True versus false Believers

[james1523]

In the Bible there is no such thing as true or false believers. If you believe in Christ you are true, and if you don't believe in Him you are false. There is no such thing as a person who believes but is not truly a believer because of... <insert reason="" here="">. There maybe many false professors of Christ, but there are no false believers. To be a false believer is to say they don't believe. So why call them a believer at all?

 

[Dovegiven]

I let folks embrace whatever degree of believing/disbelieving they choose, but will preach and teach the Bible, in particular the New Covenant of Christ in full. So I offend some people that hear me speak. I know many people who wouldn't miss a time of their church opening the door for an event, but they persist in blotting out Bible facts such as the recent creation, the original sin which only makes sense for a literal belief in Genesis, the worldwide flood, hell and eternal torment, the virgin birth, the literal existence of a historical, real Jesus, the resurrection, miracles, tongues, demons, a Devil, leaving little to believe. There will be more shouting tonight while they watch the Super Bowl game and devilish commercials, unaware of what wholesome messages (family/real man ads) the NFL has excluded, shouting more in one night than ever before in the presence of God in a worship experience. I stated this morning that though they know in the years past I wagered on SB games among them, I would not watch it now over moral objections, and am keeping my word, though this is costing me whatever remnants of carnal "friendships" I had. I am praying they will be convinced of their error tonight as they watch ungodliness pour from their tv screens, and repent for lusting for maximum flesh display. I have skipped the heavily planned tailgate party there, and the huge rented HD screens.needing some serious donations to pay for. I'm out of there because I doubt Jesus would be screaming over any part of it, or that Heaven is having a big SB party. Sometimes it is time to take an unpopular stand. So I'm here tonight.

Whole denominations now gather against many plainly declared Bible doctrines, yet are tolerated by many others believing some other mixture of Bible facts as a "brand" of Christian, those others are their own "brand".
The only way to be a believer, "in Christ", is to believe the what the Lord wants us to stand on, rightly dividing/handling/dissecting the scriptures, scripture interpreting scripture. It requires serious study for life, not bent by every wind of doctrine that comes along.

My take on your OP is that perhaps a majority of people thinking themselves sons of God, commend each other for willingness to agree to the parts that fit today's humanistic society, while having no idea what the "society" of the Kingdom of Heaven expects of it's citizens. So many are partial believers, accepting some fundamentals of the faith, rejecting what they fear.

I have mercy on them, like some saints did for me. It turned out the apostles were all in that same boat, believing what they could agree was good, rejecting the painful things. I think the Lord still has that same compassion, giving them more years to believe it all.

 

[kjw47]

In the Bible there is no such thing as true or false believers. If you believe in Christ you are true, and if you don't believe in Him you are false. There is no such thing as a person who believes but is not truly a believer because of... <insert reason="" here="">. There maybe many false professors of Christ, but there are no false believers. To be a false believer is to say they don't believe. So why call them a believer at all?</insert>

It takes much more than believing by a mortal. That is a partial truth that one will be saved if they believe--there is a whole bible, not just one line. many truths added together make up a single reality.

 

[B-A-C]

I agree...

Mormons,Jehovah's witnesses, Roman Catholics, Joel Osteen, they all will say they believe in Jesus. (although perhaps a different version of Jesus)

Many many other people will say they believe in Jesus but yet keep on living like they lived before and keep on doing the things they did before.
Even if you press them.. was Jesus the Son of God? Was He sinless? Did He die for your sins? Did He rise again?
They will say they believe those things. Some may even quit (drinking, drugging, womanizing.. fill in the blank) for a while, but then go back to it.
The OSAS crowd will say they were never saved in the first place, but if that's true, what separates them from true believers?

What really makes a "true believer"?

 

[kjw47]

I agree...

Mormons,Jehovah's witnesses, Roman Catholics, Joel Osteen, they all will say they believe in Jesus. (although perhaps a different version of Jesus)

Many many other people will say they believe in Jesus but yet keep on living like they lived before and keep on doing the things they did before.
Even if you press them.. was Jesus the Son of God? Was He sinless? Did He die for your sins? Did He rise again?
They will say they believe those things. Some may even quit (drinking, drugging, womanizing.. fill in the blank) for a while, but then go back to it.
The OSAS crowd will say they were never saved in the first place, but if that's true, what separates them from true believers?


What really makes a "true believer"?

