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Why Christians Don't Pray to Jesus

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Why Christians Don't Pray to Jesus:


I am writing this discourse to the Christians who claim Jesus as their Lord and Master, but will not pray to him as their God. Instead, they direct their prayers to another being they call God. They say that since Jesus prayed to him, so do they. But they are wrong. And I will prove it to you. Jesus was talking about himself when he mentioned the Father.

See, God is a single person like us. (Deut. 6:4) (Mark 12:32) James 2:19 states it like this: "You believe that God is one person. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." This has to be true because this is the way he appeared on earth that Christmas day in his incarnation as Emmanuel or "the God who is now with us." And this is the way as ascended to heaven 40 days later. And too, we are made in his image, and we are single persons. Let's say it like this. If a child saw 2-3 men all claiming to be his dad, he would be confused, and so would you. This means that the Trinity is not in God dividing himself into 2 or 3 parts. The Trinity is in the way he speaks about himself when he speaks to us.

So when Jesus says the "Father sent me", or "I go to the Father," he is speaking of himself by his other name. You see this very plainly in John 5 and other Scriptures. Read it for yourself and you will see what I mean! And when he says "In my Fathers house" in John 14 he is speaking of himself, too. Only in the third person. In fact, every tine he mentions the Father he is talking about himself by his other name. The same is true when he speaks of the Holy Spirit.

And too , they completely forgot what Paul said to the Corinthian Christians in 2 Corinthians 11:2: "For I am jealous for you with the jealousy for God himself. I promised you as a pure bride to one husband, Christ. That is to say, what bride is married to one husband while praying to another. Even the Civil authorities will not permit such a thing.

Then without doubt, they do not believe what John 1:1 says about Jesus: "In the beginning was Jesus … and he was God." And they surely do not believe the words Thomas spoke about Jesus in the Upper Room: "My Lord and my God."

And for sure they don't believe what Paul said of Jesus in Titus 2:13: "... while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed. He gave his life to free us from every kind of sin, to cleanse us, and to make us his very own people, totally committed to doing good deeds."

So before I go on, let me say this: Any God other than Jesus is a false God!

See, Jesus as YHWH God proclaimed himself as the only Savior in Isaiah 45:21-23. "Consult together, argue your case," he said, ". … and state your case that I am not the only true God. … For there is no other God but me, a just God and your only Savior, no not one." And this was long before modern scholars messed thing up by inventing the idea that there is another God besides Jesus. I bet this would upset even the patriot Abraham.

That is to say, the idea of more than one being as God was an Abomination to the prophets of old, and a horrible offense to God himself. And it should be an offense to us. Paul says it like this in Galatians 4:8-9: "Before you Gentiles knew Jesus, you were slaves to so-called gods that are no gods at all. So now that you know Jesus, why do you want to go back again and become slaves to the weak and useless powers of this evil world. "Now we can finally understand what Jesus meant when he said in Matthew 24:15 that the time would come when we would see this Abomination that causes Desolation proclaimed openly in the Church, causing much distress and tribulation, and that we should run away from it. Jesus concludes by saying that unless that time of trouble is cut short, not a single person would be saved.

Jesus continues his dialogue in Isaiah 45, verse 22, by saying: "Let all the world look to me for salvation." And this is is especially true for us today. But then he adds in verse 23: "I have sworn by my own name; I have spoken the truth, and I will never go back on my word: Every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will confess that I am the only God."

Then to summarize and to say it more plainly so we can understand, Jesus is the Father (John10:30, John14:10). And he is also the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 4:17). In other words, you don't have to say "in the name of Jesus" because God is Jesus. So just say thank you Jesus, and that will be fine!

So who did Jesus pray to?." See, God was God long before he made the angels, man, or any other creature. This means that since there was no one else for God to talk to, God counseled with himself, or as we might say, he talked among himself. (Isaiah 40:14, Job 15:8, Ephesians 1: 11) How long this had been going on I don't know. Only the endless ages of the past can shed light on this.

So when Jesus prayed to the Father in the Garden, this was a continuation of the conversation God has had with himself from eternity. We should understand this because we as people made in his image do this all the time. We say to ourselves "should I go or should I do this" and we answer "yes you should."

To put it in plain English then, God as Jesus asks himself as the Father, "Are you willing for me to do die for these people?" And God as the Father says to God as Jesus, "Yes, I am." And God as Jesus consents and goes to the cross in our place. And as I said, only God as Jesus, being a man too, says it out loud in the form of a prayer. This teaches us that we too should pray in times of stress.

OH I wish we could understand!

What God is doing is talking about himself in a way that reveals (John 17:6) his other 2 names to us so we can get to know him better. This is where most Christians go wrong. They think he is talking about someone else, someone bigger than him, or someone greater than him. But as you can see, he is not.

