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Tony Blair.

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Ford said:
The Prime Minister claims to be a christian, how seriously can this be taken?
I don't know anything, really about him.
God does give us the right to "inspect fruit". although we are cautioned about judging.
We can se what kind of "Fruit" a person grows... is it good fruit or bad fruit... Check Galations Chapter 5.

Kate
 
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Ford said:
The Prime Minister claims to be a christian, how seriously can this be taken?
I know very little about your prime minister because I know little of the domestic politics of the United Kingdom. I do know, and appreciate, his staunch support of President Bush and the War on Terror, which brings up a point.

I believe that many Christians peg their belief of Mr. Blair and Mr. Bush's claims to be Christians on whether or not those men agree with them on public issues the majority of the time.

Many Christians in the United States are lambasting our President because he says he is pro-life and yet he has not nominated an openly pro-life candidate to fill the open seat on our Supreme Court.

They forget that they harangued for years against liberal judges making law from the bench. Now Mr. Bush is nominating a conservative who is not an ideologue, and they don't like that, either. His goal, I believe, is to return the role of making law to the legislature period. And that's as it should be. The abortion issue should be attacked in our legislatures.

Be that as it may, the litmus test for these men's claims to be Christian will be how their records appear as we examine them through the lens of history, when their fruit is full grown. Their fruit has not yet ripened.
 
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Tony Blaire cannot be a Christian. The New World Order is based in London and Brussels, can you honestly see them having a Christian (A born again christian)? Of course not, this would be rediculous as they would be cutting themselves out of the picture. Also, dont by into this whole facade that Tony Blaire (or any leader in the commonwealth) is really taking charge. NWO policies are being enforced. Dont you think that it's strange that every leader who has rejected NWO policies has been assasinated or killed randomly in freak accidents? JFK was such a person. As we are in the end times it is therefore clear that all shakers and movers in this world are NWO property...if they are still living. They have a tight grip on the elite in this world and we just have to accept that. As born again christians we have to stand in faith and together.
 
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When I wrote my last reply. It was just a gut reaction. I think Tony Blair has great responsibilities and many have witnessed him trying to do the right thing. I believe he is a believer and carries great responsibility but as a human fails frequently like we all do.
 
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We should not judge him. He has a great care to bear and while we may disagree with his policies it is not for us to judge his faith or doubt his Christianity. May God guide him and other world leaders to strive for peace and justice.Amen.
 
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I can't claim to know his heart. That is for one, and I am not he, although it could be said that he is I am. :wink:
 
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How does he deal with the fact that he is, along with George Bush responsible, directly or indirectly, for the deaths of thousand of people in Iraq?
 
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That's actually a question that's easy to answer, Ford... at least, for me... I'd say it's beacause they know from history that freedom and democracy come at a heavy price. Call it "initial costs". The new Iraq Constitition has been approved, and more people in that population voted than ever before, with the lowest incidence of violence. This new democratic nation comes at a hefty price, yes, and these leaders feel the same way many of us do, that it's worth the lives of those who fought for that freedom in the long haul. If we didn't feel this way, America wouldn't exist and Europe would still be in the hands of the Third Reich. Soldiers choose to fight, and die, and country's leaders such as Saddam, who defied the United Nations for twelve long years of torture of his people, choose to put their countrymen at risk when they rattle sabres and cause war. And having all that thrown in your lap, as Tony Blair or George Bush, has got to be a real nightmare. I wouldn't want to be them for a billion dollars. If you've ever seen the huge mural of the WTC's burning while Saddam smokes a cigar and smiles, that sits in Baghdad, you might get more appreciation for why we are all fighting this War on Terror, if the flight of terrorists back into the region, and the beheadings, didn't impress you. But all in all, asking "Are they Christian?" of these leaders, fighting this evil, isn't the point, of course they are as much as anybody; but being Christian doesn't mean they can force their will upon the people of this land. Nor does it mean that "murder" is part and parcel of the "killing" in a time of war, remember that aspect; murder doesn't include self-defense. The people really choose, not just these individual men - because it's a "government" that chooses - not just Blair and Bush alone, and bringing things down to a personal level of judgement and hate is the folly of amatuers to politics, and something political parties use to get its members inflamed enough to protest against what they don't even understand fully. My brother: Politics is a very, very complicated issue and I welcome you to join us in political forums on the Internet, but I would think that Chad and the rest of TalkJesus wouldn't want to open up this can of worms any further, and please - somebody correct me if I'm out of place here - because it would spur furious debate inside this peaceful website that is here to bring glory to Jesus - not grapple with the wars of the world. Fighting the War on Terror is paramount to the entire world now, and if you don't understand that as the bombs are going off on planes, trains, and in automobiles, and that there are losses on both sides, and sin and error on all sides, because they are human - then you believe you can stand in higher judgement than even God Himself - and that is dangerous and perilous terrirtory, as well as inappropriate for this forum in my humble opinion. I caution you that the people you see responding to you here, in these posts, with temperance, forgiveness, moderation, and patience, are giving you the great clues as real role models in how to "be a Christian" yourself. To stop worrying about the splinters you see, and worry about our own planks? We do have the right to vote for these men, and that's a personal choice we make, not to be debated, nor is the true value or sincerity of their faith in the eyes of God is to be speculated, pondered, and gossiped over. Is it? (By the way, nobody ever said Bush was a true conservative. Just a little political point I thought I'd make there since you seem to think he is.)

