Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Truth, Measure of truth, and the Metrologist

xDICEx

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
302
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (Jn.8:44)

I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. (1Jn.2:21)

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1Jn.2:27)


These are interesting passages. And, also: “that no lie is of the truth” is a very potent proposition. Let it be granted: that lie is not the truth and that truth is not the lie, and the exclusive natures of the two are established. The father of lies is identified in Jn.8:44; and we should put forth the proposition that Jesus Christ the Son of God in his person is the Truth.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (Jn.14:6)

As man created in the image of a righteous God, we were righteously designed to walk, think, and live in the truth: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God. This, requirement of man, our savior has performed for us, on our behalf, and in our place so that the required righteousness might be imputed unto us who have believed in Jesus Christ the Son of God for righteousness apart from the works of the law.

When Christ was tested of the Devil, as we are as well, he answered with the Scripture. Even when the Devil used the Scripture in his temptations, Christ’s answer shows that what truth was in the quotation that the Devil used had not been correctly understood by him, and that the use the Devil suggested for it was lie and not the truth.

Observe for yourself in Matthew 4:
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. 3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, 6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.


As above the Devil is the father of lies, yet also unregenerate men are reckoned up as his offspring (Jn.8:44). Humanism as a philosophical system is nothing other than mankind speaking of his own like his father before him. Trouble is, even then man is not unique, nor the ultimate source of the “lie value” in his words or thoughts. God did not create a humanistic man, but he created a dependent theistic image man. Image man has merely accepted the lie in place of the truth for the starting point of his thinking. His thinking reflects the lie of his father, not as he supposes the originality of his assumed autonomous being. Man then is not the measure of all things in and of himself. Yet man, if he begins with truth, receiving truth as his standard of measure, is meant to measure or test all things else—This makes man a different kind of creature than is assumed under the philosophy of humanism. (metrologist-man, measuring-man, not originating-man, autonomous-man)

The universe, including the universe of theoretical reason, which man lives in, is radically divided between truth and lie. And since man is not the originator of truth as humanism assumes or the lie as scripture testifies, but is rather a presupposing tester of truths, the most important issue in discerning the truth is a set of absolute propositions that abide outside of man-in-and-of-himself and then also that, being from God are not a lie. This alone is the presupposition framework creature-man can begin to think, test, and reason safely from and within. This absolute set of propositions is the role of divine authoritative testimony. Divine truth, soverignly provided transcendent truth, immune from the taint of the lie, reliable in all its parts as in its whole, perspicuous, and divinely transmitted to man is the Bible. As it has come by the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit (2 Tim.3:16), so it is spiritually understood by the illumination agency of the same Person of the trinity (1 Cor.2:6-16). By this agency we can have the mind of Christ, as scripture speaks, and likewise judge all things by the Bible. We are to bring every thought into the captivity of Christ, our measure of all things, revealed unto us in the Holy Scripture which is the divine testimony concerning Him.

The reason biblically foreign authorities (humanistic theologies, philosophies, or sciences) do not see the Bible proclaiming the proposition of the primacy of Scripture is because their humanistic root presuppositions misconstrue the passages and propositions which the bible teaches that authority in. This is not unlike the Devil misusing scripture with Christ. It remains forever then, as the Scripture has spoken, “To the law and the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them(Is.8:20).”

As Christ in the wilderness, so are we in this age; and the temptations that are life and death, truth and lie, are everywhere upon us (on the streets, in the media, in schools). We can only overcome in our evil day as He did before us in that evil day: by the reliance upon wholly and fully inspired Scripture. Like the Bereans in acts, the true nobility of man resides in this; so does our strength and salvation.

To God be the glory, amen. DGB
 
Very good! (except for all the big words) jk!

I have said it before, and some have probably been inclined to stone me for it, but the Word of God in the hands of an unregenerate man does him more harm than good.

Spiritual discernment is lacking in Christiandom, because so many remain unregenerate, thus they remain wise in their own conceit, not accepting that unless they have received the Spirit of Truth, they will never be able to discern truth from lies, for another spirit is at work in them, deceiving them.



To God be the glory, amen!



Divine truth, soverignly provided transcendent truth, immune from the taint of the lie, reliable in all its parts as in its whole, perspicuous, and divinely transmitted to man is the Bible. As it has come by the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit (2 Tim.3:16), so it is spiritually understood by the illumination agency of the same Person of the trinity (1 Cor.2:6-16).
 
Thank you Coconut, I am trying to find vocabulary that can be readily understood. I guess I struggle at it. Your words encourage me to try harder, thank you. I have always liked the simple words of CH Spurgon, "The word of God is like a lion; no one defends a lion; you just turn him loose."

DGB
 
Because of resent discussion in forums, blogs, and chat: I thought it might be well to revive this post. Originally, the audience I meant to address was the general reader, and I hoped only to provoke a fresh consideration of what other Christian thinkers have referred to as the "Bible principal" or the principal of revelation. The Bible teaching the nature of a created thinking man existing in a world of very radically divided possibilities of thought, (I used: theoretical thought: to include all possible subjects, categories, and species of human thought and knowledge), this, I wanted to demonstrate from the explicit passages I sited. Truth and lie are divided like light and darkness all the way through the bible from Eve in the garden to Rev. 22:15 "For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." The point I hoped to be taken hold of by the reader was that all human thinking is not neutral (unbiased, if you wish), and that every thought proceeds on assumptions (presuppositions, if you wish), givens that we may or may not agree to, (and that are either of the lie or of the truth). There is no thought that is expressed by any man that does not have a number of givens in its presupposition set. Therefor, I chose the analogy of the "Metrologist", a scientist of measures using standards, to embody that concept. It seemed to comport with the "Measure of truth", the standard which the Bible as divine revelation is to thinking Man; and also then, with Christ who is the "Truth", the reality of the standard measure, and the first principal of the human measure-or. This proposition of man as "Metrologist Man" is only analogous to the Bible's revelation as man made in the image of God as far as man's rationality goes. Light, which we must realize reflects, becomes important in John's prologue where he says, "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." It is my contention that a lot of God's light shinning in the darkness are the borrowed presuppositions that the denier (or doubter) of that light is using in his moral assessments and rational constructions. Thus the important point: lies do not comport with the truth, nor truths with the lie. What that amounts to is: that all systems of thought can be rationally analyzed and critiqued by Bible truths and that the proponents of these mixed (i.e. having lie as well truth) systems can be shown the non-comport-ability of their expressed propositions and their explicit or implicit presuppositions. You can with insight and effort demonstrate to them "they have no excuse", Rom.1:20 "so that they are without excuse:'"

Consider this text from 2 Cor.10:5, "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" this phrase embodies the method of metrologist man. The Bible is not just our personal light as contending-for-the truth Christians, but it is also the only light of the opponents of the light. Therefor all Christians must strive to show how the denying disputant uses the very assumptions which only the truth makes non-arbitrary and rational to rail against the truth. Were the disputant to be thoroughly consistent to his chosen antithesis to the truth, he would not be able to say anything at all. Let any disputant, if willing to try, give a non-arbitrary reason why he would even accept the laws of logic to have any validity to himself or his audience. I would certainly expect Paul to be able to do that; it appears that he expected it of his opponents in the context of the passage sited above, as well of the persons he was advising there. In this way it is our duty to compare every thought with scripture, like the Bereans, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Acts 17:11). This is the true source of human nobility: Is.8:20 "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." Some times this is extremely hard work to do: I am just an ordinary believer. But if it is true work at all, it must be worth it.
 
Back
Top