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what John means in 1John 5:16 about the "sin leading to death?"

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In 1 John 5 we read:

1John 5:12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1John 5:14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
1John 5:15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
1John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.
1John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

At the beginning of this passage, John defines what he means by "death" and" life." Life is having the Son, that is to be a believing Christian. Conversely, not having life (i.e., death) is not having the Son, that is being an unbeliever. The Bible commonly uses the dichotomy of life and death to represent belief and unbelief. John repeats this association several times in this letter, including again in v.13 when he says that the church's belief in Christ has given them eternal life.

Then he teaches that believers have the confidence to approach the Lord with our petitions, and the Lord will hear us. And if the Lord hears us, John says we know we "have the requests which we have asked from Him." This is an awkward phrase in the English reflecting a difficult Greek meaning. John is saying that if the Lord grants our requests, it means that our requests were according to the Lord's desires.

Furthermore, when we intercede for the needs of a brother or sister who is sinning, we can have confidence that the Lord's assurance of eternal life for that believer is not in jeopardy on account of the person's sin. In other words, a believer's sin will be forgiven.

On the other hand, there is a sin that leads to eternal death, which is the sin of unbelief, and this sin cannot be forgiven through our intercession. We have no hope that the Lord will grant our petition that someone be forgiven of their sin of unbelief. The Lord cannot grant such a request.

Therefore, concerning a person committing the sin of unbelief, John says the Christian ought not to pray for forgiveness for that person since we know it cannot be granted. We would not be praying in the Lord's will in such a case. Instead, we should pray for the individual to believe so as to be saved and forgiven.

Finally, John says that though all unrighteousness is sin, there is a difference between the sin of unbelief and the sins committed by believers. Sin in the life of a believer does not endanger our eternal life, while the sin of unbelief prevents forgiveness.

source
What is the sin leading to death?
 
Active
Unbelief is a sin unto death, but we do need to explain why that is. We cannot just say ''unbelief, full-stop''.

Many will say it is Christian arrogance to propose their belief is correct and unbelief therein be a sin unto death.

Nobody can have this essential 'belief' unless they are called by God. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God only calls those who, open the door to Jesus Rev 3:20, sincerely repent Psalm 51:17, lay down there lives Matt 16:24, help orphans and widows James 1:27. IE Anyone showing a hatred for what is wicked and a true desire to cling to what is good Rom 12:9.

So the correct context / state of someone in unbelief is not simply someone who does not believe in the correct religion. It is someone that God cannot get through to. Someone who hardens their heart Heb 3:15 and constantly grieves the Holy Spirit who is constantly trying to reach them. This is why this sin unto death ties up with the unpardonable sin of 'cursing / grieving the Holy Spirit'. Mark 3:28-30.
 
Active
In 1 John 5 we read:

1John 5:12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1John 5:14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
1John 5:15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
1John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.
1John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

At the beginning of this passage, John defines what he means by "death" and" life." Life is having the Son, that is to be a believing Christian. Conversely, not having life (i.e., death) is not having the Son, that is being an unbeliever. The Bible commonly uses the dichotomy of life and death to represent belief and unbelief. John repeats this association several times in this letter, including again in v.13 when he says that the church's belief in Christ has given them eternal life.

Then he teaches that believers have the confidence to approach the Lord with our petitions, and the Lord will hear us. And if the Lord hears us, John says we know we "have the requests which we have asked from Him." This is an awkward phrase in the English reflecting a difficult Greek meaning. John is saying that if the Lord grants our requests, it means that our requests were according to the Lord's desires.

Furthermore, when we intercede for the needs of a brother or sister who is sinning, we can have confidence that the Lord's assurance of eternal life for that believer is not in jeopardy on account of the person's sin. In other words, a believer's sin will be forgiven.

On the other hand, there is a sin that leads to eternal death, which is the sin of unbelief, and this sin cannot be forgiven through our intercession. We have no hope that the Lord will grant our petition that someone be forgiven of their sin of unbelief. The Lord cannot grant such a request.

Therefore, concerning a person committing the sin of unbelief, John says the Christian ought not to pray for forgiveness for that person since we know it cannot be granted. We would not be praying in the Lord's will in such a case. Instead, we should pray for the individual to believe so as to be saved and forgiven.

Finally, John says that though all unrighteousness is sin, there is a difference between the sin of unbelief and the sins committed by believers. Sin in the life of a believer does not endanger our eternal life, while the sin of unbelief prevents forgiveness.

source
What is the sin leading to death?
I do not believe the reference you made can be applied to unbelievers. Although those who do not have the Son do not have life, the parameters of your reference of verse 16 in question cannot be applied to unbelievers.

