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Why debates aren't allowed

Discussion in 'News Stand' started by SpiritLedEd, Mar 10, 2007.

  1. #1 SpiritLedEd, Mar 10, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2007
    Years ago, when my daughter was a teenager (she's 36 yrs old now), she and I regularly got into discussions that evolved into the bitterest of arguments. We would literally be nose-to-nose screaming at each other sometimes. One night, in the middle of one of these arguments, she suddenly stopped yelling for a minute. Then she said quietly, "Oh well. I'd rather be happy than right" and left the room. She had learned (and was teaching me) that heated arguments do not accomplish anything positive and no one 's mind is changed;that even if you win, you lose; that, as Shakespeare wrote, "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

    All too often, debates on the internet begin with two or more people sharing and discussing opposing opinions on an issue in civil, respectful ways. But eventually one or more of them gets frustrated with those who do not agree with him. He gets irritated and, perhaps, insinuates that one or all of the others is of inferior intelligence; which, of course, elicits a response and the fight is on. This is not limited to secular websites. There's another "Christian" website that I used to hang out on where people would hurl unbelievable insults at each other.

    We don't say "no" to debates here at TalkJesus to cut off discussion of divergent opinions. We say "no" to debates because they almost inevitably lead to heated, insult filled arguments and visitors to our site who read the posts involved or "listen in" in the chat rooms would end up shaking their heads and moving on, thinking "Why in the world would I want to be a part of that?" God is not glorified and people are not edified in such battles.

    SLE
     
  2. I totally agree with this line taken Ed and also that as God's children we should do all in love as God Himself is love and yes we may disagree with someone but there is no need to get angry or annoyed about it.
     
  3. Thank you for the information provided SLE. It is very true and I have seen people pull each other apart and tear down. It is not a good way to behave. We are called to be like Jesus. What would Jesus do?

    I am reminded of the verses below.

    Proverbs 15

    NLT
    1 A gentle answer deflects anger,
    but harsh words make tempers flare.
    NIV
    1 A gentle answer turns away wrath,
    but a harsh word stirs up anger.

    4 The tongue that brings healing is a tree of life,
    but a deceitful tongue crushes the spirit.

    God bless you :love: :rainbow: :rose:
     
  4. Amen SLE


    Wisdom indeed.

    Surprised to see Shakespear grasping this. But at that time of day, the bible was held in high regard.........I guess he read a little.

    God bless
     
  5. Great thread brother.

    The forum rules states "Talk Jesus is Not a Debate Forum" on top, centered, in bold for a good reason. One, being the example you gave. Secondly, because Scripture is not debatable.
     
  6. Amen brother Chad, and SLE...the word is sharper than a double edge sword. Not much debate when you see that sword before your eyes, it cuts down even to our soul:star:

    God bless
     
  7. Completely agreed! Heated debates are never good.

    However, a heated debate should not be mistake for the following:

    1) When one rebukes another (in gentleness)
    2) When false doctrines are expose (thru scripture alone)
    3) When a humble heart is seeking answers, but asks question when confused

    Some scriptures to support what I just said:

    Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you.
    Proverbs 9:7-9

    Better is open rebuke than hidden love.
    Proverbs 27:4-6

    For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.
    Acts 18:27-28

    But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
    1 Peter 3:14-16


    *** What I truly feel is important is that we try to find asnwers to all problems, even this one, with Godly wisdom from the spirit and scripture...

    Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, in the holiness and sincerity that are from God. We have done so not according to worldly wisdom but according to God's grace.
    2 Corinthians 1:11-13
     
  8. I was going to challenge this quote but "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." :zip:
    -Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People
     
  9. As I recall, that's where I first read the quote. I'm no Shakespeare scholar, to be sure.

    SLE
     
  10. Shakespeare

    God bless you SpiritLedEd. I am no Shakespeare expert either but I do have his works on disk so I was anxious to find out which of his works it was from and drew a blank.

    It is a failing of mine to check most things including checking I have locked the door many times when going out. I suppose it comes from my training in the aircraft industry. We had a notice in the works which was very apt, saying, "There are no buff recs (repair requests) at 20,000 feet" which roughly translated meant that it was no good feeling sorry after an aircraft had fallen out of the sky.

    God bless.
     
  11. #11 Strypes, Jun 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2007
    On another site I enjoy, We have a thread called "Solomon or Shakespeare" it is in a game forum. So I do know a wee bit of Billy's quotes.. but I can not find a reference to the above quote.. Are you sure that is Shakespeare?

    They Never Said It: A Book of Fake Quotes, Misquotes, and Misleading Attributions By Paul F. Boller (page 11)

    Not billy or solo...:shock:
     
  12. #12 SpiritLedEd, Jun 4, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2007
    Thank you, Strypes.

    SLE
     
  13. Not really on topic

    Not really on topic but are you the Strypes who used to frequent ‘HomewithGod’?
     
