What Caused "The Fall?"

[Tusk Barnes]

Reading through Genesis, again, because it's one of my favorite books. and the question occurs to me...


What exactly, was the first sin and who did the sinning?

Here's the Command of God to Adam...

Genesis 2:15-17 (ESV)
15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”



And here is where the Fall occurs...

Genesis 3:1-7 (ESV)
3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.
He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.


So...What was the sin, and who did the sinning?

 

[JDFree]

"What exactly, was the first sin and who did the sinning?"

The sin was SELFISHNESS, and the sinning was done by the whole entire world, which happened to be Adam & Eve.

 

[JDFree]

We see that God first created Adam, and then Eve. This forever established the hierarchy of male/female relationships: that man was ordained from the beginning as head of house, to lead the wife into all good things of God.

We find Eve and Adam, wandering in the Garden of Eden one day. Eve was leading ahead of Adam and approached a tree: the one and only thing in all of creation forbidden by God. Here we see Adam already fallen behind of God's Will, because Eve was leading him rather that he leading her by God's design. The woman was then not mindful of God, another error. In that, she was easily beguiled by the beautiful serpent and enticed to eat the fruit. Lust of SELF caused her to take to herself and eat.

Adam was guilty of further sin during this. He watched but did not stop her, so failed in his patriarchal duty and responsibility ordered by God. Then he committed a well known sin of SELF, covetousness: he SELFISHLY desired what Eve had! He then SELFISHLY took of the same poisoned Fruit of Selfishness and ate. It was an empty meal because all they had feasted upon was SELF, and its empty rewards of selfish pleasure in this world. It was the Fruit of Selfishness picked from the Tree of Self, eaten in Selfish Greed and Selfish lust & desires.

In actuality every single thing that God had desired of them was rejected in the sin of SELF: fellowship with God, having God first in their hearts, thankfulness to God, honoring God's ordained order, God's plan for the families of the world, and even failing in thankfulness to God for their lives. Eve should have been thankful for her creation from Adam, rather than demanding to take dominion over him as leader. Adam should have joyfully taken responsibility for his family and the safe keeping of his wife but he failed miserably and dishonored God's gift, even ruining it for all of physical time.

The master of deceit sums up the nature and type of all sin very well, described in Isaiah 14:12 "I WILL!" instead of God's Will. When we turn only to our own will, our own interpretation, our own feelings, our own viewpoints, our own intellect, our own desires, our own comforts and our own lusts of self we are guilty of sin to the uttermost and we instead of wise are become fools. Such as these God will not even allow into His presence, and casts them away into darkness without His Light forever. They earn the full reward for all they ever wanted, and then see how little it is: SELF!

 

[Tusk Barnes]

The sin was SELFISHNESS, and the sinning was done by the whole entire world, which happened to be Adam & Eve.

Avoiding SELFISHNESS was not the commandment God gave Adam, though. It was to not eat the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. How could Adam or Eve have known that selfishness was evil?

For all intents and purposes, eating the fruit was the only thing they could have possibly done wrong in the Garden, right? They could have done anything else they wanted. They could have gotten drunk. They could have worshiped idols. They could have murdered. And nothing would have happened, because God didn't command them not to, and they wouldn't have known if it was Good or Evil yet, so long as they avoid that darned Tree.

I mean, even in Genesis 3, we have Eve lying before she eats the fruit...or at least bearing false witness of God, as she misstates His command to the serpent. But that's not the first sin, is it?

Also peculiar, according to Genesis 2, Eve wasn't created until after the Command was given to Adam, so isn't it possible that Adam was the one who bore false witness first, and misinformed her.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

We find Eve and Adam, wandering in the Garden of Eden one day. Eve was leading ahead of Adam and approached a tree: the one and only thing in all of creation forbidden by God. Here we see Adam already fallen behind of God's Will, because Eve was leading him rather that he leading her by God's design.

Hold on there. We have two people taking a walk, one woman and one man, and because the woman is in front, you're calling a violation? How is a man supposed to "pursue" a woman while also taking the lead? Pursue means to follow or go after. Lead means the opposite.

The woman was then not mindful of God, another error. In that, she was easily beguiled by the beautiful serpent and enticed to eat the fruit. Lust of SELF caused her to take to herself and eat.

The Bible says that Eve "saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes." This means it looked tasty. How is that lust of the self? That just seems like a really childish way to make a decision.

Adam was guilty of further sin during this. He watched but did not stop her, so failed in his patriarchal duty and responsibility ordered by God. Then he committed a well known sin of SELF, covetousness: he SELFISHLY desired what Eve had!

Again, covetousness was not against the Law, because there was only one Law...Don't eat this fruit. And, I'm sorry, but "took?" Again, this is not what the Bible says. It says, "and she also GAVE some to her husband." Sounds pretty unselfish to me.

He then SELFISHLY took of the same poisoned Fruit of Selfishness and ate.

