why do people reject jesus

blessed07 · Dec 30, 2010

why do people reject jesus as there savior.

Jaareshiah · Jan 3, 2011

blessed07 said:
why do people reject jesus as there savior.

Four of Jesus apostles asked him a composite question: "What will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”(Matt 24:3, "sign of thy coming and of the end of the world", King James Bible) In answering, Jesus laid out characteristics and attitudes that would identify his invisible "presence", during the "conclusion of the system of things", also called "the last days" at 2 Peter 3:3, 4, our time period. Amongst these was "because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off."(Matt 24:12)

Thus, the notable godly quality of love would "cool off " ("wax cold", King James Bible) because lawlessness would increase during Jesus invisible "promised presence".(2 Pet 3:4) Many would discard the evidence that Jesus stated at Matthew 24 and 25, becoming more and more full of hate. People have become more arrogant and haughty as a result, feeling no need for a ' religious savior.'

Psalms 14:1 says: "The senseless one has said in his heart: “There is no Jehovah.”("There is no God", King James Bible) They have acted ruinously, they have acted detestably in [their] dealing. There is no one doing good." Even among many that were once religious, be it Catholic, Baptist, or Methodist, these have turned away from religion, becoming either apathetic, agnostic or atheistic. Why though have these turned away from "Jesus as their savior" ?

Historian Alister McGrath explains: “What propels people toward atheism is above all a sense of revulsion against the excesses and failures of organized religion.” Religion is often seen as a factor behind wars and violence.

For example, a man named Ciarán, who grew up against the backdrop of the violence in Northern Ireland, was repulsed by the doctrine of hellfire. He used to declare that he hated any God responsible for such wickedness and challenged God, if He existed, to strike him down. Ciarán was not alone in his revulsion for such harsh church teachings. Another man, Louis, repelled by the acts of barbarity perpetrated by religious fanatics, took a more radical position: “After showing me its boring face for years, religion now revealed to me its hideous face. I became aggressively opposed to all religion.”

And during these "last days", attitudes would show their demoralizing nature, for the apostle Paul wrote that "in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power."(2 Tim 3:1-5)

Hence, the rejection of "Jesus as their savior" is becoming more and more pronounced, with many being "lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God." Those that still consider themselves nominal Christians, many of these are "having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power." Something else to give consideration is found at Revelation 16:12, whereby the religions of the world (Babylon the Great), their "waters" are seen as "drying up" during our time period.(see Rev 17:15)

jeffsi435 · Jan 3, 2011

blessed07 said:
why do people reject jesus as there savior.

Because they love the world more than they love God.

MelodyC · Jan 3, 2011

Good answer Jeff and spot on!

The Robster · Jan 4, 2011

A lot of people reject Jesus because they never heard the gospel of grace and don't know everything He accomplished at the Cross. A lot of folks just tend to hear accept Jesus or go to hell. That's not a good faith message. And many people only hear that Jesus forgave their sins and did nothing else, when the opposite is true. When people are presented a "powerless God" in this life, well why should that appeal to anyone who has problems in this life? People have hundreds of false gods to choose from that don't provide any kind of deliverance in this life. Unfortunately, much of the church is to blame for this misrepresentation of what Jesus did at the Cross. Christians who believe that Jesus only took our sins at the Cross and purchased salvation, do not know the Word well at all. The gospel of grace produces tremendous power in this life.

MelodyC · Jan 4, 2011

Actually no one goes to hell in ignorance, the Bible tells us that man is without excuse.

RO 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Oh I agree there are some who do not preach the gospel correctly but the power to save is not in the words or actions of mankind. God Saves.

JN 6:43 "Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

No one can stand before God and say I didn't know any better or say it wasn't my fault I rejected you the preacher you sent my way was not sincere.

RO 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

We can only take the gospel to people but it is obviously up to each person to accept or reject God.

Joe in Arkansas · Jan 4, 2011

MelodyC said:
We can only take the gospel to people but it is obviously up to each person to accept or reject God.

Dear MelodyC,
It does seem that it is up to each person to accept or reject Christ but that is not what scripture says.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God is our Savior and He will draw us to Christ at the time of His choosing. Until He decides to draw us to Christ, we will continue to reject Christ. That is the scriptural answer to why we see people rejecting Jesus - God has simply not drawn them to Christ yet. But in due season, God will draw them to Christ and He will "raise us up at the last day". We must have patience and wait on God to complete all that He said He would do for mankind.

