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Where is the solid proof that our LORD Jesus Christ is real not just in the Bible?

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How do we know that the promise of heaven isn't just one of satans sick jokes? The only reference we have to defend that the promise of heaven is only in the bible and peoples testimonies.
Where is the proof of heaven? Something solid, not just words from the bible, or predictions that supposedly came true also miracles that were performed?
What if the whole of the bible was cooked up by satan, that he over peoples minds to write the bible for him so it appears genuine. Today people can read peoples minds,put thoughts into peoples minds, can control their every day lives through witchcraft and black magic, voodoo whatever you want to call it), and trick them into thinking that god is working in their lives. It's real, trust me, I've been going through psychic attacks emotionall and physically for the past 3 years.
It's satans biggest prize (revenge) when a Christian is expecting to go to the wonders of 'heaven' when they die, only to be greeted by satan with him laughing with all his might at the result of his wicked joke (to revel in your devastation that you've spent your whole life serving Christ, believing in him, trusting in him, thinking that the things he's done for us have all along stan (devil)playing tricks on us, when all along we've been here in hell (eygpt) and there's no way out. That satan says to you, because you didn't live a sinful life, I will repay you for this, thinking that Jesus Christ the LORD is your saviour my enemy, I condem you to perpetual intolerable suffering in the depths of hell for eternity. If you had lived a sinful life and gave me pleasure, I may have been more lenient with you and reincarnated you into another sinful human life (to give me pleasure in watching you and messing with your life) and because you lived your life that way, you get the worst of all that hell has to offer (perpetual intolerable suffering for eternity). What then? I would've have rather lived a sinful life, if the consequence of not living a sinful life results in the most intolerable suffering for eternity, never even with the chance of being reincarnated back into hell here on earth as a sinful human again,as to, having spent my life following a religion of selflessness and service to God and all the rules and laws that that brings (which are tough to follow lets face it) Can anyone give concrete advice on how to confirm that God our LORD Jesus Christ is real without stating words from the Bible, after all they are just words.

Just because there is satan what's to say there is a God our LORD Jesus Christ?
I would be so grateful if someone can help me get my head round this please please please.
 
Loyal
Why would satan be telling us that he is a liar - the greatest deceiver of all time.

You commented that the Only reference of heaven is God's Word and people's testimonies. Their changed lives.

If you're not going to believe God's Words in His Word, then the alternative is believing satan's lies. If you're not going to believe the changes in the lives of born-again believers for the Better, then there's really nothing more that can be offered to you. If you're not going to accept the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross of calvary -- His bodily resurrection. Then you have nothing.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God..... created....."

Lucifer was the most beautiful angel that God created. Turns out that he wasn't satisfied with God either. Lucifer rebelled against God and was thrown out of heaven -- he became satan. And, upon reading God's Word, we find out what happens to satan in the end. Do YOU really want to go there?!
 
Member
Why would satan be telling us that he is a liar - the greatest deceiver of all time.

You commented that the Only reference of heaven is God's Word and people's testimonies. Their changed lives.

If you're not going to believe God's Words in His Word, then the alternative is believing satan's lies. If you're not going to believe the changes in the lives of born-again believers for the Better, then there's really nothing more that can be offered to you. If you're not going to accept the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross of calvary -- His bodily resurrection. Then you have nothing.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God..... created....."

Lucifer was the most beautiful angel that God created. Turns out that he wasn't satisfied with God either. Lucifer rebelled against God and was thrown out of heaven -- he became satan. And, upon reading God's Word, we find out what happens to satan in the end. Do YOU really want to go there?!
Thank you so much for your reply, I knew this would sound disrespectful to God but I've been compelled to say this.
I want to believe in God with my whole heart and I do to a very large extent. so please don't get me wrong, I'm just going through a lot of confusion right now.
God has said to me look and find the answers else where if you can't take my word for it, that I am with you and that I love you deeply, that the greatest works I have given you is me your LORD God Jesus Christ your savior... But you still feel that it maybe satan talking to you and not me.
Satan is not telling us he is a liar, he's hiding in the shadows, letting us 'think' that the 'good' works in our lives are a gift from God when really it's him doing all the 'good'deeds' to trick us into believing in God. Then at the end of life we are not greeted by God as we thought we would but greeted by satan.
I am worried that satans greatest pleasure is to watch a Christian suffer more than he would a non believer.
This is just a theory that I'm wrestling with because of the thoughts I'm having (or thoughts that others are putting in my mind) I'm struggling because of the trials I have been going through that have been of enormous physical torment, from people practicing witchcraft on me. It worries me that if mere mortals can create such wickedness on me, then what is satan capable of doing to us?
I'm really sorry if I have offended you, that was really not my intention.
 