  14. Good post brother, rebuke and debate were a common thing in the early Church. Paul rebukes and judges the Church for sin and so on, but yes this was done in love and truth. It was the Church who received more rebuke than the unbelievers. This was done to keep the man of God on his toes, and away from sin. If you know what the sins of the flesh are. Christ said as many as i love, i chasten and rebuke. Today its judge not or don't debate, but we need to understand what that means, or we have the apostle Paul contradicting Christ.

    As he said the Church could judge small matters, but if it was sins of the flesh like adultery or incest, Paul was given authority to take that person out of the assembly, and deliver him over to satan so his spirit could be saved in the end. As we see in 1Co 5:5



    That is a judgement call both by Paul and the Church, so this man could be saved in the end, although he would suffer for his sin. Judgement begins at the house of God. Some teach that this man came back to God in one of Pauls apistles, and Paul said to let him back into the assembly (us) lest he be overcome with much sorrow. Mercy again if this is true...


    Today we have adultery and all manner of sin in the Church, and some people (our leaders) don't say a word, except judge not. And this does'nt even include false teachers and prophets, who Paul judged to be cursed. And even warned us to let them be cursed. Perhaps this is mercy as well.

    But this is a hard thing today, as we have slid backwards with our judgement, even when it involves sin. Rebellion is a sad fact amongst us, so we need to be firm but mercyfull at the same time. Because Christ was mercyfull. But even when Christ did not judge, he told the offender to sin no more, or a worst thing could come upon them. So basicly judgement was coming if the offender did not repent. Delivered over to satan for his or her sins? perhaps, this may be mercy also. It may also be that God is doing this now and not Paul or the church.

    When was the last time you seen a minister delivering a sinning saint over to satan for the destruction of the flesh? This would be rare. When we see this kind of sin now in the church some are app to send him to hell in a hand basket. So its best to let God do the work and show mercy, as Paul showed this man mercy in judgement.

    1Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


    I know that debate is not judgement, but if your debateing with a false teacher it can be if he does'nt hear you, or the plain scriptures. He is self condemned, especially if he is leading other saints astray. Again we live in a time of many denominations, who gather online and their doctrines are very different than what is considered sound doctrine. So i can see God useing others to help them see the scriptures more plainly, even in debatefull conversations if they will only allow, as Monkeys post refers too.. Proverbs 27:4-6 and Acts 18:27-28

    Its a revelation thing, man needs revelation of Christ and the doctrines of the apostles. Without some, it is impossible to know the doctrines of Christ for the church. Study to show is a great saying, you are never put to shame if you are a workman approved by God. And the church is to show double honour to them who labor in the word and doctrine. 1Ti 5:17

    This is why God ordained teachers in the church, to teach the body of christ the scriptures. To lead them away from heresies, to make them better men and woman of God, for the work of the ministry, and the perfecting of the saints. To do good to all men especially them who are of the household of faith, and be a light to others in this present world. Teachers? well them who are approved of God, not just anyone should teach, this is a gift of God, as is the rest of the gifts.


    Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
    Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
    Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
    Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
    Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
    Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

    And again mercy was here for this repentant man, but the other was looked on by God as exalting himself because he was good, but he despised others.


    Done for now, hoped i helped some understand a bit more of this very touchy debate or judgement subject. But and if you are constantly in debates its time to take a look at what you are doing. As debate if done in the flesh is, or can become sin. A teacher is to wait on his teaching, as God leads.


    God bless
     
  15. I agree. I think that debates always turn into name calling and jugdments being made. THanks for the info!
     
  16. I agree, say what you have to say and leave it at that, I am learning this all the time.
    Do it in love, debate is different than discussion.

    Glory
     
  17. Mt 5:37 - Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

    being that one word post are not allowed on THIS site I thought I would add a scripture to my answer to your Question...


    yes
     
  18. Lance,

    The forums are for discussions, not for the kind of question you asked here. In the future, please use private message for such matters.

    SLE
     
  19. #19 Jonah2005bt, Jun 12, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2007
    I agree with you, Ed.

    Debates can & some do get way out of hand.

    And I must admit, my husband & I debate a lot. Not because, I want it this way, but I think it's because we both have difference in opinion.

    And to anxious in wanting to make sure that we are clear on the subject, that we understand each other or wanting & hoping that we;
    wanting me to see it his way - or - I hoping he will see it my way.

    Being to stubborn to or closed minded to hear what we each have to say.
     
  20. #20 Jonah2005bt, Jun 12, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2007
    Absolutely!

    Absolutely!

    And a very good reason why we all should start our day off with a prayer ;

    after we are done giving our thanks to GOD, we should also end the prayer, asking HIM to guide us, and to pour out HIS Holy Spirit upon us.

    Asking HIM to prepare us for such things; as debates.

    For one never knows when a debate will come, as one never knows when we may be put to the test.
     

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