Why I think Jesus didn't write the bible

[Lost]

Sorry to start a thread so early in my return but I'm kind of burstin to talk about this

Theres an enormous amount of hostile criticism of the bible and the obvious differences between some of the things that are stated there and later scientific discovery. Like the creation of earth and the universe. The bible was started 80 years after Jesus died and finished I think a couple of hundred years ago in Europe. All those people who contributed were just people and as fallible as we are, that fallability is the source of inacuracy. In the bible the love of jesus comes through all that fallibility and forgives it. This is an emotional message that clicks in your mind and you see the bigger picture. This is why I think although he could read and write and was surrounded by scribes he never wrote anything, only spoke. and why I think quoting extracts from the bible to people who aren't Christians is pointless, what they want to see is how we express the love of jesus ourselves through the way we live our own lives.

 

[Chad]

Sorry to start a thread so early in my return but I'm kind of burstin to talk about this

Theres an enormous amount of hostile criticism of the bible and the obvious differences between some of the things that are stated there and later scientific discovery. Like the creation of earth and the universe. The bible was started 80 years after Jesus died and finished I think a couple of hundred years ago in Europe. All those people who contributed were just people and as fallible as we are, that fallability is the source of inacuracy. In the bible the love of jesus comes through all that fallibility and forgives it. This is an emotional message that clicks in your mind and you see the bigger picture. This is why I think although he could read and write and was surrounded by scribes he never wrote anything, only spoke. and why I think quoting extracts from the bible to people who aren't Christians is pointless, what they want to see is how we express the love of jesus ourselves through the way we live our own lives.

"The bible was started 80 years after Jesus died"

Wrong. Read this:
Is the Bible truly God's Word?
How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?

"All those people who contributed were just people and as fallible as we are, that fallability is the source of inacuracy"

Wrong. They were inspired by the Holy Spirit and guided by Him.

"why I think quoting extracts from the bible to people who aren't Christians is pointless"

Wrong again. That's like telling me (for example) that all those who came to Christ by GOD's grace through my preaching the Word (Bible) to them was pointless. Try telling the same to all the pastors worldwide that their efforts were pointless. Then explain how all (or ANY) person is saved by accepting Jesus after hearing His Word.

" Theres an enormous amount of hostile criticism of the bible "

Show me where. If your going to claim anything, prove it. Don't expect to believed by any wise man without proving something.

You need to get your facts straight and respect the Word for what it really is, not what your limited and distorted understanding is.

I won't bother asking you where you got your sources from.

Do some proper research.

Here:

http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-prophecy-facts/20042-amazing-book-new-post.html

http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-prophecy-facts/15453-365-messianic-prophecies.html

And read any thread here in this forum:
Evidence, Prophecy, Facts - Talk Jesus

Try disputing these.

 

[Property Of God]

Wow, Chad is very right! do your homework please before judging a religion that lasted so strong and changed so many lives until year 2008.

Chad, hats off to you!:thumbs_up

 

[Michael19]

Thanks for setting that straight Chad. I'm glad you knew where to look to find the answers, cause I didn't.

God Bless

 

[Lost]

Chad the tone of your reply seems very adversarial and is an emotional space that puts people off christianity as if it is something to bicker over, I'm talking to you as a friend with the trust of my whole life experience as my source and I'm approaching the whole question with love not as an adversary. The question I'm attempting to answer is why didn't Jesus ever write anything when it would seem the most obvious thing for him to do.

The article you quoted says the Bible took 1500 years to write which is pretty similar to the other articles I've read. When the early church was forming there were lots of different view points before the church settled and developed and later split into different denominations. Through all those different interpretations and translations and viewpoints through history, the central emotion that comes through and survives all that is love, and thats against a background of human nature which is for survival.

Perhaps a good way to explain it is, If there is a very old song that makes you feel great every time you hear it, it speaks to your heart, It could have been written hundreds of years ago, you can examine it in detail note for note and lots of people can play it in many different ways and change it slightly but through all that it's basically the same song and it still speaks to your heart.