Active
How do we know that the promise of heaven isn't just one of satans sick jokes?
I would answer that question with the fact that once one has been infilled with the Holy Ghost they will be given things to do by the Lord Jesus to confirm their election.
Such as those things written of the true believer in Mark 16:17-18, not necessarily all, but some, especially speaking in other tongues or praying in another tongue for your own edification. More than likely there will be a casting out of an unclean spirit chore as well, but this will only prove to you what power you have as a born again son of God. And when these things happen especially the casting out part "How can Satan cast out Satan? For a house divided cannot stand" Jesus will confirm to you who you are in him!!!

Secondly your goal is not to go to heaven!! It is to become exactly what Jesus is!! Which is a begotten Son of God with limitless power and glory. He is everywhere and so will each son that God perfects, so how could heaven be the destination as they will have heaven within them as well as everything else.

Thirdly I see in your post you refer to Jesus as the LORD God? This is not so. Jesus the Lord who BECAME a life giving spirit AFTER HIS DEATH RESURRECTION AND GLORIFICATION. It was his Father the LORD God that raised Jesus from the dead, Jesus was a man that died, and God cannot die so they are not one and the same. They are Father and Son (TWO) entities. But they are so alike its hard to tell the difference!!

And lastly if you will read Romans 5:18 and then put that with Titus 1:2 "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began."
You just might see the big picture which is that God will cause all to become sons in their own order as that part of the price has been paid by the blood of Jesus.
Your part is simply to trust and believe that God is able, capable, and will fulfill his own word. Be patient, have faith, read, and pray.
If you have not received the baptism in the Holy Ghost then ask him for it.

The only way we receive anything from God is through faith in what he has said he will do he will! If thou canst only BELIEVE.
 
Active
How do we know that the promise of heaven isn't just one of satans sick jokes? The only reference we have to defend that the promise of heaven is only in the bible and peoples testimonies.
Where is the proof of heaven? Something solid, not just words from the bible, or predictions that supposedly came true also miracles that were performed?
What if the whole of the bible was cooked up by satan, that he over peoples minds to write the bible for him so it appears genuine. Today people can read peoples minds,put thoughts into peoples minds, can control their every day lives through witchcraft and black magic, voodoo whatever you want to call it), and trick them into thinking that god is working in their lives. It's real, trust me, I've been going through psychic attacks emotionall and physically for the past 3 years.
It's satans biggest prize (revenge) when a Christian is expecting to go to the wonders of 'heaven' when they die, only to be greeted by satan with him laughing with all his might at the result of his wicked joke (to revel in your devastation that you've spent your whole life serving Christ, believing in him, trusting in him, thinking that the things he's done for us have all along stan (devil)playing tricks on us, when all along we've been here in hell (eygpt) and there's no way out. That satan says to you, because you didn't live a sinful life, I will repay you for this, thinking that Jesus Christ the LORD is your saviour my enemy, I condem you to perpetual intolerable suffering in the depths of hell for eternity. If you had lived a sinful life and gave me pleasure, I may have been more lenient with you and reincarnated you into another sinful human life (to give me pleasure in watching you and messing with your life) and because you lived your life that way, you get the worst of all that hell has to offer (perpetual intolerable suffering for eternity). What then? I would've have rather lived a sinful life, if the consequence of not living a sinful life results in the most intolerable suffering for eternity, never even with the chance of being reincarnated back into hell here on earth as a sinful human again,as to, having spent my life following a religion of selflessness and service to God and all the rules and laws that that brings (which are tough to follow lets face it) Can anyone give concrete advice on how to confirm that God our LORD Jesus Christ is real without stating words from the Bible, after all they are just words.

Just because there is satan what's to say there is a God our LORD Jesus Christ?
I would be so grateful if someone can help me get my head round this please please please.
Hi Josephine, I've read lots of the Bible and even though it was written over 2-3,000 years by dozens of different people, it's message is so consistent it's hard to objectively dismiss. The message reads loud and clear, that love is the answer to all ills. Love God (the creator God) who loves us so much that our pricetag (His son Jesus) was well worthwhile, and He will give us an eternal destiny that defies description, just read my favourite passage in the whole Bible (Matthew Chapters 5-7) which is a resume a of how a Spirit filled godly person lives their life. Is there even a passing resemblance to Satan's persona in there?

