What about Judas?

[Apple]

I hope that it is OK to ask this question:

What about Judas?

I had always thought that Judas was the bad guy in the Easter story.

Well, I have been advised to read through John´s gospel, but as it is Easter time, I decided to jump a few chapters and go straight to the Easter story.

Well, last night I read what happened on Thursday evening and once again I am confused.

I have read in another thread on this forum that Jesus knew that he was going to die, that it was all set out in a plan of God long before it happened.

If I have understood that correctly, then Judas was part of the plan which couldn´t have happened if Judas hadn´t betrayed Jesus.

Ummmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now that paints Judas in a different light, doesn´t it?????

Was he such a bad guy or was he in fact just doing God´s will?

 

[ladylovesJesus]

Matthew 26

Judas Agrees to Betray Jesus
14 Then one of the Twelve—the one called Judas Iscariot—went to the chief priests 15 and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16 From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over.

The Lord's Supper
17 On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

18 He replied, "Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, 'The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.' " 19 So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.

20 When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21 And while they were eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me."

22 They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, "Surely not I, Lord?"

23 Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"
Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."

Jesus Arrested
47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him.

50 Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."

Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

55 At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

You see sadeyes the scriptures had to be fulfilled. It is good that you are reading the Easter story at this time of year too. Well done sister.

Jesus was obedient and without sin, so He did what His Father wanted. Always seeking to do His Father's will.

You can read the Easter story in all the gospels and they will read a little different but still tell the story of how Jesus was betrayed and knew He would be.

God bless

Love in Christ :rainbow: :rose:

 

[Apple]

Thank you for the replies. I was not trying to judge Judas and I am certainly not sitting here wondering if he is in heaven or hell.

I am more concerned about what God could ask me to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have I missed your answer in your replies?

We always think of Judas as the bad guy for betraying Jesus, but what I was wondering was whether or not this was just part of God´s plan. If it was , we shouldn´t be so harsh on Judas, should we?

If we accept that it was all in God´s plan that Jesus would be crucified, then Judas was just a part (and rather a significant part) of God´s plan.

- But then in Matthew 26:23, it says that it would have been better if he hadn´t been born (rather than to betray Jesus).

Ummmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Faithful Son]

Peter in Heaven
and Judas in Hell

Both Peter and Judas committed the same sin. They both denied their Lord and Master.

But why did one go to heaven, and one go to hell?

The Gospel writer Matthew is careful to compare and contrast the fall of Peter and Judas. Both men failed badly. The fall of Peter was temporary, while the fall of Judas was permanent. One is in heaven, and the other is in hell.

Both men confessed their sin and failure, but only one repented and put his faith in Christ.

Somewhere in Judas’ life, he took an evil turn that eventually resulted in rejection of Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior and eventual suicide. One bad attitude toward Jesus led to another, and a pattern of rejection and bitterness must have led to the ultimate rejection of Jesus.

In fact, it was prophesied in the Old Testament that a person close to Jesus would lift up his heel against Him (Psa. 41:9; Jn. 13:18; Acts 1:16). He was appointed to this end from the beginning (Jn. 17:12).

After Judas sold Jesus for thirty pieces of silver, the price of a common slave (Zech. 11:12; Matt. 26:14-16), he purchased a field with the money (Acts 1:18-19). When the “good opportunity” came, he acted on his evil intent and delivered Jesus to the Jewish authorities in the Garden of Gethsemane (Matt. 26:46-50). After it happened he felt a sense of remorse realizing what he had done, and declared to the religious leaders that Jesus was innocent (27:1-5). Judas tried to atone for his own sins and failed. Then he went to the field and hanged himself.

Judas betrayed Jesus because he did not love Him. He only cared about himself and his personal agendas (John 12:6).

Judas confessed his sin without repentance. There was no radical change in his mind that resulted in a change from spiritual death to spiritual life through faith in Jesus Christ. True repentance would have turned him to Jesus for forgiveness.

On the other hand, there is Peter who had also been with Jesus, and likewise fell. We will too if we do not learn his lesson in Luke 22:31-32. “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

Peter loved the Lord Jesus. He tried to defend Jesus in the garden when the soldiers arrived (Matt. 26:50-54). In fact, Peter failed because he was in a situation that he would not have been in if he had not loved Jesus. What happened to Peter still happens to the strongest of Christians today.