A true believer lives to do Gods will 24/7-365-- this is how that gets accomplished--Matt 16:24--they disown themselves to be a true follower of Jesus.--- Gods will = This is my son the beloved, in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM-- this entails, learning every truth he taught and applying every truth he taught, no matter what men, govt, or family thinks about it. And an ultra important truth Jesus taught is this---Man does not live by bread alone, but by every( ot-nt) utterance from God----- takes a lot of hard study, over and over.

 

[B-A-C]

It's a good answer, and I agree, but do any of us really obey 24/7 365? Do any of us really conquer the flesh 100% until death?

 

[mercy777]

It's an oxymoron! agreed!

 

[kjw47]

It's a good answer, and I agree, but do any of us really obey 24/7 365? Do any of us really conquer the flesh 100% until death?

We all sin in some way or another--but these, one must never do--1Cor 6:9-11--Gal 5:19-21---because both spots teach--will not enter Gods kingdom. these are obviously very gross sins in Gods eyes-- as well one needs balance in their life too--not to sin, but to have enjoyment.
One must learn what God dislikes--- in order not to fall into satan' snares

 

[Dovegiven]

It's a good answer, and I agree, but do any of us really obey 24/7 365? Do any of us really conquer the flesh 100% until death?

The scriptures have convinced me that the New Testament epistles define with great detail what "believing" upon Jesus really involves, as well as "calling" upon God in Jesus' name really means. I agree it is far beyond merely uttering certain words, like a chant or memorized prayer.
The apostles knew exactly what Jesus intended, but the divisions in the Church have diluted the understandings. The apostles worked hard to straighten out the far-flung churches, but today we don't have such apostles doing that well enough even with satellites reaching the whole world. Meanwhile we have the "Church" defined as tolerating what God labelled as "abomination", calling what is evil to be good, good to be evil, being almost inseparable from the world except by what building they might occasionally visit on a Sunday. That has been diluted further by entertaining tolerance of Judaizers demanding return to the old covenant in order to qualify the new covenant, and more currently the influences of various groups with acronyms sporting variants of "islamochristian".

I believe a true believer simply takes the New Testament literally, does it literally, unless the scripture clearly indicates something other than literal understanding and action. They are likely called "fundamentalist Christian", which would not have offended our Lord Jesus.

 

[Chad]

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Matthew 7

A Tree and Its Fruit

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

 

[Dovegiven]

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Matthew 7

A Tree and Its Fruit

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

Amen. Unfortunately it seems to be currently "proper" not to inspect the fruit. I was selecting apples in the market, taking the ones without fingernail marks or significant bruises. A woman behind me chided me for picking the lot over, scooping up a random bag full. That translates to many "believers" around me that are offended over "judging" anyone or anything over the "fruit", even though familiar with the biblical application. So it is many accept whatever falls into their hands.

 

[kjw47]

It's a good answer, and I agree, but do any of us really obey 24/7 365? Do any of us really conquer the flesh 100% until death?

We fall short in little sins, we never do these--1Cor 6:9-11 Galations 5:19-21-- both spots teach--will not enter Gods kingdom if one does these. one never partakes off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21), the teachers warn the flock of its ingredients. The biggest fall of mankind = sex.--David fell but repented by stopping fornicating--Solomon fell for foreign wives and served their gods--- it seems every time the Israelites ( kings and followers)fell was to be with foreign women, and served their gods. Its the tongue that is the hardest thing to control, if one beats the rest.
The 4 major entertainments--music, movies, tv, video games-- violence, immoral sex, the occult, and now adding homosexuality as the norm--God hates all 4 of those things--all products of the table of demons--yet 99% of the teachers fail to warn of ones support of these things.
Many traditions in the celebrations straight off the table of demons--every encyclopedia warns that pagan practices have been added--like the next one--valentines day--cupid a real life false god that was worshipped for centuries was added to it by the--WORLD--the world Jesus taught to be no part of--yet from generation to generation, satan gets parents to hand down to their own children practices off the table of demons by using love, sharing whatever it takes to deceive( 2Cor 11:12-15) by transforming into an angel of light.