John 12:32 <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

In the end, no one will reject Christ.

Phi 2:10-11 <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

All men will eventually be drawn to Christ out of love for Him and not by fear and it will be done by the power of God and to His glory. Do you believe Christ will succeed in His mission to save the world or fail in this mission? Scripture says that God is love and that love does not fail. Do you believe those scriptures?

1John 4:14 <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

1 Tim 2:4-6 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

As the scripture says, all men will someday accept Christ and find salvation in Him. The Word of God does not lie, it is merely our misunderstanding of His Word that makes us think that Christ is not really the Savior of the world. We must have patience and wait for God's plan for mankind to unfold and be competed. After all, making mankind into God's image is a long and very difficult birth process. We all must experience this painful process - God does not give us a choice in the matter. But in the end, I have every confidence that it will be worth all the pain and suffering we must endure in order to be born into the Kingdom of God.

May the Lord bless you with the knowledge of His Word,
Joe in Arkansas

kyval82 · Jan 4, 2011

blessed07 said:
why do people reject jesus as there savior.

So many people are never taught of the wonderful grace and love of our savior. it is so sad. And others, who are tought, seem to simply want to live their lives after the flesh. they do not know the Joy and peace and comfort that is our Lord.

I would love to think all will come to know HIM as their personal savior, but indeed many choose to not believe, they have many reasons and excuses, but none of those will matter. All will see HIM and all will know that HE is Lord and Savior!

Wonderful post Blessed

Joe in Arkansas · Jan 4, 2011

kyval82 said:
I would love to think all will come to know HIM as their personal savior, but indeed many choose to not believe, they have many reasons and excuses, but none of those will matter.

Why do you believe that just because they are not drawn to Christ in this age that they can't be drawn to Him in the ages to come? There are no scriptures that say God's mercy & salvation is ever limited by time or death. All that is limited is the opportunity to be in His church who are the first fruits of the harvest. Why to you not believe that Christ will not bring in the rest of the harvest of mankind?

Yes, it is true most of mankind will not be drawn to Christ in this age but that does not mean that they will never be drawn to Christ. Millions upon millions have died without having any possibility of knowing Christ. They could not have been drawn to Christ for the sole reason that they lived at a time or location that was void of any knowledge of Christ. Scripture says that "all will be drawn to Christ" and that Christ will raise them up at the last day. If these people who were not drawn to Christ in this age have no chance of being drawn to Him in the last and final age, then the scripture is untrue. Why do so many people believe that God's Word is a mere weak wish? God's Word does not return to Him void. Since scripture clearly says that "all will be drawn to Christ" and that same "all" will be "raised up", then it must happen. God does not lie but mainstream Christianity makes God out to be a liar. Where is the faith of those who profess to believe in Him? It is not there and God planned it to be that way from the beginning.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Nothing happens by chance. God controls all things - even mankind. When God chooses to give us faith, it will happen. All things come from God. That is why He can be so sure that He will save all of mankind. He is the one who does the saving. We do not get to choose whether or not we will be saved. He will cause us all to be drawn to Christ - not by force but by love. Why do so few in mainstream Christianity refuse to believe Him? The answer is that Christ has not given the mainstream churches the level of faith that is required to believe. The mainstream church does not have the faith to believe these clear scriptures:

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> 1 Tim 2:4-6 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1 Tim 4:10-11 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach.

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Acts 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> 1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Where is the faith to believe these scriptures? Though most reject Christ now, it will not always be so. All men will eventually, in due season, be drawn to Christ.

May the Lord bless you with His faith to believe,

Joe in Arkansas

MelodyC · Jan 4, 2011

Joe in Arkansas said:
Dear MelodyC,
It does seem that it is up to each person to accept or reject Christ but that is not what scripture says.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God is our Savior and He will draw us to Christ at the time of His choosing. Until He decides to draw us to Christ, we will continue to reject Christ. That is the scriptural answer to why we see people rejecting Jesus - God has simply not drawn them to Christ yet. But in due season, God will draw them to Christ and He will "raise us up at the last day". We must have patience and wait on God to complete all that He said He would do for mankind.

John 12:32  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

In the end, no one will reject Christ.

Phi 2:10-11  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

All men will eventually be drawn to Christ out of love for Him and not by fear and it will be done by the power of God and to His glory. Do you believe Christ will succeed in His mission to save the world or fail in this mission? Scripture says that God is love and that love does not fail. Do you believe those scriptures?

