WHO IS THE RESTRAINER ?

[Gerbolski]

This is a discussion on who the restrainer is.

There are a few views on this.

First of all let us get to scripture:

2Th 2:7-8
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Now word letteth means this:

(Strong's concordance, word letteth)

(G2722
κατέχω
katechō
kat-ekh'-o
From G2596 and G2192; to hold down (fast), in various applications (literally or figuratively): - have, hold (fast), keep (in memory), let, X make toward, possess, retain, seize on, stay, take, withhold.
Total KJV occurrences: 19)


So whoever this "he" who now letteth is, he is one that is hindering something, whitholding something, or retaining something.

The 2 popular views today, are that the restrainer either refers to the Holy Spirit, or the church, but way back when the popular view was that the one taken out of the way was the Roman empire, which seized from a governmental empire, and went to an ecclesiatical empire with the popish office, which was Roman Catholicism.

It goes something like that.

 

[Gerbolski]

Now my questions are, who is the restrainer, that is the one that will be taken out of the way ?

What is he actually restraining?

The one who letteth, is known as an "he".

Are actually any of the 3 views I mentioned in my first post, the actual real view ?

 

[B-A-C]

I am a post tribber... (this is one of six passages that support post-trib)

2Thes 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Thes 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thes 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Thes 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
2Thes 2:5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
2Thes 2:6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
2Thes 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
2Thes 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Thes 2:9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Thes 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Thes 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Thes 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

This is talking about Jesus coming back... and "gathering" us (Christians) "together to Him". (some call this the rapture).
But it says here... that will not happen until after the great apostasy happens (it is happening right now... look around).

It also says Jesus won't come back and gather us up... until after the man of lawlessness is revealed (the beast) and takes his seat in the temple. It would seem this act of taking his seat in the temple... is exactly the act that reveals who he is.

But the man of lawlessness isn't revealed yet... something (some one) is restraining him right now.
Some say the Holy Spirit... some say the church... some say God Himself.

Rev 22:11 "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

In order to support passages like Matt 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, that say the rapture will happen AFTER the tribulation... some
people have invented a second rapture. They say the church is already gone... and these are people that got saved during the tribulation.

However according to the passage above (and others) the church will still be here when the beast takes his seat in the temple.
So then.. it is possible.. that it could be the Holy Spirit that will be removed. You say... in that case... how could anyone be saved afterwards, ... I contend that no one will be. The door is already shut. Rev 22:11 says... the saved will stay saved... the unsaved will stay unsaved.

 

[B-A-C]

Some say there will be a great revival during the tribulation... I dont see this in the Bible... I see the opposite.

Matt 11:20 Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent.
Rev 2:21 'I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.

Rev 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;
Rev 9:21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.
Rev 16:9 Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.
Rev 16:11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.

 

[Gerbolski]

Some say there will be a great revival during the tribulation... I dont see this in the Bible... I see the opposite.

Matt 11:20 Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent.
Rev 2:21 'I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.

Rev 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;
Rev 9:21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.
Rev 16:9 Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.
Rev 16:11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.

Hi B-A-C, how about we go one verse at a time concerning the restrainer, with verses before hand, and verses afterwards.

 

[B-A-C]

Lets start with 2Thes 2:3... because this is where the first "he" gets defined.

 

[Gerbolski]

Lets start with 2Thes 2:3... because this is where the first "he" gets defined.

We can start there for now, but I wanted to get to verses before hand, even verse 1, then go downwards, but for now, if you want to go that way we can, then maybe later we can go back to verse 1.

 

[Gerbolski]

Ok this is what verse 3 says:

2Th 2:3
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Ok were is this first he, in regards to verse 8, concerning he who gets taken away, mentioned here?

The 3 things mentioned here is that a certain day won't come, except there be a falling away first, and that man of sin being revealed.

Now I take this day (singular) as referring to the second coming, and not the rapture, which in both the rapture and second coming there are certain types of gatherings which I can prove with scripture even closely worded words..

In fact the day mentioned in verse 3 and verse 1, are in conjunction to what is mentioned in the previous chapter.

2Th 1:8-10
(8) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(9) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
(10) When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

But let us stick to the second coming aspect of things, just so to focus on he who now letteth is, so we do not let the rapture/second coming issue, prevent us from seeing who this "he" is.