What book are you reading? The Fruit was of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

It was an empty meal because all they had feasted upon was SELF, and its empty rewards of selfish pleasure in this world. It was the Fruit of Selfishness picked from the Tree of Self, eaten in Selfish Greed and Selfish lust & desires.

Wow. Really, what book are you reading?

In actuality every single thing that God had desired of them was rejected in the sin of SELF: fellowship with God, having God first in their hearts, thankfulness to God, honoring God's ordained order, God's plan for the families of the world, and even failing in thankfulness to God for their lives. Eve should have been thankful for her creation from Adam, rather than demanding to take dominion over him as leader. Adam should have joyfully taken responsibility for his family and the safe keeping of his wife but he failed miserably and dishonored God's gift, even ruining it for all of physical time.

Your misogyny is rank. I really don't think Eve had any intentions of dominion. She looked at the fruit, saw it was pretty, was told she'd be wise, and she ate it. Then she GAVE it to her husband. She wasn't trying to dominate him. She was sharing with him.

The master of deceit sums up the nature and type of all sin very well, described in Isaiah 14:12 "I WILL!" instead of God's Will. When we turn only to our own will, our own interpretation, our own feelings, our own viewpoints, our own intellect, our own desires, our own comforts and our own lusts of self we are guilty of sin to the uttermost and we instead of wise are become fools. Such as these God will not even allow into His presence, and casts them away into darkness without His Light forever. They earn the full reward for all they ever wanted, and then see how little it is: SELF!
[/SIZE][/SIZE]

How is God any different?

 

[JDFree]

Avoiding SELFISHNESS was not the commandment God gave Adam, though. It was to not eat the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. How could Adam or Eve have known that selfishness was evil?

For all intents and purposes, eating the fruit was the only thing they could have possibly done wrong in the Garden, right? They could have done anything else they wanted. They could have gotten drunk. They could have worshiped idols. They could have murdered. And nothing would have happened, because God didn't command them not to, and they wouldn't have known if it was Good or Evil yet, so long as they avoid that darned Tree.

I mean, even in Genesis 3, we have Eve lying before she eats the fruit...or at least bearing false witness of God, as she misstates His command to the serpent. But that's not the first sin, is it?

Also peculiar, according to Genesis 2, Eve wasn't created until after the Command was given to Adam, so isn't it possible that Adam was the one who bore false witness first, and misinformed her.

If one studies the root of the word evil it is found to come from 'broken' or 'being broken', 7451 and 7489 in Strong's Concordance. Their sin was to break fellowship with God, turning away from Him to self, breaking the relationship. That was and is sin, selfishness and evil.

Are you trying to suggest that neither Eve nor Adam could have had any idea that it was wrong to break God's command, spoken directly to Adam and recited by Eve to the serpent?

Anything else that Adam or Eve could have done to destroy fellowhip with God would have been evil, and sin. If either Adam or Eve had committed murder it would have ended the human race.

We cannot know for a surety at all that Eve was lying when she repeated the command to Satan. Possibly that's how Adam explained it to her, or maybe God explained it to her and it isn't written in scripture. God met with Adam daily and yet we don't have transcripts of the conversations.

Rather than spending time searching continuously for faults, extremely difficult questions or seeming incongruities in the Bible it's far better to search for what is right and true.

 

[JDFree]

1] Hold on there. We have two people taking a walk, one woman and one man, and because the woman is in front, you're calling a violation? How is a man supposed to "pursue" a woman while also taking the lead? Pursue means to follow or go after. Lead means the opposite.


2] The Bible says that Eve "saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes." This means it looked tasty. How is that lust of the self? That just seems like a really childish way to make a decision.


3] Again, covetousness was not against the Law, because there was only one Law...Don't eat this fruit. And, I'm sorry, but "took?" Again, this is not what the Bible says. It says, "and she also GAVE some to her husband." Sounds pretty unselfish to me.

4]What book are you reading? The Fruit was of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.


5] Wow. Really, what book are you reading?



6] Your misogyny is rank. I really don't think Eve had any intentions of dominion. She looked at the fruit, saw it was pretty, was told she'd be wise, and she ate it. Then she GAVE it to her husband. She wasn't trying to dominate him. She was sharing with him.


7] How is God any different?

1] Who said anything about pursue? Adam failed to lead, or care for Eve who was given to him to care for by God, and did not protect her or prevent her from eating the fruit, so he did indeed fail in his position ordained by God.

2] I don't for a moment think you cannot grasp the concepts here. How is that lust of self? Simple: God forbid it and in lust and desire, in self, she broke the simple command.

3] I said that covetousness was a well known sin, which it is, so no error there. You are simply studying for errors instead of seeking after truth. Took? Yes. One may be offered something they should not receive, but they have not erred until they physically take it. Is that so complicated? What 'sounds pretty unselfish' to you sounds like trying to get someone else to share the blame for a crime to me, which is also further selfishness.