In the Bible there are many prophecies written hundreds and thousands of years earlier that have happened and more that have yet to happen. This is a book that Satan really couldn't bring himself to write even if he wanted to and he is unable to predict the future in the same way that God does.

Do I have cast iron proof that Heaven awaits the believing Christian? No. God demands faith, if you have proof you don't need faith. It's a basic tenant of the Christian life. If in faith you believe in Jesus and accept His loving invitation of a constant and deep one on one relationship with God, He will be constantly at your side, actually living within you, a constant provider, guide and protector. Then yes, when your time is up you'll enter Heaven which I know will be more amazing than anything I can even begin to imagine.

The Bible predicts that when Satan has fulfilled God's purpose, he will be cremated alive in a lake of fire and non-believers will follow him. Why would Satan prophesy that about himself?
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10‭-‬15 NKJV

I implore you to pray to God, asking Him to reveal Himself to you, study the Bible starting with John's Gospel and find a church, might take a tour of half a dozen or so before you find one that you're happy with and begin your exploration of God with prayer. And then when you feel ready give and dedicate your life to Him and enquire about baptism.

Heaven awaits you and God can barely wait to welcome you in. God bless you Josephine, I'm praying to Him for you x
 
Loyal
@Samson2020 -- your theology is way off base. People Never become a Son of God. Jesus Christ was / still is deity. He, and He alone is the Son of God.

Born again believers Do become sons and daughters of God through Jesus Christ. Not the same at all. Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins -- His shed blood for us and His bodily resurrection. His bodily resurrection Proved that He was the Son of God. 2nd person of the trinity.

The only way a person knows they have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior is when the Holy Spirit immediately comes to indwell them. There is a peace in their heart that never goes away. And, as a result Of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - inner desires will change for the Better. Other people Will be able to notice a positive difference in the person.

The Mark passage you shared had to do with a specific period of time to specific people. Other than That -- speaking in tongues / casting out demons is Not a criteria for salvation. Every believer is given a spiritual gift at the time Of their salvation.
Speaking in tongues is to be done in a specific way and we are told to Not mess around with the demonic world. It's dangerous.

Heaven is where God / Jesus Christ has gone - ascended up To to prepare for us a place. As Per John 6.

Revelation - the book Of -- tells us that God, Himself, will bring the New Jerusalem down to earth and born again believers will dwell with Him there. Forever. That is what born-again believers are looking forward to.

Jesus Christ is the 2nd person of the trinity -- has Always been. And, He Did come to this earth -- this world -- was born to Mary and Joseph - His legal Jewish parents. His destination was the cross of calvary. He did what He came to do and then ascended back up to heaven to sit at the right hand of God the Father. He became our Savior. But the individual person Still needs to accept Him , Personally.

No one is to Ask for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It happens automatically upon a person's salvation.
 
Loyal
@Andyindauk -- Revelation tells us that satan, the beast and the false prophet will be in the lake of fire and brimstone Forever. They aren't cremated. And any one who does not accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord / Savior will end up there, also.
 
Active
your theology is way off base. People Never become a Son of God.
Isaiah 45:11 " Thus saith the LORD, the Holy one of Israel, and his Maker, ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command
ye me."
Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
Romans 8:19 "For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God."
Hebrews 12:6 "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth."
Gal 3:26 " For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus."
Eph 1:5 "He predestinated us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,"

I would ask you what is the definition of a son of God? Is it not a spirit that has life within itself, and does not need to be sustained in order to live eternally?

John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on HIM that SENT me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
1 John 5:12 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." God gave it to Jesus and you gotta get it from him.
John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name."
Tit 1:2 " In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began."

His bodily resurrection Proved that He was the Son of God. 2nd person of the trinity.
He did not raise himself from the dead it was his Father that did that which was proof that the crucifixion/resurrection process works. He was a Son but had to be perfected
BEFORE he was given ALL power in heaven and in earth. And at that glorification after resurrection he BECAME A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT(Reference 1 John 5:12 and John 1:12) These two things alone prove he was not a God prior to his resurrection. As the Father hath life within himself so hath he GIVEN to the Son to have life within himself.
And I would add one more verse for you. LUKE 2:52 "And Jesus INCREASED IN WISDOM and stature, and IN FAVOR WITH GOD and man." If he were God in the flesh then these two things would not be necessary but they happened so he was just a man that BECAME a Son of God spiritually begotten by the resurrection from among the dead.