1John 4:14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

1 Tim 2:4-6 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

As the scripture says, all men will someday accept Christ and find salvation in Him. The Word of God does not lie, it is merely our misunderstanding of His Word that makes us think that Christ is not really the Savior of the world. We must have patience and wait for God's plan for mankind to unfold and be competed. After all, making mankind into God's image is a long and very difficult birth process. We all must experience this painful process - God does not give us a choice in the matter. But in the end, I have every confidence that it will be worth all the pain and suffering we must endure in order to be born into the Kingdom of God.

May the Lord bless you with the knowledge of His Word,
Joe in Arkansas

Joe in A., you know I agree totally with what you said. You know why? Becasue you have totally misread and misunderstood my post. I didn't write anything contrary to what you stated in your post.

Yes you think you know what I was saying BUT you have totally missed what I said.

For example we both quoted the same verse (John3:44) and I highlighted the part that said "unless the father draws a person".

You really need to read people's posts carefully rather than jumping to your own mistaken conclusions.

I forgive you but you should be more careful in reading other people's posts or at least practice asking questions to clarify what someone meant.

For those now confused by Joe's reply to my post. The Robster wrote people may not come to Chrsit by not hearing the gospel or a preacher not teaching the gospel properly. My answer is "no man will be able to stand before God in ignorace at judgment". (as per the verse from Romans). I wrote a few more things there so do go back and read the two posts one after the other so you can get what was being discussed in context (good for Bible interpretation and reading and understanding other people's posts).

The Robster · Jan 4, 2011

MelodyC said:
Joe in A., you know I agree totally with what you said. You know why? Becasue you have totally misread and misunderstood my post. I didn't write anything contrary to what you stated in your post.

Yes you think you know what I was saying BUT you have totally missed what I said.

For example we both quoted the same verse (John3:44) and I highlighted the part that said "unless the father draws a person".

You really need to read people's posts carefully rather than jumping to your own mistaken conclusions.

I forgive you but you should be more careful in reading other people's posts or at least practice asking questions to clarify what someone meant.

We have many Christians go around and turn people off to Jesus. I mean we have Christians who tell people that God makes people sick sometimes to glorify Himself and teach them things. God makes people poor for His glory. Got gets people into car accidents to refocus their attention. We have Christians saying all these kinds of things without using the exact language but they are saying it. So when people hear this sort of thing, why should they be attracted to Jesus? Why would people want to serve a God like this? This is a fundamental problem within Christianity today. We have many Christians who are unlearned and unstable in the Word and they are telling people erroneous things about God that turn people away from the Lord. That's why its always important to be careful with what you allow your ears to hear. This is a serious problem. You know why so many Christians can't receive their healing? because so many ignorant Christians tell them that they can't and they undermine their faith. The same way we have Christians undermining the faith of fellow Christians we have Christians doing the same to people in unbelief. I mean this site is riddled with Christians that don't even see God as being their deliverer IN THIS LIFE from every problem.

Joe in Arkansas · Jan 4, 2011

MelodyC said:
Joe in A., you know I agree totally with what you said. You know why? Becasue you have totally misread and misunderstood my post. I didn't write anything contrary to what you stated in your post.

Dear MelodyC,
I apologize for misunderstanding your post. I thought you were saying that God was going to send people to hell regardless of whether they have heard the gospel from someone or not - that they are without excuse. Please let me ask you a direct question so that I do not misunderstand you a second time. Do you believe that Christ is actually going to save all of mankind and that no one will be eternally lost?

The scriptures that I posted above say that Christ is the Savior of the world but most people believe it is not true - that it is merely only a weak desire of God to save all men. They believe that man's will to reject Him is far greater than His power to save them. Most Christians believe that Christ will actually burn people in fire for all eternity (doctrine of hell) for no redeeming purpose. Even the worst monsters in human history (Hitler, Stalin, etc) don't come close to that kind of never ending evil. If the doctrine of hell were true, why would anyone want to worship a god that evil? Surely a god who is "love" would never hate someone so much so as to eternally torture someone in fire. Christ teaches us to love our enemies and to do good to them that persecute us. If the doctrine of hell were true, those scriptures would be lies. I hope you agree with me.