Remember when Phillip asked Jesus to show him the Father? (John 14) Jesus replied: "Have I been with you all this time, Phillip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. The Father and I are the same person: Translated: the Father is my other name.

Let's say it like this. We are so steeped in the traditions of human logic we have been taught over the years that we try to maintain it at all coast, even in the face of the plain teachings of the Scriptures. And we say, "I hope God will understand." And this is especially true if most of our Christian preachers, and Christian friends and people we know share the same views. This means that most Christians share this false belief, too.

See, Jesus through me is revealing to you some not so well known facts about himself that you have not heard before! And I do hope that you will take them to heart!

We must remember that God as Jesus promised to come to earth and save us from our sins back in the days of Isaiah the prophet. Jesus says through the prophet in Isaiah 35:4-7: "Say to those with fearful hearts, 'Be strong, and do not fear, for your God is coming to destroy your enemies (sin, and Satan and his demons). He is coming to save you. And when he comes, he will open the eyes of the blind and unplug the ears of the deaf. The lame will leap like a dear, and those who cannot speak will sing with joy.'" This verse alone is unmistakable proof that the writer is speaking of God as Jesus and the work that he will do as our Savior.

And to clinch it all the prophet said in Isaiah 9:6-7: "For a child is born to us, a son is given to us. The government will rest on his shoulders. And his name shall be Wonderful Counselor, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, the Mighty God." Did you get that? The name of this child that was born to us is the Mighty God. Read it for yourself if you dare! And then to conclude this dialogue the prophet says, "His government and its peace will never end. He will rule with fairness and justice from the throne of his father David for all eternity. The passionate commitment of the Lord God will make this happen."

So I will conclude with the words of God as Jesus in Revelation 16, 20: "I Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this message for the churches. I am both the source of David and the heir to his throne. I am the bright morning star. … Yes, I am coming soon!"

Stay safe!


Rev. Autrey


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Loyal
You seem to have it turned around a bit. God is the Father,/ Jesus Christ is His Son /and there is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ Is God incarnate -- but they Are separate parts of the Trinity / Godhead. After Jesus Christ died on the cross for / with our sins, He was buried and then rose again bodily from the dead on the 3rd day and Then after 40 days ascended back up to heaven to be seated at the right hand of God , the Father.

Your sentence starting with "Remember when Philip....." I and My Father are One" -- in other words Jesus Christ was deity, not just a good teacher of that day. But Jesus Christ is the 2nd part of the Godhead / Trinity // Jesus Christ is the Son of God / 2nd part of the trinity. And it could be that we are saying the same thing but in different ways.
 
Loyal
You seem to have it turned around a bit. God is the Father,/ Jesus Christ is His Son /and there is the Holy Spirit.
From what I can tell, Rev Autrey is a modalist. In modalist theology God is only one being, not three. However he changes "alter-egos" from time to time.
This god is a little like Dr Jekyll and My Hyde. He changes from one being into another. Sometimes he is the father, and sometimes he is the son.
Some believe he can exist as both for very short periods of time.


In this theology, there really isn't a trinity in the sense that God is three separate beings. Rather he is three separate incarnations of the same being.
 
Loyal
Sounds like you're right. And sounds even more confusing than the belief In the Godhead. That wouldn't leave room for the Holy Spirit , would it?
 
Active
Sounds like you're right. And sounds even more confusing than the belief In the Godhead. That wouldn't leave room for the Holy Spirit , would it?
Honestly, I find it hard to believe how someone can say they are Christians, if they do not believe in the Trinity.

This satanic doctrine even got into some pentecostal churches. It is sad.
 
Loyal
Because of the trinity -- And the cross -- Jesus Christ Is our mediator between God and 'us'.

What are you referring to as a 'satanic doctrine"?

I'm concerned that you took my comment out of it's intended context. The doctrine / teaching / of the Godhead is Scriptural -- God the Father / Jesus Christ His Son/ and the Holy Spirit. There Are those who believe that God and Jesus Christ are indeed one entity.

There Are those who don't know about the trinity -- but it's still working in their lives to provide their salvation. But - to deny the truth Of the trinity -- That would be a problem. A person Does need to believe in their heart that Jesus Christ Is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins, that He was buried and that He rose again bodily the 3rd day.

Jesus Christ Is God incarnate // meaning - in the flesh. And That part Can be confusing. But it's one of those Facts that Is True . Not necessary to Understand as is it to Accept it.
 
Loyal
What are you referring to as a 'satanic doctrine"?

I'm concerned that you took my comment out of it's intended context. The doctrine / teaching / of the Godhead is Scriptural -- God the Father / Jesus Christ His Son/ and the Holy Spirit. There Are those who believe that God and Jesus Christ are indeed one entity.
I believe Kitty is agreeing with you here. She wasn't saying your doctrine is wrong, she was saying Autrey's doctrine of no-trinity is wrong.
 
