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What is your political position?

Semachiah

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
15
Shalom,

Scripture references are from,
the SET (Stone Edition Tanach) or the CJB (Complete Jewish Bible) for the OT
and the PNT (Power New Testament) for the NT unless otherwise specified.



Acts 16.1. And he then went down to Derbe and Lystra. And behold a certain disciple named Timothy was there, son of a Jewish woman, a believer, but a Greek father, 2. who was well spoken of by the brothers in Lystra and Iconium. 3. Paul wanted this one to go on with him, and so he took him and circumcised him because of the Jewish people who were in those places: for they all had known that his father was Greek. 4. And as they were passing through the cities, they delivered over to them to keep the decrees which had been judged by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem. 5. So indeed the congregations were strengthening in faith and growing greatly in number day by day.

At your first reading of this passage it may strike you as strange that Paul talks Timothy into being circumcised!
Acts 16:3. Paul wanted this one to go on with him, and so he took him and circumcised him because of the Jewish people who were in those places: for they all had known that his father was Greek.
Strange because Paul was the one who later will proclaim that when he was in Jerusalem, as we read in the 15th chapter of Acts, that when there was a dissension among the Disciples about keeping The Torah he stood in opposition to the Jews and their belief in "tradition" or legalism. He opposed them and yet here he imposes The Torah tradition upon Timothy.
Would you have done this?
Why did Paul do this?

To understand this a bit let's back up and consider who Paul was. When he was still known as Saul, what was he doing in life? Where was he headed but more importantly, how was he getting there? When Paul was still known as Saul he had been a student of a very influential member of the Sanhedrin known as Gamaliel. It was Gamaliel who stood amongst the Sanhedrin and warned them about doing much of anything to the Apostles after the High Priest had, had them arrested in the early days shortly after the resurrection of Y'SHUA...
Acts 5:34. But someone in the council got up, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of Torah, held in honor by all the people, and he ordered them to put the men outside a short time. 35. Then he said to them, “Men of Israel, pay close attention to what you are going to do to these men. 36. For before these days Theudas rose saying that he was somebody, to whom a number of men, about four hundred, attached themselves: who was killed, and all, as many as were won over to him, broke up and became nothing. 37. After this Judas of Galilee rose in the days of the census and he caused people behind him, his followers, to revolt: that one also died and all, as many as were won over to him, were scattered. 38. And now I say these things to you, you should go away from these men and let them be: because if it would be from human origin, it will be brought to an end, 39. but if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them, and you would never want to be found resisting God.” And they were persuaded by him.

This man was Paul's mentor, his teacher, his rabbi. It was via the help of this man that Paul/Saul was making a name for himself in the Sanhedrin and across Israel. It was because of this man's help that Paul was there to observe the stoning of Stephen. It was likely in a perverted sort-of way, because of this man's help that Paul was able to get the letter that allowed him to hunt down and persecute the disciples of The CHRIST. Probably not because he agreed with what Paul wanted to do but because Paul and been one of his best students and had earned the respect of the rest of the Sanhedrin as well. He had used the influence of Gamaliel so well that even though Paul stood in opposition to Gamaliel, as it pertained to crucifying the disciples of The CHRIST, he was able to convince them to allow him to be their judge and executioner.
Paul had become a "Politician!"

Paul had said what he needed to say and done what he needed to do in order to win the favor of the majority of the Sanhedrin even though he stood in opposition to his own mentor/rabbi. Even though he was standing in opposition to one of the most influential members of the Sanhedrin. The one member influential enough to stand in opposition to The High Priest himself!

I don't normally enter into politics but since this is a Presidential election year in the USA let me say a bit, please? Clinton, Obama and McCain are "Politicians!' The first thing out of their mouths is what they believe "You want to hear." Let me ask you, "What are they really saying?"
Clinton has stated that everything we have worked all our lives for is a part of the pie. Of this pie she wants to take part of what you have worked for and give it to someone else. She wants the gov't to decide who gets what and how much. What she is proposing is Communism or Socialism at best. Is that what the USA is all about?
Obama has given this platitude and that sound bite but what has he really said? He thinks that it is wrong or unfair for this or that but he wants gov't to fix it all. This again runs against the American way of Capitalism and strikes of either Communism or Socialism to some degree. One of his proposals is to give tax breaks to companies that employ Americans rather than the ones that move their plants overseas. So is he in favor of giving these tax breaks to Isuzu, Subaru and Toyota all of which have plants in Indiana? To Honda in Ohio and Hyundai and Mercedes in Alabama? This would merely increase our foreign debt in the long run as the rest of the world would own more of our money than we do. What about giving incentives to the American companies to stay in America and to retrain employees to do other things so that they can find other employment in the future, such as nursing where we are running into an unbelievable shortage in the near future?
McCain is being political too. He is virtually saying nothing and gaining in the polls. Depending on which poll you look to he has either out-paced his opponents or is even with them. One must ask how? What has he said or proposed? I really couldn't tell you. He is so far under the radar that had he not appeared on the CMT awards one might have forgotten he was still out there. He is in fact looking allot like Paul. He is waiting his turn. He is waiting to see who his opposition is really going to be and allowing Clinton and Obama to eat each other up for him.