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

That is why your reference cannot be applied to an unbeliever, but a brother in Christ. Your assumption that John was referring to eternal death is wrong. John was referring to physical death as the wages of sin is death in that wise as well.

We can see this warning from the Lord thru John in the Book of Revelation.
Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

So if a saved believer; a brother, is sinning a sin that leads unto death, we are not to pray that God will give him life when he is living in sin that leads to death.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ....6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We know that it is not about eternal death when we see His words how God will judge His House as He will do on that unrepentant believers at that church at Thyatira in Revelation. Let us see how He judges by how a believer builds on that foundation...

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


So what we build on that foundation determines whether or not it is a sin unto death for if it can defile the temple of God, then that unrepentant iniquity or unrepentant sin will bring about physical death the day Jesus Christ as the Bridegroom shall judge him. as it is the physical body that is destroyed and yet the spirit is still saved because that foundation remains; hence that seal of adoption can never go away.

We ask why God would leave saved believers behind to suffer death at the pre great rapture event and we can see why in Paul's instructions for the church to excommunicate an unrepentant brother.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Like wow. Then we see another reason why is for how the church is to hold fellowship will be the same for attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

So there are some things we cannot pray for in regards to an unrepentant brother when that sin by His words will be why he will be left behind for unless he repents before the Bridegroom comes.

I would like to think that we could pray for a brother that is in the midst of repenting but having going through a withdrawal from drugs or alcohol whereby he or she is tempted to go back to that sin to avoid suffering its withdrawals. I would think that would be considered a sin not unto death in praying for that brother or sister wanting to get clean, to be given life. However, an unrepentant addict would fall under that guideline of not praying for life for him.

Some believers may be afflicted and influenced by unclean spirits in regards to the sin of masturbation. Those wanting to repent, I would say falls under the category to pray for that believer; BUT those who mock and walk after the flesh, I would say that they are the unrepentant ones you should not pray for.

I may be wrong in ascertaining when we can pray for a believer and when we should not, but I believe I am applying His words rightly until He or He thru someone else should show otherwise.
 
Active
I do not believe the reference you made can be applied to unbelievers. Although those who do not have the Son do not have life, the parameters of your reference of verse 16 in question cannot be applied to unbelievers.

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

That is why your reference cannot be applied to an unbeliever, but a brother in Christ. Your assumption that John was referring to eternal death is wrong. John was referring to physical death as the wages of sin is death in that wise as well.

We can see this warning from the Lord thru John in the Book of Revelation.
Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

So if a saved believer; a brother, is sinning a sin that leads unto death, we are not to pray that God will give him life when he is living in sin that leads to death.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ....6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We know that it is not about eternal death when we see His words how God will judge His House as He will do on that unrepentant believers at that church at Thyatira in Revelation. Let us see how He judges by how a believer builds on that foundation...

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

So what we build on that foundation determines whether or not it is a sin unto death for if it can defile the temple of God, then that unrepentant iniquity or unrepentant sin will bring about physical death the day Jesus Christ as the Bridegroom shall judge him. as it is the physical body that is destroyed and yet the spirit is still saved because that foundation remains; hence that seal of adoption can never go away.

We ask why God would leave saved believers behind to suffer death at the pre great rapture event and we can see why in Paul's instructions for the church to excommunicate an unrepentant brother.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Like wow. Then we see another reason why is for how the church is to hold fellowship will be the same for attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

So there are some things we cannot pray for in regards to an unrepentant brother when that sin by His words will be why he will be left behind for unless he repents before the Bridegroom comes.

I would like to think that we could pray for a brother that is in the midst of repenting but having going through a withdrawal from drugs or alcohol whereby he or she is tempted to go back to that sin to avoid suffering its withdrawals. I would think that would be considered a sin not unto death in praying for that brother or sister wanting to get clean, to be given life. However, an unrepentant addict would fall under that guideline of not praying for life for him.

Some believers may be afflicted and influenced by unclean spirits in regards to the sin of masturbation. Those wanting to repent, I would say falls under the category to pray for that believer; BUT those who mock and walk after the flesh, I would say that they are the unrepentant ones you should not pray for.

I may be wrong in ascertaining when we can pray for a believer and when we should not, but I believe I am applying His words rightly until He or He thru someone else should show otherwise.
I disagree. But very interesting suggestion.

