Warning

[Stephen1]

There are many today who seek the tribulation period and feel the need to be judged and for "purification" they say. There seems to be an intrinsic need for receiving the Lord's unmitigated wrath during His coming judgment against human intransigence in spite of the truth about the matter as the scriptures tell. This is a strange thing indeed.

There will be a place for them if they are living at the time of the beginning of the period and in they will go. This is a Biblical fact. There are even some who claim super "elite" status and that they will somehow be made into invincible perfected beings for the purpose of establishing the Lord's coming millennial kingdom themselves before He gets involved.

There are some who claim "protected" status by billing themselves as the 144,000 sealed mortal Israelites, or the believing part of national Israel who will flee into the Jordanian wilderness, and even the two prophets who will stand before the Lord in Jerusalem. These protections are limited and specific; and only if one is an ethnic Israelite. And there are even some who look forward to martyrdom and having their heads removed.

All of these argue themselves into the events of the tribulation with much vigor and attempt to convince others to go with them by supporting their views with scripture by aberrant teaching. I say let them go. Do not fight the issue with them. The Lord will execute His coming judgment against unbelief and related actions in spite of what humans think. He will not change His schedule.

Revelation
16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame [parenthetical].

3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from [Ek] the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

1Thessalonians,
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout [command], with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [harpazo] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation
18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of [EK] her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of [EK] great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings [politicians] of the earth.

18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

18:3 For all nationshave drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings [politicians] of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants [business mogels] of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great *****, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts [the continent where the great city once stood], and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them [the 24 elders and the great multitude]: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands [the martyrs of the tribulation period]; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

WARNING: The believer must be ready for the Lord's "harpazo" action to immortalize the Church and not to be found refuting His promise. There are only two resurrections to immortality scheduled during the tribulation period .... the Lord's two prophets and the tribulation martyrs. No others are described. The gatherings of a few surviving mortals at the end of the tribulation period as noted in Matthew 24 and 25 are not resurrections.

 

[Fellowservant]

There are many today who seek the tribulation period and feel the need to be judged and for "purification" they say. There seems to be an intrinsic need for receiving the Lord's unmitigated wrath during His coming judgment against human intransigence in spite of the truth about the matter as the scriptures tell. This is a strange thing indeed.


WARNING: The believer must be ready for the Lord's "harpazo" action to immortalize the Church and not to be found refuting His promise. There are only two resurrections to immortality scheduled during the tribulation period .... the Lord's two prophets and the tribulation martyrs. No others are described. The gatherings of a few surviving mortals at the end of the tribulation period as noted in Matthew 24 and 25 are not resurrections.

Just a question for fun, if the tribulation saints (Ie martyrs) go in the first resurrection, what resurrection do the pre-trib saints go in?

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 [U]Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. [/U]

Read on and you will see the second resurrection as well, following the thousand years. But its the resurrection of the unjust to be judged. (Ie second death has power over anyone in this resurrection).

The saints can be judged in Rev 20:4 as the apostles were told that they would judge some people, the rest of the dead are judged at the great white throne Rev 20:11-13 (Ie second death resurrection) Rev 20:13-14


God bless

 

[Stephen1]

Resurrections

FS,

There are two types of resurrections given in scripture:

The first is the resurrection to eternal life

The second is the resurrection to eternal damnation

John
5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour [time] is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour [time] is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There are more than one of the first type of resurrection which occurs at different times

Examples are: the Lord Himself in the first century .... then today's believers just before the coming tribulation period; then the Lord's two prophets and those who become believers and are martyred during the tribulation period at the end of it .... the wheat

There are those on thrones [resurrected before the tribulation period] who are seen in heaven, in the Lord's temple, and around the throne during the tribulation period .... and seen in Revelation 20:4 just after

There are also those seen in Revelation 20:4 who were martyred for their faith and seen waiting under the alter during the tribulation period for their resurrection at the end of it

There is only one of the second type of resurrection .... the second death of the human spirit .... this will occur for all of the human unsaved dead .... the tares

This resurrection will take place at the end of the Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth and all of the unsaved dead from the beginning of human creation will be sent to the lake of fire .... none of these will be found in the Lord's book of life

The gatherings immediately following the tribulation period as recorded in Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 25:31-46 are not resurrections .... but gatherings of the mortal survivors of the tribulation period

Those mortals found believing will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth .... those found in unbelief will be rejected

 

[jiggyfly]

FS,

There are two types of resurrections given in scripture:

The first is the resurrection to eternal life

The second is the resurrection to eternal damnation

John
5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour [time] is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour [time] is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There are more than one of the first type of resurrection which occurs at different times

Examples are: the Lord Himself in the first century .... then today's believers just before the coming tribulation period; then the Lord's two prophets and those who become believers and are martyred during the tribulation period at the end of it .... the wheat

There are those on thrones [resurrected before the tribulation period] who are seen in heaven, in the Lord's temple, and around the throne during the tribulation period .... and seen in Revelation 20:4 just after

There are also those seen in Revelation 20:4 who were martyred for their faith and seen waiting under the alter during the tribulation period for their resurrection at the end of it

There is only one of the second type of resurrection .... the second death of the human spirit .... this will occur for all of the human unsaved dead .... the tares

This resurrection will take place at the end of the Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth and all of the unsaved dead from the beginning of human creation will be sent to the lake of fire .... none of these will be found in the Lord's book of life

The gatherings immediately following the tribulation period as recorded in Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 25:31-46 are not resurrections .... but gatherings of the mortal survivors of the tribulation period

Those mortals found believing will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth .... those found in unbelief will be rejected

Stephen1, have you tried a more exhaustive study of John chapter five? You may want to try to go beyond KJV and search the Greek text. There isn't anything referencing "eternal" in this text nor damnation. A better definition of the Greek word krisis is judgment, and is in the form of discerning and or seperating.


