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Unless you repent

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by B-A-C, Nov 29, 2017.

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  1. Luke 13:1; Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
    Luke 13:2; And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?
    Luke 13:3; "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
    Luke 13:4; "Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?
    Luke 13:5 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

    This is quite a compelling passage for several reasons.

    First who were these Galileans "whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices" ?
    I could find no other scriptures that seems to explain this. At the very least it seems some Galileans were
    still performing sacrifices. Because they were performing these sacrifices, it seems they suffered some bad fate.

    Jesus says... do you think those Galileans were any worse than other Galileans? Hmmm.. what happens to these Galileans? What was their fate? Maybe a clue is in the next verse. Unless you repent.. you will likewise
    (also) perish. It seems these Galileans who were sacrificing perished. That must have been their fate.

    Who killed them? Perhaps it was Pilate.... "who mixed their blood" with their sacrifices.

    There are some churches and Christians who teach that repentance is not required for salvation.
    Some preach that we are saved by grace alone, and nothing is required at all on our part.
    Some have even gone as far as to say... Jesus never preached repentance.... Hmmm.

    Well He did in the verses above.

    What is repentance? Even this is not agreed on by everyone. Some say it is simply "thinking differently"
    or "hating sin". But I personally would disagree. At some point, we actually have to stop doing some sins.

    Jesus makes reference to a "tower of Siloam" that fell upon some people... they "perished" because of this.
    Again... I could find no other scripture about this tower of Siloam.

    But the bottom line here is... Jesus says unless we repent... we will also perish.

    Perish.. die... Hmmm... aren't we all going to die someday anyway?
    Maybe Jesus meant die in another way, not just physical death.
     
    Br. Bear likes this.
  2. I was in a group called "basic theology" and had to leave this group. They teach NO you do not have to repent to be saved. They also teach no change is needed to be saved.
    Turning to Jesus and stop doing something all require a change mind.

    My Preacher says repentance is stop doing something, he says this all the time.

    What is repentance and is it necessary for salvation?
    In the Bible, the word repent means “to change one’s mind.” The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions (Luke 3:8-14; Acts 3:19). Acts 26:20 declares, “I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.” The full biblical definition of repentance is a change of mind that results in a change of action.

    another thing I think a lot of people get mixed up and think confession is repentance, when I was a catholic I thought this
     
  3. I did a little digging and found this in Adam Clarke's commentary:

    "Whose blood Pilate had mingled — This piece of history is not recorded (as far as I can find) by Josephus: however, he states that the Galileans were the most seditious people in the land: they belonged properly to Herod’s jurisdiction; but, as they kept the great feasts at Jerusalem, they probably, by their tumultuous behavior at some one of them, gave Pilate, who was a mortal enemy to Herod, a pretext to fall upon and slay many of them; and thus, perhaps, sacrifice the people to the resentment he had against the prince. Archelaus is represented by Josephus as sending his soldiers into the temple, and slaying 3000 men while they were employed in offering sacrifices."

    And from Guzik's commentary:

    "The Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices: We don’t have a record in secular history about the specific incident mentioned here. But there is a similar incident before the ministry of Jesus, Pilate wanted to build an aqueduct from the Pools of Solomon to the city of Jerusalem. To pay for it, he demanded money from the temple treasury, money that had been dedicated to God — and this outraged the people. When the Jews sent a delegation to beg for their money back, Pilate sent into the crowd soldiers dressed as common people, and at a certain signal they took out daggers and attacked the people asking for the money.

    This doesn’t seem to be the same incident mentioned here, but it shows how completely consistent it was with the character of Pilate to slaughter some Galilean Jews on their way to sacrifice to the Lord in Jerusalem."

    These are secondhand comments taken from another website. I don't know the original.

    Who were the Galileans whose blood Pilate mingled with their sacrifices?
     
    B-A-C likes this.
  4. For sure, a spiritual death resulting in occupying Hell!
     
  5. Dave, what you experienced in that group is actually very wide-spread. I became aware of this at least 15 years ago, and I have heard it said many times. Many are teaching that we do not have to repent and that we do not have to obey God and that God is pleased with us no matter what we do. They say that "repent" merely means to have a change of mind, and that change of mind takes place when they believe in Jesus but it has nothing to do with leaving their lives of sin behind them to follow our Lord in obedience. I had preachers and at least one preacher's wife tell me very strongly that we do not have to repent in the sense of turning from our sins and we don't have to obey our Lord. They are diluting the gospel to make it more appealing to the world so that the world will want to come to their churches. And, they have reduced "belief" in Jesus to a mere acknowledgment of his existence and a mere acceptance of what he did for us on the cross, but with no heart-change, i.e. no "born again" required. They are giving people a false hope of security with their lies, and many people are buying into their lies hook, line and sinker. So, this is why we need to be telling people the truth of what God's Word teaches.
     
    amadeus2 and Dave M like this.
  6. HI Sue

    Yes that's about what they were telling me, there main thing they kept repeating was we are all sinners we cant stop sinning therefore how can we change, I talked to them until I was blue in the mouth about being changed and not living in sin and they would not have it, they presented themselves as experts of theology and it was there way only. and at first they seemed extremely smart to me, but one things always stood out to me they never seemed loving. With out love you have nothing. And soon I learned the truth and stood up to them and left.
     