The sinner in 1 Cor 5 was not a Christian.

1 Cor 5:11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister.

Paul had a respectful to all style of preaching. He never singled out those who were not Christians. His preaching on sin did that.

In the OT the sin unto death was crystal clear for the Jews. Murder, adultery, rape, witchcraft all resulted in being stoned to death. Now God's heart does not change. Sin unto death is related to this.

This is where I agree with you. A person who claims to be a Christian and yet continues in these types of sin (mortal sins), pushes the envelope at the n'th degree with God. There is little to no hope remaining for them. They are guilty of Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

These people tasted of Jesus and now trample Him underfoot. They did not make Him Lord of their lives. Their sin / love of what is evil / hatred of God and what is good, is 'full measure'.
 
Active
I disagree. But very interesting suggestion.

The sinner in 1 Cor 5 was not a Christian.

1 Cor 5:11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister.
KJV has that verse in this wise;

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. KJV

Paul had a respectful to all style of preaching. He never singled out those who were not Christians. His preaching on sin did that.
The problem here is using the right Bible version and to make sure no other scripture reproves the notion for which you are suggesting; like 2 Timothy 2:18-21 where some had erred from the truth and had their faith overthrown for which "nevertheless" is applied to that former believer in that he still has His seal and that is why he is still called to depart from iniquity; indeed, Paul mentioned earlier as part of this faithful saying that if we believe not, He is faithful in that He still abides.

So I am reading 1 Corinthians 5th chapter as addressing those that are called a brother as saved believers in need of repentance; not in need of having the gospel preached to them to be saved. Indeed, putting out unrepentant believers by means of excommunication is for this result as mentioned below in that same chapter;

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So how can an unbeliever have his flesh destroyed so that his spirit may be saved in the day of Jesus Christ when he has to be saved before he dies? Therefore, Paul is addressing those in the assembly that is called a brother that is found in iniquity to repent or else be excommunicated from the church. As it was, in the second epistle to the Corinthians, Paul cited the matter again lightly because the church had taken the brother back in having forgiven him because he has repented. Paul had to assure the church that whomsoever they forgive, he has as well, because of the standing order to have that particular unrepentant brother excommunicated earlier as ordered in his first epistle to the Corinthians.

In the OT the sin unto death was crystal clear for the Jews. Murder, adultery, rape, witchcraft all resulted in being stoned to death. Now God's heart does not change. Sin unto death is related to this.
But not our responsibility to bring about that physical death. We are only limited to excommunication or withdrawing from that unrepentant person. Jesus had prophesied that some will believe they are doing God's service by killing us in John 16:1-3 and so therefore in no way can we imitate that appearance of evil by doing the same. Vengeance belongs to God alone as He will judge any one unrepentant in the church at the pre great trib rapture event as left behind to incur death.

This is where I agree with you. A person who claims to be a Christian and yet continues in these types of sin (mortal sins), pushes the envelope at the n'th degree with God. There is little to no hope remaining for them. They are guilty of Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

These people tasted of Jesus and now trample Him underfoot. They did not make Him Lord of their lives. Their sin / love of what is evil / hatred of God and what is good, is 'full measure'.
This verse is applied to the topic of knowing that there remains no more sacrifice for sins BUT still believe that there is necessity to receive another sacrifice for sins, and thus are sinning against God in that way by treating the blood of the Covenant on par with the blood of goats and bulls that bears repeating for the forgiveness of sins. If you note in the following verses, God will judge His people... so that means they are still His people, but woe to them that fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
 
Active
KJV has that verse in this wise;

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. KJV
Same meaning. I can be called a drunkard, doesn't mean I am a drunkard. If Paul was speaking of someone he was certain was a Christian, he would have said ''a fellow brother''. Not called. Not claim to be.

The problem here is using the right Bible version and to make sure no other scripture reproves the notion for which you are suggesting; like 2 Timothy 2:18-21 where some had erred from the truth and had their faith overthrown for which "nevertheless" is applied to that former believer in that he still has His seal and that is why he is still called to depart from iniquity; indeed, Paul mentioned earlier as part of this faithful saying that if we believe not, He is faithful in that He still abides.
You are now trying to convince me that OSAS is false. OSAS is true. But this is not the thread to discuss it. Perhaps start a new one?

