• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 11,000 members today

    Register Log In

Vicarious Law-keeping?

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:9)

Active
Believers are not intended to walk within the Law for their righteousness, for it is only Christ and His work that brings one to rebirth and which imputes His righteousness! Surly there is nothing more hindering to Christian spiritual growth (but not to receiving salvation itself) than to misapprehend the intention of the Law concerning its purpose and application (which knowledge will probably not become common enough in Christendom until the translation of the Church)! It has been accurately stated that “The New Testament is "enfolded" in the Old Testament, and the Old Testament is "unfolded" in the New! It must be well understood though, that this has only to do with the individual identification and purpose of each system, and that neither have application to the other beyond the types and shadows of what God will do and has done concerning the salvation of believers.

“That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us” does not design the motive that the Law is fulfilled in the believer, but that the righteousness—to which the Law directs—“condemn sin” and deliverance in Christ (which “the Law could not do” - Ro 8:3—NC), is fulfilled in the believer! The Law was not intended for deliverance (not even for Israel to whom only it ever applied) but only to identify and reveal guilt of sin, and rather direct one to deliverance (Gal 3:24). It was in the sacrificial ordinances and not obedience to the Decalogue that forgiveness was obtained (Num 15:24-31); which ordinances had only Christ’s sacrifice in mind, and it is here where deliverance is “finished” or completed! The purpose of obedience to the Decalogue was to manifest faith in God and His commands, especially concerning the ordinance of the sin-offering, which alone brought forgiveness.

The same applies to Christian obedience, because obedience does not deliver but manifests there has been deliverance, for there must first be deliverance before than can be true obedience, because it requires the right heart in the obedience (new nature after Christ’s nature - Col 3:10). One walking “in the Spirit” with the “new man” or new nature, glorifies God in manifesting that salvation has been applied to the soul only because of what Christ has done, and this provides for us to ask God for faith in His Son and His work.

Also, please excuse the excessive cementations below, due to what I feel are issue-pertinent, thanks!
NC





[CENTER]Vicarious Law-keeping?[/CENTER]

[CENTER][/CENTER]

“Even so through the obedience of One” (Rom 5:19). This was our Lord’s death, as an act of obedience: “He became obedient unto death, even the death of the Cross” (Phl 2:8). He was of course always obedient to His Father, but it cannot be too strongly emphasized that His life before the Cross—His “active obedience,” as it is called, is not in any sense counted to us for righteousness. “I delivered to you,” says Paul, “first of all that Christ died for our sins” (1Cor 15:3).

Before His death He was “holy, guileless, undefiled and separate from sinners” (Heb 7:26). He Himself said, “Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone; but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit” (Jhn 12:24). Do you not see that those who claim that our Lord’s righteous life under Moses’s Law is reckoned to us for our “active righteousness; while His death in which He put away our sins, is, as they claim, the “passive” side, are really leaving you, and the Lord too, under the authority of the Law?

“Justified in His Blood,” and of that alone, reveals the direct lie to the claim that man must have an “active righteousness” (self-works—NC) as well as a “passive righteousness” (Christ’s works—NC). The specious assertion is, that “inasmuch as we have all broken the Law (even though God says that Gentiles were ‘without law’—and those in Christ are not under it) and inasmuch as man cannot by his works himself recover his righteous standing, Christ came and kept the Law in man’s place; Then He went to the Cross, and suffered the penalty of death for man’s guilt so that the result is an ‘active righteousness’ reckoned to man—that is, Christ’s keeping of the Law in man’s place; and second, a ‘passive righteousness,’ which consists of the putting away all guilt by the Blood of Christ.

Now, the awful thing here is the unbelief concerning man’s irrecoverable state before God (self-works being applied for redemption and not because of redemption is the same as demonstrating works-salvation. It’s Christ only, as our works should show—NC). For not only must Christ’s Blood be shed in expiation for our guilt; but we had to die with Christ. We were connected with the old Adam; and the old man—all we had and were in Adam, must be crucified—if we were to be “joined to Another, even to Him that was raised from the dead” (all of which are far from the workings of the Law – Ro 8:3—NC). Theological teaching since the Reformation has never set forth clearly our utter end in our death with Christ on the Cross (which answers to the reason why so much attention is given to the admixture of Judaism and Christianity, i.e. the Judeo-Christian concept. This is acceptable if the meaning here is proselytizing from Judaism to Christianity, which was the initial intent of meaning. But to conceive of amalgamating the two systems would result, if were possible, in detracting force from both—NC).