Joe in Arkansas

Joe in Arkansas · Jan 4, 2011

The Robster said:
We have many Christians go around and turn people off to Jesus. I mean we have Christians who tell people that God makes people sick sometimes to glorify Himself and teach them things. God makes people poor for His glory. Got gets people into car accidents to refocus their attention. We have Christians saying all these kinds of things without using the exact language but they are saying it. So when people hear this sort of thing, why should they be attracted to Jesus? Why would people want to serve a God like this? This is a fundamental problem within Christianity today. We have many Christians who are unlearned and unstable in the Word and they are telling people erroneous things about God that turn people away from the Lord. That's why its always important to be careful with what you allow your ears to hear. This is a serious problem. You know why so many Christians can't receive their healing? because so many ignorant Christians tell them that they can't and they undermine their faith. The same way we have Christians undermining the faith of fellow Christians we have Christians doing the same to people in unbelief. I mean this site is riddled with Christians that don't even see God as being their deliverer IN THIS LIFE from every problem.

Dear Robster,
Scripture clearly teaches that if we follow Christ we will suffer greatly in this life. We must pick up our cross and follow him. It is a very painful path that we follow. Did you know that Christ himself was physically diseased and that the Father would not heal Him. If we follow Christ, should we expect any better treatment? But we gladly follow Christ out of love regardless of the pain in this life that we must endure. Life is hard but following Christ makes it harder, not more pleasant.

Scripture also teaches that it is God who creates evil and is responsible for it. God is the cause behind all things. To deny this truth of scripture implies that the creation of God is out of His control. Of course, God is in complete control and nothing (good or evil) happens in this world without God being the cause behind it.

Joe in Arkansas

MelodyC · Jan 4, 2011

Joe in Arkansas said:
Dear MelodyC,
I apologize for misunderstanding your post. I thought you were saying that God was going to send people to hell regardless of whether they have heard the gospel from someone or not - that they are without excuse. Please let me ask you a direct question so that I do not misunderstand you a second time. Do you believe that Christ is actually going to save all of mankind and that no one will be eternally lost?

The scriptures that I posted above say that Christ is the Savior of the world but most people believe it is not true - that it is merely only a weak desire of God to save all men. They believe that man's will to reject Him is far greater than His power to save them. Most Christians believe that Christ will actually burn people in fire for all eternity (doctrine of hell) for no redeeming purpose. Even the worst monsters in human history (Hitler, Stalin, etc) don't come close to that kind of never ending evil. If the doctrine of hell were true, why would anyone want to worship a god that evil? Surely a god who is "love" would never hate someone so much so as to eternally torture someone in fire. Christ teaches us to love our enemies and to do good to them that persecute us. If the doctrine of hell were true, those scriptures would be lies. I hope you agree with me.

Joe in Arkansas

In answer to your question I highlighted - Absolutely not. There will be many who will reject Christ directly.

What I was saying that in Romans it says God makes sure no one will come to judgement before Him in ignorance. They will have NO Excuse before Him.

RO 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

RO 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

It also says in the following verse the gospel is to be preached to all nations so that it will be a testimony to them. Not all that hear the will be saved. Below the Bible even states for many their love will grow cold.

MT 24:9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Now Joe A., please answer me this. Do you believe that anyone will actually go to Eternal Torment along with Satan and the fallen Angels.

MT 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

MT 25:44 "They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

MT 25:45 "He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

MT 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

MT 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

If you do not believe anyone is going to Eternal Punishment. Please explain briefly why?

Joe in Arkansas · Jan 5, 2011

MelodyC said:
Now Joe A., please answer me this. Do you believe that anyone will actually go to Eternal Torment along with Satan and the fallen Angels.

If you do not believe anyone is going to Eternal Punishment. Please explain briefly why?

Dear MelodyC,
I will try to be brief but there really is no way to explain God's plan of salvation "briefly" because it is a long and complex process. I'm sure what I am about to say below will only leave you will questions & misunderstandings but I will try the best of my ability to explain what I have been shown in scripture to be the truth.