All the people who wrote in the bible were inspired by gods love but few people today are going to seriously accept the old testament claim that the earth was made in 7 days or that Jesus turned water into wine and fed 5000 people by magic. Don't you think what happened was that Jesus moved all the people that had food, to share it with those that had none. For me I read the symbolic account and The message of love comes through and then you kind of know what would have been written had that event happened today.

Jesus was well educated and would have known that history can only be interpreted and our understanding of it is constantly changing as new archeological evidence contrasts with peoples written accounts. so I think he knew that no matter how the stories changed over the centuries, like the old song the whole thing would still speak to your heart. So thats what I think the answer is Has anyone any thoughts about why Jesus never left any writing when he easily could have done. I know I probably have a different interpretation to most people here but I'm not asking this as an adversary and I extend love to all those who reply, I just find it a fascinating question.

 

[Chad]

GOD does what He wills to do, now what man expects of Him to do. He works in mysterious ways, but that does not mean we can sit back and second guess what this or that piece of Scripture meant.

GOD is Spirit = Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Author of the Bible. Whether or not Jesus "wrote" (literal or by inspiration to His followers) is absolutely irrelevant. Why? Because you have to go by facts. The fact is, the Holy Spirit is the Author of the Bible and He used those writers of those times as a hand tool. They were believers as well.

The Bible is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow. As for your claims (yet, still without providing any proof at all) any modern day evidence does not change in any way, the Word itself. Jesus is the Word. You cannot modify the truth, you cannot guess it, you cannot claim anything you wish to claim whatsoever.

Hebrews 13:8, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

Chad the tone of your reply seems very adversarial and is an emotional space that puts people off christianity as if it is something to bicker over

You got that all wrong. I would start off by looking at your own posts first before making any comments about my tone to defend yourself.

First, you provided no proof of your many claims in your original post.

Second, you responded and still provided no proof again, making even more claims.

Third, you claimed this and that about GOD and His Word that were completely false. You did no proper research. Had you done proper research before claiming anything about GOD and His Word, this thread would not be in the first place. So, the conclusion here of my point is respect GOD's Word before making any claims about it, and blaming others for their tone. You cannot read my heart, so you should not guess what my tone is like. You already made that mistake by assuming things about the Bible that are not true.

Jesus was well educated and would have known that history can only be interpreted and our understanding of it is constantly changing as new archeological evidence contrasts with peoples written accounts.

Sure, educated? He was GOD incarnate. The word educated cannot sum up His wisdom and knowledge. He *is* wisdom and has knowledge that cannot be measured.

Basically, looking at your points here all I can see is that you have a desperate need to do some studying of your own before believing in any other source. GOD is the real source of ANY understanding of His Word. After all, He wrote it. So to go off saying "new archaeological evidence contrasts with peoples written accounts" is basically another false teaching.

 

[Faithful Son]

It's fair to have questions, but if I'll say this plainly, if you had the faith required to believe in Jesus you would care less what He wrote down, you would much rather wait each day in awe for Him to write His message on your heart. Jesus wasn't educated, where did you read that? He was as simple as can be, with not one qualification to his name, He didn't study, He wasn't a teacher like the scribes and pharisees, He didn't teach people how to make money or how to successfully win the lottery, He was God and His message was faith in Him and repentance of sin, that's it.

He died on the cross so that the world could be forgiven, He was and still is the purest sacrifice ever, He does not care about status or fame and all authority belong to Him, He lives in me and if you believe in Him then He lives in you.

I talk to Him each day, with my mouth, in my mind, my thoughts and heart and He always answers, because He said "my sheep will know my voice"

God bless

 

[Lost]

Faithful son the message i get is that god doesn't want people to be in awe but be a freind without fear. I don't have to be amazed by writings of miracles, My friends don't have to impress me to gain my freindship and niether does God. and your right, there is no need to study scripture once you get the message, because it's so simple.