    Sue J Love likes this.
  7. Sometimes we have to walk away.
     
    amadeus2 and Dave M like this.
    • I confess to God all the time, no Catholicism required. You can go into a booth and confess to MAN all you want. I think God makes it clear to me, if you do this and leave out one confession , then you are guilty as charged.
    • Repentance is necessary but it comes in the form of Changing your conscience toward God.
    • The day that you are " Born Again" you changed your feeling toward....1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. BTW, I think you can have this change in or out of the water.
    • When you first come to God, quoting all your sins is impossible...there are too many and you probably have forgotten a few. After being Born Again, it is still impossible, though you now hate sin, it is impossible to recall all of them.
    • True REPENTANCE is this change in conscience toward God....before being saved , I could care less about God, Now I do and posses a repentant heart...Not that I can totally know when I have sin but I don't sin willfully and, knowing Jesus paid the price for , now and in the future: Romans 8:1
     
    Dave M likes this.
  8. @Dave M gave the definition of ''repentance'' as "a change of mind that results in a change of action." That's good, and in the sense of salvation, "to turn from sin, to God'' can be added to it to kinda clarify the 180 degree turnabout.

    @Born Again 2004, I agree with your post #8 almost completely. Scripturally, we aren't the ones who change our conscience toward God. We don't have that power; it comes from the Holy Spirit.

    Just my .02 cents.......
     
    Sue J Love and Born Again 2004 like this.
  9. That's pretty good for just $.02!!!
     
  10. LOL! Thanks, brother. I gave you a discount because you're in the U.S.. It would've been .05 cents if you were in Canada because we don't have pennies up here anymore. :)
     
    Sent from a mobile device
    amadeus2 and Sue J Love like this.
  11. Now that you "care about God", why would you do anything that offends Him?
    All sin is willful. (James 1:14-15)
     
  12. the second greatest commandment Jesus gave was Mark 12:31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

    I am pretty sure every single one of us fail to keep this commandment every day,
     
  13. I do care but I also know that I am human and not perfected yet! Why else would St. Paul say what he said, in Romans 8:1, unless it where not for sin. I don't desire to but, I do offend him but because of Jesus in me, he does not count my sins against me. We are human / physical and God is Holy / spirit and we do not have a complete concept of what sin really is...oh, of course we all know the " Nasty Five" or the "Dirty Dozen" . I will, in all respect to you, say with confidence, you sin at times and don't even know it. I like to explain it this way, sin is anything that God is not!
     
    Dave M likes this.
  14. yeap the flesh is cursed with sin it our very nature as long as we are in the flesh we are sinners.

    Romans 8:8
    Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

    Galatians 5:16
    But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

    Romans 8:6
    For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

    Romans 6:16
    Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
     
  15. I have some good news for you.
    God has made a way to kill the old man, and to be reborn of His seed...which cannot bear evil fruit.
    The reborn do love their neighbor as themselves all the time.
     
  16. So every time you see a homeless person you take him home and feed him and shower him??
     
  17. I have some good news for you too!
    You can now crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts...as per Gal 5:24.
    You don't have to be "imperfect", (in God's eyes), anymore.
    You won't be judged for bad knees or mathematical disability., but for the works done in your body...which after conversion is Christ's body and not your own.

    It is our choice whether or not we walk in the Spirit or in the flesh.
    We can't walk in both.
    Those in Christ Jesus don't walk in the flesh.

    In essence, you just said you sin with Jesus in you.
    That is not possible, as there is no sin in Jesus.
    All sin is "known", as it requires temptation, lust, enticement, and conception. (James 1:14-15)
    Hard to go through all those steps unwittingly, don't you think?
    In fact, Paul writes..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." in 1 Cor 10:13.
    Look for the escapes God provides!
     
  18. No, as not all of them desire to be fed or washed.
    Those I can reach, however, are treated like brothers.
     
  19. Greetings,

    here is another commentary on the verses which also carries on the the parable that Jesus told immediately after telling them that unless they repent....

    Luke 13 William Kelly Major Works Commentary

    Thank you for sharing,

    Bless you ....><>
     

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