Ok so the falling away at some point has to happen first, which I agree with you that it is happening right now, it does not say when before the second coming it has to happen, just that it must happen first.

And sometime after that ( falling away is on the scene) the man of sin gets revealed in who is, which I agree with you on that.

And sometime after he gets revealed, can the second coming happen.

But the "he" who now letteth first has to be out of the way, in order for the man of sin to be revealed, and for the second coming to take place, so obviously, he that gets taken out of the way cannot be referring to the event of the second coming, or Christ coming down to earth.

 

[Gerbolski]

2Th 2:3-8
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
(6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Now I know that many people interpret that the restrainer is restraining evil, he is holding back evil in general from increasing, but it does not say that, what it specifically says that is being hindered is the revealing of who the man of sin is.

It mentions the word "revealed" 3 times.

 

[B-A-C]

It mentions the word "revealed" 3 times.

The man of sin... is who is being revealed... (most scholars say this is the beast of revelation).
Do you think it's something else? Someone else?

 

[Gerbolski]

2Th 2:3-7
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
(6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The falling away, which is the apostasy, first has to happen.

So Paul just told the Thessalonians, what must happen, before the antichrist can be revealed in whom he is.

And then in verse 6, it says now ye know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time.

How did they now know ?

Paul just told them, that the prophecy of this end times apostasy at to first take place, so prophetically it was hindering the time of the revealing of the antichrist, for it had not yet taken place.

But notice that in verse 6, it does not call the one that was withholding an "he", the "he" in verse 7 gets taken out of the way, but the apostasy which had to happen first, is not something taken away here, it is something that stays on the scene, so that the man of sin can be revealed.

So there are 2 things that hold things back, an event called the falling away, and a specific "he" that has to be taken out of the way.

 

[Gerbolski]

The man of sin... is who is being revealed... (most scholars say this is the beast of revelation).
Do you think it's something else? Someone else?

It is the beast of revelation, which is the antichrist that gets revealed, no doubt, but some "he" is hindering that revealing.

 

[Gerbolski]

And I will not get into all the aspects of the beast here.

 

[Gerbolski]

2Th 2:3-7
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
(6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The falling away, which is the apostasy, first has to happen.

So Paul just told the Thessalonians, what must happen, before the antichrist can be revealed in whom he is.

And then in verse 6, it says now ye know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time.

How did they now know ?

Paul just told them, that the prophecy of this end times apostasy at to first take place, so prophetically it was hindering the time of the revealing of the antichrist, for it had not yet taken place.

But notice that in verse 6, it does not call the one that was withholding an "he", the "he" in verse 7 gets taken out of the way, but the apostasy which had to happen first, is not something taken away here, it is something that stays on the scene, so that the man of sin can be revealed.

So there are 2 things that hold things back, an event called the falling away, and a specific "he" that has to be taken out of the way.

We know that an apostasy is not an "he" but rather an event, the church is not an "he" for she is referred to as a bride, now the Holy Ghost is an "he", but does he fit in being this "he" ?

Now the Roman Catholic church is not an "he", but the pope is, but does he really fit ? Now I an not for the Roman Catholic church, but do not see him as fitting at all.

Or is there another "he" ?

 

[Gerbolski]

Curtis said: Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. The word "power" in verse 19 means "authority". Authority is useless if there is no power to back it up. The "restrainer" is not the Holy Spirit, but he is connected to the "restrainer" Who did Jesus give power to over all the power of our enemy? His Church!!!! The Church is the restrainer, and as long as the restrainer is on this earth, then the man of sin, "the antichrist," can not be revealed. The Holy Spirit not only leads and guides the Church he is also the "power" behind man "authority that restrains what man binds on earth.

Well in the Thessalonians verses, it is not talking about binding and loosing people from their bondages or setting them free from spirits, as that verse speaks of, it just speaks of the antichrist being revealed in who he is, and that is it.

It is not talking about hindering evil from increasing, it is just simply referring to the Antichrist being revealed in who he is, nothing more.

Now I know some people make arguments on how even though the church is not an "he" they somehow fit the church as being an "he", but we have to be honest with the wording of things, I used to believe that the restrainer was either the church or the Holy Spirit, but I put away what others were saying and started to be honest with what it actually says, without taking anything out of context.