4] I'm reading the King James Version of the Holy Scriptures, also known as the Word of God, which describes Adam's and Eve's selfishness in the garden of Eden; which selfishness caused the fall of mankind. You see, they thought they knew so much better than the Word of God, but in fact they did not, and paid for it eternally even though they were warned.

5] What's your real point or ulterior motive within the insults, hmmmm? On the one hand you are quick to show your erudition, cleverness, sharp wit and scholarly skills; yet on the other you feign confusion and puzzlement over obvious things of metaphors.

6] I see your literary skills suddenly returned for this section of your post. I'll have to look up misogyny. Oh, I see! According to Webster's you're now accusing me of hating women? Because I said "Eve should have been thankful for her creation from Adam, rather than demanding to take dominion over him as leader."?? Why shouldn't she have been thankful to God for her creation from Adm's rib, instead of insulting God and doing the one single thing He had forbidden? As for her taking dominion in the situation; you really cannot see that she took the lead in the procession and also in the events? You actually cannot see that she took dominion by boldly breaking God's Law? My seeing this makes me a hater of women? Tell me, do I kick my neighbor's dog also, or spit on store windows?

7] Regarding your last question as to how is God any different, I won't even try to unravel what your specifically referring to or driving at or challenging this time. All I know is that God is different from me because He is God, and I am not. That distinction seems to have escaped your understanding.

By the way, I have now tired of playing 20 questions or stump the chumps. I'm more than happy to answer any genuine inquiry or to help with honest questions related to things of God. But I have no intention of running around in circles tossing water on fires someone else has built. Let them put out their own flames if they can....

 

[Hekuran]

I think selfishness is pretty close to the mark. The serpent's suggestion to Eve was that God was withholding something good from her by forbidding her to eat of the tree of knowledge, and the promise of the serpent was that she would become like God.

The original sin - and the root of all sin - is rejecting God's authority and replacing it with our own.

Adam and Eve succumbed to the temptation of selfishness by eating the fruit.

To say that Adam and Eve could have committed murder without sinning is to fundamentally misunderstand the Genesis story. The story of Cain and Abel in the following chapter begins to illustrate the way sin grows. The motivation for murder there was anger.

In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve lived in a state of innocence, where there was no occasion for anger, jealousy, greed or any of the other things that lead to murder.

Tusk Barnes, would you be able to answer your own question, "what was the first sin and who did the sinning?"

 

[Davy]

Hi. Tusk Barnes: You asked an interesting question, "What exactly, was the first sin and who did the sinning?"

Jesus himself revealed the first ever sin was actually committed by Satan, the father of the lie, (John 8:44) and that lie was to claim God was lying about what would happen if Eve was to eat the fruit of the tree. (Genesis 3:4)

The motive for that lie was in fact pride on Satan's part. (1 Titus 3:6) The dirge recorded at Ezekiel 28:12-19, though directed to the human "king of Tyre," evidently parallels the course taken by the spirit son of God Satan who first sinned.

So the first ever sin or transgression was a lie, and it was committed by Satan through a serpent to Eve in the garden of Eden.

 

[The Robster]

What caused the fall? Simply put, doubt and unbelief. Believing that they somehow were missing out on something by being told they couldn't eat from one particular tree. That's the devil for you. Always making people think they are missing out or that they need more or that they don't have everything God says they have.

 

[StopPolloition]

The only way to gain insight into scripture is to use scripture. Most of your input, JD is completely non-Biblical. Adam and Eve were created as equals. It was only after their fall that Adam and by extension the husband (not men in general) was given dominion. The assertions of Eve wanting to express dominion or whatever smack of the legends of Lilith.

Further, if one must point to the origin of sin, one must look at the pride of Lucifer. Finally, man fell because although man was created innocent and good, man was not perfect. (Ezekiel says Lucifer was perfect at one point but that discussion may be beyond the scope of this point for now).

Our interpretations of Eden and Adam's state pre-fall reach this conclusion but it doesn't have any biblical support; you'd really have to coddle together several scriptures to make this argument. (2 Tim 3:17 speaks of the perfection of the redeemed man but this is Christ's righteousness applied to man not in innate quality). So long as the potentiality to sin existed in man, he would not be perfect. And so long as that potentiality was yet to be expressed, Satan would be there.

The purpose of God was to express His nature in His creation and as a result be glorified. Our God's name (Jesus) means salvation so He must needs have manifested this salvation according to His will (which always works in conjunction with His nature). In order to be savior, there had to be someone who needed to be saved. (Akin to God creating man to express the element of His character that can be summed up in love; God is love. Although God is all-sufficient and wasn't compelled by a need to create man, He does align Himself unswervingly to the attributes of His character. Because He is love, He created man to love-not because He needed to be loved).

So long as there were creatures who were not God, the potential to sin existed and had to be actualized. When we are at last in His presence, we will have His righteousness so we will be unable to sin.