Sebastian
Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2015
- Messages
- 95
Hello there guys
I am wondering if the Bible says that angels can have 'worldly experiences'.
So what do I mean with that? I mean: Lets make the following division:
-Spiritual-
-Worldly-
Worldly is apparent for all of us here: It is 'what-appears-in-any-form-whatsoever'; wordly is 'what is apparent within&without'; wordly is 'what is seen' (in the broadest sense of the word). I hope that makes it clear. Exemplified: Sight (for you now a screen in front of you, and the rest of the sight-experience); 'Hearing of inner voice' (the "sound" of the voice within which is reading up now); hearing (all the sounds which are heard); bodily sensations (body-sensus; for example how your face feels, or how your buttocks feel sitting now); 'a sense of self' (a sensation of being someone (probably a feeling located in the head, at the center now); and all the rest of the ongoing experience happening right now
That is what I refer to with the term -Wordly-. -'ongoing sensations all different sorts now'-.
-Spiritual- on the other hand, is really hard to explain: Because it is un-known (= un-worldly). It is not 'sensation', and therefore, of course, remains a deeply impenetrable mystery to "this side of the veil (wordly side)". It cannot be seen. For what is seen is wordly, and so they remain forever excluded from another; where one is, the other is not. Yet they are confusingly and deeply inter-connected and intertwined in one another -yet they remain to themselves, one never being in the other but always a-part.
So now when I've made it clear to some of what the two words (-Wordly- & -Spiritual-) stand for in this thread, I shall try to neatly convey what I'm wondering about:
Does angels (in heaven) have 'wordly experience'? Or are they "all spiritual"?
For example: A robot is 'all spiritual'; a robot does not have 'wordly experience' (lol atleast I think not. But maybe my computer experiences stuff, who really knows (but as because robots and technology are "made-up-of-dead-things", it is a crazy idea to think robots and other technology are capable of experience)).
Yet! They surely are spiritual (the non-sensation side) -I mean, they exist. They are. They are 'objective reality' (spiritual) in themselves.
Yet robots of course differ from angels, because angels are living -while robots are dead.
All above here over is written to make the foundation to the now following question, I apologise for it being so long and sometimes maybe hard-to-grasp, but I found it necessary to be the right foundation for my question:
So does the Bible says that angels have 'wordly experience'?
Thing is, for some, it seems that the bible says they obviously Do Have 'worldly experience'! For the Bible surely seem, to some, to say they do, for example in Luke 2:13:
"And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying" Which can be taken to mean that they had 'wordly experience' in the form of praising (with the emotions etc which goes with that).
Or, 2 Corinthians 11:3:
"But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ" (-I'm assuming it's an angel saying it.) Here seemingly having 'the worldly experience' of 'being afraid'.
So the bible surely speaks of angels doing things, expressing things, being hosts of various aspects (such as praise for example). But what I believe is that while they are many-sided beings, being able to "see" things, respond, do things, etc -That they are all of this in a purely/completely/fully spiritual way -having no 'wordly experience' at all.
Sort of -distinctive from robots being dead and angels alive- like a robot can do all sorts of things, and it can (via sensors and computing of different sorts) take in information ("see things"), make sounds of laughter, "think"(internal processes ("dead processes" though of course)) and be and do all sorts of stuff -yet they aren't having any 'wordly experience' of it -even though they are a robot, sitting drinking tea (or maybe motor oil lol), being in a "conversation" with a human or another robot, pointing to the dog when he takes a poo on the carpet and laugh at some joke -they are all this but they aren't hosts of 'wordly experience'.
-Now of course robots and angels differ in major ways, making the analogy (not sure if analogy is the right word) a bit flawed. But. The point of the analogy is to point out that while technological beings and spiritual beings may act, be, respond, have internal ongoings, and so on, it doesn't at all say that they are hosts of 'wordly experience', -They Might be completely of "objective nature"/"spiritual nature" -even though they cheer and laugh..
And what I deeply wish for, is that this very important subject is being "somehow dealt with" in the Scriptures: That, while it maybe doesn't say 'yes' or 'no' very plainly and clear, like "this is how it is; angels have 'wordly experiences'", but hopefully that there are atleast indicators to the Truth of this -to me atleast- fundamental profound State of Things.