Loyal
Oh, okay -- because there Is a satanic trinity -- satan / the beast/ and the false prophet. -- to clarify :)
 
Active
Because of the trinity -- And the cross -- Jesus Christ Is our mediator between God and 'us'.

What are you referring to as a 'satanic doctrine"?

I'm concerned that you took my comment out of it's intended context. The doctrine / teaching / of the Godhead is Scriptural -- God the Father / Jesus Christ His Son/ and the Holy Spirit. There Are those who believe that God and Jesus Christ are indeed one entity.

There Are those who don't know about the trinity -- but it's still working in their lives to provide their salvation. But - to deny the truth Of the trinity -- That would be a problem. A person Does need to believe in their heart that Jesus Christ Is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins, that He was buried and that He rose again bodily the 3rd day.

Jesus Christ Is God incarnate // meaning - in the flesh. And That part Can be confusing. But it's one of those Facts that Is True . Not necessary to Understand as is it to Accept it.
I was referring to Rev Autrey's post. He seems to be one of those oneness people. They are in a cult.

Trust me. They do understand it. They even call us pagans for believing in the trinity. I do not think you met any of those people.

Those who do not believe in the trinity are not my brothers or sisters. I honestly do not care much about cults, but I hate how they gave the Pentecostal movement a bad name. Also, their tongue theology is required for salvation so as far as I'm concern it is a different gospel they believe. It is all based on work for these cults.
 
Active
I am writing this discourse to the Christians who claim Jesus as their Lord and Master, but will not pray to him as their God. Instead, they direct their prayers to another being they call God.
If you think I was overreacting, then just read his first line.
 
Loyal
I don't think anyone disagrees that Jesus is God. It seems even Autrey agrees on that point.

But the Father is also God.

John 6:27; "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."

John 20:17; Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Rom 1:7; to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 15:6; so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cor 1:3; Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cor 8:6; yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

2Cor 1:2; Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Cor 1:3; Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2Cor 11:31; The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, He who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.
Gal 1:1; Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
Gal 1:3; Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

Eventually even Jesus Himself will be subject to the Father.

1Cor 15:24; then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Cor 15:25; For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
1Cor 15:26; The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
1Cor 15:27; For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Cor 15:28; When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Instead of one God who is three beings. They believe in one being that has three different manifestations.
 
Loyal
John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.

He was God, but He was also "with" God.

Gen 1:26; Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Heb 1:9; "YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS."

Mark 14:36; And He was saying, "Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will."
Luke 22:42; saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

Two separate beings (three counting the Holy Spirit) but One God. Two different wills. The Son is not the Father, and the Father is not the Son,
but they are both One God.

John 10:30; "I and the Father are one."

Matt 23:9; "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

Jesus was on Earth when He said that.

Eph 4:6; one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

Matt 3:16; After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
Matt 3:17; and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."

Three beings, one God. Jesus, the Dove (Holy Spirit), and the Father's voice from above, not from Jesus.

Mark 1:10; Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him;
Mark 1:11; and a voice came out of the heavens: "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

Luke 3:22; and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
 
Active
John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.

He was God, but He was also "with" God.

Gen 1:26; Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Heb 1:9; "YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS."

Mark 14:36; And He was saying, "Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will."
Luke 22:42; saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

Two separate beings (three counting the Holy Spirit) but One God. Two different wills. The Son is not the Father, and the Father is not the Son,
but they are both One God.

John 10:30; "I and the Father are one."

Matt 23:9; "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

Jesus was on Earth when He said that.

Eph 4:6; one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

Matt 3:16; After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
Matt 3:17; and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."

Three beings, one God. Jesus, the Dove (Holy Spirit), and the Father's voice from above, not from Jesus.

Mark 1:10; Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him;
Mark 1:11; and a voice came out of the heavens: "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

Luke 3:22; and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
Do not be surprised if Rev Autrey, or anyone in these cults tell you God is a good actor. I think this 'Jesus only' cult is far more dangerous than JWs or mormons.
 
Member
I don't think anyone disagrees that Jesus is God. It seems even Autrey agrees on that point.

But the Father is also God.

John 6:27; "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."

John 20:17; Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Rom 1:7; to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 15:6; so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cor 1:3; Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cor 8:6; yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

2Cor 1:2; Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Cor 1:3; Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2Cor 11:31; The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, He who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.
Gal 1:1; Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
Gal 1:3; Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

Eventually even Jesus Himself will be subject to the Father.

1Cor 15:24; then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Cor 15:25; For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
1Cor 15:26; The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
1Cor 15:27; For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Cor 15:28; When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Instead of one God who is three beings. They believe in one being that has three different manifestations.
Dear B-A-C:

See, Jesus has not been preached as the One True God by mainline preachers for at least 1700 years, and I do not expect them to start now. So I will be as gentle as I can with you because this is what Jesus wants from those who preach his Gospel. And too, I can see by the list of Scripture you presented that you have a desire to know more about God. So let's say this: Jesus loves you very much, so let's not resort to name calling to get our way, as some of the others have done. Jesus does not want us to do this!