In my personal opinion Young's literal transaltion is much more accurate here.
John 5:24-30
Joh 5:24 `Verily, verily, I say to you--He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.
Joh 5:25 `Verily, verily, I say to you--There cometh an hour, and it now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and those having heard shall live;
Joh 5:26 for, as the Father hath life in himself, so He gave also to the Son to have life in himself,
Joh 5:27 and authority He gave him also to do judgment, because he is Son of Man.
Joh 5:28 `Wonder not at this, because there doth come an hour in which all those in the tombs shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 and they shall come forth; those who did the good things to a rising again of life, and those who practised the evil things to a rising again of judgment.
Joh 5:30 `I am not able of myself to do anything; according as I hear I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me.

 

[Stephen1]

JF,

I read other translations as you do, but tend to stick to the original KJV for all prophetic study because of its symmetrical structure

There have been some specific changes made to the original which I do not agree with

I also believe that the references to life and damnation in the passage are about eternal life and eternal damnation, or judgment [death]

This theme of the Lord's carries throughout related scriptures

It is true that the believer has the promise of eternal life

It is also true that the unbeliever will experience eternal death and damnation

These things will become reality when the Lord calls in each case

I believe that the reference to the "first" and "second" resurrections given in Revelation 20 are these two types of resurrections .... there are no other classifications

I do not believe that "first" and "second" are intended to mean sequence as taught in post-tribulation thinking which begs only two actual resurrection events

Those of the first type do occur before the second one

 

[jiggyfly]

Stephen1, I wasn't sure if you were aware of the error in the KJV translation concerning the scriptures you referenced, that's all. Your opinion and view is quite different than mine concerning the resurrections but you made some wonderfully clear and neat posts on your view. God bless

 

[Stephen1]

JF,

The modern KJV does have a few incongruities and theme changing inserts possibly influenced by positional views, and made later beyond the original translation

However, I have found these to be easily detected and understood

One example in some revisions of the original KJV that I have run across is the changing of "us" to "them" in Revelation 5:9-10

This is not significantly different, but can be used to alter the intended conveyance of the passage to some degree

There are some translations other than the KJV today that go much further and I would say too far .... even to the extent of presenting a marked difference especially if the changes involve the prophetic scriptures

Overall I would say that most translations have not been altered beyond the Lord's intended meaning

He has preserved His Word for sure

 

[Fellowservant]

There is some very good info in your post brother, but if this was a mid-trib, pre-wrath, post- trib study, i would say the same.

All claim to have their own proof text for these teachings. So that's where it gets confusing, not all can be right.

I now leave room for all. As i think folks will be better prepared for a great tribulation period, if they consider all these views.

God bless

 

[Stephen1]

FS,

The Lord has said that one must be ready and there must be a reason for His admonition

Here is why I think He has said this:

Many profess christianity and are not .... and many think they are saved and are not

You know this and I know this

His warning must be taken seriously by all

I believe His warning to be ready is directed to these who are not saved , but think they are for various reasons

If one is saved and stays in this mode of readiness [following Jesus Christ every day of their lives] then there is nothing to be concerned about

And I believe that His warning must be applied to those living just before He brings His unmitigated wrath upon an unbelieving world

If one misses this mark and enters the tribulation period there will not be any viable way for one to prepare for the wiles of the period pressed upon them

Only repentance will work during the tribulation period and most who will do this will be martyred for their faith

There is a push on today by what I would consider to the false teaching of down playing this warning and thereby may be leading the unsaved [those who think they and are not] astray which may place them in the tribulation period

These will then be subjected to a very confusing, vexing, and destructive environment .... and they may end up rejecting the truth and lost forever

I can see and believe that there are some nefarious motives involved by individuals and organizations who may be leading their followers away from the Lord's intents regarding His scheduled call for the believer

.... and these same theologies almost always have elements of error in their doctrines regarding one's salvation

So I always tell that it is best to take the Lord seriously and to be ready for His abrupt intervention which could take place before this day is over

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

Welcome to the forum Stephen1.

If one misses this mark and enters the tribulation period there will not be any viable way for one to prepare for the wiles of the period pressed upon them

Only repentance will work during the tribulation period

and most who will do this will be martyred for their faith

This is(repentance), of course, the way of the kingdom as He has established it thru the ages.

I think the spirit of that time, and prayer of the believers will truely be:
'Not by might nor by power, but by your Spirit'

Much as it was during the time of the 1st century for believers, facing persecutions/crucifictions/lions and the like..
believers of the tribulation period will be empowered by the Spirit, and not of their own flesh:

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,
and by the word of their testimony;
and they loved not their lives unto death.

True conversion will happen to many at that time by the Spirit, as it happened to men like Peter.
Dissillusioned in the moment, but empowered by the Spirit afterward.

and they may end up rejecting the truth and lost forever

This is the unvarnished truth of time. How many examples do people hear about a so-n-so person looses their life w/o Christ.. and so many others who knew him came to faith in Christ at the time of the funeral/memorial. The tribulation period will prove no less of a challange to those on the fence..
But they'll know where they stand when the time comes.
John 10:27-30 speaks of the ultimate authority Christ has over a believer. And that only He knows who are in His sovereign hand.


Blessings, LoJ

 

[Stephen1]

LoJ said,

"only He knows who are in His sovereign hand"

>This is the truth