Peter did not believe Jesus’ warnings (v. 31; Zech. 13:7). “This very night you will all fall away on account of Me.” Very emphatically, over confident Peter contested, “I will never fall away” (v. 33). Jesus repeated the warnings in even stronger terms, “Truly I say to you that this very night, before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times” (v. 34). Peter got arrogant saying to Him, “Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You.” All the disciples said the same thing too (v. 35).

Peter knew the same thing you and I know. “Jesus is never wrong, never confused, never mistaken.” Peter thought he knew better than Jesus! If we expect to win in the spiritual warfare we had better determine early on in the Christian life to trust Jesus in everything and not explain away His Word. Peter fell that night with the slightest provocation when a servant girl tripped him up (Matt. 26:58, 69-75).

Perhaps it would have been different if Peter had remained in the company of his compassion and Christian brother, John.

Peter responded with increasingly strong denials to the questions of bystanders in the courtyard of the high priest. His denials were even filled with cursings and oaths before it was over (Matt. 26:70-74).

At the moment, Peter denied Jesus the third time a rooster crowed, and Jesus “turned and looked straight at Peter” (Lk. 22:61). Peter realized what he had done and rushed out and wept bitterly (Matt. 26:75; Mk. 14:72; Lk. 22:62).

Peter learned the lesson that Jesus “is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them” (Heb. 7:25).

It is easy for us to point our fingers at Peter and Judas, but what about own own denials of Christ in the workplace, school, public arena, etc.? What about when he bids us come and follow Him and we halt, or go in another direction? He invites us to join Him in what He is doing but we don't step out by faith and follow.

God does not compare us to Peter or Judas, but to His Son who was obedient even unto death. We all fall short of His obedience.

There is only one person who can make atonement for our sins, and that is Jesus Christ. Only His shed blood will make atonement for our sins and free us from our guilt. There is no hope for us if the blood of Jesus Christ does not wash us of all our sins. In the death of Jesus there is salvation for all who will call upon His name. “What can wash away my sin?” Nothing but the blood of Jesus Christ.”

Judas turned his back on Jesus who was his only hope.

Peter repented and turned to Jesus and found hope.

We do well to heed the words of Peter and learn from his experience. “Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you” (2 Peter 1:12-11).

Selah!

Message by Wil Pounds (c) 2006

The above is a contrast of Judas against the Apostle Peter. Scripture shows that Judas betrayed Christ, not by an act or even the will of God, but by the power of satan.

It is irrelevant to believe "maybe's" regarding this matter and judgment has already been made by God. Judas is in hell, period. He will not join the other Apostles on the 12 thrones of heaven and he will not share in a glorified existence with Jesus.

Judas was a failure, he was the biggest hypocrite in history, worse than the Pharisees, because he lived a lie, from day one.

Judas was a thief, he constantly stole money from the treasury of Jesus and His disciples, as he was placed in charge of the money box:

John 12:6
Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.

He was a failure, he could not even kill himself by hanging himself, his true death was that of disgrace:

Acts 1:17-19
17"For he was counted among us and received his share in this ministry."

18(Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out.

19And it became known to all who were living in Jerusalem; so that in their own language that field was called Hakeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

We don't need to judge Judas, for God has judged him already.

God bless
Much love
teraside

 

[noelgae]

Brother terraside,

I was wondering which scripture exactly spcifies that Judas went to Hell... also, where do the Gospels indicate it? It's a sincere questions, I truly do no see it.

God Bless,
Noel Gae

 

[Faithful Son]

Brother, I see no specific scripture that speaks of Judas being cast into hell, but you have to ask a similar question.

Does the Bible note anyone else that went to hell and stayed there?

There's not much reference to it. Concerning the fact that Judas' betrayal was prophecised hundreds of years before the coming of Christ does not validate that this was God's will, the same as the prophecies regarding the Anti Christ.

If the Bible prophecies an event, is God the catalyst for that event or does He make it known? He makes it known so that we may understand and comprehend.

Think about it, betrayal of the Son of the Most High. Would a betrayer, someone who commited suicide after betraying God really be capable of entering Heaven?

It's not even disputable in my mind, there is no support for it, especially hearing the voice of God saying it: "Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.""

Jesus Himself said it would be better for Him had he not been born, what more do we need?

If you look at the history regarding the disciples of Jesus, which there are many books available, one which I would recommend is "Twelve Ordinary Men". You will see and realise through the viewpoint of God that there is no way that Judas could enter heaven.

He lived a lie for at least 3 years of his life with Jesus, saying lies, eating food with the twelve, walking beside Jesus and only to turn around and betray God for money.

