Upset about peoples opinions

[jari]

Hi,
I have been reading and talking with people about certain topics discussed here on TJ and it has upset that people refuse to "come all the way" and explain and prove their views from scripture in a way you could agree with them in the light of the bible. Unfortunately this is not often so. Many people seem to be just interested in showing their view about a topic and I think this is ok but when they want to argue without waterproof scripture evidence. it really upsets me.


Sometimes I ask people how do they know this is like they say and there is never no answer and always when I ask for evidence the people leave just so they can come back with their view thats not yet disproven.

Whats up with this?

Why do people claim things true when challanged they cannot prove it all the way? and rather leave their view partially a mystery even to them self and yet preach it again!


I dont understand. I think most depates have people who dont claim to know but argue anyway for their perhaps merely potential view but not about something they can prove. I dont judge, i think it just creates a lot of debates around here. Good thing about TJ has requirement to backup what you say with scripture although many people dont seem to be interested in scripture but rather what they feel is right in the first place. But thats a whole another story.

What do you think? Shouldnt post be backed up with scripture more?

 

[Brother Mike]

Post Backed by Scripture.

Jari... That is Rule Number seven on these forums...

7. Provide Scripture when making a biblical point

You run into this all the time where people learn a few things and come here and post.. but when you call them out and ask question they give you the run around, get offended, or never respond...

I would like some standard where questions about someone's doctrine must be answered with Scriptures.... Lots more work on the mod's, but it would be more helpful for those that don't think they know it all to learn....

Right now I am waiting on a response about the resurrection and how it relates to a post or pre trib rapture...

waiting on a response about... if you don't pray in tongues your not saved

and was ignored by a few in my response to "God makes you sick thread" meaning they were not humble or had enough revelation in the Word to respond in the first place..

It's frustrating, but things in the Bible study thread should be for the serious students to ask questions, post what they have believed with scripture and able to receive correction..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

Yes and the rule isnt obeyed enough.
And i think many false doctrines would be left unposted if the people would have to use scripture to back it up......

 

[rizen1]

Grace and Peace

The thing is people do use scripture to back up their statements and thats the problem. We should not be using the bible to prove we are right or someone else is wrong.

We need to come together as a family and study what the word says, examine if what we believe lines up with scripture.

We have people from difference backgrounds and cultures so patience is needed. We have people who are overly sensitive and will take the slightest correction or response as insult. Patience and love is needed. If we are sitting around eager for someone to respond something is wrong. Becoming an emotional poster is dangerous to any conversation. The flesh rises giving birth to pride and anger. You can always tell when this is happening the mood changes, you're on your toes. People need to learn to step away from a topic when they become emotionally attached, and not respond in anger or when feeling offended.

It's good when false doctrines are posted, it gives those who know the truth to share some light. Censorship is not the solution for it's not what's being said is the problem it's how it's being said. We need the discussions it forces us to study and do research. We might think it's all one big fight or debate but I'll tell you this it's a learning ground. Members and visitors are reading it and seeds are being planted. It's not about having the final word or being right or wrong.. it's about finding truth and learning something.

These discussions should not provide food for gossip. Never should members team up against members because they " feel " that certain member is not listening. I see it and I can smell the pride. Respect each other and give each person room to express themselves. Talk with them privately if you need to. Division is not needed, there's no joining conversations to help a friend debate another..or being your friend's bodyguard or mouth piece.

L.O.V.E
Every intention and motive should be rooted in love. The problem is everyone wants to be heard and no one is humble enough to let the other speak.

When every member pray before posting all emotions will be left outside.

When every member acknowledge there's a human behind the computer there will be proper discussions.

When gossip cease misunderstood members would feel welcome and have no need for reports being filed on them. For we would try harder to get to know them, love them and respect them. Then they in return will accept correction and truth from the love we showed to them.

When members remove self and pride from the equation, their goal would be to bring glory to God and not glory to themselves to be seen as right.

This is an international forum filled with beautiful people from every walk of life. Our opinions are shaped and fashioned by our environments and culture. I don't believe in war or support it and thats my right to that opinion should I be debated on it sure, am I right ? I would hope so but I respect those who do support war. I'm around people with all types of opinions and it's because I respect their opinion that I have the opportunity to share my faith with them.

Respect each other, be willing to listen and correct with love. At the end of the day it's not about me or you, it should be about bringing glory to God.

 

[jari]

Yes I agree Rizen. Honestly I wish people who dont show respect to others would be comforted by TJ staff because there's few people in particular who send very hard to understand messages over and over again. Now I mean no harm for these brothers but if people are allowed to push their agenda it its one the things that upsets me most.

Hmm maybe I should just PM these brothers but I dont want to try and control the forums my self but leave it for staff.

Of course we all have opinions we stick to but i feel like some people ignore any responses just so they can keep on with their agenda.
And this causes division and confusion and is what upsets me.

 

[RJ]

Jari... That is Rule Number seven on these forums...

7. Provide Scripture when making a biblical point

You run into this all the time where people learn a few things and come here and post.. but when you call them out and ask question they give you the run around, get offended, or never respond...

