When Do We Go To Heaven? ... and Zombies

[B-A-C]

When my kids were small, anytime we took a drive in the car that lasted over 20 minutes or so.. inevitably they asked "Are we there yet"?

I've always thought that when we died, we immediately went to Heaven, now I'm not so sure. I don't have the answer, but I have some scripture and some questions.

1Cor 15:12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Cor 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
1Cor 15:15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
1Cor 15:16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
1Cor 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

Asleep in this context, usually means "those who are dead".

Eph 5:14 For this reason it says, "Awake, sleeper, And arise from the dead, And Christ will shine on you."
1Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

I love the Chris Tomlin song... "And I will rise, when he calls my name".

This particular incident is recorded in at least 3 of the Gospels,
Matt 22:23 On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him,
Matt 22:28 "In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her."
Matt 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Matt 22:31 "But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God:
Also see Mark 12:18-23 and Luke 20:27-36

I get the feeling here, that the resurrection is a "one time" event, not an on-going event that happens every time a believer dies.

Luke 14:14 and you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

John 5:29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

We see here that both the good and the evil will be resurrected at some point.

John 11:24 Martha *said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

Again, "the last day" seems to indicate this is a one time event.

Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

2Tim 2:18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

Heb 6:2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

Matt 27:51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.
Matt 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Matt 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.
Matt 27:54 Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!"

I've always wondered what happened to these "zombies". Did they stay alive and die a natural death later? Did they go back into their graves? Were they resurrected then and there? There is a similar story in Ezekiel 37 where Ezekiel brings the bones of an army back to life. (I'm not sure if this was an actual event, a vision or dream, or some meta-spiritual lesson).

1Thes 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
1Thes 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Thes 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

So when the rapture happens (this is usually taken as the "last day" or "the Lords day") all of the Christian believers will be raptured up to the clouds with Jesus, not only the living Christians, but the dead Christians in the ground as well. In fact those who are already dead go first.

Jesus told the thief on the cross "Today..."
Luke 23:42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"
Luke 23:43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Did he go to Heaven right away, or was Paradise a different place from Heaven?
We also see in the story of Lazarus and the Rich man, both the Rich man and Lazarus went to their respective destinations seemingly right at the time of death.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Finally in a seemingly different event (a non-believers rapture of sorts) the non-believers are taken up to Heaven to be judged as well.

So... I guess the question is... when do we go to Heaven?

P.S.
I am also told there is a "suspended animation" type theory, maybe we will lie in the ground for hundreds of years, but when we "wake up", it will seem like we just died a few seconds ago.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

BAC,I admire your determination and dilligence in seeking these things out,it's not for the faint or disheartened to wrestle with these things but for those who feel called to understanding.
You cover a lot of territory(necessary territory),unfortunately I have to add some more confusion that actually my answer some questions and bring up others.

"In that day"can be see in another way.
Jesus is "The Day", he is "The Day that the Lord has made",he is "The Day of the Lord",he is also the resurrection.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

This verse say's this "hour now is".
This is how I know I don't really understand scripture fully.
That doesn't mean I stop trying.

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

when i open my eyes and see God ill know it was time to go to heaven ..until then its Heaven on earth for me ..

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

..until then its Heaven on earth for me ..

Funny you should mention that,I'm not just clowning around with this.
The way I'm starting to see things we are in heaven now,or at least in heavenly places.
He went to prepare a place for us that where he is we may be also.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Jesus the Lamb of God died for our sins and was raised 2000 years ago.
But the Lamb of God (Jesus )was actually slain from the foundation of the world.
So we were actually raised and seated with Christ before the foundation of the world.
Heaven is his throne and the earth his footstool so maybe when we die we just lift our feet up.

Maybe what were are really waiting for is the clothing from above,that perfected version of you and I that has been seated in Christ since the foundation.

Maybe that's what being born from above means that we are the kingdom of heaven because my throne(the seat of my conscious being)is in heaven so my decrees and the way I see things on the earth are governed from the new creature in heaven and not my earth man understanding.

I have a different concept of eternity,time,past and the future I got this way of picturing things from scripture alone and science is starting to agree.
There is no past and there is no future there is only now and next.The only past is the foundation of the world.
We are always in the now and prophesying to the next.We proclaim life or death from the now and call it into the next.
Linear time and past and future are an illusion that happens because we can't handle the truth.It would shake our very idea of existence.