Let's say it like this, they do not like my post about Jesus and will try to prevent others from believing in him!

See, if you knew anything at all about the essence of God, you would know that in God' spirit essence he is said to be present everywhere That is to say, he is in all places at the same time, or omnipresent. Said otherwise, there is no outside of God; his presence is continuous and goes on to infinity and beyond. But in the New Testament Jesus Claims this attribute for himself:

Ephesians 1:23 NLT: "And the church is his body; it is made full and complete by Christ, who fills all things everywhere with himself."

Ephesians 4:10 NLT: "And the same one who descended is the one who ascended higher than all the heavens, so that he might fill the entire universe with himself."

He also claims this attribute for himself in the Prophets and the Psalms (Luke 24:44):

Jeremiah 23:23-24: "'Am I a God near at hand,' says the Lord (Jesus), ‘and not a God afar off? Can anyone hide himself in secret places, so I shall not see him?' . . . ‘do I not fill heaven and earth?' says the Lord?"

Psalm 139:7-12: "Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
If I ascend to heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
If I take the wings of the dawn,
If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea. …"

This means that if Jesus is everywhere present and fill everything there is and beyond, there is no room for the other separate beings you call God to exist. If they did exist, they would have to exist within Jesus' everywhere presence, and would be just created entities like us. As it says Acts 17:27-28: "God (Jesus) did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. For in him we live and move and have our being."

Let's say it like this: If there were another being in the universe called God, of necessity, the spirit essence of Jesus would encompass him, and all others like him; making him of no consequence. Then to still say that he is God is too of no consequence.

So what I just said about the everywhere presence of Jesus is proof alone that there can be only one God. However since you seem skeptical, here are 4 other Scriptures; one from the Old Testament and two from the New Testament:

Deuteronomy 6:4: "The Lord Jesus our God is one Lord; The Lord is our God, the Lord alone."

Romans 3:30: "There is only one person called God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles."

1 Corinthians 8:4: "So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that "an idol is nothing at all in the world" and that "there is no God but one."

1 John 5:20-21: "And we know that Jesus has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true because we are in Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols."

And too: Jesus says that he has all power (Matthew 28:18). "And when they saw him, they worshipped him (as God): but some doubted. And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." This has to be so because Jesus cannot lie. So again, what power is left for the other two Gods. None. …!

As you can see then, these verses proving that Jesus is the One True God have been in the Bible all along. But as I said, for the past 1700 years our preachers have not taught us their true meaning. And that's because they themselves did not know their true meaning. And they still don't know! Just listen to them preach for a few minutes and you will see what I mean. And over time they taught this false concept of God to us. And we became comfortable with it. That is to say, our view of God is just the opposite of what I am telling you.

So yes God is a Trinity, but the Trinity is not in the dividing of himself into 2 or 3 parts. The Trinity is in the way he speaks about himself when he speaks to us. This is evident by what he said in John 14:7: "If you had known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!" See, God is like an actor playing three parts at the same time. That is: He speaks of himself as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). "Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." But as you can see, it is God as Jesus doing the talking.

So when Jesus says the "Father sent me", or "I go to the Father," he is speaking of himself by his other name. And when he says "In my Fathers house", he is speaking of himself, too. Only in the third person. In fact, every time he mentions the Father, he is speaking of himself by his other name. The same is true when he speaks of the Holy Spirit.

So all that John 1:1 is saying when it says of Jesus: "... he existed in the beginning with God" is what I have been saying all along: that God has 2 other names besides Jesus: the Father and the Holy Spirit. Only he is saying it in a parabolic or metaphoric way!

See, I am giving you some thoughts about Jesus that you haven't known before. But they are is true!

(And by the way, the term "Son of God" is a metaphor, too. Jesus uses it to describe his stay on earth as a man in human flesh. And too, this combats all the other false Son's of God that we we in the Pagan world.)

So again, remember that Jesus loves you very much. He proved this when he came from heaven to earth and died in your place on the cross that Friday afternoon. And he also proves this by giving you life and breath, and rain in due season, and by giving you sunshine to keep you warm and fresh air to breath. And by letting you live in a glorious land so you can have a good life. As it says in Colossians 1:17: "... and he is before all things, and in him all things consist." So where does this leave the other 2 separate beings called God: Nowhere! And now he wants to have a personal relationship with you just the way he did in the Garden of Eden before the fall, when we pulled away from him. This is the ultimate outcome of the Gospel message.

Take Care and Stay safe.


Rev. Autrey
 
Loyal
So I will be as gentle as I can with you because this is what Jesus wants
Thank you for that.

Jeremiah 23:23-24: "'Am I a God near at hand,' says the Lord (Jesus), ‘and not a God afar off? Can anyone hide himself in secret places, so I shall not see him?' . . . ‘do I not fill heaven and earth?' says the Lord?"
I have 18 Bibles, not one of them has the word "Jesus" in this verse.