God bless you and keep you safe in these times of great strife.

Mrs. Califlower
 
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Bush, America, and Iraq

Ms. Califlower, I am going to try and put a different twist on the Bush agenda and America. What did the Iraqi people, or Saddam Hussein, do to justify the invasion of there sovereign Nation? What did the sixty thousand dead Iraqi adults do to America? What did the Fifteen thousand dead Iraqi children do to America? What did the Two Hundred Thousand blind, crippled, burned, amputated, and maimed Iraqi people do to America? Absolutely NOTHING. What did the fifty thousand aboriginal "Indians" do to Americans? What was the justification for committing genocide toward a native people? What did the forty five million tender infants, do to deserve infanticide? Many being torn apart by special made crude weapons, designed just for "them". What did the African peoples do to justify being kidnapped by "Christians", made a slave, beaten, branded ( like cattle) raped, humiliated, and some five thousand lynched.? Are you aware that only one Nation (Australia) a tiny population, in comparison to the "Mighty America", has a violent crime rate compared to the U.S. Otherwise America gets the trophy for that one as well. While pondering these facts about the "great-America", back to Bush, and others. A recent list following American Presidents committed a felony crime or high moral crime: Lincoln ( used the slave issue to usurp the individual States rights. Ushering in a Federalist power base), Nixon orchestrated a felony burglary( and during his tenure, UN-armed college students are shot by the American military at Kent state. Oh, Nixon fires his appointed Attorney General for doing his job, investigating a crime ) , Vice President Agnew, resignes after he is caught lying on his tax return, Ford absolves Nixon, Reagon lied to Congress, Clinton lied to Congress ( and slaughtered 160 people in Waco Texas) , Bush lied to the world. They all have a common trait: none were held accountable! So, why is Saddam Hussein on trial? Husseins alleged crimes are pale, in comparison to Americans. And if American forces can kidnap and dispose Manuel Noriega, why not Hussein? Or "Christian" Pat Robertsons agenda would be to assassinate him. ( I'm curious, why did Bush not rebuke Robertson? After all, a rebuke is a Christian principle) Hmmmmmm, some thing smells fishy here, ER, oily. Why is it acceptable to commit crimes against people in the American way? If Bush is a "Christian, why did he not forgive Saddam Hussein? And Osama? If America is a "Christian" Nation, why did it scream for blood, after 9-11? Did not Jesus say to forgive, feed, and love your enemy? Is this how to promote "Christianity" Democracy, freedom, by using bombs, tanks, and other war devices? Then how can Osama be wrong? After all, he used the exact same technics. I am not picking you out, personally. This is addressed to all who feel that America has special privileges, over other human beings. You know, when I see the bumper stickers that say "God Bless America", I say, WHY? :love:
 
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We have had this issue here before at talk Jesus and this is end of it ... We are not to bash ANYONE...



Christians are not to spread hate.. or feed it.. and that is what it seems like in these posts.

The next post of hate will be deleted and the member banned .
 
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My humblest apologies if any of the facts or rhetoric that I have stated offended anyone here... I would never "hate" anyone. I don't believe in it and Jesus would never approve of it, He would tell me to pray; so I believe in forgiveness and praying hard for anyone who tresspasses against me. Or, my country. This is why I stated in my post that I felt these political issues shouldn't even be raised here, and perhaps this might be stated in the 10 commandments of TalkJesus.com - although it's very very hard to separate politics from religion, it seems to get very negative when the two are deliberately mixed together. And yes, I had a feeling, as a new member, that this probably has happened many times in the last years. So again, I apologize, and I will not respond to any new members who bring up political topics that are obviously dangerously controversial and lead to "debate" instead of celebrating the joy of the Lord or exploring our relationship with God in a solid, safe, learning atmosphere.

God bless you,
The California Lilly
 
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Ford said:
How does he deal with the fact that he is, along with George Bush responsible, directly or indirectly, for the deaths of thousand of people in Iraq?
Why are you asking us? Why not ask them directly if you care so much for two humans' opinions or feelings of what they do? How would YOU feel being in control of a country and trying your best? Simple task isn't it? This thread is useless to be honest.

We're here as a body of Christ to reach out to the lost, preach the Gospels. We're here to witness Truth (Scripture) to those in need.

Romans 12:5
so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.

1 Corinthians 12:12
The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
 
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This thread is closed. This is not a politcal forum. There is no room to point fingers at people that hold the heaviest burdens and responsiblities and share your opinions into such lives.
 
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