I am not trying to be mean here, I went through this process, and still going through many processes.

Now on the side of the Holy Spirit, he can be said as being an "he", and some say that the Holy Spirit gets taken out of the way, at the time of the rapture, and I use to believe that but, there is no scripture that actually says that, and I believe in a pretrib rapture.

Yes concerning the church it gets caught up, gets taken out of the way sort of speak, but the Holy Spirit himself will still be here on earth, for people will get saved, people will be martyred in the tribulation period, which shows some saved people being on earth, and you need the Holy Spirit to be saved.

And Joel 2, which has many facets to it, and not just the book of Acts part of it, shows of a moving of the Spirit just before the time of the second coming, or before the great and terrible day.

So really how does the church hinder the Antichrist from being revealed?

Does the church being gone in and of itself really cause people to see who the Antichrist is ?

And were is the connecting verse that actually shows that ?

God is not the author of confusion, he does not want guessing games.

And concerning the Holy Spirit, what is one of his jobs ?

Joh 16:8-13
(8) And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
(9) Of sin, because they believe not on me;
(10) Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
(11) Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
(12) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
(13) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

One of the Holy Spirit's jobs is to reveal truth, and to reprove the world of sin.

The Holy Spirit reveals sin, reveals the hidden works of darkness, and even reveals who false prophets are, false teachers and so forth, and the people that are in the times of the tribulation period, will need the Holy Spirit to reveal to them who this antichrist is, and it is the Holy Spirit that will reveal the 666 riddle.

And he reveals scripture.

And concerning the church, they are to reprove the hidden works of darkness, in some way, and even expose false ones.

So who truly hinders the antichrist from being revealed ?

Well let us go unto verses:

2Th 2:6
(6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

First of all the Antichrist must be revealed in his time, which is when he is on the scene, and ready to be revealed.

2Th 2:3
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Secondly , the apostasy must first take place.

2Th 2:7
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

And Thirdly, once the apotasy is on the scene, at some point after, can the "he" who now letteth be taken out of the way, which will cause people to see whom the Antichrist is, but will be revealed to them by the Holy Spirit of truth.

 

[Gerbolski]

2Th 2:3-7
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
(6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way

In these verses, notice what it is speaking about.

It mentions the coming of the one who is holy, which is Christ (that day shall not come), but then it mentions a lot of things that are of a bad nature, such as an apostasy, the man of sin, and the mystery of iniquoty.

What is the mystery of iniqquity ?

 

[Curtis]

Well in the Thessalonians verses, it is not talking about binding and loosing people from their bondages or setting them free from spirits, as that verse speaks of, it just speaks of the antichrist being revealed in who he is, and that is it.

Do you believe that the Church that Jesus is the head of has any authority over all the power of our enemy? Can a born-again believer resist the Devil so that he will flee from you? That is power over all works of darkness. Of course, if no one believes that or does not operate in the anointing that the Holy Spirit gives it means nothing. You can not believe in what you do not know, and you can not experience what you do not believe.

The Holy Spirit, who works together with Jesus's Church he (the Holy Spirit) works miracles in our midst when he (the Holy Spirit) hears our faith.

Gal 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (NKJV)

The Holy Spirit will not be taken out of this world at the pretrib rapture, but the Church will which Jesus gave his authority to.

 

[Curtis]

(5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
(6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (NKJV)

Did you notice that the restrainer must be removed first before the lawless one (antichrist) can be revealed?

 

[Curtis]

2Th 2:3
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Secondly , the apostasy must first take place.

There are certain events that must happen before the man of sin can be revealed.

The "restrainer" must be taken out of the way, which is the Church of Jesus Christ, and then there must be a falling away (apostasy). This apotasy is the greatest of all evil the world will ever see.

Jesus said......

Joh 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

The greatest apostasy (falling away) will happen when the Jews receive the antichrist to be their messiah (Jesus prophesied it), in which the antichrist will proclaim himself to be God while sitting in the temple of God!

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Curtis]

There are some things that are "possible," and there are some things that are "impossible."

It is possible for a man to have works and yet have no faith at all, but it is impossible for a man to have faith without having works.

it is possible for the Church to be taken out of this world with the Holy Spirit remaining, but it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to be taken out of this world without the Church going with him.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will never leave you or forsake you.