The fatal result of this terrible error is to leave the Law as claimant over those in Christ: for “law has dominion over a man as long as he liveth” (Rom 7:1). Unless you are able to believe in your heart that you died with Christ, that you old man was crucified with Him (Rom 6:6), and that you were buried, and that your history before god in Adam the first came to an utter end at Calvary, you will never get free from the claims of Law upon your conscience. Such is the plight of Reformed theology. Both Calvinists and Arminians think that the flesh (old man; Adamic sinful nature of one’s spirit—NC) is not so bad that it cannot be acted on for God by Christ using the Law of God and giving it power through the Spirit (I am still researching if these two doctrines believe this claim—NC).

The ascended Lord Jesus Christ is our righteousness. His earthly Life under the Law is not our righteousness. We have no connection with a Christ on earth and under Law. We are expressly told in Romans 7:1-6 that even Jewish believers who have been under the Law were “made dead to the Law by the body of Christ, that they might be joined to Another, even to Him who was raised from the dead” (Rom 7:4).

It is only the desperate legality of man’s heart, his self-confidence, that make him drag in and cling to the Law—even though Christ must fulfill it for him (leaving self out of any credit for salvation is the only true faith within Christ-only-salvation—NC)! Vicarious Law-keeping is Galatian heresy! Christianity begins with the resurrection (spiritual resurrection from sin and death—NC).


- W R N (William R Newell 1927–1992)
 
Active
What is the difference between Jesus commandments and the Law ??

thanks
Hi and appreciate your reply and sincere inquiry! First it needs to be established (because of much confusion) that obedience does not produce salvation (not suspecting you think so but just making a statement), but salvation produces obedience. Concerning your question, which I find quite significant, Jesus' commands and the commands of Moses via God have the same goal (love to God and others,) but the performing of them and the degree in which they operate are in varying capacities. The command to "love thy neighbor as thyself" is now in a greater capacity by loving others, not as you would love yourself, but "as I have loved you" (Jhn 13:34). This answers to the meaning of "A new commandment I give unto you."

As we know, another significant difference is that the Law was given only to Israelite believers in God (Jhn 14:1) and no other people before it was "taken away" (Heb 10:9), but the commandments of the Lord Jesus (all that He and His Apostles taught) are given to all believers.

God's blessings to your Family!
 
Loyal
1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:3; But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;
Eph 5:4; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5; For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
Eph 5:6; Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

I notice both of these passages above have a warning about being deceived. It seems many "Christians" are deceived these days.

Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

None of these passage have a caveat or and exclusion attached to them. None of these passages say.. "unless you are a Christian". The plain and simple truth is... if you are an
immoral person, your eternity is in jeopardy.

As far as the commandments go....

1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

As far as Gentiles never being given the law - we were, but it doesn't matter we are still held to it.

[NLT]
Rom 2:11; For God does not show favoritism.
Rom 2:12; When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
Rom 2:13; For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.
Rom 2:14; Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.
Rom 2:15; They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.

Keep in mind, the law is what defines sin. So if Gentiles were never under the law, that means we can never sin.
 
Loyal
In 2 Cor 11:13-15; talks about people who "disguise" themselves as apostles, and servants of righteousness. Have you ever wondered who these people are? Why does the Bible give us this warning?

In Jude 1:4; it says certain people have crept in among the church - it says the turn the grace of God into a license to sin. Who are these people who do this?

Matt 7:15; and Acts 20:29; says that wolves will come in amongst the flock, and not spare them. It says these people are false prophets. Who are these wolves? Where are they?

2 Tim 3:5-7; says there are "teachers" who "hold on to a form of godliness" - yet they deny God. It says they are "always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". Who are these teachers? Are they here on TalkJesus?
Are they among us?

Heb 10:26 - For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

Who are these people who teach that if Christians keep on sinning it doesn't matter? They are here on TalkJesus if you know where to look.

1 Tim 1:3-7; talks about people who want to be teachers, it talks about things that are contrary to "sound teaching" - it says they want to be teachers, but they don't understand what they are saying.

2 Tim 4:3; Says the time will come... when people want to have preachers that teach them what they want to hear... they want to have their ears "tickled". Who are thee people that teach such things?

2 Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among us, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who brought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

There are a few more verses like this... but why does the Bible go to great lengths to warn us about people who turn the grace of God into a license to sin?

2 John 1:9; Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teachings of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teachings he has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:10; if anyone come to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting.