There is no such thing as "eternal" torment or punishment. The Greek word that is commonly translated to mean "eternal" or "everlasting" should not be translated that way. At the time the scriptures were written, there was no Greek word that meant eternal or everlasting. That definition was later added to accommodate the man-made doctrine of hell. Judgment is only for a "age". The "Lake of Fire" in Revelation is merely a symbol for God's judgment during the final age. It is not a place of literal fire that tortures people for all eternity. All mankind must be judged to teach us to stop sinning. Judgment is currently upon those whom God has chosen to be in His church - those who will be the leaders (priests and kings) and will reign with Christ over those who are yet still lost during the next two ages.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> 1Peter 4:17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Judgment is a necessary part of our salvation. Christ's judgment will correct, refine and purify us so that we will stop sinning. In effect, we will learn righteousness from Christ's judgments.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Christ paid the penalty of death for mankind's sins at the cross but that act by itself does not stop us from continuing in sin. The process of judgment is what stops us from sinning. And make no mistake about it, judgment is a long process that each person must partake of. Christ's church first and then all the rest of mankind in the final and great age which will bring in the full harvest of mankind. Please don't misunderstand though, the judgment of the lost in the age to come will be in "wrath" and will be "tormenting" but it will still accomplish the intended purpose of God and that is to bring them into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Christ loves all His creation and He will do as He said in Gen 1:23 (to make man in His image). However, being born into a son of God is a long and painful process but it is the way God has chosen to do it. We have no say in the matter - it is by the will of God that He will save all mankind, not by our will. God's Word never returns to Him void.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> John 1:12–13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> 1 Tim 2:4-6 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all,to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> 1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

God desires to save all mankind (all the world, not just a tiny fraction of it) and to make us into His image - the scriptures above clearly say so. No man can stop Him from accomplishing what He as said He will do. It is utter foolishness to elevate man to be able to resist God's will. His will is to save the "first fruits" of the harvest now and use them in the final age to bring in the great and final harvest of mankind. If you study the 3 feasts of the Jewish harvest, you may be able to see the type & shadow of God's harvest of mankind.

I am confident what I have said above will not convince you of anything. If you truly have an interest in learning the truth of God's plan to make man into His image, Christ must first give you a "love for the truth" and place that quest of finding His truth above all the things in this world (including those things you have been taught in "church"). God has hidden His truth and it is only He who decides whom to reveal it to. If He chooses you find it, it will be to you as finding great treasure.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Prov 2:1-5 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Joe in Arkansas

Brighthouse · Jan 5, 2011

Well Joe I had to think and pray, and think and pray before writing this,because at first I was so angry how you twisted the Word out of content,so without getting angry,and without saying any un kind words, I will say this. 2 Peter 2:4-9 if this scripture all by itself, does not correct, the lie that you have chosen to believe,I guess nothing will.

Joe in Arkansas · Jan 5, 2011

Brighthouse said:
Well Joe I had to think and pray, and think and pray before writing this,because at first I was so angry how you twisted the Word out of content,so without getting angry,and without saying any un kind words, I will say this. 2 Peter 2:4-9 if this scripture all by itself, does not correct, the lie that you have chosen to believe,I guess nothing will.

Dear Brighthouse,

Can you please explain how I have twisted God's Word out of context?

The verses that I quoted that clearly teach that Christ loves all mankind and will save all mankind are true and are in complete agreement with the rest of scripture. God's Word does not contradict itself. Why does it make you "angry" upon hearing that God can and will save all of mankind? The verse you quoted in Peter does not change the fact that Christ is the Savior of the world.

2Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Those people that were destroyed in Sodom & Gomorrha are not eternally lost. Have you not ever read this verse:

Matt 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Eze 16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

This section of scripture in Ezekiel is condemning the nation of Israel and comparing them with Sodom. God says that Israel's punishment will be greater than that of Sodom's and that Sodom will be restored before Israel will be restored. This is in line with this scripture concerning the pharisees:

Matt 21:31 <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Which of the two was obeying his father?" They replied, "The first, of course." Then Jesus explained his meaning: "I assure you, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do.

Even the Pharisees who crucified Christ will enter the Kingdom of God at some point but they will be last to enter. They will be saved after the "fullness of the gentiles" which includes Sodom and Gomorrha. When Christ addressed the Pharisees in the above verse, it was never a question as to whether or not they would be saved someday but only the timing of their salvation.

Matt 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

The gentiles will be saved first, then all of Israel will be saved. Israel was the first to be given the offer of salvation but they rejected it. Therefore, Christ says that because you have rejected me, you will now be last to enter the Kingdom of God instead of first.

Rom 11:25-27 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

All mankind will be saved but not at the same time. Every man in his own order.

1 Cor 15:20-28 <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

All mankind has died in Adam and likewise, all mankind will be made alive in Christ. When will this happen? At the coming of Christ in each persons life but "everyman in his own order". Christ will not come to 99%+ of mankind in this physical life now. Christ only comes to His "first fruits" now. Christ will come to all the rest in an age to come. At that time, all the gentiles will be brought in first and then finally, the nation of Israel.

Why does this anger you? Don't you want Christ to succeed in His mission to save the world?