Instead of the future there are spaghetti models of all probabilities of events of next.
If I am going through something in life that fits a pattern in scripture I can know what happens next from that scripture.
It may sound crazy but I got all this from scripture 16 years ago and have been researching since then to be able to explain it.Science has multiverse and string theory and the particle zoo and I can find all of them in scripture.

 

[brakelite]

When my kids were small, anytime we took a drive in the car that lasted over 20 minutes or so.. inevitably they asked "Are we there yet"?

I've always thought that when we died, we immediately went to Heaven, now I'm not so sure. I don't have the answer, but I have some scripture and some questions.

1Cor 15:12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Cor 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
1Cor 15:15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
1Cor 15:16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
1Cor 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

Asleep in this context, usually means "those who are dead".

Eph 5:14 For this reason it says, "Awake, sleeper, And arise from the dead, And Christ will shine on you."
1Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

I love the Chris Tomlin song... "And I will rise, when he calls my name".

This particular incident is recorded in at least 3 of the Gospels,
Matt 22:23 On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him,
Matt 22:28 "In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her."
Matt 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Matt 22:31 "But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God:
Also see Mark 12:18-23 and Luke 20:27-36

I get the feeling here, that the resurrection is a "one time" event, not an on-going event that happens every time a believer dies.

Luke 14:14 and you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

John 5:29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

We see here that both the good and the evil will be resurrected at some point.

John 11:24 Martha *said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

Again, "the last day" seems to indicate this is a one time event.

Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

2Tim 2:18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

Heb 6:2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

Matt 27:51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.
Matt 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Matt 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.
Matt 27:54 Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!"

I've always wondered what happened to these "zombies". Did they stay alive and die a natural death later? Did they go back into their graves? Were they resurrected then and there? There is a similar story in Ezekiel 37 where Ezekiel brings the bones of an army back to life. (I'm not sure if this was an actual event, a vision or dream, or some meta-spiritual lesson).

1Thes 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
1Thes 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Thes 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

So when the rapture happens (this is usually taken as the "last day" or "the Lords day") all of the Christian believers will be raptured up to the clouds with Jesus, not only the living Christians, but the dead Christians in the ground as well. In fact those who are already dead go first.

Jesus told the thief on the cross "Today..."
Luke 23:42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"
Luke 23:43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Did he go to Heaven right away, or was Paradise a different place from Heaven?
We also see in the story of Lazarus and the Rich man, both the Rich man and Lazarus went to their respective destinations seemingly right at the time of death.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Finally in a seemingly different event (a non-believers rapture of sorts) the non-believers are taken up to Heaven to be judged as well.

So... I guess the question is... when do we go to Heaven?

P.S.
I am also told there is a "suspended animation" type theory, maybe we will lie in the ground for hundreds of years, but when we "wake up", it will seem like we just died a few seconds ago.

BAC....I perceive you are a man who seeks truth, and is not afraid to ask the hard questions. There are some things the Christian majority have believed for centuries, simply because everyone else (almost) believed them, and with minimum Biblical foundation. Instantaneous arrival into heaven at death is one of them, and as you rightly declared in another thread, the cessation of the power of the law for the Christian (particularly the Ten Commandments) is another.
You have cited several scriptures that clearly reveal other alternatives. It is the Holy Spirit who has revealed these to you. To deny their veracity is to deny Him.

In answer to your questions on
a. the "Zombies". They did not die again, but were raised into heaven with Christ and were offered as 'first fruits' to the Father just as the 'wave-offering' on the 3rd day after passover throughout the OT.

b. Paradise is the same place as heaven. Revelation plainly tells us that the throne of God is in paradise. Punctuation marks were not inspired. They were inserted into the texts by translators in accordance with their traditional understanding of the texts. Move the comma, and all makes sense. "Truly I say to you today, you shall be with Me in paradise". Jesus did not go to paradise, or heaven, that day, as testified on resurrection day to Mary. "I have not yet been to My Father". And there is some doubt as to whether the two thieves died that day. Whoever dies of a broken leg? The crucifixion process was specifically designed to prolong the suffering and postpone death as long as possible. Hence the surprise by Pilate that Jesus had died already. It is believed by many scholars that the thieves legs were broken so that they couldn't run away when taken down from the cross because of the Passover Sabbath, during which Jewish law forbade anyone from being on the cross during that time.

c. As for Lazarus and the rich man...this was a parable based on an old Jewish tradition; it is or was not a prophetic or instructional text regarding the state of the dead. Is paradise in sight of hell? Will those in their respective eternal destinations chat to each other and witness one anothers goings on?

d. When do we go to heaven? When Jesus returns. "When all that are in their graves hear His voice and are raised, and we which remain alive are caught up together with them in the clouds. And so shall we be forever with the Lord. Comfort one another with these words"

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

When do we go to heaven? When Jesus returns. "When all that are in their graves hear His voice and are raised, and we which remain alive are caught up together with them in the clouds. And so shall we be forever with the Lord. Comfort one another with these words"

This event is not necessarily confined to the "will be".