Thank you.
what does the Holy Spirit the Helper speak to you??
I am wondering if the Bible says that angels can have 'worldly experiences'.
So what do I mean with that? I mean: Lets make the following division:
-Spiritual-
-Worldly-
Worldly is apparent for all of us here: It is 'what-appears-in-any-form-whatsoever'; wordly is 'what is apparent within&without'; wordly is 'what is seen' (in the broadest sense of the word). I hope that makes it clear. Exemplified: Sight (for you now a screen in front of you, and the rest of the sight-experience); 'Hearing of inner voice' (the "sound" of the voice within which is reading up now); hearing (all the sounds which are heard); bodily sensations (body-sensus; for example how your face feels, or how your buttocks feel sitting now); 'a sense of self' (a sensation of being someone (probably a feeling located in the head, at the center now); and all the rest of the ongoing experience happening right now
That is what I refer to with the term -Wordly-. -'ongoing sensations all different sorts now'-.
-Spiritual- on the other hand, is really hard to explain: Because it is un-known (= un-worldly). It is not 'sensation', and therefore, of course, remains a deeply impenetrable mystery to "this side of the veil (wordly side)". It cannot be seen. For what is seen is wordly, and so they remain forever excluded from another; where one is, the other is not. Yet they are confusingly and deeply inter-connected and intertwined in one another -yet they remain to themselves, one never being in the other but always a-part.
So now when I've made it clear to some of what the two words (-Wordly- & -Spiritual-) stand for in this thread, I shall try to neatly convey what I'm wondering about:
Does angels (in heaven) have 'wordly experience'? Or are they "all spiritual"?
For example: A robot is 'all spiritual'; a robot does not have 'wordly experience' (lol atleast I think not. But maybe my computer experiences stuff, who really knows (but as because robots and technology are "made-up-of-dead-things", it is a crazy idea to think robots and other technology are capable of experience)).
Yet! They surely are spiritual (the non-sensation side) -I mean, they exist. They are. They are 'objective reality' (spiritual) in themselves.
Yet robots of course differ from angels, because angels are living -while robots are dead.
All above here over is written to make the foundation to the now following question, I apologise for it being so long and sometimes maybe hard-to-grasp, but I found it necessary to be the right foundation for my question:
So does the Bible says that angels have 'wordly experience'?
Thing is, for some, it seems that the bible says they obviously Do Have 'worldly experience'! For the Bible surely seem, to some, to say they do, for example in Luke 2:13:
"And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying" Which can be taken to mean that they had 'wordly experience' in the form of praising (with the emotions etc which goes with that).
Or, 2 Corinthians 11:3:
"But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ" (-I'm assuming it's an angel saying it.) Here seemingly having 'the worldly experience' of 'being afraid'.
So the bible surely speaks of angels doing things, expressing things, being hosts of various aspects (such as praise for example). But what I believe is that while they are many-sided beings, being able to "see" things, respond, do things, etc -That they are all of this in a purely/completely/fully spiritual way -having no 'wordly experience' at all.
Sort of -distinctive from robots being dead and angels alive- like a robot can do all sorts of things, and it can (via sensors and computing of different sorts) take in information ("see things"), make sounds of laughter, "think"(internal processes ("dead processes" though of course)) and be and do all sorts of stuff -yet they aren't having any 'wordly experience' of it -even though they are a robot, sitting drinking tea (or maybe motor oil lol), being in a "conversation" with a human or another robot, pointing to the dog when he takes a poo on the carpet and laugh at some joke -they are all this but they aren't hosts of 'wordly experience'.
-Now of course robots and angels differ in major ways, making the analogy (not sure if analogy is the right word) a bit flawed. But. The point of the analogy is to point out that while technological beings and spiritual beings may act, be, respond, have internal ongoings, and so on, it doesn't at all say that they are hosts of 'wordly experience', -They Might be completely of "objective nature"/"spiritual nature" -even though they cheer and laugh..
And what I deeply wish for, is that this very important subject is being "somehow dealt with" in the Scriptures: That, while it maybe doesn't say 'yes' or 'no' very plainly and clear, like "this is how it is; angels have 'wordly experiences'", but hopefully that there are atleast indicators to the Truth of this -to me atleast- fundamental profound State of Things.
Thank you.
what does the Holy Spirit the Helper speak to you??