So I am reading 1 Corinthians 5th chapter as addressing those that are called a brother as saved believers in need of repentance; not in need of having the gospel preached to them to be saved. Indeed, putting out unrepentant believers by means of excommunication is for this result as mentioned below in that same chapter;

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
That truly makes no sense. The context is, 'cast them out in the hope that the rejection / isolation will convict them to come right'. When a person is abandoned by God and the church, that reality hits home fast and causes one to properly re-visit their life choices / acts that got them into that position. The church / God just continuing with them in an open arms policy will not help them grasp their sin.

A person unrepentant in mortal sin, will not miraculously find themselves in heaven. Such a person was never a Christian in the first place. Imagine this guy mentioned in 1 Cor 5, cast out for incest. Ongoing incest. Never repents. He dies, finds himself in heaven. I think not. God is not a fool. He does not graft devils into His family. Paul could not be clearer in 1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? The 'doing' in Wrong-doing is continuning unrepentant. No amount of 'casting them out for the destruction of their flesh' will help such a person.
 
Active
Jesus had prophesied that some will believe they are doing God's service by killing us in John 16:1-3 and so therefore in no way can we imitate that appearance of evil by doing the same. Vengeance belongs to God alone as He will judge any one unrepentant in the church at the pre great trib rapture event as left behind to incur death.
John 16 1-3 All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.

I don't disagree with your paragraph here. I just want to highlight the fact that those who do this are not Christians.


This verse is applied to the topic of knowing that there remains no more sacrifice for sins BUT still believe that there is necessity to receive another sacrifice for sins, and thus are sinning against God in that way by treating the blood of the Covenant on par with the blood of goats and bulls that bears repeating for the forgiveness of sins. If you note in the following verses, God will judge His people... so that means they are still His people, but woe to them that fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
God has already judged His people. You are cherry picking a verse here. His people have been judged and passed. We are new creations. Because we passed. Would He make us new creations if we failed His judgement? 2 Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here.

Not all in church are His people Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. A Christian '''does''' the will of the Father. That is why they are a Christian in the first place.

Many blur lines between Christians and Christians. We shouldn't. God is not a fool. He cast the devil out because he knew the devil would never repent. He made no mistake in casting the devil out. Likewise He makes no mistake in grafting someone into His family. The problem lies with 'us'. We think we are Christians, but we are not. 2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you, unless, of course, you fail the test?
 
Active
@a thought,
Unrepentant believers are in habitual sin which leads to death. Which also nullifies a person's wrong interpretation of 1John 3:9 stating that a believer "does not" neither "cannot" habitually sin. The scriptures posted on this topics shows continual habitual sins of believers.
 
Active
Same meaning. I can be called a drunkard, doesn't mean I am a drunkard. If Paul was speaking of someone he was certain was a Christian, he would have said ''a fellow brother''. Not called. Not claim to be.

You are now trying to convince me that OSAS is false. OSAS is true. But this is not the thread to discuss it. Perhaps start a new one?
Actually, it is addressing the topic ; look at your verse again;

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

There is about brothers not abiding in Him, right? Any iniquity or any sin unrepentant by the believer is running the risk of having it judged and burned off of that foundation where the physical body that is the temple of the Holy Spirit will be destroyed, thus incurring a physical death. 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 .

That was the whole point for a church to excommunicate an unrepentant fornicator in 1 Corinthians 5th chapter whereby resulting in giving him unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that the sirit may be saved in the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So as the church is to excommunicate unrepentant brothers & sisters not abiding in Him and not to eat with them in fellowship, what do you think God will do for the Marriage Supper in Heaven at the pre great trib rapture event?

That truly makes no sense. The context is, 'cast them out in the hope that the rejection / isolation will convict them to come right'. When a person is abandoned by God and the church, that reality hits home fast and causes one to properly re-visit their life choices / acts that got them into that position. The church / God just continuing with them in an open arms policy will not help them grasp their sin.

A person unrepentant in mortal sin, will not miraculously find themselves in heaven. Such a person was never a Christian in the first place. Imagine this guy mentioned in 1 Cor 5, cast out for incest. Ongoing incest. Never repents. He dies, finds himself in heaven. I think not. God is not a fool. He does not graft devils into His family. Paul could not be clearer in 1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? The 'doing' in Wrong-doing is continuning unrepentant. No amount of 'casting them out for the destruction of their flesh' will help such a person.
The prodigal son did give up his inheritance for wild living and although he can never get it back, he is still son and he can still come home.

The elder son was told by the father that everything he has was his, thus not the same for the prodigal son.

There is a great loss in not being a part of the first fruit of the resurrection; they lose their place at the Supper table, they lose having a mansion in the city of God, they will not live forever like the angels that can never die.

