward into the full calling of God upon their lives. Likewise, we pray that men who have been taught against letting women minister will see the truth of the fullness of God's plan. No matter who we are in the Lord, we will be held responsible for how we treated others and how we either hindered or helped the cause of Christ on Earth. Those in leadership especially need to heed this warning with reverent fear. Just because we have believed something our whole life, or because our denomination or culture teaches us so, doesn't mean it is correct. If you have a problem with seeing women in the pulpit, or in any position of leadership, we pray that you will prayerfully seek the Lord with an open heart on this issue.

In conclusion, let us read the following promise from the prophet Joel. This prophesy was initially fulfilled at Pentecost, and as we draw closer to the End, we can expect to see it fulfilled in even greater measures.

Acts 2:17-21, "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
 
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Woman , Thou Art Loosed

Chad said:
What Does The Bible Say About Women In Ministry?



Woman, Thou Art Loosed![/i]
Chad

I am soooooo happy to hear you say this!! Its hard when God has called you and most people say be silent.!! We should follow God not what others think we should be and do. Well I didnt know you believed this so I havent said much til now. I m glad I came back. I dont have to be silent on here anymore After all you are the Administrator ! :smile:

Actually where it says not to "usurp authority over the man" -"THE" man - is her husband. It didnt say "A" man or " MEN". If God has put her in a certain postion and her pastor or those over her see her calling, she is not usurping anything. Male OR female are to have a right attitude. I ve personally known some men who yell "submit to every word I say to you!!! and hit them over the head with Bible verses daily. That is also rebellion and out order, and not loving them "as Christ loved the Church", the part they so conveniently leave out.

You mentioned how they used to sit on separate sides and because they were not educated couldnt understand so would try to speak out during the service to ask their husbands to explain. Thats why it says they should talk to them later at home and he can explain. But the point is, we cannot understand many things in the Bible with our "western " mind when it the Bible is an "eastern" Book with eastern customs. In that part of the world women were not considered as a person but a posession, as was their other possessions. Some places women dont even eat with them, but in another room or after he has his meal, like in Asia. Some even have to walk BEHIND their husbands not besdie them. Just look at the religions over there . They treat the women like dirt. Thats why Paul had to teach and correct them. Jesus came to free us from oppression even in this way. Remember He was criticised for talking to the woman at the well, and the woman with the alabaster box. But now we are free to be what the LORD created us to be.!!!
And bless you so much Chad for your encouragement.
 
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Good post Chad. But I have to disagree about some of the scripture used. Galatians 3:28 needs to be read and refered to in context, when it is used to support women in leadership of the body of Christ in this fashion someone could also argue that since there is neither male nor female in Christ then same sex marriage is ok for believers.
There are many more scriptures that deal with this subject that weren't mentioned. I have not come to a full truth concerning women in leadership yet. So I'm not saying you are wrong, but all the facts haven't been covered either. What about 1Timothy 3 and Titus 1 and although Paul recognizes some women as servants ( not deaconess) that does not support women leadership. Ephesians 4:11-16 is all in the masculine form just like 1Timothy and again in Titus. I am not against women but I'm not ready to support something because of a mindset brought about from the equal rights movement. I am going to be for Gods thought on this subject, either way, but it hasnt been revealed to me yet. Maybe it will happen thru this post.
 
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Anyone can bear witness to Jesus. In fact everyone is called to give witness to the lost. And when you think about it. Spreading the world of God is the most important job we have.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
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Adstar said:
Anyone can bear witness to Jesus. In fact everyone is called to give witness to the lost. And when you think about it. Spreading the world of God is the most important job we have.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Thats right Adstar and I believe that when we become born again we all become ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in word and in deed.
 
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Women were and are no less than men in God's eyes. He did however place them in specific roles. Did i read your post where you said women no longer suffer in childbirth? If so you seem to be exaggerating somewhat. Many verses can be posted to support either side of the issue. What is the primary focus is can a woman be a Pastor in a Church?

I like what Paul says, if you find a verse that contradicts, this please post it;
[left]KJV 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;[/left]
 
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ecarg said:
Women were and are no less than men in God's eyes. He did however place them in specific roles. Did i read your post where you said women no longer suffer in childbirth? If so you seem to be exaggerating somewhat. Many verses can be posted to support either side of the issue. What is the primary focus is can a woman be a Pastor in a Church?

I like what Paul says, if you find a verse that contradicts, this please post it;
[left]KJV 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;[/left]
Exactly, good post.
 