You tend to lose a lot of credibility when you start adding and taking away words in the Bible.
 
Member
Do not be surprised if Rev Autrey, or anyone in these cults tell you God is a good actor. I think this 'Jesus only' cult is far more dangerous than JWs or mormons.
There is a difference between the Trinity and the Godhead. The trinity is the false idea of the three in one being where as the Godhead is the three separate members God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Or, as I have mentioned before, the Author, the publisher and the testator. The trinity is often a misunderstood idea. My father, catholic but very lapsed having married a protestant woman, and even then I am not sure if he was a regular attendee of church as I wasn't born!) really doesn't get it. Try to talk to a Catholic priest about it though... Anyway, the Godhead is my understanding. This does not make me a non Christian KittyLinda.

What you say is offensive. I would suggest that everyone in here has different backgrounds and different beliefs. That is the challenge with having a board like this. Rather than being critical of those who believe differently to you may I kindly suggest that you simply state what it is you do believe rather than trying to tear down others beliefs. Whilst I have a tough skin, I also feel I should stand up for that which I believe. Especially as a priesthood holder, I am charged with sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Now forgive me if I go a little off topic here but I think it's fairly justified.

I don't know if you really understand what a cult is. Usually a small group who are very insular. I may regard the Scientologists a cult, but they are do off the wall and not even in the discussion of being a Christian religion so I disregard them completely.

Is the church of Jesus Christ a cult? Let's look a little more closely shall we. And this is by no means a complete list..

1. We carry the Lord's name and take upon us His name at baptism.
2. We allow others to worship as they see fit, and ask that we are allowed to do the same.
3. Every year, the church gives millions to charities, is often the first on site when there are natural disasters and gives millions to them. Service missionaries give of their time ad resources to serve people in many lands to help improve their lives and they do this not for personal glory, but because they have the love of Christ and a desire to help our Father's children. We help with donations of wheelchairs, fresh water projects, medical aid etc.
4. Is recognised as a world major religion and works side by side with many other churches and charitable organisations. Apostles speak at many governments worldwide.
5. It stands up for what it believes in. Not weakening the doctrines of Christ to suit the world. They don't change in order to get more bums on seats. There may be minor changes in policy, but doctrines remain the same.
6. We serve in a variety of callings, all without remuneration, simply because we love the Lord.
7. We study more than most other Christian denominations.
8. We have the Lord's prophet on the earth at this time and receive revelation to help us in our life. Before the crash some years ago we were warned by President Gordon B Hinckley that there were hard times coming. We were prepared. We were prepared for the current situation and emphasis was moved to a home based study and church supported and reduced time at church on a Sunday.
9. We visit other members to take care of their spiritual and temporal needs. Many of us, where they can, get involved in the local community in a number of ways.
10. We share the gospel and the message of the restored church with missionaries and members. Many of these young men and women get to serve in lands that they don't have the language for, yet in a very few months they are speaking the language and usually by the end of the mission many are fluent in that language or certainly very advanced. This can only be done with the help of the spirit.
11. We have the Melchizedek restored to the church for worthy males. We have the Aaronic priesthood for young men which is the priesthood required to baptise.
12. Over the course of it's existence there have been many documented miracles occurring.
13. Know that God loves all His children and many who love Him and Christ Jesus, will receive the opportunity to be taught the gospel after death. If we are wrong, we too will have that opportunity. That said, I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is exactly what it says it is.
14. We have the Book of Mormon, a Second Witness of Jesus Christ. It doesn't replace the bible. It is the stick of Ephraim, the branch of Joseph, he who had the greater blessing than Judah, which tick is the bible. I testify that if anyone wants to get closer to Christ it can be done by studying that book. I also testify that if one reads it and ponders what is in it, and then sincerely prays about it, asking the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ if it is true, they will receive an powerful answer to the affirmative. However, that must be with the same desire to know and do the will of the Father that James called for.
15. We are so respected that we have even been asked to build a temple in Saudi Arabia, a predominantly Muslim country. We have also been given permission to build a temple in China for the Chinese saints.
16. We have the ability to take care of members if they are in need.

Are we perfect? Of course not. We would have no need to be here if that was the case. Do some give the church a bad name, yes, there are many who treat their membership lightly and take it for granted, at least at some point in their lives. It will be harder for us to repent in the next life and we will be judged more harshly because we have the fullness of the gospel.

When I was being taught about the church, one of the things that really impressed me was this, which the senior missionary said.

"We will tell you what we believe, but don't take our word for it. Read the book and pray about it!" or words very similar to that. That was impressive. In all my investigations no one had ever made that comment.

I could go on but I will stop there (at least for now) but share this thought.


There are only three possibilities.

1. There is no God, nothing after this life and the atheists are correct.
If this is true of course, it really doesn't matter what we (or you) do because there is nothing after.