Those being resurrected after the great tribulation are signified that the power of the second death will not be over them; meaning they can never lose their salvation to be cast into the lake of fire BUT that does imply that they can still die the physical death so they are not the same as those of the first fruit of the resurrection. Indeed, they will need to eat from teh tree of life as all those must that come after them of the coming generations during the millennium reign of Christ.

They will need a miracle from God to get past that loss since there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth like Esau over giving up his birth right for a meal, and so God will wipe the tears from their eyes of those that are resurrected after the great tribulation.

So I was not advocating for OSAS not to be true but why God will judge His House first at the pre great trib rapture event by excommunicating those not found abiding in Him to be resurrected later on.
 
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John 16 1-3 All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.

I don't disagree with your paragraph here. I just want to highlight the fact that those who do this are not Christians.

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Did you know that John Calvin supported the execution of a heretic?

Did you know that Christians were rallied to march unto Jerusalem to take it back from the Muslims? They even had a children's crusade.

So I doubt you will find any scripture that says they are not saved. Just because they do not know the Father nor Jesus when they thought they were doing God's service by killing for Him; it just means they were not abiding in Him. They can still repent but if they die or the Bridegroom comes before they had repented, that iniquity that denies Him, will wind up having them denied at the pre great trib rapture when God judges His House.

One can read 2 Timothy 2:10-13 for why former believers are still saved and why in 2 Timothy 2:18-21, they are still called to depart from iniquity so they can be received as vessels unto honor in His House. Indeed, as God enables us, we are to reach those that have gone astray that are snared by the devil in the hopes that God will peradventure to recover them as stated in 2 Timothy 2:24-26 KJV

God has already judged His people. You are cherry picking a verse here. His people have been judged and passed. We are new creations. Because we passed. Would He make us new creations if we failed His judgement? 2 Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here.

Not all in church are His people Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. A Christian '''does''' the will of the Father. That is why they are a Christian in the first place.

Many blur lines between Christians and Christians. We shouldn't. God is not a fool. He cast the devil out because he knew the devil would never repent. He made no mistake in casting the devil out. Likewise He makes no mistake in grafting someone into His family. The problem lies with 'us'. We think we are Christians, but we are not. 2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you, unless, of course, you fail the test?
Then what is God doing in judging what was built on that foundation which was laid in Jesus Christ as per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJV where the consequences for defiling the temple of God which is our bodies, gets destroyed; hence death?

That is why He warned the church at Thyatira in Revelation 2:18-25 to repent of their fornication or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation as God will judge every believer by their works with death for not repenting with His help.
 
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Did you know that John Calvin supported the execution of a heretic?

Did you know that Christians were rallied to march unto Jerusalem to take it back from the Muslims? They even had a children's crusade.

So I doubt you will find any scripture that says they are not saved. Just because they do not know the Father nor Jesus when they thought they were doing God's service by killing for Him; it just means they were not abiding in Him. They can still repent but if they die or the Bridegroom comes before they had repented, that iniquity that denies Him, will wind up having them denied at the pre great trib rapture when God judges His House.
This is beside the point. The scripture you quoted did not refer to Christians.

One can read 2 Timothy 2:10-13 for why former believers are still saved and why in 2 Timothy 2:18-21, they are still called to depart from iniquity so they can be received as vessels unto honor in His House.
2 Tim 2:10-13 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; 12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; 13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.

I am not getting the same interpretation as you do. Paul is saying in verse 10 that he wants to endure for the elect (us), so that we too may be saved (like him).

He then clairifes in verse 11 that ''if'' we have died with Him (Jesus), we will also live with Him. OSAS (Once saved always saved) through and through.

2 Tim 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

A Christian would never do this. Knowingly overthrow the faith of some speaks to false teachers. Wolf in sheeps clothing. Non-Christians with Christians.

2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

I love this verse. Especially the underlined. Just as God made no mistake in casting the devil out for eternity. He makes no mistake in grafting someone in, for eternity.

The second part of this verse is to do with our ambassadorial duties. Let's strive to be blameless. We will not be perfect. But let's be good ambassadors for God. Nothing, absolutely nothing to do with losing salvation. When it comes to departing from iniquity / being a good ambassador for Christ, the wolves and fake Christians are exposed. As I said earlier, the teaching on sin, exposes non Christians in the assembly. They were never isolated in another fashion. ''Remove the sinner who commits incest''. Mortal sins. Unrepentant. Not Christian.