I would like some standard where questions about someone's doctrine must be answered with Scriptures.... Lots more work on the mod's, but it would be more helpful for those that don't think they know it all to learn....

Right now I am waiting on a response about the resurrection and how it relates to a post or pre trib rapture...

waiting on a response about... if you don't pray in tongues your not saved

and was ignored by a few in my response to "God makes you sick thread" meaning they were not humble or had enough revelation in the Word to respond in the first place..

It's frustrating, but things in the Bible study thread should be for the serious students to ask questions, post what they have believed with scripture and able to receive correction..

Jesus Is Lord.

I think the key words here are "should be for the serious students to ask questions". I have seen those who act like they are in need for understanding and ask questions to lure people into arguments. I don't see that as a good and positive trait that coincides with the perfect nature of God.

I agree, if you have a question about the bible and are in serious need for understanding, TJ is the perfect place for help but those who are wolves in sheep clothing should find another place.

 

[jari]

Yes I agree with RJ thats what upsets me too.
I hope people would have more humble heart when talking about opinions of bible, its God's word, not our word and not our hobby. But we should hold on to knowing what everything means with open mind and not hold to our agendas in the expense of Truth - the message God has for us.


2Ti 2:14-16 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. (15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (16) But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

 

[CookieRaider]

I just posted something like this not too long ago in 'What would you like to see on TJ?' I know I am new in Christ, but I am afraid to ask a question or put what little knowledge of the Bible I have out there because of all the arguing and harshness...I agree.

 

[jari]

I just posted something like this not too long ago in 'What would you like to see on TJ?' I know I am new in Christ, but I am afraid to ask a question or put what little knowledge of the Bible I have out there because of all the arguing and harshness...I agree.

Sure you can always ask questions thats why we are here for.
And you can answer them too but if your unsure if its correct just say so.

The issue we have in here is when there's debates where everyone claims to be right.

 

[rizen1]

If members truly prayer before posting they would realize some things are better left unsaid. There seem to be a need to " I must be the first to answer this " or " I'm right you are wrong "

People who are different have the right to be here. People get banned and receive warnings but it's not something that needs to be publicized.

Respect each other, respect those who think differently and stop trying to to challenge or debate those who do think differently. To many people try to hijack peoples threads not giving the person time to explain themselves.

No one should be afraid to post.
If everyone prays before they post their would be no pride, no anger or frustration.
This is a non-denomination site and international site.

 

[james g]

there are a lot of debates ,arguing and harshness.I would love to learn more then this.I know I can do arguing and harshness not so good at debates.I have alot to learn still.Would love to learn more.

 

[David777]

Agree.

In places the Bible can be a very difficult book to understand, no wonder debate rages. When you also consider the multitude of Christian denominations out there, differences will arise.

No sincere questions should ever be rejected but answered honestly and gently. If anyone does not understand a point they should ask without fear of recrimination.

There are some people in TJ that I have the highest respect for. Some others not so much, but I will respect their opinions nevertheless.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I'm surprised it works at all.There will be clutter, diversions and divisions but where else can you get feedback like this from your views or questions?
In a denomination there will be little dissent over cloudy doctrines, couched opinions or baited questions.

It is an awesome training field because we are supposed to go out and be able to witness to non believers.So if I can't make a believer see my point I can pretty much guess that it would only get through to a very small portion of unbelievers.

20 years ago we had no way to actually discuss the differences and similarities between denominations because we had to pick a denomination and put up with it's doctrines out of convenience.

In rural America there may be only 1 or 2 denominations within 20 miles of where you happen to be born and raised.This meant that there was no opportunity to even know what questions you should be asking your pastor because you were to busy trying to catch up with what he (supposedly) knew.
Since we were busy working(a job) to pay pastor(10%) to misinform us, we could never catch up to what he knew.
Any studies we did on our own that did not match our denominational beliefs had to be held and cherished secretly,lest we be thrown out of the congregation.

The internet has only really been utilized in the last 12 years so I am amazed that a multi-denominational forum works as well as it does.To be able to search multiple translations and do etymology and history studies was a full time job 20 years ago.So in the last 10 years I have been able to correct my own beliefs for the first time.

Sometimes stubborn or annoying posters teach me things about how to approach different types of people that I will encounter among unbelievers in my walk.

 

[AudreyNicole]

Sometimes stubborn or annoying posters teach me things about how to approach different types of people that I will encounter among unbelievers in my walk.

Agreed. Anytime I come upon stubborn believers I know that they are a test of my faith and love... so I appreciate them because I know God is just using them to help me I always say, if you can't stand the heat, get outta the kitchen and I definitely think Christianity is a heated subject... one that requires firmness and stubbornness, but also love and respect. I try not to waste my time with those who don't respect me or my beliefs, and I try to help those that do.