2. We are wrong and another church is right. If that is so I do not know of another church that carries the Lord's name and makes the claim to be the living church of the living Christ. What would you expect the Lord's restored church to be. Would you expect it to sit quite and do nothing or declare the Lord's will?
If this is right, it really doesn't matter what we do because it's incorrect and as such we will find out what is correct after we die.

3. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is exactly what it says it is. If so then the restoration is the biggest and most important thing to have taken place and second only to the atonement of Jesus Christ.
If this, as I believe, is correct, then the church contains the fullness of the gospel and doctrines of Christ, has the ordinances required for the exaltation of man and the ordinances to allow those who have died to also be given the opportunity to progress after death. This can only be done via vicarious baptisms in the temple.

Some would say that Joseph Smith was a liar. But I will say this, that no bad man could have written the book of Mormon. And certainly not in the time that it was translated. Don't believe me, then take up the challenge (give yearly at BYU) to write a similar book in the space of 90 days. It was nearer to 60 in Joseph Smith's case. Further, you must include a place that has not yet been discovered but will be discovered at some time in the future. This must also be written in one draft only. It must contain gospel principles in harmony with the bible and include scriptures from the bible, which those who went to the Americas would have had and preached. So far, no one has ever taken up that challenge.

Further, He [Joseph Smith] and his brother Hyrum and others willing and knowingly went to their deaths rather than run from the authorities. If you had set up a false church would you have sacrificed yourself in that way. Now I know there have been real cults that have all committed suicide etc. but that really is a different kettle of fish. Never did he deny that which he said. I must also point out that there were a couple of apostles who became disaffected from the church but still never denied what they had put their names to as a testimony of the Book of Mormon. Many prophets of God had their lives taken. Most of the apostles, many of the prophets in the OT too.

Remember this, that when Christ walked on earth, many of the religious leaders of the day rejected Him and His gospel. They didn't fully understand the scriptures then, those that testified of Christ. They expected, and many do still expect to this day, for some grand entrance into the world or to their land. Don't make the same mistake. But you are free to worship how you see fit. We are given that privilege. But when you make the sort of judgements that you have been making, you are certainly not being Christlike. Please allow us the joy of worshiping as we see fit also.

Whilst I do not agree with the JWs, you know what, they are generally good citizens, they are honest and hard working and I rather suspect that when they learn the gospel, having parted this mortal existence, they will more than likely accept it and follow the Saviour. I know of myself, that I am a much better person for being in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints than I would have been without it. My being alive when the missionaries found me was a miracle in itself.

I know that the ordinances performed in the temple are binding in Heaven because of experiences I have had there as ordinances where performed. What the experiences were makes no difference. Had I seen the Saviour himself, it would be my experience and everyone has to have their own experiences to grow. I wish I had found the church when I was younger. It's a great place to be. But I guess I wasn't ready for it then. As many are now not ready for it. It requires a lot of committent and a huge change in ones life.

My point is this.. If you don't want to be judged, then best not to judge others. Especially when such judgements are unfounded and incorrect. One thing that really strengthened my testimony was the amount of anti literature and web sites dedicated to trying to prove the church wrong. They often used falsities or half truths and took things out of context. If you want to know about the church then read what members have written in their journals. Those that had the faith to leave every thing and travel to Utah. especially those who left from Europe and the UK particularly. It takes something very very special to do that.

We are all God's children, He wants us all back. Some of us will take a little longer getting there for one reason or another. In Acts (19:1-6) Paul had to re-baptise people because they were not baptised by one holding the authority to baptise them, further they had not received the Holy Ghost (baptism of water and baptism of fire). In the early days of the church when there were very few alternative churches to baptise, it was important to have that baptism done again by one (Paul) who had the authority and correct priesthood to baptise these again and to lay on his hands to bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost. Today there are hundreds of different churches, and they can not all hold that authority from God to baptise and pass on the gift of the Holy Ghost. There is an order in everything.

Well, it's time to go to bed now.. I am happy to answer questions and talk about the church and my faith, but quite unwilling to have it belittled. Please respect that as I respect your right to believe in something different.

Thank you.
 
Active
There is a difference between the Trinity and the Godhead. The trinity is the false idea of the three in one being where as the Godhead is the three separate members God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Or, as I have mentioned before, the Author, the publisher and the testator. The trinity is often a misunderstood idea. My father, catholic but very lapsed having married a protestant woman, and even then I am not sure if he was a regular attendee of church as I wasn't born!) really doesn't get it. Try to talk to a Catholic priest about it though... Anyway, the Godhead is my understanding. This does not make me a non Christian KittyLinda.