Chad your basing everything you say on sources that are written historical accounts and those are always open to interpretation, even in the Bible, I think the love of god can only be proven to others by our actions and the way we live our lives and we should be secure enough in our faith to sometimes examine the why's of Jesus life amiably and with good humour.

It's recorded in the Bible that jesus read from the book of Isaiah [edit: no links without permission and 50 posts, read the rules] if he could read he could write and he certainly knew people who could. If that account is correct then the question of why he never wrote anything is valid. A book of Jesus would be the word straight from the son of god. Faith is an emotional experience not a strictly logical one, I think he wanted us to live christianity for ourselves rather than dissect his message and constantly refer to it so closely for guidance, a bit like hearing that beautiful song and being inspired to write one of our own. Again these are my conclusions based on my nearly 50 years of life experience. I think we've learned the message from the Bible so we should know it and be able to use it to think for ourselves and be philosophically creative because quite simply this intellectual ability is a gift that was given to us from God.

 

[Chad]

Faithful son the message i get is that god doesn't want people to be in awe but be a freind without fear. I don't have to be amazed by writings of miracles, My friends don't have to impress me to gain my freindship and niether does God. and your right, there is no need to study scripture once you get the message, because it's so simple.

Chad your basing everything you say on sources that are written historical accounts and those are always open to interpretation, even in the Bible, I think the love of god can only be proven to others by our actions and the way we live our lives and we should be secure enough in our faith to sometimes examine the why's of Jesus life amiably and with good humour.

It's recorded in the Bible that jesus read from the book of Isaiah [edit: no links without permission and 50 posts, read the rules] if he could read he could write and he certainly knew people who could. If that account is correct then the question of why he never wrote anything is valid. A book of Jesus would be the word straight from the son of god. Faith is an emotional experience not a strictly logical one, I think he wanted us to live christianity for ourselves rather than dissect his message and constantly refer to it so closely for guidance, a bit like hearing that beautiful song and being inspired to write one of our own. Again these are my conclusions based on my nearly 50 years of life experience. I think we've learned the message from the Bible so we should know it and be able to use it to think for ourselves and be philosophically creative because quite simply this intellectual ability is a gift that was given to us from God.

First, let me say that you should respect GOD by properly capitalizing His name. Its respect and reverence. Second, read the forum rules. No links without permission, which I've deleted it.

Chad your basing everything you say on sources that are written historical accounts and those are always open to interpretation, even in the Bible, I think the love of god can only be proven to others by our actions and the way we live our lives and we should be secure enough in our faith to sometimes examine the why's of Jesus life amiably and with good humour.

I will tell you what I base my facts on. The Holy Bible is based on truth based on what the Holy Spirit reveals to His believers, those who believe as Jesus the Son of GOD and Savior. Those who believe as the Bible as the Holy Bible, infallible Word of GOD. Those who use common sense by researching before claiming anything based on external sources that oppose GOD or do not follow Him humbly, instead air their own opinions.

Proverbs 18:2
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding,but only in expressing his opinion.

Starting off your post by stating the Bible was written 80 years after Jesus (not "jesus") was born threw off any validity of your understanding of GOD and His Word.

Its for your own sake to respect His Word and do your proper research. If you love GOD, you will seek Him in prayer humbly.

we should be secure enough in our faith to sometimes examine the why's of Jesus life amiably and with good humour.

And what part of Jesus' life was humorous to you? I don't think GOD lowering Himself to human nature to save us and go through all that spiritual and physical pain is humorous whatsoever. Maybe your ill minded to think so, but I do not at all. He knew all His life, the full 33 years what was coming to Him, because He chose that task - to SAVE us.

Faith is an emotional experience not a strictly logical one

Let's stick with what GOD has to say about it, through is chosen follower.