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

The hour now is,hear o Israel.It says we shall live not go to heaven.
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

If one can accept it were are already in Heavenly places seated with Christ.This is the "now is",this is the kingdom that has it's origins from heaven.

When he returns will he abandon his footstool?

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Are we waiting for a resurrection?Jesus said "I am "the resurrection".
Are we waiting for a Day? Jesus is "The Day".Let us rejoice and be glad in it.
Jesus "now is" and we can hear him and resurrect to life while we are here.

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Is he returning to remove us or to claim his footstool?

 

[farout]

BAC Hebrews 9:27 check it out. Now here is even more to think about. We are going to die. (if we are not take up) After we die we have no control over anything what so ever! So why worry or care to much as what Jesus does with us is all up to HIM! What more can we want?

 

[vitalii]

I love the Chris Tomlin song... "And I will rise, when he calls my name".

This particular incident is recorded in at least 3 of the Gospels,
On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him,
"In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her."
"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
"But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God:
Also see and

I get the feeling here, that the resurrection is a "one time" event, not an on-going event that happens every time a believer dies.

I don't think we should use feeling when it comes to getting knowledge from scripture.
Jesus said that God is not God of dead but living. This means Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were living somewhere.
Also Jesus said that Abraham was in Bosom and that " Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
If Abraham was not dead then I see no reason why we should stop to exist when we die.
So I think your feeling is wrong.

 

[B-A-C]

I don't think we should use feeling when it comes to getting knowledge from scripture.
Jesus said that God is not God of dead but living. This means Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were living somewhere.
Also Jesus said that Abraham was in Bosom and that " Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
If Abraham was not dead then I see no reason why we should stop to exist when we die.
So I think your feeling is wrong.

It was meant to be more of a question that a statement of fact, I certainly do not know the answer (read the first post of this thread).

In any case, I did not mean to infer that we ceased to exist, quite the contrary. The question was simply.. do we lie in the ground (or sea) until "the" rapture.

 

[Coconut]

When Do We Go To Heaven? ... and Zombies

As for me, I plan to live on the new earth, not in Heaven.

...and the zombies are already here.

(sorry sorry sorry the thread title has me laughing out loud!)

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Hi Coconut

As for me, I plan to live on the new earth, not in Heaven.

...and the zombies are already here

I see dead people to,they are walking around bumping into things and falling in ditches.

I see your "will be" and I raise you a "now is".

 

[Coconut]

I see dead people to,they are walking around bumping into things and falling in ditches.

I see your "will be" and I raise you a "now is".

bahahaaa...I raise you a dare...are you brave enough to throw your mantle on the table and say 'oh ye old dry bones hear the word of the Lord, stand upon your feet, and His goodness repeat! ?

I am! ~ but then it`s no risk for me, people already think i`m nuts!

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

bahahaaa...I raise you a dare...are you brave enough to throw your mantle on the table and say 'oh ye old dry bones hear the word of the Lord, stand upon your feet, and His goodness repeat!

Ohh..we seem to be betting on the same hand.Did the Lord deal your hand? Because they sound very similar after all,in that case both win and so do the humans.

I am! ~ but then it`s no risk for me, people already think i`m nuts!

No liability for me either,that ship sailed long ago.

 

[faithfulservant]

I think this is a complex issue, considering the different resurrections. I pray the LORD will give us all wisdom, insight, and understanding in this matter. In Jesus' name I pray.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I think this is a complex issue, considering the different resurrections. I pray the LORD will give us all wisdom, insight, and understanding in this matter. In Jesus' name I pray.

Amen brother.
There is much to consider and there is no neat timeline in fact there seems to be a place in all this where there is no time at all.

It's coming if your waiting for it but it "now is".
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

I can't just ignore the "now is" because it does not fit my puny concept of time.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Remember he is the God of the living.
Do we have to wait to die to live or can we hear his voice through his words now.?