What you say is offensive. I would suggest that everyone in here has different backgrounds and different beliefs. That is the challenge with having a board like this. Rather than being critical of those who believe differently to you may I kindly suggest that you simply state what it is you do believe rather than trying to tear down others beliefs. Whilst I have a tough skin, I also feel I should stand up for that which I believe. Especially as a priesthood holder, I am charged with sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Now forgive me if I go a little off topic here but I think it's fairly justified.

I don't know if you really understand what a cult is. Usually a small group who are very insular. I may regard the Scientologists a cult, but they are do off the wall and not even in the discussion of being a Christian religion so I disregard them completely.

Is the church of Jesus Christ a cult? Let's look a little more closely shall we. And this is by no means a complete list..

1. We carry the Lord's name and take upon us His name at baptism.
2. We allow others to worship as they see fit, and ask that we are allowed to do the same.
3. Every year, the church gives millions to charities, is often the first on site when there are natural disasters and gives millions to them. Service missionaries give of their time ad resources to serve people in many lands to help improve their lives and they do this not for personal glory, but because they have the love of Christ and a desire to help our Father's children. We help with donations of wheelchairs, fresh water projects, medical aid etc.
4. Is recognised as a world major religion and works side by side with many other churches and charitable organisations. Apostles speak at many governments worldwide.
5. It stands up for what it believes in. Not weakening the doctrines of Christ to suit the world. They don't change in order to get more bums on seats. There may be minor changes in policy, but doctrines remain the same.
6. We serve in a variety of callings, all without remuneration, simply because we love the Lord.
7. We study more than most other Christian denominations.
8. We have the Lord's prophet on the earth at this time and receive revelation to help us in our life. Before the crash some years ago we were warned by President Gordon B Hinckley that there were hard times coming. We were prepared. We were prepared for the current situation and emphasis was moved to a home based study and church supported and reduced time at church on a Sunday.
9. We visit other members to take care of their spiritual and temporal needs. Many of us, where they can, get involved in the local community in a number of ways.
10. We share the gospel and the message of the restored church with missionaries and members. Many of these young men and women get to serve in lands that they don't have the language for, yet in a very few months they are speaking the language and usually by the end of the mission many are fluent in that language or certainly very advanced. This can only be done with the help of the spirit.
11. We have the Melchizedek restored to the church for worthy males. We have the Aaronic priesthood for young men which is the priesthood required to baptise.
12. Over the course of it's existence there have been many documented miracles occurring.
13. Know that God loves all His children and many who love Him and Christ Jesus, will receive the opportunity to be taught the gospel after death. If we are wrong, we too will have that opportunity. That said, I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is exactly what it says it is.
14. We have the Book of Mormon, a Second Witness of Jesus Christ. It doesn't replace the bible. It is the stick of Ephraim, the branch of Joseph, he who had the greater blessing than Judah, which tick is the bible. I testify that if anyone wants to get closer to Christ it can be done by studying that book. I also testify that if one reads it and ponders what is in it, and then sincerely prays about it, asking the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ if it is true, they will receive an powerful answer to the affirmative. However, that must be with the same desire to know and do the will of the Father that James called for.
15. We are so respected that we have even been asked to build a temple in Saudi Arabia, a predominantly Muslim country. We have also been given permission to build a temple in China for the Chinese saints.
16. We have the ability to take care of members if they are in need.

Are we perfect? Of course not. We would have no need to be here if that was the case. Do some give the church a bad name, yes, there are many who treat their membership lightly and take it for granted, at least at some point in their lives. It will be harder for us to repent in the next life and we will be judged more harshly because we have the fullness of the gospel.

When I was being taught about the church, one of the things that really impressed me was this, which the senior missionary said.

"We will tell you what we believe, but don't take our word for it. Read the book and pray about it!" or words very similar to that. That was impressive. In all my investigations no one had ever made that comment.

I could go on but I will stop there (at least for now) but share this thought.


There are only three possibilities.

1. There is no God, nothing after this life and the atheists are correct.
If this is true of course, it really doesn't matter what we (or you) do because there is nothing after.

2. We are wrong and another church is right. If that is so I do not know of another church that carries the Lord's name and makes the claim to be the living church of the living Christ. What would you expect the Lord's restored church to be. Would you expect it to sit quite and do nothing or declare the Lord's will?
If this is right, it really doesn't matter what we do because it's incorrect and as such we will find out what is correct after we die.

3. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is exactly what it says it is. If so then the restoration is the biggest and most important thing to have taken place and second only to the atonement of Jesus Christ.
If this, as I believe, is correct, then the church contains the fullness of the gospel and doctrines of Christ, has the ordinances required for the exaltation of man and the ordinances to allow those who have died to also be given the opportunity to progress after death. This can only be done via vicarious baptisms in the temple.

Some would say that Joseph Smith was a liar. But I will say this, that no bad man could have written the book of Mormon. And certainly not in the time that it was translated. Don't believe me, then take up the challenge (give yearly at BYU) to write a similar book in the space of 90 days. It was nearer to 60 in Joseph Smith's case. Further, you must include a place that has not yet been discovered but will be discovered at some time in the future. This must also be written in one draft only. It must contain gospel principles in harmony with the bible and include scriptures from the bible, which those who went to the Americas would have had and preached. So far, no one has ever taken up that challenge.