Hebrews 11:1
1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of^(A) things not seen. 2For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3By faith we understand that the universe was created by^(B) the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of^(C) things that are visible.

the question of why he never wrote anything is valid.

And exactly by what authority do you support this claim that its a valid question? What is valid about it? By what wisdom/knowledge do you get this from? GOD does what He chooses to do. Who are you to question His ways?

Here's a question for you: does Jesus not writing the Bible directly (aside from HIS Holy Spirit as the Author) invalidating the Bible itself? Absolutely not is the answer.

Isaiah 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,so are my wayshigher than your waysand my thoughts than your thoughts.

Romans 9:20-22

20But who are you, O man,^(A) to answer back to God?^(B) Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21^(C) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump^(D) one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience^(E) vessels of wrath^(F) prepared for destruction,

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart,and do not lean on your own understanding.

Continue reading the threads in the Evidence & Prophecy forum I linked to you earlier. You'll understand better the validity of the Bible, and what you should or should not do once you actually study the Bible and pray for wisdom.

 

[Chad]

By the way, the site you linked to (which I removed) is nothing but a pile of junk without any divine wisdom from GOD.

To quote the homepage:

Critical Comparative Studies Of:
Christian Faith (Ecclesiastical, based upon the Canons and Alternative, based on Excavated Documents)
Islam Beliefs (Universal & Definitive, based on the Qur'an and Unsecured, based upon Sectarian Traditions)
Ismailism (An Orthodoxy, preached by Late Aga Khan and Emerging, alluded slowly by the Living Aga Khan)
Rashad Khalifa & Submitters (Mathematical Code of Number 19 in Qur'an and Defending of the Errors)
Jehovah's Witnesses (Imminent Re-arrival of Jesus with dates claimed and Earlier Predictions postponed)

Critical Brief Observations Of:
Buddhist System of Life, Ram of Ramayana,
Baha'i Faith, Atheism

To quote the exact page you linked to:

May Allah Guide All to The Eternal Truth

Nothing but garbage. Islamic "wisdom" it seems. I see where your views come from, and it is not from GOD at all. Its coming from man's own worldly wisdom, inspired by the devil, not the Holy Spirit.

And to quote the Bible

John 16:13
13When^(A) the Spirit of truth comes,^(B) he will^(C) guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but^(D) whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Let me make it clear to you this forum is not to preach your own understanding or any other belief but what is shown in the Holy Bible. If that is your motive, expect to be banned from the site. You come here with an open heart to learn about Jesus or you leave respecting others beliefs - the truth. But do not come here quoting garbage from "critical studies of..." sites that quote islamic non-sense or anything that is opposed to the Holy Bible. They have no personal relationship with Jesus so they have no understanding of the Word at all.

Name one "religion" aside Christianity that has a Savior, a personal Savior who loves you and saves you from your own sins. Oh, and one that has actual evidence of miracles (which you already opposed in your previous posts). Name one that has a Savior who is ALIVE today and did not rot in the dirt like your other "humorous" religious prophets. You know, budhha, mohammed, blahblah, eggroll, shishkabob, etc.

Enjoy the humor

 

[Lost]

Chad that was just a link I found from an Isaiah google search, I'm afraid I found your last post insulting. But you have the power here and I think I'm not going to get the kind of considerate debate I'd hoped for.


Love Jake

 

[Chad]

Chad that was just a link I found from an Isaiah google search, I'm afraid I found your last post insulting. But you have the power here and I think I'm not going to get the kind of considerate debate I'd hoped for.


Love Jake

Nothing I said was insulting, just another cheap response to defend yourself and lack of proving any points. I proved a bundle of points which you cannot refute.

Again, you did not do your research and this post of yours admitting "just a link from google search" proves my point again that you do not research carefully at all.

You just fell on some search result and quoted it here. Then you turn around telling me I was insulting.

Your rejection of Jesus and His Word is your choice, not mine. Your lack of respect to Him is your insult to Him, not me.