The Bible says you will know them by their fruit. (Matt 7:16; Matt 7:20; ) Three verses later it says Jesus will say to them "Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness,"
Why would anyone teach it is OK to "practice lawlessness".

Be on the lookout for these false prophets and wolves who disguise themselves as servants of light. They are around if you know where to look.

1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

You almost get the feeling God is going to punish us for keeping the commandments. Maybe the title of this thread should be Vicarious Licentiousness.
 
Active
None of these passage have a caveat or and exclusion attached to them. None of these passages say.. "unless you are a Christian". The plain and simple truth is... if you are an immoral person, your eternity is in jeopardy.
Hi BAC! Thanks for your input. I would say if one claims to be reborn and lives in sin, they are quite confused and mistaken concerning Christianity.
 
Member
I agree with net chaplin.

Has anyone ever heard the phrase "I'm not a sinner because I sin, I sin because I am a sinner"?

One thing that I see a lot is that people have the wrong view of what sin really is. And that is that sin is evil actions or actions that go against God's Laws. Sure sometimes actions are called sin. But real sin is a much deeper problem.

That problem is our fallen nature, our imperfect being. Mankind is not separated from God because they sin, but because they are mankind. Their very nature is one of rebellion against God. Basically the core of who we are before becoming a new creature in Christ is 100 percent wicked. We are wicked. And because we are evil, we bear evil fruit, we perform evil actions. Sinful actions cannot exist without a sinful heart to create them.

God knows that our actions are just symptoms of a diseased, rebellious nature. That is why Christ came to change our nature and give us his own.

But we like to focus on sin as breaking the law because it is easier to see our actions than our hearts. The problem with that is that we often think that good actions would fix our bad actions. But there is no law that could save, nothing we could do could save us. Because the problem is not our actions but our heart.

I'm sure everyone on this site will agree that Jesus is the only one that can save us and give us a new heart, or nature. But where alot of people mess up is thinking that once they are saved, once they have this new heart and a relationship with God, that they must now maintain that with good action or keeping the Law. Grace is way more powerful than that.

The Law has only one purpose to bring the world to a guilty state. If you rely on the Law or commandments at all it will only condemn you. The sting of death is sin and the strength of sin is the Law.

I am not saying that the Law is bad or that the Law is gone.

I am saying that I through Jesus fulfilling the Law, am now dead with Christ to the Law never the less I live because Christ gave me his righteousness that he obtained by fulfilling the Law in my place. And the amazing life that I live now, I live by faith that God's grace toward me purchased everything needed for me. All I have, my new heart, my love for my neighbor and God, the righteousness by which I stand, everything, I have because God gave it to me. Even though my very own sinful nature was trying to use the Law to kill me.
 
Unworthy Servant
Staff Member
“That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us” does not design the motive that the Law is fulfilled in the believer, but that the righteousness—to which the Law directs—“condemn sin” and deliverance in Christ (which “the Law could not do” - Ro 8:3—NC), is fulfilled in the believer!
Greetings,

I was sharing this at a meeting recently. I have NEVER met a new born again believer who had the slightest thought or impulse or desire to go and knock up his neighbour's wife or steal his goods or kill him or any other tressspass against him OR go making some graven image or bowing down to one and certainly not having the teeniest tiniest impulse to worship any god but only to praise and honour God the Father through Jesus the Son. [why? because he has Jesus in Him by the Spirit!]
and this...

there was a woman caught in the very act of adultery. Brought before Jesus for His verdict. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Reader, Could you cast the first stone? Why not? Have you sinned at some stage even if you are a believer?

Now this may shock you at first but, I could cast the first stone.

We have been made the righteousness of God in Christ. So, therefore we could cast the first stone, BUT due to the very Righteousness of God, we wouldn't. To do so would go against the LORD and His ways, to Whom we give thanks because His merciful loving-kindness endureth for ever.... and we see that in Jesus as He said to the woman... neither do i condemn thee... go and sin no more.
Have you believed? Can you believe that the righteousness of God is found in His Son and not in anything we can ever do to cleanse ourselves of the stain of guilt and sin?
Is that too simple? Almost unbelievable? Surely we have to earn our salvation? Surely we have to earn the right to keep it..... as much as we would expect that one of our little ones would have to earn the right to keep a present, a gift, that we gave them because we love them...???

Anyone who has seen {had their eyes opened to} the great love of God in sending His Son would never want to go out sinning and if you have ever done sin since hearing and believing, turn again, remember your first love, and go.... and sin no more.

The righteousness of God in Jesus Christ needs no top up from us.