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...

And The Lord Created Women

By the time the Lord made woman, He was into His sixth
day of working overtime. An angel appeared and said,
"Why are you spending so much time on this one?"

And the Lord answered, "Have you seen My Spec sheet on
her? She has to be completely washable, but not plastic,
have over 200 movable parts, all replaceable and able to run
on diet coke and leftovers, have a lap that can hold four
children at one time, have a kiss that can cure anything from
a scraped knee to a broken heart - and she will do everything
with only two hands."

The angel was astounded at the requirements.
"Only two hands! No way! And that's just on the standard
model? That's too much work for one day. Wait until
tomorrow to finish."

"But I can't," the Lord protested. "I am so close to finishing
this creation that is so close to My own heart. She already
heals herself when she is sick AND can work 18 hour days."

The angel moved closer and touched the woman.
"But you have made her so soft, Lord."

"She is soft," the Lord agreed, "but I have also made her tough.
You have no idea what she can endure or accomplish."

"Will she be able to think?", asked the angel.

The Lord replied, "Not only will she be able to think,
she will be able to reason and negotiate."

The angel then noticed something, and
reaching out, touched the woman's cheek.
Oops, it looks like you have a leak in
this model. I told you that you were
trying to put too much into this one."

"That's not a leak," the Lord corrected, "that's a tear!"

"What's the tear for?" the angel asked.

The Lord said, "The tear is her way of expressing her joy,
her sorrow, her pain, her disappointment, her love, her
loneliness, her grief and her pride".

The angel was impressed.
"You are a genius, Lord. You thought of everything!
Woman is truly amazing."

And she is!
Women have strengths that amaze men!
They bear hardships and they carry burdens,
but they hold happiness, love and joy.

They smile when they want to scream.
They sing when they want to cry.
They cry when they are happy and laugh
when they are nervous.
They fight for what they believe in.
They stand up to injustice.

They don't take "no" for an answer when
they believe there is a better solution.
They go without, so their family can have.
They go to the doctor with a frightened friend.

They love unconditionally.
They cry when their children excel
and cheer when their friends get awards.
They are happy when they hear about a
birth or a wedding.
Their hearts break when a friend dies.

They grieve at the loss of a family member,
yet they are strong when they think there is no strength left.

They know that a hug and a kiss can help to heal a broken
heart.

Women come in all sizes, in all colors and shapes.

They'll drive, fly, walk, run or e-mail
you to show how much they care about you.

The heart of a woman is what makes the world keep turning!
They bring joy and hope.

They have compassion and ideals.
They give moral support to their family
and friends.
Women have vital things to say and
everything to give.

However, if there is one flaw in women,
it is that they tend to forget their own worth.


--"God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference"--
 
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We pray that this teaching will encourage many women, who might otherwise relegate themselves to the "back burner" to instead step forward into the full calling of God upon their lives. Likewise, we pray that men who have been taught against letting women minister will see the truth of the fullness of God's plan. No matter who we are in the Lord, we will be held responsible for how we treated others and how we either hindered or helped the cause of Christ on Earth. Those in leadership especially need to heed this warning with reverent fear. Just because we have believed something our whole life, or because our denomination or culture teaches us so, doesn't mean it is correct. If you have a problem with seeing women in the pulpit, or in any position of leadership, we pray that you will prayerfully seek the Lord with an open heart on this issue.

I like this one. . .thanks for posting this interesting thread all in all, Chad
May God continue to bless you and keep you safe and well fed in His Holy Spirit :love:
 
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peeps said:
We pray that this teaching will encourage many women, who might otherwise relegate themselves to the "back burner" to instead step forward into the full calling of God upon their lives. Likewise, we pray that men who have been taught against letting women minister will see the truth of the fullness of God's plan. No matter who we are in the Lord, we will be held responsible for how we treated others and how we either hindered or helped the cause of Christ on Earth. Those in leadership especially need to heed this warning with reverent fear. Just because we have believed something our whole life, or because our denomination or culture teaches us so, doesn't mean it is correct. If you have a problem with seeing women in the pulpit, or in any position of leadership, we pray that you will prayerfully seek the Lord with an open heart on this issue.