The Bible says in Romans 14:5, "Let each be convinced in his own mind"... if you eat meat, then eat it to glorify God... if you don't eat meat, then don't eat it to glorify God. At the end of the day, as long as you love Christ and as long as your beliefs are glorifying God, I think you're good! (Even if others don't agree with you)

 

[Property Of God]

I totally agree with the OP, lately there has been tons of debates and arguments here, I joined TJ 5 years ago in 2007, it wasn't like this so I'm not sure what exactly happened. The non-Christians used to come here and try to learn about Jesus, not attack Jesus, and Christians here were more like Christ-followers, not bullies. it's really sad.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Hi,
I have been reading and talking with people about certain topics discussed here on TJ and it has upset that people refuse to "come all the way" and explain and prove their views from scripture in a way you could agree with them in the light of the bible. Unfortunately this is not often so. Many people seem to be just interested in showing their view about a topic and I think this is ok but when they want to argue without waterproof scripture evidence. it really upsets me.


Sometimes I ask people how do they know this is like they say and there is never no answer and always when I ask for evidence the people leave just so they can come back with their view thats not yet disproven.

Whats up with this?

Why do people claim things true when challanged they cannot prove it all the way? and rather leave their view partially a mystery even to them self and yet preach it again!

Jari,I think that happens to you because your not easy to fool.
I read many of your posts and you ask intelligent articulate questions.

When people can't back up there beliefs they get frustrated and try to blunt your question and then divert the subject then if that does not work they may demean,insult, insinuate and perhaps even accuse because they don't have an answer.

 

[rizen1]

I'm surprised it works at all.There will be clutter, diversions and divisions but where else can you get feedback like this from your views or questions?
In a denomination there will be little dissent over cloudy doctrines, couched opinions or baited questions.

It is an awesome training field because we are supposed to go out and be able to witness to non believers.So if I can't make a believer see my point I can pretty much guess that it would only get through to a very small portion of unbelievers.

20 years ago we had no way to actually discuss the differences and similarities between denominations because we had to pick a denomination and put up with it's doctrines out of convenience.

In rural America there may be only 1 or 2 denominations within 20 miles of where you happen to be born and raised.This meant that there was no opportunity to even know what questions you should be asking your pastor because you were to busy trying to catch up with what he (supposedly) knew.
Since we were busy working(a job) to pay pastor(10%) to misinform us, we could never catch up to what he knew.
Any studies we did on our own that did not match our denominational beliefs had to be held and cherished secretly,lest we be thrown out of the congregation.

The internet has only really been utilized in the last 12 years so I am amazed that a multi-denominational forum works as well as it does.To be able to search multiple translations and do etymology and history studies was a full time job 20 years ago.So in the last 10 years I have been able to correct my own beliefs for the first time.

Sometimes stubborn or annoying posters teach me things about how to approach different types of people that I will encounter among unbelievers in my walk.

I believe this response sums it all up. But we must be careful when defining who we deem stubborn or annoying. Sometimes it's pride and us not feeling heard, not getting the last word causes the other person in our eyes to be stubborn or annoying. And we use this to buff up our pride even more using those labels against the person. This changes the way you respond to the person and changes the tone and atmosphere. At this point you no longer have respect for the other person, you make yourself a victim saying they are being rude to you and your responses become blunt and theirs too.

Those who suffer with pride will butt heads with those who have issues with pride because they will never listen,agree to disagree or walk away from fruitless conversation. The problem is not the quote and quote stubborn and annoying..the problem is the so called righteous Christians not knowing what it means to be humble. The best teacher is a humble one, who does not think highly of themselves and know in this journey there's always something new to learn, something old to correct.

Gossip is also a problem. When people talk amongst themselves about other members they do not know. Lets be real someone asking a few question we don't understand do not give us the authority to know their heart. Therefore you must ask yourself how many broken christians did you destroy because they said something different beyond your doctrine. All you saw was their unbelief to your opinions and never once wondered about their heart, life, health and salvation. I see people leave this site because they ( the stubborn and annoying ) felt picked on, felt ganged up on and not embraced.

Again as I said before this is a non denomination site, a home for those seeking fellowship. The problem is Pride and people not being humble.

Property Of God I totally agree with the OP, lately there has been tons of debates and arguments here, I joined TJ 5 years ago in 2007, it wasn't like this so I'm not sure what exactly happened. The non-Christians used to come here and try to learn about Jesus, not attack Jesus, and Christians here were more like Christ-followers, not bullies. it's really sad.

I remember those sweet days. We would close threads if there was a slight hint of debate. I'll talk to the other moderators about it, and when we start closing threads the prideful ones will immediately start a thread about threads being closed because they didn't get the last word or prove their point. Sister do you remember those heated debates over women wearing pants, women preaching, bible versions, once save always saved, speaking in tongues, king james being the only authority, baptist church being the best, war of the denominations, keeping the sabbath. Those were some raw conversation. And those very threads filled with different opinions helped shaped my belief. Sometimes it takes someone else asking a question for us to learn. When people come on this site with a mindset to learn and grow the conversations would change, but unfortunately every one wants to be a teacher.

Paganmystic, Tcah, cody ,mounty ..Br.Bear those were the golden days. Things didn't change it's the same topics..so It's fair to say we changed.