2 Tim 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

This is not speaking against OSAS. It is simply stating that if one hate what is wicked, they will find Jesus / be made a vessel unto honor. Clearly stating that we each have the ability to do so. It is an exhortation to the assembly. To sinners. To Non-Christians in attendance. 'If a man'. Not 'if a Christian'.

Indeed, as God enables us, we are to reach those that have gone astray that are snared by the devil in the hopes that God will peradventure to recover them as stated in 2 Timothy 2:24-26 KJV
2 Tim 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Yet another example of the teaching on sin and works identifying the difference between Christians and non-Christians. Note the ''the servant of the Lord must''. It may as well say ''the servant of the Lord must not murder, must not commit incest''. Do you see the point I am making? Then note the then ''the Lord will give knowledge of the truth''. IE Just as James 4:8 tells us, 'draw near to God and He will draw near to you...…. ''''''cleanse your hearts / stop wickedness'''''.

The only line that is contentious is the ''that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil''. We know all the unsaved are in a snare of the devil. We also know that Christians can be in a snare of sin. IE Contention. But, then the verse says, ''who are taken captive by him at his will''. Now does that sound like a Christian? Not according to 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

So without throwing the baby out with the bath water. Let's grasp that a Christian does sin. But we have to draw a line on mortal sins and unrepentant sin. As we are ''never'' taken captive by the devil's will.

A Christian has laid their life down for God. Anything less will not qualify us to be grafted into His house per Matt 16:24.

So, based on that premise. Let's say there was this guy in the army who genuinely, selflessly took a bullet for me. Previously he bullied me. He was always ugly to me. But then, this one act of true redemption by him toward me, toward our relationship. I will allow this person in my house. I will trust his love for me and my family. As per John 15:13, he has shown the greatest act of love possible.

Now if this person occasionally swore at me. Will I kick him out? No. I would know it was temporal and a ''mistake''. Nobody except God is perfect Mark 10:18.

But, what if this person, stabbed me and sent me to icu? Will I kick him out? Yes. If his intentions were true and he wanted to do it again Why? Because he must have taken that bullet for me by accident.

Now we, make mistakes of judgement. God does ''NOT'' make the mistake of allowing a devil into His house!
 
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Actually, it is addressing the topic ; look at your verse again;

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

There is about brothers not abiding in Him, right? Any iniquity or any sin unrepentant by the believer is running the risk of having it judged and burned off of that foundation where the physical body that is the temple of the Holy Spirit will be destroyed, thus incurring a physical death. 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 .

That was the whole point for a church to excommunicate an unrepentant fornicator in 1 Corinthians 5th chapter whereby resulting in giving him unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that the sirit may be saved in the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
You coming so unstuck by taking a very literal reading of 1 Cor 5:4.

You honestly think a person who has completely and utterly laid their lives down for God. IE Committed 100% to turning the left cheek. Loving thy neighbor as thyself. Can now go on and on and on in ...raping little girls? Then, because we destroy their flesh they will instantly be saved and go to heaven?

I pray you better grasp the context of that verse.
 
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This is beside the point. The scripture you quoted did not refer to Christians.
He did not say they were not Christians; He said they did not know the Father nor Himself.

I know it is a common error among Christians today in citing that if Jesus never knew you, then you are not saved as paraphrasing Matthew 7:21-23 & Luke 13:24-30 but they would be wrong. Any saved believer that are engaged in dead works that deny Him or any work of iniquity ( which is the same as denying Him ) ( Titus 1:16 ) then He will deny them as per 2 Timothy 2:12 BUT yet even if they had erred and gone astray to the point of not believing in Him any more; He still abides in them as per 2 Timothy 2:13 . So any iniquity that is on that foundation, it will be burned away off of that foundation and thus still saved albeit they will be denied entrance to the Marriage Supper in Heaven; this is where the vessels unto dishonor in His House comes from.

So that is why the call to depart from iniquity is given even to former believers in 2 Timothy 2:18-21 so they can be received & thus transformed by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

2 Tim 2:10-13 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; 12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; 13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.

I am not getting the same interpretation as you do. Paul is saying in verse 10 that he wants to endure for the elect (us), so that we too may be saved (like him).
There is something to point out that is significant about obtaining WITH their salvation in Christ Jesus and that is that eternal glory that comes with our salvation. As you read into 2 Timothy 2:18-21 you will see that the eternal glory that comes with out salvation for looking to Him to help us to discern and to depart from iniquity IS to be THAT vessel unto honor in His House. THAT is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.