This is happening to this day, many so called followers are walking this road, but God says "it would be better had you not been born"

This is what Peter had to say about Judas, it is not my words. If you read it you will see that God has cursed Judas, not because God allowed Judas to betray Jesus, but because satan planted the seed and Judas let it grow.

Acts 1:15-22
15In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus— 17he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."

18(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

20"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms,
" 'May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,' and,
" 'May another take his place of leadership.' 21Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."

How does a true disciple of Jesus live?

Matthew 16:23-25
23Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

24Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.

Reading the above removes all doubt in my mind that Judas could be in heaven.

God bless
Much love
teraside

 

[noelgae]

Brother teraside,

Now I understand why you feel Judas went to hell. Yet, my heart is somewhat troubled because the reasoning for that conclusion contradicts the following scriptures:

"If righteousness could be gained through the law," Paul wrote, "Christ died for nothing!" (Galatians 2:21). The only alternative, as he says in this same verse, is "the grace of God." We are saved by grace, not by keeping the law.

As we all now, Judas broke probably broke more laws than we can count. But we do not know if he was NOT saved by grace.

What I am trying to understand is this: are we saying that Christ's salvation is not greater than the sins of this man?

IF (and only IF) Judas had been saved (like any Christian), then would that mean he is in hell, or in heaven?

It's not even disputable in my mind, there is no support for it, especially hearing the voice of God saying it: "Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.""

But this scripture does not talk about salvation itself. What Judas did was probably the worst sin any man could ever commit, and for such a person's conscience, life and earthly consequences, it would have been better for him to be not born at all. Yet, is even this great sin greater than what we have received from Christ's sacrifice?

I want to make it clear that I am NOT implying that Judas went to heaven. I am also not implying he went to hell. Nor am I debating anything, and I beg you my family in Christ, not to think of me in a negative way. All I am saying is that we don't know where he went, and it would be wrong to conclude that he went to Hell. To do so, contradicts what the Bible preaches about our Saviour and the salvation he gives us.

Also, Peter, who we all love, tried to prevent Jesus' crucifixion and was called "Satan" by our Lord. Peter, who was not mindful of the will of God, was restored. Was it not Jesus who said, ""For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother." (Matthew 12:50)

We are discussing things that we do not know... in relation to where Judas went. What matters is the possibility that even the greatest sinner, Judas could have been saved if he had accepted Christ. The Bible mentions no such thing, so we will only know when we too go to heaven.

God Bless!
Noel

 

[Faithful Son]

I appreciate your input brother. Thank you for providing Scripture.

God bless
Much love
teraside

 

[monkeys]

The above is a contrast of Judas against the Apostle Peter. Scripture shows that Judas betrayed Christ, not by an act or even the will of God, but by the power of satan.

It is irrelevant to believe "maybe's" regarding this matter and judgment has already been made by God. Judas is in hell, period. He will not join the other Apostles on the 12 thrones of heaven and he will not share in a glorified existence with Jesus.

Judas was a failure, he was the biggest hypocrite in history, worse than the Pharisees, because he lived a lie, from day one.

Judas was a thief, he constantly stole money from the treasury of Jesus and His disciples, as he was placed in charge of the money box:


He was a failure, he could not even kill himself by hanging himself, his true death was that of disgrace:



We don't need to judge Judas, for God has judged him already.

God bless
Much love
teraside

Teraside,

I am truly surprised by your comment. None of us can decide or judge if Judas went to heaven or hell. It does not state that anywhere in the Bible if he went to Heaven or hell, so we should not assume about such matters.

Judas could have gone to Heaven according to John 3:16, but only our Heavenly Father will know for sure.

About what you were asking Sadeyes, I cannot speak for God...nor can I understand what He does. It is possible that the Lord used Judas to do this. Because it is true that Jesus knew all along that Judas would betray him. For example, the story of Job...the Lord has His mighty hand in that situation all along.

God is mysterious, when we see Him in Heaven we will ask Him!

Many Blessings,
monkeys

 

[ladylovesJesus]

None of us can decide or judge if Judas went to heaven or hell. It does not state that anywhere in the Bible if he went to Heaven or hell, so we should not assume about such matters.

I found this in the Bible

John 17
11And [now] I am no more in the world, but these are [still] in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep in Your Name [[a]in the knowledge of Yourself] those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We [are one].

12While I was with them, I kept and preserved them in Your Name [in the knowledge and worship of You]. Those You have given Me I guarded and protected, and not one of them has perished or is lost except the son of perdition [Judas Iscariot--the one who is now doomed to destruction, destined to be lost], that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

God said it.