Case closed. Your not a true believer nor do you even care to learn about Jesus. Instead, you just "googled" something and quoted whatever you chose to believe.

If you truly cared to learn about Jesus, you would not be quoting anything you google.

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge;fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Also, this is not a debate forum. How does one "debate" the Truth from GOD, the Holy Bible? Its not debatable. You either accept the Word from GOD or you don't.

To accuse me twice of insulting you goes to show you that you do not care at all to learn. I put a lot of time and effort here responding to your preaching to help you. But you refuse it. Thats your choice.

 

[Lost]

You seem to be debating as if in a court of law where the point in question has to be proven during the discusion.

What I've sort is a creative debate, I've only posed questions and stated my ideas, those aren't conclusions or assertions, a creative debate doesn't make assertions but considers possibilities and then sometimes comes to conclusions at the end.

.

 

[Chad]

You seem to be debating as if in a court of law where the point in question has to be proven during the discusion.

What I've sort is a creative debate, I've only posed questions and stated my ideas, those aren't conclusions or assertions, a creative debate doesn't make assertions but considers possibilities and then sometimes comes to conclusions at the end.

.

Once again, answer this question per my last post.

Also, this is not a debate forum. How does one "debate" the Truth from GOD, the Holy Bible? Its not debatable. You either accept the Word from GOD or you don't.

You've already made enough posts to prove that you do not sincerely reply to learn about Jesus, only to debate and mock my own replies trying to help you.

Your soul is in great danger when you reject Jesus and His Word. GOD will not force you to listen and accept His free gift, Jesus. Neither will I.

I'm not in the court of law. But your in a complete mess with your own views here. But wherever I may be, I preach the Good News about Jesus. What's your goal in life?

 

[Maureen]

and fed 5000 people by magic. Don't you think what happened was that Jesus moved all the people that had food, to share it with those that had none.

Jake, the above is a quotation from one of your posts, now are you really serious when you say the Lord Jesus fed 5000 people by MAGIC, what's that all about, MAGIC?
He wasn't a MAGICAN.
He's God, no magic wand needed.
and to suggest the rest of the sentance, makes me think you do not BELIEVE the Bible, it is God breathed, it is the Word of God, we believe by the faith given unto us, through the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 11 v 1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

That's more than enough for me.
Why do you not?
and no, I don't think that's what happened, I believe God's own word, Jesus fed them with 5 loaves and 2 fishes. Amen

 

[Property Of God]

Honestly I think you only posted that thread cause you want us to convince you that it actually is all true,
If you honestly don't care and don't believe, who are you fighting here on TJ?
You can convice yourself of whatever you want if you put your mind into it, You wanna believe that you don't believe, but if you really don't, why are you here?
I think somehow you do believe, and you are searching for an answer that might help you take your mind off it.

Are you gonna take your chances?? How sure are you about what you are writing? 100% sure?
Are you saying that there isn't the tinest smallest chance that you can be wrong?
Even researchers who are extremly professional and experts say all of their researches are 95% true.

 

[Chad]

This is for you:

http://www.talkjesus.com/streaming-video/20066-shocking-youth-message-stuns-hearers.html#post103320

 

[Maureen]

excellent Chad, what truth.
have passed it on to Christian friends.
Thank you.

 

[Maureen]

What I can't get round my head is why Jake is so concerned about Jesus not putting pen to paper.

Is that really important, aren't his miracles enough, His speech enough, that He is God enough, enough for anyone?

Why aren't you satisfied with that?
I think that it is just one of those foolish questions that people delight in throwing out.
The Holy Spirit in dwelling in you, would not make you ask so.

 

[Chad]

Lost....I just want you to know that I'm *almost* 100% positive you did not come here with the right motives and I usually can sense that easily almost all the time. GOD gave me that gift and experience makes you wiser. However, GOD had convicted me to give you a chance and not ban you for preaching things not of Him.

Its your choice. Jesus loves you. What do you have to lose by giving Him your heart?