 

[kjw47]

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Matthew 7

A Tree and Its Fruit

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

We do all sin--we have all done gross sins in our past hopefully, and not in the present
1John 3--is a mirror for all to peer into--it teaches who are the children of God and who are the children of the devil---it teaches--- its impossible for a child of God to practice even 1 sin.( I believe this is speaking about the gross sins that Gods word teaches--will not enter his kingdom( 1Cor 6:9-11--Galations 5:19-21( I am confident, false god worship, partaking off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) there are probably others as well.
we Find at 1Cor 10:21---- God teaches--one cannot partake of both tables--but many are trying--Jesus warned the Laodecians as well--Per-se--if one is sitting on the fence( partaking of both tables) he will vomit them out.
the impossibility for a mortal in a sinful state of being is controlling the tongue at all times--we all fail there.
It also teaches at 1John 3: 10-12-- no slaughtering of one another is allowed. in the rev war, civil war, ww1,ww2--the supposed brothers in Christ stood on both sides slaughtering one another, for men like stalin and Hitler, this was allowed--the clergy prayed to the same god on both sides( seems like a huge hipocrosy to do that)--I am 100% confident the brothers in Christ would never do that, and Jesus would not condone that in front of the eyes of all creation for an iota of a second. the spirit of the antichrist is what causes fear, hate, calamity,division. The spirit of Jesus is love,unity, and peace at all times.

 

[B-A-C]

We do all sin--we have all done gross sins in our past hopefully, and not in the present
1John 3--is a mirror for all to peer into--it teaches who are the children of God and who are the children of the devil---it teaches--- its impossible for a child of God to practice even 1 sin.( I believe this is speaking about the gross sins that Gods word teaches--will not enter his kingdom

The key to 1 Jn 3:9-10; is the word "practice". (NASB)
1 Jn 3:9; No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Jn 3:10; By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Making a mistake every once in a while is quite different from willfully "practicing" sin.

-I am 100% confident the brothers in Christ would never do that, and Jesus would not condone that in front of the eyes of all creation for an iota of a second. the spirit of the antichrist is what causes fear, hate, calamity,division. The spirit of Jesus is love,unity, and peace at all times.

Yet Jesus drove the money lenders from the temple with a scourge (whip) and turned over their tables and called them thieves.
He called the Pharisees a brood of vipers and sons of hell.

Rev 19:11; And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
Rev 19:12; His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.
Rev 19:13; He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14; And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
Rev 19:15; From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
Rev 19:16; And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

Even the prince of peace bears a sword and strikes down the nations and wages war. Even Jesus "treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God".

Also keep in mind God commanded the Israelite's to go to war over 16 times in the Old Testament.
Jesus is not peace at any cost. Jesus is righteous and Holy at any cost. (even His own life).

 

[kjw47]

The key to 1 Jn 3:9-10; is the word "practice". (NASB)
1 Jn 3:9; No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Jn 3:10; By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Making a mistake every once in a while is quite different from willfully "practicing" sin.



Yet Jesus drove the money lenders from the temple with a scourge (whip) and turned over their tables and called them thieves.
He called the Pharisees a brood of vipers and sons of hell.

Rev 19:11; And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
Rev 19:12; His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.
Rev 19:13; He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14; And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
Rev 19:15; From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
Rev 19:16; And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

Even the prince of peace bears a sword and strikes down the nations and wages war. Even Jesus "treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God".

Also keep in mind God commanded the Israelite's to go to war over 16 times in the Old Testament.
Jesus is not peace at any cost. Jesus is righteous and Holy at any cost. (even His own life).

The white horse--represents--righteous war-- yes Jesus got wrathful about the things of his Father.
Rev 19:19 and Rev 16) shows--every king ( govt)of the earth will be mislead to stand in opposition to Jesus at Har-mageddon. Rev 16 teaches--with 3 inspired expressions( 3 -9/11 type inspired expressions grabbing hold of mortal hearts) will mislead--EVERY--kingdom( govt, armies, supporters) to stand in opposition to Gods king---for--patriotism. we all saw what occurred at 9/11--this will be 3 times harder on the mortal heart to resist.

The two paths of mortal hearts when evil is given

The spirit of Jesus= Love, Peace, unity--return evil for evil to no one--turn the other cheek, if your enemy is hungry--feed him--if thirsty--give him a drink-- return love for evil--forgive them Father, they know not what they do--vengeance is mine said the Lord.

spirit of antichrist = hate, calamity, division-- fill your heart with fear--then hatred, then return evil and kill your enemy, steal the vengeance for self.

Where was our heart lead at 9/11? it will be 3 times harder at rev 16 and rev 19.

 

[RJ]

In the Bible there is no such thing as true or false believers. If you believe in Christ you are true, and if you don't believe in Him you are false. There is no such thing as a person who believes but is not truly a believer because of... <insert reason="" here="">. There maybe many false professors of Christ, but there are no false believers. To be a false believer is to say they don't believe. So why call them a believer at all?

How about those who believe and those who don't believe?