1John 4:14 <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

God is not limited or as weak as you make Him out to be with your teaching of Him failing to save the world. He can and will have all His desires. And He desires and wills to save the world.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> 1 Tim 2:4-6 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time.

Acts 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Col 1:16-20 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile ALL THINGS unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Just what part does "all things" leave out?

I hope I have not angered you further with proclaiming the GOOD NEWS of Jesus Christ. What kind of "Good news" would it be if 99%+ of mankind is going to be eternally punished in fire? Scripture says that the penalty of sin is death but the doctrine of hell makes that penalty to be eternal torture in fire - not death but a never ending life of torture! Can you ever imagine anything worse? The doctrine of hell has no part with Christ. Christ loves His enemies and does good to them who persecute Him. How is the doctrine of hell good for anyone? It would be a living nightmare for most of mankind if it were true. Thank God that it isn't true and that our God and Creator has never ending mercy and love. The doctrine of hell teaches that God's love and mercy does end and that Christ actually does hate His enemies instead of loving them. The God of the doctrine of hell is "another Jesus" and not the Jesus of scripture.

Joe in Arkansas

MelodyC · Jan 5, 2011

Joe in Arkansas said:
Dear MelodyC,
I will try to be brief but there really is no way to explain God's plan of salvation "briefly" because it is a long and complex process. I'm sure what I am about to say below will only leave you will questions & misunderstandings but I will try the best of my ability to explain what I have been shown in scripture to be the truth.

There is no such thing as "eternal" torment or punishment. The Greek word that is commonly translated to mean "eternal" or "everlasting" should not be translated that way. At the time the scriptures were written, there was no Greek word that meant eternal or everlasting. That definition was later added to accommodate the man-made doctrine of hell. Judgment is only for a "age". The "Lake of Fire" in Revelation is merely a symbol for God's judgment during the final age. It is not a place of literal fire that tortures people for all eternity. All mankind must be judged to teach us to stop sinning. Judgment is currently upon those whom God has chosen to be in His church - those who will be the leaders (priests and kings) and will reign with Christ over those who are yet still lost during the next two ages.

 Judgment is a necessary part of our salvation. Christ's judgment will correct, refine and purify us so that we will stop sinning. In effect, we will learn righteousness from Christ's judgments.

 Christ paid the penalty of death for mankind's sins at the cross but that act by itself does not stop us from continuing in sin. The process of judgment is what stops us from sinning. And make no mistake about it, judgment is a long process that each person must partake of. Christ's church first and then all the rest of mankind in the final and great age which will bring in the full harvest of mankind. Please don't misunderstand though, the judgment of the lost in the age to come will be in "wrath" and will be "tormenting" but it will still accomplish the intended purpose of God and that is to bring them into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Christ loves all His creation and He will do as He said in Gen 1:23 (to make man in His image). However, being born into a son of God is a long and painful process but it is the way God has chosen to do it. We have no say in the matter - it is by the will of God that He will save all mankind, not by our will. God's Word never returns to Him void.

 God desires to save all mankind (all the world, not just a tiny fraction of it) and to make us into His image - the scriptures above clearly say so. No man can stop Him from accomplishing what He as said He will do. It is utter foolishness to elevate man to be able to resist God's will. His will is to save the "first fruits" of the harvest now and use them in the final age to bring in the great and final harvest of mankind. If you study the 3 feasts of the Jewish harvest, you may be able to see the type & shadow of God's harvest of mankind.

I am confident what I have said above will not convince you of anything. If you truly have an interest in learning the truth of God's plan to make man into His image, Christ must first give you a "love for the truth" and place that quest of finding His truth above all the things in this world (including those things you have been taught in "church"). God has hidden His truth and it is only He who decides whom to reveal it to. If He chooses you find it, it will be to you as finding great treasure.

Joe in Arkansas

I thought so. No destruction of people in Eternal Punishment and denial of Hell.

This is not directed to you Joe A but to others on this Board.

People there have been False Teachers come among us to lead us away from what the Word of God teaches. This is one of the many heresies you will come across today that is gaining popularity. Please do not just accept it but go back and read your Bibles.

English is not my first language and I am aware how noivces trying to go back and do their own translating without knowing both languages very well can get it wrong. First of all the New Testament is not entirely written in Ancient Greek but also in Aramic.