This is what McCain has always done and this is why many call him a "Fence Walker." This is exactly what Paul did! The most noted time that Gamaliel had opposed the High Priest and the Sanhedrin had been at their highest point of anger. Paul took advantage of this and sided with them. He stood as their representative against his own rabbi! He won their favor knowing that his rabbi would not simply cut him off. He might be disappointed in him but they would still be friends. This very same principal he will later write to the assembly at Corinth when he pens...
1 Cor 9:18. then what is my reward? So that I, while proclaiming the gospel without charge, will give the gospel to them without making full use of my authority in the gospel.
9:19. For although I was free from all things I subjected myself to everyone, so that I would gain more: 20. thus I became to the Jewish people as Jewish, so that I would win Jewish people: to those under legalism as one under legalism, although I was not under legalism myself, so that I could win those under legalism: 21. to those without Torah I became as without Torah, although I was not without the Torah of God, but a subject of Messiah, so that I would win those without Torah: 22. I became weak to the weak, so that I would win the weak: I have become all things to all, so that I would save some of every gathering. 23. But I do all things because of the gospel, so that I would become His partner.
9:24. Do you not know that all the runners in a stadium are indeed running, but one takes the prize? So you are running in order that you would lay hold of the prize. 25. And everyone who is contending exercises self-control in all things, so then those would take a perishable crown, but we would take the imperishable. 26. Hence I then am running not as uncertainly, so I do not box as beating air: 27. but I treat my body roughly and I bring it into subjection, lest somehow I would become disqualified when I preach to others.


He became all things to all people in order to win their graces and be able to talk to them without offense. This is also what he did with Timothy. It is the principal he is teaching him and therefore us if we desire to be soul winners. This is what is taking place when we read...
Acts 16:3. Paul wanted this one to go on with him, and so he took him and circumcised him because of the Jewish people who were in those places: for they all had known that his father was Greek.
Let me ask you,
When you hit the proverbial streets are you offensive or a soul winner?
What is your political position?
 
Paul wanted this one to go on with him, and so he took him and circumcised him because of the Jewish people who were in those places: for they all had known that his father was Greek.

The bible is clear that Paul wanted to take Timothy (his son in the faith) along with him.....At the time Paul was preaching to the Jews.

Timothy's mother was a Jew, but his father was a Greek and as a result of this, Timothy had not been circumcised. Paul knew that for Timothy to be accepted in the Synagogue, and among the Jewish people he had to conform to their Jewish Law.Have you had a thought about Timothy? We are talking about a grown man not a baby. It would have been a very painful experience for him. We need to see the humbleness, and sincerity of Timothy....and give him credit in his desire to preach the gospel.

9:24. Do you not know that all the runners in a stadium are indeed running, but one takes the prize? So you are running in order that you would lay hold of the prize.

Absolutely

Let me ask you,
When you hit the proverbial streets are you offensive or a soul winner?
What is your political position?


Offensive or a soul winner? I am not sure about your question here?
Surely we are soul-winners as we follow Jesus

Political Position. I do not have one....I have voted for most parties in my time. Whichever impresses me at the time.

I do not worry about such, I am not really overwrought or unduly anxious.

My man is already in power. His Name is Jesus. All power has been given unto Him in heaven and in the earth.

"God is not a man that he should lie, neither the son of man that He should change His mind" "Hath He not said, and will He not perform it..........................?
 
Shalom Stephen,

The 'political question' is in respect to going to the streets as Paul and Timothy had. The whole post is concerning that relationship.

How often have you seen street witnesses that are confrontational, at best or offensive? That are more about pointing fingers than they are about really winning souls? Are more about scaring people to the cross than they are about bringing them to The COMFORTER? There is an old saying that states, "You can attract more bees with honey than with vinegar." That is the basic premise I am attempting to present here. That is why this is posted in a Bible Study area.

Timothy's circumcision is exactly what the men of the nation of Israel had to endure the first time YHVH enacted circumcision. This is also what is symbolized today in the marriage ceremony when we place a ring on our hand. We are circumcised or cut off from any other relationship with the opposite sex in this regard or to this degree. Most of the so-called church never gets that either and thus the divorce rate in the church is just as high as in the world. That however is off topic and should be kept for another discussion.
 
As I understand it, Paul had a firm position that circumcision was a good and useful tradition for Jews (who he probably saw as a cultural subset of Christians) but not mandatory for gentiles. Since he would have regarded Timothy as a Jew, his council makes sense to me.

As to Clinton and Obama- I promise you that nothing they advocate comes even close to socialism, much less communism. Go spend some time in Sweeden, then you'll understand socialism. And while I think that many of their proposals are poor answers, to suggest that government is the solution to certain problems is not anti-capitalist. I'm guessing that you enjoy FDIC protection in your bank account, and some competition in things like shipping and oil pricing. Or guaranteed food purity. That's a favorite of mine. Philosophically assuming that government isn't the answer isn't capitalism, its anarchism.

As to McCain- surely you jest. John McCain believes strongly in his goals and policies- so much so that he's offended more people than almost anyone else in the senate because he's willing to fight for what he believes in. This would include a concentrated, winning effort in Iraq and Afganistan (as opposed to mulish refusal to accept that anything is wrong and that change might be needed that marks our current administration) an absolute refusal to countenance torture, campaign finance reform, and doing something to reform the immigration problem. If you haven't heard this, I might suggest you expand your source of news.

hehe- to answer your question (you might could tell) I'm a strong McCain supporter
 
Shalom,

Really this question has nothing to do with the US politics. I have lived in the Soviet Union before so I do know Communism when I see it and when one makes proposals that say that people have the "Right" to have the government take care of them in the way of things like their health care then it is the beginning of Communism or Socialism. I will also be voting for McCain but not because I really want to, he is simply the best or the least dangerous of the three poor choices.

Paul did NOT see Timothy as a Jew. With only one parent being Jewish he was seen as a Samaritan a.k.a. half-breed. The Jews actually hated the Samaritans most of the time because they had not kept the race pure. Paul had Timothy to do this for purely political reason. This was the point I was making.
Paul did whatever it would take to win one person to the Lord, would you?
 
Paul did whatever it would take to win one person to the Lord, would you?

As long as I was able physically & it was NOT ungodly, YES.
:girl_hug: reaching out to the lost
=
 
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