The Mark passage you shared had to do with a specific period of time to specific people.
Then why do I know people including myself that do these things today as directed by the Lord himself?? Could it be that those who don't do it, don't have it?
This is exactly what is wrong with the institutional church today. The things that they don't know about because it hasn't happened for/to them yet they discredit as
only for the first generation of Christians. But I would have to ask who is the Church? Is it not ALL throughout the 2000 yrs that have become the elect as God made his choice among man? Therefore ALL things that a true believer is said to do happen because the Lord makes it happen for them to prove to them who they are.

No one is to Ask for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It happens automatically upon a person's salvation.
"Ye have not, because ye ask not." Also Acts 19:2-6, and Acts 8:14-17 corrects your position.

Speaking in tongues is to be done in a specific way and we are told to Not mess around with the demonic world. It's dangerous.
That must be why Paul says I thank my God that I speak in tongues more than ye all. And what you speak of is within a group setting, not alone and personal.
Eph 6:18 "Pray in the Spirit at ALL TIMES AND ON EVERY OCCASION...."
1Cor 14:4 "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself...."
1Cor 14:15 " What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and i will pray with the understanding also.....

All scripture is given for reproof, correction, and instruction??
 
Active
@Andyindauk -- Revelation tells us that satan, the beast and the false prophet will be in the lake of fire and brimstone Forever. They aren't cremated. And any one who does not accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord / Savior will end up there, also.
Hi Sue, got your correction which was actually covered in the passage I quoted in the preceding paragraph.

I have to say I'm disappointed in the way this thread has veered so off topic in the way it has. To me Josephine has a battlefield going on inside her head. She is really struggling to get her head around God's calling her, Satan is clinging onto her prodigiously putting crazy notions into her head that maybe he wrote the Bible as a work of master deception only to shock believers when they die as they find out he's waiting for them.

To her credit Josephine retracts this notion and so I wanted to put a lid on that bin by telling her that the Bible predicts Satan's final demise. Not something that Satan is likely to write about. No, the Bible is the word of God and can be trusted and accepted. Trusted and accepted are the operative words, or put another way - faith.

Can everyone reading this please stop right now, and pray for Josephine, pray that her eyes will be opened to Satan's deception and more importantly to God's invitation to her, imploring her to choose life.

Please drop the theological arm wrestle and pray that we will be welcoming Josephine into our family as our treasured and dear sister.
 
Active
One thing we all must be aware of, we must fight all the onslaughts of our enemies with “Truth” and not partial truths. “Josephine” is not looking for partial truths, it seems like she has tried that and it does not work. So the presentation that some are giving here, she has heard so many times before is not good enough. And she wants something real. This is what I have observed by listening to her words that is coming from the depths of her being. And so far by all efforts, no one has address it. “By my observation”.
 
Active
Praying for you Josephine, that you find clarity and truth and peace. God bless you.
 
Active
And so far by all efforts, no one has address it.
Words will not reveal the Kingdom of God. Only being born again of the Spirit will one truly KNOW and not just have a belief. And being born again of the Spirit is according
to Gods election. We know this.
 
Member
How do we know that the promise of heaven isn't just one of satans sick jokes? The only reference we have to defend that the promise of heaven is only in the bible and peoples testimonies.
Where is the proof of heaven? Something solid, not just words from the bible, or predictions that supposedly came true also miracles that were performed?
What if the whole of the bible was cooked up by satan, that he over peoples minds to write the bible for him so it appears genuine. Today people can read peoples minds,put thoughts into peoples minds, can control their every day lives through witchcraft and black magic, voodoo whatever you want to call it), and trick them into thinking that god is working in their lives. It's real, trust me, I've been going through psychic attacks emotionall and physically for the past 3 years.
It's satans biggest prize (revenge) when a Christian is expecting to go to the wonders of 'heaven' when they die, only to be greeted by satan with him laughing with all his might at the result of his wicked joke (to revel in your devastation that you've spent your whole life serving Christ, believing in him, trusting in him, thinking that the things he's done for us have all along stan (devil)playing tricks on us, when all along we've been here in hell (eygpt) and there's no way out. That satan says to you, because you didn't live a sinful life, I will repay you for this, thinking that Jesus Christ the LORD is your saviour my enemy, I condem you to perpetual intolerable suffering in the depths of hell for eternity. If you had lived a sinful life and gave me pleasure, I may have been more lenient with you and reincarnated you into another sinful human life (to give me pleasure in watching you and messing with your life) and because you lived your life that way, you get the worst of all that hell has to offer (perpetual intolerable suffering for eternity). What then? I would've have rather lived a sinful life, if the consequence of not living a sinful life results in the most intolerable suffering for eternity, never even with the chance of being reincarnated back into hell here on earth as a sinful human again,as to, having spent my life following a religion of selflessness and service to God and all the rules and laws that that brings (which are tough to follow lets face it) Can anyone give concrete advice on how to confirm that God our LORD Jesus Christ is real without stating words from the Bible, after all they are just words.