No law can make you clean. No law can save you. But, there is a law that can redeem you and it is that law by which we stand, not because of what we have done but because of who we are to the Redeemer and what we are worth to Him.

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2Corinthians 5:21
(and if that doesn't gladden your heart, you have a bad case of pharisee dis-ease!)

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2Corinthians 5:21

PRAISE YE THE LORD


Bless you ....><>
 
Loyal
...and yet, "wanting" to repent, is not the same thing as actually repenting.

Heb 12:16; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal.
Heb 12:17; For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

I
I was sharing this at a meeting recently. I have NEVER met a new born again believer who had the slightest thought or impulse or desire to go and knock up his neighbour's wife or steal his goods or kill him or any other tressspass against him OR go making some graven image or bowing down to one and certainly not having the teeniest tiniest impulse to worship any god but only to praise and honour God the Father through Jesus the Son. [why? because he has Jesus in Him by the Spirit!]
and this...
Perhaps this true... but have you ever sinned after becoming a Christian? Being a Christian doesn't "make" us not sin.

Which bring up another point...

Rom 5:13; for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

If there is no law... there can be no sin. In fact it is only because of the law...

Rom 3:20; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

...that we even know what sin is. It's not only what is written n the Bible, but what is written on our hearts.

Rom 2:15; in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

Now the official stance of the denominations I am familiar with say.. it is possible for Christians to sin.
There are "Christians" (many have been here on TalkJesus in he past) that say because we are not under the law, it is impossible for Christians to sin. ( 1 Jn 3:9; )
Some go so far as to say Gentiles were never under the law.... well if this was true it wouldn't matter because...

[KJV]
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

They're still going to die anyway.

The Bible says "if" we are led by the Spirit, we aren't under the law.... it seems obvious that we aren't "led by the Spirit" all of time, if we were, we would never sin.
In another thread about cherry picking, I posted over 45 verses they say Christians are supposed to keep the commandments, some even say it is a requirement.
So if Christians are not under the [entire] law.... how can they sin? Or is it possible we are not under the civil (stone people, etc..) and ceremonial (circumcision, sacrifices by priests, etc...)
but still under the moral law?

Because if Christians are no longer under the moral law.... then murder, stealing, child-molesting, adultery. homosexuality, lying, idol worship (the list keeps going)...
doesn't matter. Because with no law, I cannot sin.

If Gentiles were "never" under the law, then they could have "never" sinned.
 
Loyal
After Moses died.... Joshua led the people into the promised land. (just because it was promised, didn't mean they didn't have to fight for it)

The very first time the commandments were read in the promised land Gentiles were there.

Josh 8:30; Then Joshua built an altar to the LORD, the God of Israel, in Mount Ebal,
Josh 8:31; just as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded the sons of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of uncut stones on which no man had wielded an iron tool; and they offered burnt offerings on it to the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.
Josh 8:32; He wrote there on the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he had written, in the presence of the sons of Israel.
Josh 8:33; All Israel with their elders and officers and their judges were standing on both sides of the ark before the Levitical priests who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD, the stranger as well as the native. Half of them stood in front of Mount Gerizim and half of them in front of Mount Ebal, just as Moses the servant of the LORD had given command at first to bless the people of Israel.
Josh 8:34; Then afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessing and the curse, according to all that is written in the book of the law.
Josh 8:35; There was not a word of all that Moses had commanded which Joshua did not read before all the assembly of Israel with the women and the little ones and the strangers who were living among them.

Who were these strangers, the "non-natives" among the Jews? Gentiles. Rahab would have been one of these people.
In fact even to this very day in 2019, if a Gentile wants to convert to Judaism, they have to be circumcised. Gentiles were always under the law.
Also keep in mind many of the commandments are repeated in Galatians, Ephesians, and Romans... books that Paul wrote... to the Gentiles.

Many Christians say they have sinned since becoming a Christian. how can this be, if they were never under the law to begin with?
Also if we must be led by the Spirit, in order to "not" be under the law, why do Christians sometimes sin? Is the the Spirit which is leading them make them sin?
(be very careful how you answer that - blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a serious thing).
 
Last edited:
Unworthy Servant
Staff Member
Greetings,

we are told that Jesus name is from Joshua which means God is our Salvation or The Salvation of God or even, the LORD saves, the Salvation of the LORD
If Jesus is Jah-Jahoshuah or, God's salvation of God, then can we add to Him or the Salvation of God in Him?

Can we declare this:

{To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.} I waited patiently for the LORD; and He inclined unto me, and heard my cry.