God bless :rainbow: :rose:

 

[noelgae]

I found this in the Bible

John 17
11And [now] I am no more in the world, but these are [still] in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep in Your Name [[a]in the knowledge of Yourself] those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We [are one].

12While I was with them, I kept and preserved them in Your Name [in the knowledge and worship of You]. Those You have given Me I guarded and protected, and not one of them has perished or is lost except the son of perdition [Judas Iscariot--the one who is now doomed to destruction, destined to be lost], that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

God said it.

God bless :rainbow: :rose:

Sister LLJ, this is one of my favorite scriptures. This prayer touches me so much that I find tears in my eyes sometimes. Isn't Jesus such a wonderful Lord. Thank you so much for pointing this one out, I am glad you did.

11) I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. 12) While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 13) "I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.
John 17:11-13

Regarding Judas however, even here, we can not simply assume that the word "destruction" means "eternal destruction". This is why I said, we can't know where Judas went. Only, God knows that. By saying "doomed to destruction", our Lord may have simply been referring to this:

(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.
Acts 1:17-19

If my guts spilled out, that would be pretty destructive I think. In the context that Jesus is speaking in, it seems to me like he is talking about the world. Especially because he mentions the word "world" so much. But, I don't know for sure. Yet, read this:

3) When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 4) "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood."
"What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility."
Matthew 27:3-4

When he said "I have sinned", so God may have accepted this as a confession and repentance of the sin, so again... we can not know God's judgment on this. It all depends if Judas accepted Jesus as his savior or not, and that is not recorded anywhere in the Bible. It is still not biblical to reach a conclusion about where he went.

David sinned by adultery and Moses sinned by striking the rock. They both paid the consequences in the world, but does that mean they also went to hell? No right? So again, we can't know for sure about Judas.

I just want to make it clear again that I am not saying he went to heaven. John 17 may actually be talking about his eternal fate, of course. The reason I am saying we should reach a conclusion on this is because there is no one past, present or future that Jesus can not save, if they accept him.


This is the only message I am defending:

John 3:16 (New International Version)

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

I promise, not I'm debating. Only sound conversation here.

In Jesus' Name!

God Bless,
Noel Gae

 

[Chad]

I found this in the Bible

John 17
11And [now] I am no more in the world, but these are [still] in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep in Your Name [[a]in the knowledge of Yourself] those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We [are one].

12While I was with them, I kept and preserved them in Your Name [in the knowledge and worship of You]. Those You have given Me I guarded and protected, and not one of them has perished or is lost except the son of perdition [Judas Iscariot--the one who is now doomed to destruction, destined to be lost], that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

God said it.

God bless :rainbow: :rose:

Bingo! She hit the nail on the head with that Scripture. One thing I was going to personally say also is that Judas committed suicide by hanging himself. This implies he chose to end his own life instead of seeking forgiveness. He chose to push GOD away and end his own life, the life that GOD Himself has created. Suicide is [in one way] the attitude of one who thinks GOD cannot fix their issue(s), so they take the "easy way out".

Matthew 27:5
So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.

Acts 1:18
With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out

 

[noelgae]

Brother Chad seems to have missed my reply... But here are some scriptures to think about regarding the issue of suicide:

Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.
Luke 22:2-4

As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.
John 13:26-28

So if (and only if) this meant that Judas was possessed, then could it mean that he wasn't aware of his actions? Who knows...

Apart from that, I am not sure if committing suicide takes away your salvation. So brother Chad maybe right on this one. Though, in relation to Judas, the Bible is still not specific of his eternal fate.

 

[Chad]

What part of John 17 did you not understand? I believe that John 17 clearly states Judas' fate. Judas knew exactly what he was doing. You need to study what Luke 22:2-4 means carefully. Here's Matthew Henry's Commentary:

Christ knew all men, and had wise and holy ends in taking Judas to be a disciple. How he who knew Christ so well, came to betray him, we are here told; Satan entered into Judas. It is hard to say whether more mischief is done to Christ's kingdom, by the power of its open enemies, or by the treachery of its pretended friends; but without the latter, its enemies could not do so much evil as they do. (Lu 22:7-18)

*end commentary*
<dl><dt>Eternal death
Easton's Bible Dictionary
</dt><dd>
</dd><dd> The miserable fate of the wicked in hell (Matt. 25:46; Mark 3:29; Heb. 6:2; 2 Thess. 1:9; Matt. 18:8; 25:41; Jude 1:7). The Scripture as clearly teaches the unending duration of the penal sufferings of the lost as the "everlasting life," the "eternal life" of the righteous. The same Greek words in the New Testament (aion, aionios, aidios) are used to express (1) the eternal existence of God (1 Tim. 1:17; Rom. 1:20; 16:26); (2) of Christ (Rev. 1:18); (3) of the Holy Ghost (Heb. 9:14); and (4) the eternal duration of the sufferings of the lost (Matt. 25:46; Jude 1:6).