Just because there is satan what's to say there is a God our LORD Jesus Christ?
I would be so grateful if someone can help me get my head round this please please please.
Hi Josephine, I've read lots of the Bible and even though it was written over 2-3,000 years by dozens of different people, it's message is so consistent it's hard to objectively dismiss. The message reads loud and clear, that love is the answer to all ills. Love God (the creator God) who loves us so much that our pricetag (His son Jesus) was well worthwhile, and He will give us an eternal destiny that defies description, just read my favourite passage in the whole Bible (Matthew Chapters 5-7) which is a resume a of how a Spirit filled godly person lives their life. Is there even a passing resemblance to Satan's persona in there?

In the Bible there are many prophecies written hundreds and thousands of years earlier that have happened and more that have yet to happen. This is a book that Satan really couldn't bring himself to write even if he wanted to and he is unable to predict the future in the same way that God does.

Do I have cast iron proof that Heaven awaits the believing Christian? No. God demands faith, if you have proof you don't need faith. It's a basic tenant of the Christian life. If in faith you believe in Jesus and accept His loving invitation of a constant and deep one on one relationship with God, He will be constantly at your side, actually living within you, a constant provider, guide and protector. Then yes, when your time is up you'll enter Heaven which I know will be more amazing than anything I can even begin to imagine.

The Bible predicts that when Satan has fulfilled God's purpose, he will be cremated alive in a lake of fire and non-believers will follow him. Why would Satan prophesy that about himself?
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10‭-‬15 NKJV

I implore you to pray to God, asking Him to reveal Himself to you, study the Bible starting with John's Gospel and find a church, might take a tour of half a dozen or so before you find one that you're happy with and begin your exploration of God with prayer. And then when you feel ready give and dedicate your life to Him and enquire about baptism.

Heaven awaits you and God can barely wait to welcome you in. God bless you Josephine, I'm praying to Him for you x
Thank you Andy that brought me to tears. Thank you for taking the time to reply and I have started reading Johns Gospel. I have a church in mind that I used to attend years ago and I'm hoping it will go well with them. Again, Thank you so much.
 
Member
Hi Sue, got your correction which was actually covered in the passage I quoted in the preceding paragraph.

I have to say I'm disappointed in the way this thread has veered so off topic in the way it has. To me Josephine has a battlefield going on inside her head. She is really struggling to get her head around God's calling her, Satan is clinging onto her prodigiously putting crazy notions into her head that maybe he wrote the Bible as a work of master deception only to shock believers when they die as they find out he's waiting for them.

To her credit Josephine retracts this notion and so I wanted to put a lid on that bin by telling her that the Bible predicts Satan's final demise. Not something that Satan is likely to write about. No, the Bible is the word of God and can be trusted and accepted. Trusted and accepted are the operative words, or put another way - faith.

Can everyone reading this please stop right now, and pray for Josephine, pray that her eyes will be opened to Satan's deception and more importantly to God's invitation to her, imploring her to choose life.

Please drop the theological arm wrestle and pray that we will be welcoming Josephine into our family as our treasured and dear sister.
Thank you for your prayers Andy and for your defense of me. I was really worried after I posted, that others might be offended about what I had said but by the time I went to delete it my time had run out to do that. My heart is pounding! And I'm a little scared but God is reassuring me that everything will be okay :mad:)
 
Member
Thank you for your prayers Andy and for your defense of me. I was really worried after I posted, that others might be offended about what I had said but by the time I went to delete it my time had run out to do that. My heart is pounding! And I'm a little scared but God is reassuring me that everything will be okay :mad:)
That was totally not the emoji I meant to send. It was a smiley face.
 
Member
One thing we all must be aware of, we must fight all the onslaughts of our enemies with “Truth” and not partial truths. “Josephine” is not looking for partial truths, it seems like she has tried that and it does not work. So the presentation that some are giving here, she has heard so many times before is not good enough. And she wants something real. This is what I have observed by listening to her words that is coming from the depths of her being. And so far by all efforts, no one has address it. “By my observation”.
Thank you for your reply and knowing that I am struggling. I have found great advice here and lots to focus on! Thank you.
 
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