I like this one. . .thanks for posting this interesting thread all in all, Chad
May God continue to bless you and keep you safe and well fed in His Holy Spirit :love:
This is a tipical case where some read ONLY what they believe instead of believing what they read. Please do not avoid or ignore God's instruction in 1Timothy 3.
1Timothy 3:1-12
Leaders in the Church
1*It is a true saying that if someone wants to be an elder,* he desires an honorable responsibility. 2*For an elder must be a man whose life cannot be spoken against. He must be faithful to his wife.* He must exhibit self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. He must enjoy having guests in his home and must be able to teach. 3*He must not be a heavy drinker or be violent. He must be gentle, peace loving, and not one who loves money. 4*He must manage his own family well, with children who respect and obey him. 5*For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God’s church?
6*An elder must not be a new Christian, because he might be proud of being chosen so soon, and the Devil will use that pride to make him fall.* 7 Also, people outside the church must speak well of him so that he will not fall into the Devil’s trap and be disgraced.
8*In the same way, deacons must be people who are respected and have integrity. They must not be heavy drinkers and must not be greedy for money. 9*They must be committed to the revealed truths of the Christian faith and must live with a clear conscience. 10*Before they are appointed as deacons, they should be given other responsibilities in the church as a test of their character and ability. If they do well, then they may serve as deacons.
11*In the same way, their wives* must be respected and must not speak evil of others. They must exercise self-control and be faithful in everything they do.
12*A deacon must be faithful to his wife, and he must manage his children and household well. 13*Those who do well as deacons will be rewarded with respect from others and will have increased confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus.
 
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peeps said:
We pray that this teaching will encourage many women, who might otherwise relegate themselves to the "back burner" to instead step forward into the full calling of God upon their lives. Likewise, we pray that men who have been taught against letting women minister will see the truth of the fullness of God's plan. No matter who we are in the Lord, we will be held responsible for how we treated others and how we either hindered or helped the cause of Christ on Earth. Those in leadership especially need to heed this warning with reverent fear. Just because we have believed something our whole life, or because our denomination or culture teaches us so, doesn't mean it is correct. If you have a problem with seeing women in the pulpit, or in any position of leadership, we pray that you will prayerfully seek the Lord with an open heart on this issue.

I like this one. . .thanks for posting this interesting thread all in all, Chad
May God continue to bless you and keep you safe and well fed in His Holy Spirit :love:
I would also like to add, that being called of God does not make you a leader in the Body of Christ, we are all called. Character and spiritual maturity are important also to becoming a leader in the Body.
 
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er...im not sure where i stand on this,you all make good points.I cant seem to recall a woman giving a sermon in the bible with a christian male present?If i am wrong on this i will happily stand corrected.
 
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sparky said:
er...im not sure where i stand on this,you all make good points.I cant seem to recall a woman giving a sermon in the bible with a christian male present?If i am wrong on this i will happily stand corrected.
Sparky, I'm not sure either. I think you are wise to admit it. I think it is unwise to make a call without refering to all the truth concerning anything. That is why we need to be led by the Spirit of Truth.
 
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Soldier of God said:
We can read scripture all day and each get something different and never agree. This is clear as water immediatly. I have read scripture and read these exchanges, one thing and one thing only stands out to me. If Jesus was ministered to by women, what kind of man can I be in Him, if a woman isnt worthy to minister His Gospel to me. Is my learning through in this life? Can my learning only come from a man? A woman led me to the Lord directly guided by the Lords hand. God bless all


Luke 8:1-3, "And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and showing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance."
1 timothy chapter 3
 
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I will not in any way make my sisters feel bound up in our Lord Jesus Christ . The only reference to the scripture I will make is that when Jesus rose from the dead , the first messenger he chose was Mary ! Now , I love all my brothers and sisters in the Lord here and have sat at the feet of many women , and learned great truths about the Lord ! Now the facts about todays church . If it were not for women , the echo inside the sanctuary would sound like yelling over the gran canyon ! Brothers In Arms Ministries , is about men stepping up , and into the order God called them to ! Kathryn Kullman [ a great woman of God ] always said that the only reason she accepted the leadership role she had in ministry , is because the Lord showed her that the man that was called first would not do it ! The same thing for today . I will not go against the scripture on this matter . But I will say that until the men arise from their slumber , then God will use women to take their place ! God used a donkey to speak his wishes , and the man listened to that donkey ! So in a very hard reality way , I want to respond to this . Men - either stand up - or shut up ! And please do not respond to the remark about Kathryn Kullman . That is just my opinion of her as a minister of God . If God used a donkey who has no standing in the church , Then I know he will use his beautiful daughters for his work . For they a much more valuable to him then any rebellious man ! Brother Mike
 
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Men - either stand up - or shut up ! :shade:

A lot of controversy could be avoided if more people
understood God`s intended definition of the 'ministry'
A womans place is not in a position of leadership.
A mans is`nt either if he does`nt know what it means
to minister to the people of God.
 