Their condition after casting off the mortal body is spoken of in these expressive words: "Fire that shall not be quenched" (Mark 9:45, 46), "fire unquenchable" (Luke 3:17), "the worm that never dies," the "bottomless pit" (Rev. 9:1), "the smoke of their torment ascending up for ever and ever" (Rev. 14:10, 11).

The idea that the "second death" (Rev. 20:14) is in the case of the wicked their absolute destruction, their annihilation, has not the slightest support from Scripture, which always represents their future as one of conscious suffering enduring for ever.
The supposition that God will ultimately secure the repentance and restoration of all sinners is equally unscriptural. There is not the slightest trace in all the Scriptures of any such restoration. Sufferings of themselves have no tendency to purify the soul from sin or impart spiritual life. The atoning death of Christ and the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit are the only means of divine appointment for bringing men to repentance. Now in the case of them that perish these means have been rejected, and "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" (Heb. 10:26, 27).
</dd></dl> More importantly, as disciples we are to preach the GOOD NEWS about Jesus. Spend more time on that instead of trying to figure out a dead man's fate. This topic is not critical nor important to anyone who truly seeks Jesus, nor for a disciple to preach to the lost. We talk about Jesus, not Judas.

 

[noelgae]

My dear brother Chad it seems that you have misunderstood my post. I apologize, if I caused you to be troubled.


Before I proceed any further, let me point out why I am discussing Judas. You said:

More importantly, as disciples we are to preach the GOOD NEWS about Jesus. Spend more time on that instead of trying to figure out a dead man's fate. This topic is not critical nor important to anyone who truly seeks Jesus, nor for a disciple to preach to the lost. We talk about Jesus, not Judas.

Of course, I couldn't agree with you more about preaching the GOOD NEWS about Jesus. Jesus is the message, not a dead man's fate. The reason I am even talking about Judas is because a member on this forum wanted to understand more. Thats all it is.

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
1 Peter 3:14-16


Now, let me clarify what I meant to say in my other two posts:

What part of John 17 did you not understand? I believe that John 17 clearly states Judas' fate.

Yes, agreed! The Bible clearly states Judas' fate. But what I was trying to say was that, John 17 does not imply that this 'fate is his 'eternal fate'. What I am saying is :

I AM NOT SAYING: Judas' eternal fate is a temporary in hell (?)
I AM SAYING however that the Bible does not specify 'doomed to destruction' as hell. Thats all.

11) I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. 12) While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 13) "I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.
John 17:11-13

Also, I am unclear why you defined eternal death here. I was not speaking against the idea of eternal death.

Now... about this forum, it seems to me like no one here is allowed to discuss anything -- even if it is related to the Bible and Jesus himself. From what everyone is saying (moderators, and you brother Chad), this is what the message of this forum sounds like:

"We only talk about Jesus, we believe only what we believe, and if you don't agree, you shouldn't speak. If you do, then we have the right to accuse you of debating with us. Don't talk to us about questions you may have: they are a waste of time. All we care about is talking about what we believe in."

At least, that is how it sounds to me brother Chad. Please take no offense to this, I am being very sincere. You can not have a discussion forum about Jesus and discourage people from discussing issues related to the Bible. I did nothing wrong here, and I feel talking about Judas is completely fine as long as it remains biblical and related to Jesus. Do we cherry pick what we want to discuss from the Bible? I get very hurt when my fellow brothers in Christ speak to me without any love. This is not the first time, but since you are the Administrator, I am speaking it out openly. Please pray about this, and so will I. If I have wronged you in any way, please forgive me... it has not been my intention.

God Bless,
Noel Gae

 

[Chad]

My dear brother Chad it seems that you have misunderstood my post. I apologize, if I caused you to be troubled.

Before I proceed any further, let me point out why I am discussing Judas. You said:

Of course, I couldn't agree with you more about preaching the GOOD NEWS about Jesus. Jesus is the message, not a dead man's fate. The reason I am even talking about Judas is because a member on this forum wanted to understand more. Thats all it is.