He then clairifes in verse 11 that ''if'' we have died with Him (Jesus), we will also live with Him. OSAS (Once saved always saved) through and through.
The term "if" being relevant to the readers reading this for when or if they should die since when Christ appears, those abiding in Him will be transformed to meet the Lord in the air,.

2 Tim 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

A Christian would never do this. Knowingly overthrow the faith of some speaks to false teachers. Wolf in sheeps clothing. Non-Christians with Christians.
The example cited in verse 18 about saying the resurrection has past already is not the only error out there that can over throw a Christian in their faith in Jesus Christ.

There are some that teach that the evolution theory is true and try in vain to read the Genesis account as meeting the evolutionary time table. I had worked with the son of a pastor in the past that the son admitted that his father does not believe in God but still preaches from the pulpit. It bothers the son and the wife of the pastor but the pastor maintains his pastoral position as a means for a earning a living. I had passed along a book anonymously since the son shared this in confidence with me, called "The Collapse of Evolution" by Huse, in the hopes that the Pastor would read it and to give more credence to the unchanging word of God rather than the everchanging "facts" of that evolution theory.

The evolution theory has been cited as a major cause for the crisis of faith for believers in every denomination; and yet some members here would teach that theistic evolution as being possible, unknowingly supporting a false science that causes many to falla way from the faith in the Bible and thus in Jesus Christ as well..

2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

I love this verse. Especially the underlined. Just as God made no mistake in casting the devil out for eternity. He makes no mistake in grafting someone in, for eternity.

The second part of this verse is to do with our ambassadorial duties. Let's strive to be blameless. We will not be perfect. But let's be good ambassadors for God. Nothing, absolutely nothing to do with losing salvation. When it comes to departing from iniquity / being a good ambassador for Christ, the wolves and fake Christians are exposed. As I said earlier, the teaching on sin, exposes non Christians in the assembly. They were never isolated in another fashion. ''Remove the sinner who commits incest''. Mortal sins. Unrepentant. Not Christian.

2 Tim 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

This is not speaking against OSAS. It is simply stating that if one hate what is wicked, they will find Jesus / be made a vessel unto honor. Clearly stating that we each have the ability to do so. It is an exhortation to the assembly. To sinners. To Non-Christians in attendance. 'If a man'. Not 'if a Christian'.
Unfortunately, you are not addressing what makes one a vessel unto dishonor in His House. If scripture testify that in heeding the call to depart from iniquity, one purges himself to be that vessel unto honor, then the vessels unto dishonor THAT ARE in His House are those that did not depart from iniquity. Then you can understand 2 Timothy 2:10 for how Paul wishes others obtain that "eternal glory" that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus by departing from iniquity to be received by the Bridegroom as a vessel unto honor in His House. Then the castaways.. those denied entrance to the Marriage Supper for being found in unrepentant iniquity is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are in His House still.

2 Tim 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Yet another example of the teaching on sin and works identifying the difference between Christians and non-Christians. Note the ''the servant of the Lord must''. It may as well say ''the servant of the Lord must not murder, must not commit incest''. Do you see the point I am making? Then note the then ''the Lord will give knowledge of the truth''. IE Just as James 4:8 tells us, 'draw near to God and He will draw near to you...…. ''''''cleanse your hearts / stop wickedness'''''.

The only line that is contentious is the ''that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil''. We know all the unsaved are in a snare of the devil. We also know that Christians can be in a snare of sin. IE Contention. But, then the verse says, ''who are taken captive by him at his will''. Now does that sound like a Christian? Not according to 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
Yet to recover one from the snare of the devil is to signify what? They are His for them to be recovered, right? Did not Paul prophesy that some will depart from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 ?

Did not Paul cite in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 of 2 events where the Lord will deal with the falling away from the faith ( as in God judging His House first at the pre great trib rapture event ~ 1 Peter 4:17-19 ~ ) as Paul cites that the iniquity was already at work in his day that will cause many to fall away in these latter days that we are living in.

What is that iniquity? Believing that you can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign of tongues which comes with no interpretation and/or after other sensational signs in the flesh in confusion like "slain in the spirit" and "holy laughter" movement and Pennsacola Outpouring and the Toronoto's Blessings and even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade.