The denial of an Ancient Greek Word for everlasting is incorrect. There is an Ancient Greek word for everlasting or forever. Do you know the sign for infinity? Where do we get that from? Ancient Greek. So don't swallow the lie to believe there is no Ancient Greek Word that has the definition of "forever', "everlasting" or "infinite". The Ancient Greeks do have Word for immortality. Have you ever heard or read about the Ancient Greek gods like Zeus or Jupiter, they have written accounts of their immortal gods. So there has to be words that mean 'everlasting' or at least 'living forever".

It is obvious that there are words in Ancient GREEK that have the meaning "forever" or "everlasting" or they could not have the maths concept of infinity or the Ancient gods being immortal. Think about it. The calim has to be false.

It is clear in the following few scriptures there will be people who will end up with the same fate as the Devil. Jesus says that there will be an Eternal punishment for the Devil and some people who will join them. You cannot deny scripture.

MT 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

MT 25:44 "They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

MT 25:45 "He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

MT 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

If we reject what the scripture says here we are basically calling Jesus a liar and we know that God does not lie.

Here is more scripture that confirms manking who go into the place reserved for the devil will remain there with him forever.

REV 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

There will be no escape, no reprieve and no relief from the pusnishment of those who go into the Eternal Fire.

Here is a good article explaining further why this theology is wrong for anyone who is interested in making sure they know God's truth.

Evangelicals and the Annihilation of Hell

Evangelicals and the Annihilation of Hell
<small>Part One</small>

by Alan W. Gomes
And now, who is responsible for this God-dishonoring doctrine? And what is his purpose? The promulgator of it is Satan himself; and his purpose in introducing it has been to frighten the people away from studying the Bible and to make them hate God.
— Joseph Franklin Rutherford, Watchtower Society's Second President <sup>[1]</sup>
How can Christians possibly project a deity of such cruelty and vindictiveness whose ways include inflicting everlasting torture upon his creatures, however sinful they may have been? Surely a God who would do such a thing is more nearly like Satan than like God, at least by any ordinary moral standards, and by the gospel itself.
— Clark Pinnock, Professor and Noted Evangelical Author <sup>[2]</sup>

Christians through the centuries have affirmed that those who do not accept God's offer of salvation in Christ will suffer conscious, everlasting torment. Denial of this teaching has, until recently, been limited almost exclusively to cultic or quasi-cultic groups. For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses vociferously reject the orthodox teaching on hell, denouncing it as an error of apostate Christendom. They teach that the wicked will be "annihilated" rather than suffer eternal torment. Likewise, Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God, Christian Science, Mormonism, and the New Age movement all repudiate the orthodox doctrine. Besides these undeniably cultic groups, the Seventh-day Adventists also reject the historic doctrine in favor of annihilation. <sup>[3]</sup> While Seventh-day Adventism may not be a cult in the technical theological sense of the term I am using here, <sup>[4]</sup> they nonetheless have been perceived commonly as a "fringe" group by orthodox Christians. <sup>[5]</sup>
Alternative, unorthodox views concerning the final state of the wicked are no longer limited to the fringe. Today, individuals who have been regarded as solidly within the evangelical camp are abandoning the doctrine of conscious, eternal punishment in favor of various "annihilation" scenarios.

{Please go to the link for the rest of this article and part 2 of this teaching.}

Joe A

We have different interpretations of God's Word. That is totally clear to me now. I'm sorry you have been fooled to think there can be no Word in Ancient Greek that means forever especially when I can demonstrate to you TWO well known examples where school children can even relate to that indicates the Ancient Greeks must have had words that relayed that meaning (infinity and immortality of their ancient gods like Zues). Maybe you might like to re-think what you have chosen to believe?

As for your denial of a place of Eternal Punishment it shows that you have decided Jesus was lying when he spoke of the fact there would be a place of Eternal Punishment.

You obviously pick and choose what scriptures you think are true and which are not.

The whole Bible is the very Word of God. All of it given to us through the Holy Spirit.

I cannot convince you that you are treading on shakey ground. Only the Lord Himself can point you to His Truth and help you receive it.

I am assuming by your denial of Hell that you could probably be a Seventh Day Adventist. It doesn't matter if you are or are not. I am concerned you do not accept all of the Bible as True.

Joe in Arkansas · Jan 5, 2011

MelodyC said:
Joe A

We have different interpretations of God's Word. That is totally clear to me now. I'm sorry you have been fooled to think there can be no Word in Ancient Greek that means forever especially when I can demonstrate to you TWO well known examples where school children can even relate to that indicates the Ancient Greeks must have had words that relayed that meaning (infinity and immortality of their ancient gods like Zues). Maybe you might like to re-think what you have chosen to believe?