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
1 Peter 3:14-16

Now, let me clarify what I meant to say in my other two posts:

Yes, agreed! The Bible clearly states Judas' fate. But what I was trying to say was that, John 17 does not imply that this 'fate is his 'eternal fate'. What I am saying is :

I AM NOT SAYING: Judas' eternal fate is a temporary in hell (?)
I AM SAYING however that the Bible does not specify 'doomed to destruction' as hell. Thats all.

11) I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. 12) While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 13) "I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.
John 17:11-13

Also, I am unclear why you defined eternal death here. I was not speaking against the idea of eternal death.

John 17 mentions Judas to perish which perish means eternal death, hell.

Now... about this forum, it seems to me like no one here is allowed to discuss anything -- even if it is related to the Bible and Jesus himself. From what everyone is saying (moderators, and you brother Chad), this is what the message of this forum sounds like:

Welcome to Talk *Jesus* Forums. Current forum stats:
Threads: 11,118, Posts: 63,545, Members: 7,415

"We only talk about Jesus, we believe only what we believe, and if you don't agree, you shouldn't speak. If you do, then we have the right to accuse you of debating with us. Don't talk to us about questions you may have: they are a waste of time. All we care about is talking about what we believe in."

You got this all figured out wrong, that's not my problem anyway. I have no time to waste with your opinions of my forum. 7,400 other members have better things to say, and do. I'd like to know, WHY are you responding in your manner with complaints? What is in my last post that triggered you personally?

At least, that is how it sounds to me brother Chad. Please take no offense to this, I am being very sincere. You can not have a discussion forum about Jesus and discourage people from discussing issues related to the Bible. I did nothing wrong here, and I feel talking about Judas is completely fine as long as it remains biblical and related to Jesus. Do we cherry pick what we want to discuss from the Bible? I get very hurt when my fellow brothers in Christ speak to me without any love. This is not the first time, but since you are the Administrator, I am speaking it out openly. Please pray about this, and so will I. If I have wronged you in any way, please forgive me... it has not been my intention.

It more seems like your the one who can't handle a discussion without getting personal about me, my moderators, and the forum's atmosphere based on your own personal views. Your going off track, off topic into something that has no merit to my response to the topic's question in this thread. What is wrong with my response that your so emotional about? Can't handle a simple discussion?

Somehow you gave yourself the right to voice your opinion about my forum after being here for 3 weeks and making only 18 posts, including your last complaint? Your arguments are fruitless and without merit. The attitude you gave me was not necessary whatsoever. I gave you answers to your questions, but you got all personal.

Its best to pray before you post. While some issues you may have in your personal life exist, they can affect what the way you post here or any other forum, or the way you deal with people in public. I've learned that from my experience as well.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Judas was not involved in the "planning" of Jesus' atoning death on the cross;he was not a "good guy" helping to move God's plan forward.

What the reason was behind Judas' decision to betray Jesus, Scripture does not say, However, in John 12:4-6, John writes of Judas complaining about money that could have been given to the poor when, in reality, he was a thief and had been embezzling money from the money bag for some time.

Judas had become a despicable character. He even went so far as to greet Jesus with a kiss in the Garden of Gethsemani (See Mt 26:48-49), a terrible act of mockery.

"The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to the man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born." (Mt 26:24).

"With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out." (Acts 1:18)

SLE

 

[Faithful Son]

Teraside,

I am truly surprised by your comment. None of us can decide or judge if Judas went to heaven or hell. It does not state that anywhere in the Bible if he went to Heaven or hell, so we should not assume about such matters.

Judas could have gone to Heaven according to John 3:16, but only our Heavenly Father will know for sure.

About what you were asking Sadeyes, I cannot speak for God...nor can I understand what He does. It is possible that the Lord used Judas to do this. Because it is true that Jesus knew all along that Judas would betray him. For example, the story of Job...the Lord has His mighty hand in that situation all along.

God is mysterious, when we see Him in Heaven we will ask Him!

Many Blessings,
monkeys

Did sister LadylovesJesus answer satisfy you sister monkeys? It's best not to make statements that "no where" in the Bible something is mentioned.

I'm closing this thread, as far as I'm concerned some members need to read the forum rules and start acting on them.

If you take me on personally and make demands, I will be sure to close your account, without being judgmental, you may feel sad, or even a bit hurt, but enough is enough dear friends.

Thank you sister LadylovesJesus, brother Chad and brother SLE.

Thread is closed.