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Soldier of God said:
You are hungry jiggyfly so I bring you bread. This view may be clear to you. Do you believe scripture, or the scripture you choose?


Old Testament history includes accounts of strong female leadership. Miriam was a prophet, one of the triumvirate of leaders God sent to Israel during the Exodus period (Exodus 15:20). Deborah, as prophet and judge, led the army of the Lord into successful combat (Judges 4 to 5). Huldah, also a prophet, authenticated the scroll of the Law found in the temple and helped spark the great religious reform in the days of Josiah (2 Kings 22; 2 Chronicles 34).

The New Testament also records ministering women in the Church Age. Tabitha (Dorcas) is called a disciple and had a ministry of helps (Acts 9:36). Philip had four virgin daughters who prophesied (Act s 21:8,9). Euodia and Syntyche were Paul's coworkers who shared in his struggle to spread the gospel (Philippians 4:2,3). Priscilla was another of Paul's exemplary "fellow workers in Christ Jesus" (Romans 16:3,4, NIV). In Romans 16, Paul greets a multitude of ministering persons, a large number of them women.

This entire passage has been held by some to confirm that all leaders and authorities in the Early Church were intended to be, and indeed were, males. It is true that the passage deals primarily with male leadership, most likely because of majority practice and expectations. When there were women leaders, like Phoebe, they would be expected to meet the same standards of character and behavior.

Translations of verse 11 present evidence of the translator's choice based on personal expectations. The word gunaikas can be translated as either "wives" or "women", depending on the translator's assumptions concerning the context. One rendering leaves the impression that these are qualifications for deacons' wives; the other suggests this exhortation is addressed to female spiritual leaders.

Although the first-century cultural milieu produced a primarily male church leadership, this passage along with other biblical evidence of female spiritual leadership (e.g., Acts 21:9; Romans 16:1-15 ; Philippians 4:2,3) demonstrates that female leadership was not prohibited, either for Paul's day or for today. Passages which imply that most leaders were male should not be made to say that women cannot be leaders.

Galatians 3:28

Those who oppose allowing women to hold positions of spiritual leadership must place contextual limitations on Galatians 3:28. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
You have taken Galations 3:28 out of context , I suggest you read the whole book or at least the chapter. Paul is referring to Salvation and that the Gospel does not discriminate. You are misusing this verseand the way you are using it validates same sex marriages for believers.
Not one of those scriptures that you listed indicates that any of them were ELDERS, and as far as picking and choosing scripture well why hasnt anyone who supports women leadership in the body of CHRIST addressed
1TIMOTHY CHAPTER 3 ? I have listed time and again on the threads to do with this subject and no one has even attempted to explain, including yourself. are you avoiding it. I love truth, but I don't like leaven in it! There is a big difference between old testiment Jewish government and new testiment Body of Christ. If you want to follow the shaddow of Christ thats up to you, but I choose to Follow Christ himself.
Colossians 2:16-19
16*So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17*For these rules were only shadows of the real thing, Christ himself. 18*Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on self-denial. And don’t let anyone say you must worship angels, even though they say they have had visions about this. These people claim to be so humble, but their sinful minds have made them proud. 19*But they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body.
Now if you will read this and 1timothy 3 and you still want to discuss this then discuss it with the Lord, because I don't think you can recieve anything from me .
 
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Coconut said:
Men - either stand up - or shut up ! :shade:

A lot of controversy could be avoided if more people
understood God`s intended definition of the 'ministry'
A womans place is not in a position of leadership.
A mans is`nt either if he does`nt know what it means
to minister to the people of God.
Thank you Coconut. lol
 
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Soldier, you named several old and new testament women serving God in different roles, but you didn`t name one appointed by God to a role of leadership.

I am editing this to define what I meant by "leadership", that being
"any capacity which puts women in authority over men", and to clarify I was not intending to question a woman serving in the many areas in which God chooses to use them, supported by the history of the ages.

I have`nt studied this subject in depth many of you may have, but
what does this scripture mean? Not trying to take it out of context, but is it only talking about her place in prayer? :confused:
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

Going back to the OT, and the vision of Isaiah where God speaks of "taking away" His blessing we read:
Isa 3:12 [As for] my people, children [are] their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

I don`t see a passage anywhere indicates that any women were appointed to be leaders of men, as defined. If there is please show me.
 
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