Further, He [Joseph Smith] and his brother Hyrum and others willing and knowingly went to their deaths rather than run from the authorities. If you had set up a false church would you have sacrificed yourself in that way. Now I know there have been real cults that have all committed suicide etc. but that really is a different kettle of fish. Never did he deny that which he said. I must also point out that there were a couple of apostles who became disaffected from the church but still never denied what they had put their names to as a testimony of the Book of Mormon. Many prophets of God had their lives taken. Most of the apostles, many of the prophets in the OT too.

Remember this, that when Christ walked on earth, many of the religious leaders of the day rejected Him and His gospel. They didn't fully understand the scriptures then, those that testified of Christ. They expected, and many do still expect to this day, for some grand entrance into the world or to their land. Don't make the same mistake. But you are free to worship how you see fit. We are given that privilege. But when you make the sort of judgements that you have been making, you are certainly not being Christlike. Please allow us the joy of worshiping as we see fit also.

Whilst I do not agree with the JWs, you know what, they are generally good citizens, they are honest and hard working and I rather suspect that when they learn the gospel, having parted this mortal existence, they will more than likely accept it and follow the Saviour. I know of myself, that I am a much better person for being in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints than I would have been without it. My being alive when the missionaries found me was a miracle in itself.

I know that the ordinances performed in the temple are binding in Heaven because of experiences I have had there as ordinances where performed. What the experiences were makes no difference. Had I seen the Saviour himself, it would be my experience and everyone has to have their own experiences to grow. I wish I had found the church when I was younger. It's a great place to be. But I guess I wasn't ready for it then. As many are now not ready for it. It requires a lot of committent and a huge change in ones life.

My point is this.. If you don't want to be judged, then best not to judge others. Especially when such judgements are unfounded and incorrect. One thing that really strengthened my testimony was the amount of anti literature and web sites dedicated to trying to prove the church wrong. They often used falsities or half truths and took things out of context. If you want to know about the church then read what members have written in their journals. Those that had the faith to leave every thing and travel to Utah. especially those who left from Europe and the UK particularly. It takes something very very special to do that.

We are all God's children, He wants us all back. Some of us will take a little longer getting there for one reason or another. In Acts (19:1-6) Paul had to re-baptise people because they were not baptised by one holding the authority to baptise them, further they had not received the Holy Ghost (baptism of water and baptism of fire). In the early days of the church when there were very few alternative churches to baptise, it was important to have that baptism done again by one (Paul) who had the authority and correct priesthood to baptise these again and to lay on his hands to bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost. Today there are hundreds of different churches, and they can not all hold that authority from God to baptise and pass on the gift of the Holy Ghost. There is an order in everything.

Well, it's time to go to bed now.. I am happy to answer questions and talk about the church and my faith, but quite unwilling to have it belittled. Please respect that as I respect your right to believe in something different.

Thank you.

Mack. One of my friends is a Mormon. She is very sweet, very polite, but she does not worship the true Jesus. We still socialize, hug, eat together, but she is not my sister in the lord. Just like you, she needs deliverance from Mormonism. I told her this once and we are still friends. I’m not being judgmental. I want you to know Jesus. God loves you, but Mormonism is a false gospel. I’ve seen Mormons a lot around student colleges. They usually target the youth. Some of them are very deceptive and I know some of them have good hearts, but they still need to know the true Jesus.

There is one God, and he exists in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are NOT three separate gods. They are only one God. This is the Trinity. This is biblical.

You talked a lot about your ungodly organization here but none of us will tell you where you should go to worship, if you were a Christian. I can go worship in ‘any’ church. You name it. It could be a Baptist Church, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, or even in some Anglican churches. Even Catholics worship the same God as us, but Mormons and JWs do not worship the true Jesus. I also won’t worship in these non-trinitarian Pentecostal churches, despite being Pentecostal myself. It is because their doctrine on salvation is false. It is as simple as that.

Mormons and JWs do not have the Holy Spirit, and are lost souls. I’m not saying this to condemn you in any way. This is just to warn you, and it is said in love. You guys are free to believe what ever you want, but if you think you are going to preach a false heretical gospel here on a Christian platform without some challenges, then you’re wrong. The Mormon church is not true, and Joseph Smith is a false prophet, and he is in hell now.

Mormonism says God was a man on another planet! Mormonism says you can become a God! Mormonism says there is a mother goddess and other gods. Mormonism teaches baptism for the dead. Mormonism says God had sex with Mary! Mormonism tells you that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers!! Also, Mormons do not believe Jesus sacrifice was enough. I’m going to say it again and again. Get out of this cult, before it is too late.
 
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