How do I know that is the iniquity? Because Paul reminds the believers of the traditions taught of us in verses 13-15 as reproving this iniquity as cited before in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 KJV

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If I may interject here; this damnation is becoming a castaway at the pre great trib rapture in being damned forever as a vessel unto dishonor in His House. Believers may think that they were never saved, but being a vessel unto dishonor in His House is a damnation; like Esau having given up his birth right for a meal and like the prodigal son giving up his inheritance for wild living and although still son, can never have it back. If you disagree, you have to discern why a vessel unto dishonor are still in His House when the call to depart from iniquity and heeding that call is what makes a believer to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House.

Now I go on with the reading where Paul reproves the iniquity about a believer thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation or "again" after a sign.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Now Paul goes on in this same epistle in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 by addressing those that are at risk of being damned that are among us: as wicked unreasonable men that have not faith that do not follow after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly as those in these movements of the 'spirit" are with falling backwards or some other loss of self control and yet God is not the author of confusion 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 ; as Paul cites the Lord touching us to heed the commandment to withdraw from them, but not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still.

2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

So you may want to reconsider with Him at that throne of grace about calling any one not a Christian; we can say they are not abiding in Him as His disciple, but we cannot say they are not saved or not His when we are to admonish unrepentant believers and even former believers as brothers still.

So without throwing the baby out with the bath water. Let's grasp that a Christian does sin. But we have to draw a line on mortal sins and unrepentant sin. As we are ''never'' taken captive by the devil's will.
If believers thinks tongues are for private use as in self edification when we are to read the scripture for our edification ( 2 Timothy 2:15-16 ) or suddenly a change in mode to the Holy Spirit making intercessions for them when God wants us to pray and the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for uttering His own intercessions as per John 16:13 in ALL Bibles for those to know why only the KJV has it right in Romans 8:26-27 as His groanings are even silent as well, then they have been seduced by spirits in allowing tongues to come inbetween them and God as being taken captive by the devil's will when God wants us to pray, and know what we had prayed for so when the Son answers the prayer, we give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name for answers to prayers ( John 14:13-14 KJV )

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Would God interrupt our praying to cut in for speaking in tongues privately? No. Thus another line of discernment regarding this supernatural tongues of the world reported as such in Isaiah 8:19 as not of Him at all where God's gift of tongues are of other men's lips to speak unto the people as rpophesied to do and why tongues manifested in the assembly will always comes with interpretation to profit the body withal and the gifts are not ganed by having another drink of the One Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 12:7-13 KJV ).

A Christian has laid their life down for God. Anything less will not qualify us to be grafted into His house per Matt 16:24.

So, based on that premise. Let's say there was this guy in the army who genuinely, selflessly took a bullet for me. Previously he bullied me. He was always ugly to me. But then, this one act of true redemption by him toward me, toward our relationship. I will allow this person in my house. I will trust his love for me and my family. As per John 15:13, he has shown the greatest act of love possible.

Now if this person occasionally swore at me. Will I kick him out? No. I would know it was temporal and a ''mistake''. Nobody except God is perfect Mark 10:18.

But, what if this person, stabbed me and sent me to icu? Will I kick him out? Yes. If his intentions were true and he wanted to do it again Why? Because he must have taken that bullet for me by accident.

Now we, make mistakes of judgement. God does ''NOT'' make the mistake of allowing a devil into His house!
God is greater than our mistakes and nothing will separate us from the love of God; not even when saved believers go astray thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation after a sign of tongues, but because of this falling away from the faith, God will judge His House first to restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake, and although many will be left behind when the Bridegroom comes, He will get every last one that has His seal.

Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

As the church is to do, and even if the church is failing that, God will do and it comes full circle where regardless of the 99 in the barn safely, He will get even that one lost sheep left behind; but of course, the prophesy does paint that only a few will be found in the faith in these latter days when the Bridegroom comes.

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

That is why God is coming to judge His House first as the Bridegroom before He comes back again to earth after the great tribulation as King of kings to deal with that son of perdition and the world's armies marching against Jerusalem.
 
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You coming so unstuck by taking a very literal reading of 1 Cor 5:4.

You honestly think a person who has completely and utterly laid their lives down for God. IE Committed 100% to turning the left cheek. Loving thy neighbor as thyself. Can now go on and on and on in ...raping little girls? Then, because we destroy their flesh they will instantly be saved and go to heaven?

I pray you better grasp the context of that verse.
Did I say "we" destroy their flesh? The scripture does not say that. Those refusing to repent are excommunicated from the church, will be given unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh figuratively, but when God excommunicates, it will be literally since all saints left behind and new believers will be persecuted by Satan to the death ( those surviving the calamity of fire that will burn one third of the earth which includes Babylon hence the entire western hemisphere )
 

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