As for your denial of a place of Eternal Punishment it shows that you have decided Jesus was lying when he spoke of the fact there would be a place of Eternal Punishment.

You obviously pick and choose what scriptures you think are true and which one are not. The whole Bible is the very Word of God. All of it given to us through the Holy Spirit.

I cannot convince you that you are treading on shakey ground. Only the Lord Himself can point you to His Truth and help you receive it.

I am assuming by your denial of Hell that you could probably be a Seventh Day Adventist. It doesn't matter if you are or are not. I am concerned you do not accept all of the Bible as True.

Dear MelodyC,
I am not affiliated with any church or denomination though I do know a few like-minded believers here in the U.S and in the U.K. I had been the mainstream church for over forty years when one day in October 2005 the Lord healed my spiritual blindness. From that day forward the scriptures opened up to me. It turned my life upside down and I was rejected by the church I was a member of. I call myself a "called out believer" as per this verse:

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Comeout of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins , and that ye receive not of her plagues.

The "her" in the above verse is the harlot church system that is in the world today. It started even before Paul had died. There is no truth found in the churches today. It has all been changed to the doctrines of men. Until Christ comes to a "called believer" a second time and heals your spiritual blindness, you cannot fully see or understand scripture. Christ has purposefully hid understanding from the many "called". Only the ones who Christ chooses and heals have ability to understand and believe His Truth. There are many scriptures that confirm this understanding.

Let me ask you this, do you understand the type and shadow of the following passage of scripture?

Mark 8:22-24 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. After that he put [his] hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly. And he sent him away to his house, saying, Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town.

If you don't understand what Christ was "typing" for us in this section of scripture then you will not understand or accept anything else that I have been shown as Truth. This blind man is a type of a called out believer. He was one of the many called but now he has been chosen and is one of Christ's Elect.

Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Also, I wanted to say that I have extensively studied the Greek word G166 "aionios". The root of this adjective is aion which means "age". The adjective form of "age" can never change the base meaning of the word from which it is derived. "Age" is a period of time that has a beginning and an ending. "Aionios" therefore cannot mean everlasting - that is the exact opposite of the root word's meaning. The verse you quoted in Matthew is properly translated by Young's Literal Translation as such:

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.

The Elect of God receive life during the next two ages while the non-elect and unbelievers remain lost. But at the end of the last age, all will have entered into the Kingdom of Heaven, however most will have missed being in His church (His bride). At the end of the final age, death will be defeated and "all things" will be "in Christ". Christ will then turn over the Kingdom of Heaven to the Father and then it is said that God will be "all in all". That is as far out into the future as scripture goes. Nothing is said about what happens after of the "ages" are complete.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> 1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

How can God be "all in all" if 99% of God's creation is lost and burning in some fabled place of eternal torment?

Also I do not pick and choose which verses of scripture are true and which ones are not. All scripture is true and with proper understanding, nothing in scripture conflicts with itself. However, the translations of scripture are very flawed in certain places. But it is God's will for it to be so. We must study and search for God's truth as if we were searching for hidden treasure. Only the "few" find it. It is God's intention for His truth to be hidden from the "many" during this age.

Joe in Arkansas

Brighthouse · Jan 5, 2011

Ah Joe,i am going to,one more time look to explain. First let us say for argument sake that you are right.ok because I know you believe you are.If there is no hell,then why did Jesus come, suffer and die? There cannot be any sin either according to you.Is that correct? Because if everyone is going to heaven,then Jesus must of made a mistake?In matt 4 He spoke with the devil,if there is no hell,then there cannot be a devil either can there? 2 tim 4:3-5 also you skipped to verse 6 of 1 peter 2:4-9 what?? verse 4 and 5 are flawed to you? oh and matt 24 must have a lot of flaws in it as well! No judgment?? Matt 24:31-46 wow 15 verses that should have not been in there you think? verse 41 Depart from me what?? accursed ones. into where Joe?? let see the Words says into eternal fire which has been prepared for the who Joe?? devil and his what JOE?? angels humm must have been a large error hu?Understand this joe. Rev 22:19 I hope you wake up and smell the coffee.because woe unto you if you do not.I was healed of two bleeding ulcers,so i understand the power of our living God,i also know his love in me,it is because of this love,that I tell you this,not because you are hated by me in any way! ,rev 3:19-22 I being a Priest for Christ( rev 1:6) admonish you,to come back to HIS Truth not someone elses.thanks

Welcome!

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