He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.

And He hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.

Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

Many, O LORD my God, are Thy wonderful works which Thou hast done, and Thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto Thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.

Sacrifice and offering Thou didst not desire; mine ears hast Thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast Thou not required.

Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

I delight to do Thy will, O my God: yea, Thy law is within my heart.

I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, Thou knowest.

I have not hid Thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared Thy faithfulness and Thy salvation: I have not concealed Thy lovingkindness and Thy truth from the great congregation.
Psalm 40:1-10

yea
Clouds and thick darkness surround Him; Righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne.
Psalm 97:2
but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD.
Jeremiah 9:24


Bless you ....><>
 
Member
What do you think Paul is trying to say in Romans 7:15-23?

My belief is that we have a mortal, carnal body that is in constant contact with this fallen world. And at one point our heart was just as evil as this world. But now we have a relationship, we have a new heart. But still we are connected to this fallen world through our corrupt flesh and the evil influences are constant. Sometimes when we are feeling weak we stop focuing on God and our relationship and become tempted. At this point our mind and emotions and hormones are contradictory to our heart or the core of our being, where our idenity comes from. And often at this point we do something wrong. But I want to point out the difference between this and when we did wrong when our heart was wrong. Now as a new creature our heart does not agree with these actions. And these actions are created when our weak mind processes the corrupt influences of this world. They do not originate from our heart anymore. We as new creatures are not in agreement with wrong actions.
 
Active
Just to summarize my opinion, Jesus’ perfect fulfillment of the Law was not to credit His righteousness in the Law to believers, but to manifest His qualification of being the perfect, spotless sacrifice for us, and to manifest that He is the only One righteous. The righteousness with which believers are imputed is from the righteousness He has always possessed; which does not derive from works (He didn't need to do the works of the Law to be righteous but to manifest that He is righteous), but are always part of being Divine, and is why righteousness, holiness, etc. have to be imputed, because these attributes of God are incommunicable to man and must be imputed (credited).
 
Member
Just to summarize my opinion, Jesus’ perfect fulfillment of the Law was not to credit His righteousness in the Law to believers, but to manifest His qualification of being the perfect, spotless sacrifice for us, and to manifest that He is the only One righteous. The righteousness with which believers are imputed is from the righteousness He has always possessed; which does not derive from works (He didn't need to do the works of the Law to be righteous but to manifest that He is righteous), but are always part of being Divine, and is why righteousness, holiness, etc. have to be imputed, because these attributes of God are incommunicable to man and must be imputed (credited).
Have you ever read pilgrim's progress from john bunyan? In the second part greatheart explains to christina that Jesus has four kinds of righteousness. He has one kind of righteousness as God, one as man, one as God-man, and one that fulfilling the Law brings. His righteousness as God, man. and God-man is needed but he is able to share the righteousness gained by fulfillingbthe Law as a type of kinsman redemption. It is a very interesting passage.
 
Active
Have you ever read pilgrim's progress from john bunyan? In the second part greatheart explains to christina that Jesus has four kinds of righteousness. He has one kind of righteousness as God, one as man, one as God-man, and one that fulfilling the Law brings. His righteousness as God, man. and God-man is needed but he is able to share the righteousness gained by fulfillingbthe Law as a type of kinsman redemption. It is a very interesting passage.
Hi, and thanks for your replies and comments in this thread! Have not read that yet, but just to share my opinion on "kinsman redemption" I would think it applies to Jesus and the Jews, considering the Law and its precepts belonged to them only, before it was "taken away" (Heb 10:9). "Kinsman" defines those who of the blood relatives. To me, this is the Jewish nation of Israel and is applied only to them. But Christianity applies to the whole man, body and soul, to all believers.

Blessings!
 
Member
Hi, and thanks for your replies and comments in this thread! Have not read that yet, but just to share my opinion on "kinsman redemption" I would think it applies to Jesus and the Jews, considering the Law and its precepts belonged to them only, before it was "taken away" (Heb 10:9). "Kinsman" defines those who of the blood relatives. To me, this is the Jewish nation of Israel and is applied only to them. But Christianity applies to the whole man, body and soul, to all believers.

Blessings!
I think I get what you are saying. I agree kinsman redemption would apply to the Jews. In mathew 15:24 Jesus says that he came for Israel. But we are then grafted into that tree of being a Jew and benefiting from kinsman redemption.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Christ4Ever Devotionals 0
Dave M Bible Discussions 4
NetChaplain Bible Discussions 34

Similar threads


Top